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Johnny I am not making a big deal, I have given no information whatsoever as to my role and cresentia still is labouring under the delusion that I have and it is irritating, especially since it is unlike 'her?'
On your second point I did read the post, I am simply saying that this reaction:
On April 28 2010 13:54 d3_crescentia wrote:
Oh BrownBear,
Thank you so much. Let's get this out of the way, first.
Vote: BrownBear
Seemed off, and is not consistent with how I have seen cresentia play in the past.
And once again you have posted something fundamentally meaningless yet suspicion casting "I wouldn't be suprised if both xelin and brownbear are both scum, all their posts reek of scum. can we lynch these two already?"
How useful of you to cast suspicion and say my, well our, posting reeks of scum without explaining what you mean at all or providing any form of argument as to why you say that. You have now numerous times this game tried to cast suspiscion without actually providing much if any form of reasoned analysis to my knowledge you have not provided one coherent argument against me that I have not explained, and sure I could be lying but you have just let it drop and are not continuing to analyse. If you think I am scum, address my explanation and reasoning, outline why the way I am posting is suspicious to you, compare styles with past games. Casting suspision without substance is exactly the type of thing that is beneficial to the mafia if they can get away with it, if you are actually town stop doing so and clearly outline your reasons when you try to label people and if your mafia, well don't expect to get away with it.
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I [red] Remove: Vote [red] for now, going to be busy for a while next 10ish hours so may not be able to post and I'll save my vote till later.
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Uh, I'm not running in and deciding this guys. xD
Her post? d3's a girl now? xD
I'm more for the XeliN lynch, in terms of who I think is more scummy. I also feel bad lynching BrownBear in two games on the same night... xD
I stated before I would prefer to lynch the more inactive suspect, since the active one would leave more clues. So BrownBear looks to be less active.
However since my vote would lead to L-1, I am refraining from doing so in case mafia jumps the last vote.
I would like to hear from Hobbes and RoL first before we proceed.
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On April 28 2010 15:35 XeliN wrote:Johnny I am not making a big deal, I have given no information whatsoever as to my role and cresentia still is labouring under the delusion that I have and it is irritating, especially since it is unlike 'her?' On your second point I did read the post, I am simply saying that this reaction: Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 13:54 d3_crescentia wrote:
Oh BrownBear,
Thank you so much. Let's get this out of the way, first.
Vote: BrownBear Seemed off, and is not consistent with how I have seen cresentia play in the past. And once again you have posted something fundamentally meaningless yet suspicion casting "I wouldn't be suprised if both xelin and brownbear are both scum, all their posts reek of scum. can we lynch these two already?" How useful of you to cast suspicion and say my, well our, posting reeks of scum without explaining what you mean at all or providing any form of argument as to why you say that. You have now numerous times this game tried to cast suspiscion without actually providing much if any form of reasoned analysis to my knowledge you have not provided one coherent argument against me that I have not explained, and sure I could be lying but you have just let it drop and are not continuing to analyse. If you think I am scum, address my explanation and reasoning, outline why the way I am posting is suspicious to you, compare styles with past games. Casting suspision without substance is exactly the type of thing that is beneficial to the mafia if they can get away with it, if you are actually town stop doing so and clearly outline your reasons when you try to label people and if your mafia, well don't expect to get away with it.
just to clear things up, i dont even know if it's a him or her or whatever, from now on ill just their name.
1) why does d3's vote seem off to you at all? d3 simply voted before he typed his reasoning. can you explain to me how this is not how d3 usually plays? because it seems like pretty normal play to me. you obviously read his vote and then this reasoning since they were both before you posted this gem: Not jump to "Oh i had better lynch BrownBear now".. you really are acting unusually to me and it's making my thoughts that you are mafia all the stronger. please go into further detail why voting and then explaining your reasoning for voting makes d3 look suspicious.
2) i agree with you on the night action point after rereading the posts more carefully. yes, you are not making it a big deal. i can understand why d3 wrote that because your responses can be interpreted that way. but answer my question, why not just simply say that you have no night action? i see no harm in saying that.
3) if you think voicing my suspicions in the game is a bad thing and anti-town play, then i guess we have to agree to disagree. also, you need to stop saying that i just cast FoS's on people without any reason cause that's just a straight up lie. you need to reread my posts more closely if you think that all my accusations are just i cast suspicions without reason.
