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On May 19 2010 03:17 Fishball wrote:
So do the players ever know which leader recruited them?
Do the leaders know what powers the players have when he/she recruited them?
Since enemy players can be recruited, that means a player can be "recruited" back and forth? If this is the case, is this game mainly a war among the 4 leaders and the rest are just chess pieces?
no
no
yes and ^_^
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On May 19 2010 03:49 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 03:17 Fishball wrote:
So do the players ever know which leader recruited them?
Do the leaders know what powers the players have when he/she recruited them?
Since enemy players can be recruited, that means a player can be "recruited" back and forth? If this is the case, is this game mainly a war among the 4 leaders and the rest are just chess pieces?
no no yes and ^_^
Do the players ever know which Faction recruited them? (Yes, according to previous page?)
Do the leaders know what character the player he recruited has?
What is the incentive for the players to help a certain faction leader? I mean player A can be playing for Wu the first day, then playing for Shu the second day. Also, if player A carries crucial information of his faction, and was then recruited to another faction... well, you know what I'm going at.
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On May 19 2010 02:31 Korynne wrote:
By the way, I think it is Trez first time playing mafia here. And in general I think it would be lame to choose a newcomer to lynch on the first day unless you really think they are mafia.
This is just from the community perspective, I think it would suck for someone to go oh sweet this mafia game sounds cool let's try it out, bam, dead the first night due to him being chosen as the arbitrary random first lynch.
I just don't think it would be nice. xD
Disclaimer: I am not playing this game, and I have no information outside of what is on this thread (i.e. I did not ask Caller for any additional clarifications on rules, or roles, etc.).
Well I did ask and he didn't give it to me 
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On May 19 2010 02:31 Korynne wrote:
By the way, I think it is Trez first time playing mafia here. And in general I think it would be lame to choose a newcomer to lynch on the first day unless you really think they are mafia.
This is just from the community perspective, I think it would suck for someone to go oh sweet this mafia game sounds cool let's try it out, bam, dead the first night due to him being chosen as the arbitrary random first lynch.
I just don't think it would be nice. xD
Disclaimer: I am not playing this game, and I have no information outside of what is on this thread (i.e. I did not ask Caller for any additional clarifications on rules, or roles, etc.).
Incorrect! Trez has played in at least 1 game on TL before (Mafia 4). The game was just really short and I don't remember if he did that much. Caller just made a typo with his name in the OP.
Oh yeah, same disclaimer as Korynne + I haven't read the thread beyond the last 2 pages so I REALLY have no idea what is going on.
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I'm agreeing with the idea of Yellow Turban lynch. Only problem I see with the current logic: It's highly likely that Caller, being Caller (<3) has played favorites and given out roles to people who he thinks are better players/will be more active. Since it's more likely that the veterans will be faction leaders, wouldn't it also be more likely that the Yellow Turban leader is, in fact, someone who WOULD be more active? Even more so considering everyone's saying "YTL must be a lurker, KILL THE LURKERS"...
Just a thought.
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BrownBear catchup, same challenge to you, provide one coherent argument for why a unaligned (as most of us are) townie ought to try to vote for a suspected yellow at this stage.
Otherwise there is no reason to do so and I would go back to the inactive//Abenson idea purely for reasons of game quality.
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On May 19 2010 04:21 BrownBear wrote:
I'm agreeing with the idea of Yellow Turban lynch. Only problem I see with the current logic: It's highly likely that Caller, being Caller (<3) has played favorites and given out roles to people who he thinks are better players/will be more active. Since it's more likely that the veterans will be faction leaders, wouldn't it also be more likely that the Yellow Turban leader is, in fact, someone who WOULD be more active? Even more so considering everyone's saying "YTL must be a lurker, KILL THE LURKERS"...
Just a thought.
Leaders early on are actually better in the hands of quiet players. Otherwise they got offed potentially way to early. Playing favourites to vets would be giving them decent power roles that aren't leaders. Reason for this is a vet is more likely able to play "sides" better when recruited a bunch of times to diff factions, whereas a newbier player wouldn't so making them faction leaders would be better for their ability (just need to hide who they are).
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On May 19 2010 04:23 XeliN wrote:
BrownBear catchup, same challenge to you, provide one coherent argument for why a unaligned (as most of us are) townie ought to try to vote for a suspected yellow at this stage.