4) comparing styles from the current game to previous games is in my opinion a complete waste of time because any good mafia player knows that you need to always stay unpredictable to win. i'm just going to give the benefit of the doubt to the players in this game and pretend there is nothing of interest in comparing past play styles. i don't not waste my time analyzing their past play styles when i can just analyze their current playstyle.
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I'll dress in drag and call myself Samantha if you pay me enough.
Xelin, perhaps I should slow down a little bit and iron out the details.
You said that you might or might not have a night action, but my comment was in response to BrownBear incorrectly attributing the statement to me. I could care less whether or not you actually DO have a night action. It bothers me more why you would word things in a way that suggests that you could be blue when it's most beneficial just to lie and say that you're green no matter what your alignment is, unless you're reluctant about lying and end up telling some sort of misty half-truth.
As for BrownBear, I thought that's exactly what I did, highlight where the reasoning is screwy, explain why he's wrong, and place my FoS on him - only this time it actually comes with the vote first, and with a bit harsher language than I usually use. At this point, though, the kiddie gloves need to come off, and we *really* need to start pushing for scum.
It's late; I'm still sick and need to sleep for a good while. Good night.
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On April 28 2010 15:49 Korynne wrote:
However since my vote would lead to L-1, I am refraining from doing so in case mafia jumps the last vote.
you need to stop using this as an excuse to vote because it's very easy to catch mafia jumping on bandwagons to lynch innocent townies in a small game such as this. right now i see your hesitation to vote as a red who's trying not to get attention drawn to him or herself. you were so eager to vote for abenson so i really don't understand why you are so hesitant to vote. is it because i called out the quick votes on abenson as scum behavior and you don't want the same label used on you?
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On April 28 2010 01:32 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:
My posts were about the Abenson lynch because, as I said in one of my posts, the vast majority of the thread was at the time discussing either the Abenson lynch or Abenson's ideas. I will try to be more active today, but this game is pretty inactive in general right now.
On the topic of Abenson, I stand by the lynch, as we now have more info to discuss, and we don't have to deal with the entire freaking thread being people offering their viewpoints on LAL
i love it when people flat out lie.
hey! lets lynch this mofo since we're doing LaL, right???
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I can see why d3 voted immediately for BrownBear, he was afraid mafia was going to jump him and hammer him in. And I'm pretty sure the only reason he voted for himself is just to lure someone to be the 3rd person to vote for him.
I mean seriously, it's in no one's interest to vote for themselves.\
Johnny, as I said before, consider my vote as the first one for XeliN. If you haven't noticed if we mislynch someone tonight tomorrow it's going to be 3T/2M. Forgive me if I want to be careful about not getting to that. Seeing as how impatient some of our town is, can you blame me for being careful here?
I vote freely "in spirit," I just don't cast my official vote because I don't want us to end the day way early like last time and mislynch someone (I started work on Monday, so I won't be online 24/7 to babysit my vote). We have another day, and we haven't heard back from two out of seven people still alive. That's rather significant.
Like I said, you can consider my vote for XeliN as his first vote. Which I have not modified yet. It's ridiculous of you to accuse me of being scum just for trying to be careful and making sure we don't have a mislynch.
What now? If I vote for one of them you're going to accuse me of being scum because I'll be the 3rd or 4th person to vote for them? Seems like I can't win here with you (and I don't intend to, it's a pretty poor accusation).
Would you have preferred I voted randomly for one of the two and hope that I hit mafia so the actual mafia won't hammer him? It only takes two misguided townies agreeing on another townie to lynch with mafia support.
Now please, stop trying to rush people into voting before we hear back from everyone (RoL and Hobbes), unless it's late in the day (like 1~4 hours before deadline depending on votes and activity). Compared to XeliN and BrownBear I don't think you look scummy but please don't make things worse for yourself.
Also RoL stated that we should be active, and then disappeared. You think we should lynch the hypocrite or the liar? (Either way I have no intention of doing either until hearing from them, and after hearing back from them I doubt I will be changing from XeliN/BB to one of them.)