Otherwise there is no reason to do so and I would go back to the inactive//Abenson idea purely for reasons of game quality.
The way I see it, every night, 3 people are recruited to the 3 main factions, and one is recruited to the Yellow Turbans. Naturally, there will be some overlap, occasionally two factions will try to recruit the same person and bounce, that kind of thing, but for the most part this will hold true.
There are 24 people in the game, meaning that the pool of recruitable people is 20. The YT leader has a 3 in 20 chance of screwing up and getting his entire faction killed if he picks completely randomly, which he will not do, so it's fairly safe to say that he is not going to recruit a faction leader unless he gets very unlucky or reads someone completely wrong. Thus, the pool of potential recruits for each of the 3 main factions is going to decrease by 1 person a night.
Now, humor me for a second, and lets run through a sample situation. For this, let's assume (even though this won't be true) that each faction leader picks a different person each night, and no two people pick the same person in one night, so 4 people are getting recruited per night. Let's also assume that each faction leader is smart and can figure out who their rivals are, so no faction leaders are picked to recruit.
The first night, everyone is able to pick, no trouble, so there's one person dead from the "lynch" during the day, there are 15 unaligned, and 2 people in every faction (counting the faction leaders).
The second day, let's say another unaligned person is lynched, as this is the most likely occurence. Then, another round of recruitment happens as normal, so there are 2 dead players, 11 unaligned, and 3 per faction.
The third day, lets say a green guy gets lynched, as it's now more likely that someone in a faction is going to be lynched than an unaligned player. Then, at night, let's say Red tries to recruit a Yellow, so fails (I assume he gets a message saying "You cant recruit that player" or something similar), Blue recruits an unaligned, Green recruits a Blue, and Yellow recruits an unaligned. So now we have 9 unaligned players, 3 Red players, 3 Blue players, 3 Green players, and 4 yellow players.
The fourth day, just for kicks, an unaligned player gets killed. At night, Yellow recruits a Blue, Red recruits a Blue, Blue recruits an Unaligned, and Green recruits a Red. So now we have 7 unaligned, 3 Reds, 2 Blues, 4 Greens, and 5 Yellows.
See where I'm going with this? Obviously, I ignored some things such as nightkills and assumed some things that probably won't happen with this game, but my point is: The Yellow Turbans are the most likely to get very strong very quickly, unless we harass them early. In the example above, the Yellow Turbans now have the largest voting bloc in the game, so assuming the YT leader has been reading the thread, he can now get people to start bandwagons, and begin targeting people who he thinks are faction leaders, as he will have enough armies to overcome their natural defense. Because unaligned players will probably just be bandwagoning with the biggest voting bloc, this can become a major issue very quickly.
Of course, the YT leader could, at any point, accidentally try to recruit a faction leader and screw himself over, but I really don't think this is likely to happen. The way I see it, I have a very small chance of becoming a Yellow Turban for a while, as they only get 1 person per night, and I have a much larger chance of becoming part of one of the other factions, since they get up to 3 per night. Since I'll obviously want whatever faction I'm part of to win, I want the Yellow Turbans dead, even though I'm currently not part of any faction. Thus, I'm going to say, I will switch my vote off of Radfield if anyone explicitly says they will be gunning for Yellow Turbans with the daykill if they get it.
There's my argument.
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On May 19 2010 04:05 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 03:49 Caller wrote:On May 19 2010 03:17 Fishball wrote:
So do the players ever know which leader recruited them?
Do the leaders know what powers the players have when he/she recruited them?
Since enemy players can be recruited, that means a player can be "recruited" back and forth? If this is the case, is this game mainly a war among the 4 leaders and the rest are just chess pieces?
no no yes and ^_^ Do the players ever know which Faction recruited them? (Yes, according to previous page?) Do the leaders know what character the player he recruited has? What is the incentive for the players to help a certain faction leader? I mean player A can be playing for Wu the first day, then playing for Shu the second day. Also, if player A carries crucial information of his faction, and was then recruited to another faction... well, you know what I'm going at.
a) no, they don't even know that they are recruited. The only one that gets any confirmation is the leader.
b) no, he doesn't
c) That's all up to the discretion of the player. Just like in RTK, some people planned for defections ahead of time
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On May 19 2010 04:47 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 04:23 XeliN wrote:
BrownBear catchup, same challenge to you, provide one coherent argument for why a unaligned (as most of us are) townie ought to try to vote for a suspected yellow at this stage.