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Since XeliN decided to post some delicious PMs, I decided I would do so myself as well, nothing as exciting, but since he hasn't responded in this thread since I have PM'd him back and I'm already done making my lovely post for him. Here it is!
Like I said, no reason to be PMing, please pose your question in the thread. If you have already done so then I'm sorry I didn't notice it, a reference to that will suffice.
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Original Message:
Your long ass post is old and doesn't address anything beyond it. (not having the enviable ability to timetravel)
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Original Message:
Did you not read my long ass post analyzing everyone?
This conversation has no reason to be in PM. Feel free to question me in the thread.
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Original Message:
Why do you think I'm scummy, what about my posting, points I've made e.t.c makes you suspect I'm red?
Never mind that I am suspicious of why you wanted to carry out this conversation in PM (when I clearly stated we should proceed to the thread instead). Here's your analysis.
I don't see that I have that much explaining to do, the first vote of any game is pretty much a crapshoot and Abenson pretty much outlined that he wasn't not being very useful. I was against them initially rushing to vote for Abenson based almost entirely on his LaL posting but then he carried on being unuseful and providing no defence for himself other than accusing people of being scum.
If you're playing a 30 people game sure let's just lynch someone random the first day. But we can only afford 2 consecutive mislynches before we're in peril 3T/2M on day 3. I don't think first day is something to be taken lightly from this perspective.
I don't agree with voting someone off because they're not very useful in a 9 people game. (In fact even in the other mafia, I mostly propose we should look for better targets to vote for than Scara and nai.Protoss because even if they were mafia they're not going to contribute that much anyway)
Also there is no such thing as "save some time," only robbing the town of valuable time they could use to analyze (more like, give them more time to possibly be online and read the thread and respond). By just hammering in the vote, you robbed us of the potential opinion of other people who could've been mafia. This is valuable information we could use later to find them. Therefore this is very scummy behaviour overall. Don't brush off rushing the first day's lynch, giving town less information is never good.
So we're all done with your whole shenanigan, and now comes the big reveal. PM conversation with d3. Well let's see, you think d3 is mafia. Have you thought about this from a town's perspective?? If d3 is not mafia, you just ratted out his "big plan" to get Johnny, congratulations. Were you perhaps scared because Johnny is your partner and you were afraid d3 was going to catch him? You can accuse him of being scum for trying to gauge whether you are blue as much as he could have an argument for suspecting both you and Johnny for you insisting on asking about his plan. Of course, you were "just curious" and wanted to know the plan. Well he was "just curious" and wanted to know if you were blue.
Glad to see you're finally understanding how important it is not to vote too quickly, but you still put out a vote for d3, and rather than doing something you can control (unvoting for d3) you ask other people to not vote for d3... So what? If someone votes for d3 and he turns out town you can say but see guys, I told you guys not to vote so soon!
d3 clearly stated that he was just getting the vote out of the way. And he did follow up with analysis. So if you're going to re-vote for d3 later please provide new analysis on the relevance of that.
So there you have it XeliN, my new post just for you.
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Good night folks, I will be back in 14 hours or so. I really don't wish to see a mislynch before I get back. xD
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What now? If I vote for one of them you're going to accuse me of being scum because I'll be the 3rd or 4th person to vote for them? Seems like I can't win here with you (and I don't intend to, it's a pretty poor accusation).
i guess choice of words were too strong. i'm not really saying you are scum at all, just saying in my opinion, not voting in this situation seems like scummy behavior. an actual red could just be lurking and waiting for 3 votes onto a green and then cast the decisive vote and skate by with another mislynch. can you see why i thought not voting looked like scummy behavior? there is a lot of information that one could use to cast a vote.
you're right tho, i forgot about your spirit vote on xelin a couple pages back. so i apologize for misinterpreting your actions. i really wasn't accusing you of being scum, only bb and xelin. i hope we're still cool. 
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So we're all done with your whole shenanigan, and now comes the big reveal. PM conversation with d3. Well let's see, you think d3 is mafia. Have you thought about this from a town's perspective?? If d3 is not mafia, you just ratted out his "big plan" to get Johnny, congratulations. Were you perhaps scared because Johnny is your partner and you were afraid d3 was going to catch him? You can accuse him of being scum for trying to gauge whether you are blue as much as he could have an argument for suspecting both you and Johnny for you insisting on asking about his plan. Of course, you were "just curious" and wanted to know the plan. Well he was "just curious" and wanted to know if you were blue.