Otherwise there is no reason to do so and I would go back to the inactive//Abenson idea purely for reasons of game quality. The way I see it, every night, 3 people are recruited to the 3 main factions, and one is recruited to the Yellow Turbans. Naturally, there will be some overlap, occasionally two factions will try to recruit the same person and bounce, that kind of thing, but for the most part this will hold true. There are 24 people in the game, meaning that the pool of recruitable people is 20. The YT leader has a 3 in 20 chance of screwing up and getting his entire faction killed if he picks completely randomly, which he will not do, so it's fairly safe to say that he is not going to recruit a faction leader unless he gets very unlucky or reads someone completely wrong. Thus, the pool of potential recruits for each of the 3 main factions is going to decrease by 1 person a night. Now, humor me for a second, and lets run through a sample situation. For this, let's assume (even though this won't be true) that each faction leader picks a different person each night, and no two people pick the same person in one night, so 4 people are getting recruited per night. Let's also assume that each faction leader is smart and can figure out who their rivals are, so no faction leaders are picked to recruit. The first night, everyone is able to pick, no trouble, so there's one person dead from the "lynch" during the day, there are 15 unaligned, and 2 people in every faction (counting the faction leaders). The second day, let's say another unaligned person is lynched, as this is the most likely occurence. Then, another round of recruitment happens as normal, so there are 2 dead players, 11 unaligned, and 3 per faction. The third day, lets say a green guy gets lynched, as it's now more likely that someone in a faction is going to be lynched than an unaligned player. Then, at night, let's say Red tries to recruit a Yellow, so fails (I assume he gets a message saying "You cant recruit that player" or something similar), Blue recruits an unaligned, Green recruits a Blue, and Yellow recruits an unaligned. So now we have 9 unaligned players, 3 Red players, 3 Blue players, 3 Green players, and 4 yellow players. The fourth day, just for kicks, an unaligned player gets killed. At night, Yellow recruits a Blue, Red recruits a Blue, Blue recruits an Unaligned, and Green recruits a Red. So now we have 7 unaligned, 3 Reds, 2 Blues, 4 Greens, and 5 Yellows. See where I'm going with this? Obviously, I ignored some things such as nightkills and assumed some things that probably won't happen with this game, but my point is: The Yellow Turbans are the most likely to get very strong very quickly, unless we harass them early. In the example above, the Yellow Turbans now have the largest voting bloc in the game, so assuming the YT leader has been reading the thread, he can now get people to start bandwagons, and begin targeting people who he thinks are faction leaders, as he will have enough armies to overcome their natural defense. Because unaligned players will probably just be bandwagoning with the biggest voting bloc, this can become a major issue very quickly. Of course, the YT leader could, at any point, accidentally try to recruit a faction leader and screw himself over, but I really don't think this is likely to happen. The way I see it, I have a very small chance of becoming a Yellow Turban for a while, as they only get 1 person per night, and I have a much larger chance of becoming part of one of the other factions, since they get up to 3 per night. Since I'll obviously want whatever faction I'm part of to win, I want the Yellow Turbans dead, even though I'm currently not part of any faction. Thus, I'm going to say, I will switch my vote off of Radfield if anyone explicitly says they will be gunning for Yellow Turbans with the daykill if they get it. There's my argument.
This. I'm impressed that someone actually went through the calculations. It is in benefit of everyone to get YT except the YT themselves.
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Announcement: I don't care about anything right now.
and so should you (not care)
Why? We are not really part of any clan/army right now, and therefore there is no point to us trying to do anything at all. Eliminating the Yellows sounds like a good plan, but it doesn't really benefit us.
We, as regular townies, don't care about the politics right now
Therefore I will simply un-vote and watch what happens (and occasionally spam)
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On May 11 2010 06:08 Caller wrote:
Voting rules:
6. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain.
7. Majority voting is not in effect.
Inactivity
If you sign up for this game you better be posting and voting at least once every day and night cycle. If you don’t I will annihilate your prefecture with some kind of natural disaster. And then ban you permanently from any of my games.
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On May 19 2010 04:47 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 04:23 XeliN wrote:
BrownBear catchup, same challenge to you, provide one coherent argument for why a unaligned (as most of us are) townie ought to try to vote for a suspected yellow at this stage.
Otherwise there is no reason to do so and I would go back to the inactive//Abenson idea purely for reasons of game quality. The way I see it, every night, 3 people are recruited to the 3 main factions, and one is recruited to the Yellow Turbans. Naturally, there will be some overlap, occasionally two factions will try to recruit the same person and bounce, that kind of thing, but for the most part this will hold true. There are 24 people in the game, meaning that the pool of recruitable people is 20. The YT leader has a 3 in 20 chance of screwing up and getting his entire faction killed if he picks completely randomly, which he will not do, so it's fairly safe to say that he is not going to recruit a faction leader unless he gets very unlucky or reads someone completely wrong. Thus, the pool of potential recruits for each of the 3 main factions is going to decrease by 1 person a night. Now, humor me for a second, and lets run through a sample situation. For this, let's assume (even though this won't be true) that each faction leader picks a different person each night, and no two people pick the same person in one night, so 4 people are getting recruited per night. Let's also assume that each faction leader is smart and can figure out who their rivals are, so no faction leaders are picked to recruit. The first night, everyone is able to pick, no trouble, so there's one person dead from the "lynch" during the day, there are 15 unaligned, and 2 people in every faction (counting the faction leaders). The second day, let's say another unaligned person is lynched, as this is the most likely occurence. Then, another round of recruitment happens as normal, so there are 2 dead players, 11 unaligned, and 3 per faction. The third day, lets say a green guy gets lynched, as it's now more likely that someone in a faction is going to be lynched than an unaligned player. Then, at night, let's say Red tries to recruit a Yellow, so fails (I assume he gets a message saying "You cant recruit that player" or something similar), Blue recruits an unaligned, Green recruits a Blue, and Yellow recruits an unaligned. So now we have 9 unaligned players, 3 Red players, 3 Blue players, 3 Green players, and 4 yellow players. The fourth day, just for kicks, an unaligned player gets killed. At night, Yellow recruits a Blue, Red recruits a Blue, Blue recruits an Unaligned, and Green recruits a Red. So now we have 7 unaligned, 3 Reds, 2 Blues, 4 Greens, and 5 Yellows. See where I'm going with this? Obviously, I ignored some things such as nightkills and assumed some things that probably won't happen with this game, but my point is: The Yellow Turbans are the most likely to get very strong very quickly, unless we harass them early. In the example above, the Yellow Turbans now have the largest voting bloc in the game, so assuming the YT leader has been reading the thread, he can now get people to start bandwagons, and begin targeting people who he thinks are faction leaders, as he will have enough armies to overcome their natural defense. Because unaligned players will probably just be bandwagoning with the biggest voting bloc, this can become a major issue very quickly. Of course, the YT leader could, at any point, accidentally try to recruit a faction leader and screw himself over, but I really don't think this is likely to happen. The way I see it, I have a very small chance of becoming a Yellow Turban for a while, as they only get 1 person per night, and I have a much larger chance of becoming part of one of the other factions, since they get up to 3 per night. Since I'll obviously want whatever faction I'm part of to win, I want the Yellow Turbans dead, even though I'm currently not part of any faction. Thus, I'm going to say, I will switch my vote off of Radfield if anyone explicitly says they will be gunning for Yellow Turbans with the daykill if they get it. There's my argument.
Also, as an addendum, since PMs are allowed, the YT leader can just tell everyone he recruits who he is and what they are, as YTs are YTs for life once they get recruited, thus there is no danger that they get recruited away from him and tell on him to another faction leader.
If he recruits someone that was part of a faction, and that person knows who the faction leader was, then they have every incentive to tell the YT leader, as they die if he dies. Thus, the bigger the YTs get, the more likely it is that the YTs will win, as they will likely have the knowledge of who at least some of the faction leaders are, and once they get 5-6 people they can just win the game easily by bandwagoning votes to a random YT, who will then target that faction leader.
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On May 19 2010 05:16 Abenson wrote:
Announcement: I don't care about anything right now.
and so should you (not care)
Why? We are not really part of any clan/army right now, and therefore there is no point to us trying to do anything at all. Eliminating the Yellows sounds like a good plan, but it doesn't really benefit us.
We, as regular townies, don't care about the politics right now
Therefore I will simply un-vote and watch what happens (and occasionally spam)
Did you not read my post? Eliminating the Yellows does everything for us. Not only are they the most powerful faction, they're the faction you most likely won't be a part of, and they can win with only 6-7 players, meaning a lot of you will be out of luck.
Also, you didn't read the OP, which specifically states that YOU MUST VOTE OR CALLER WILL KILL YOU.
God, you are an idiot...
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On May 19 2010 05:25 BrownBear wrote:
God, you are an idiot...
Isn't that already established?
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Well, ok, yeah. Fair enough
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On May 19 2010 04:50 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 04:05 Fishball wrote:On May 19 2010 03:49 Caller wrote:On May 19 2010 03:17 Fishball wrote:
So do the players ever know which leader recruited them?
Do the leaders know what powers the players have when he/she recruited them?
Since enemy players can be recruited, that means a player can be "recruited" back and forth? If this is the case, is this game mainly a war among the 4 leaders and the rest are just chess pieces?
no no yes and ^_^ Do the players ever know which Faction recruited them? (Yes, according to previous page?) Do the leaders know what character the player he recruited has? What is the incentive for the players to help a certain faction leader? I mean player A can be playing for Wu the first day, then playing for Shu the second day. Also, if player A carries crucial information of his faction, and was then recruited to another faction... well, you know what I'm going at. a) no, they don't even know that they are recruited. The only one that gets any confirmation is the leader. b) no, he doesn't c) That's all up to the discretion of the player. Just like in RTK, some people planned for defections ahead of time
Wait, what, the player doesn't even know he is recruited?...Ok
- Will there be a count of how many members per faction in the front page? Like Wu: X members, Shu: Y members, Wei: Z members. At least some indicator?
- So the leader doesn't even know whom or what he recruited, quite interesting.
- Well in RTK, you know who you are actually recruiting, his Fighting/Int/Diplomatic/Charismatic etc. skills and the such.  . I mean, for the majority of the players, we aren't even fighting for a common goal, accusing each other "scum" or the sorts; As if we are mindless zombies.
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I don't know why you guys all fighting, seems like everyone should just join the yellow turban and win and screw the faction leaders. xP
Then it's just faction leaders vs. yellow turban. =P I.e. Faction leaders pretending to be normal so the YT tries to recruit them and dies, yellow turban trying to "lynch" faction leaders during the day.
Oh man, that would be amusing. This game is a lot cooler than I thought (though also a lot more complicated so I'm some what glad I'm not playing, seems pretty chaotic right now xD).
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 19 2010 04:50 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 04:05 Fishball wrote:On May 19 2010 03:49 Caller wrote:On May 19 2010 03:17 Fishball wrote:
So do the players ever know which leader recruited them?
Do the leaders know what powers the players have when he/she recruited them?
Since enemy players can be recruited, that means a player can be "recruited" back and forth? If this is the case, is this game mainly a war among the 4 leaders and the rest are just chess pieces?
no no yes and ^_^ Do the players ever know which Faction recruited them? (Yes, according to previous page?) Do the leaders know what character the player he recruited has? What is the incentive for the players to help a certain faction leader? I mean player A can be playing for Wu the first day, then playing for Shu the second day. Also, if player A carries crucial information of his faction, and was then recruited to another faction... well, you know what I'm going at. a) no, they don't even know that they are recruited. The only one that gets any confirmation is the leader. b) no, he doesn't c) That's all up to the discretion of the player. Just like in RTK, some people planned for defections ahead of time
So if I'm reading this right, townies will never know for sure that they've ever been recruited? Sure a leader might tell us we're on team A or team B, but we'll have no idea if they're lying or not. So essentially, we never become part of a team?
If that's the case, how can the 19 townies ever make any real decisions? How will we even know if we're winning or losing?
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...:O I didn't even realize the PM advantage YT had. Also, Caller, seriously? I won't even know what I am?
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EPT