![[image loading]](http://101tees.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/trap.jpg)
thanks admiral! i totally forgot that d3 had a plan to get me
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I PM quite abit in games that allow it, you put out you find me suspicious and I wanted to know why, but seeing you've written a big post im going to read it now.
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ok your points seem weak to me, but then again I know I'm town and that the one single thing that I have done that could be linked to a mafia type action is the vote for Abenson, although I fully explained that. Anyway...
Firstly I have outlined the reasons why I find d3 suspicious, you claim I haven't but please go back and reread, secondly his "big plan" you mention, if you read the actual PM's between us I sepcifically ask him, "what is your plan for johnny or are you going to keep it close to your chest" he doesn't even respond which led me to believe his "big plan" was a "big fail". If he legitimately had a plan but didn't want to reveal to me he would have just said "I'm not saying now, you'll find out later on e.t.c" but he didnt even address it, also I felt the suspicious nature of his PM's was more worthwhile to share with the town than the slight chance he actually had a plan(on retrospect I could have simply edited out the big about it but either way imo your overstressing something unimportant and I doubt he had a plan anyway)
You say Instead of doing something I can control (removiing my vote from d3 to not risk someone getting lynched before everyone has had a chance to contribute//show they are active) I instead keep it and simply ask others not to bandwagon too soon. I removed my vote, admittedly the red tagging didn't work but it was still bolded plain as day, just as you have failed to read my reasons for voting d3 and jumped to the conclusion that I didn't//don't have any so you have failed to read that I changed my vote.
So as far in terms of substantial reasons for considering me mafia, you are relying on my voting Abenson. I have explained this as best I can and outlined my reasoning//mindset behind it. If you think that is bullshit then fine I can do no more, but I would ask you to reread my posts talking about that as the only point you brought up about my defence of the vote on Abenson, was that I considerend Abenson to not be very useful and you said you disagree with voting for someone based on their usefulness.
Put more effort into your analysis, if i am mafia then it is in your interest to address my specific points of defence, analyse my posting, not simply rely on your opinion of actions and generalisations.
And RoL can you hurry up and post...
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The last bit in the post above was to eveyone, not specific to you Kor, you haven't generalised much but there seems to be quite alot of "seems scummy as hell to me" type comments flying around without much backup.
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Brownbear, your entire analysis falls apart due to the fact that d3 didn't claim to have a night action. Your posts generally are fairly nonsensical and contain scummy analysis. As of now, Vote: Brownbear
Otherwise, however, my suspicions lie with Johnny. Abenson's mislynch has given you a perfect opportunity to incessantly paint everyone in the game red pretty credibly. You've taken this and run with it in a big way, and your play in general suggest to me mafia in the style of DrH from Incognito's game, in which the mafia takes control of the thread, becoming the most frequent poster and "leading" the town. I don't know about you, it's mainly a feeling, so my vote is with Brownbear for now. Still, I want to make it clear that at least one person is extremely wary of you
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Hobbes your are not the only one, I was suspicious and still am of johnny for the same reason, I disagree on voting brownbear, if this was the first day lynch I would be fine with it because the reasons against him seem similar to the reasons raised against Abenson but we have far more information to go on now and quite frankly far better candidates. Brown does not seem mafia although I'll have to go over the other game because if he shows clarity, strong argument and reasoning e.t.c then the fact it is missing from this game would be telling.
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Tell us what you find on Brownbear in the other game, should be fascinating
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XeliN, I saw that you fail-removed your vote. But that's when you said you were going to be busy for the next 10 hours, it wasn't related to you warning the town not to immediately jump onto d3.
I never said your reasons for voting d3 was a problem, I'm just saying that revealing some info, if d3 turns out to be not mafia, is bad for town.
Hobbes, why do you post so little? Dx (nothing wrong with the content of your posts, just so little of em...)
So now we need to hear from RoL... =\
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On April 29 2010 00:43 XeliN wrote:
I PM quite abit in games that allow it, you put out you find me suspicious and I wanted to know why, but seeing you've written a big post im going to read it now.
I don't have an issue with PMing.
I don't have an issue with you wanting to know why I find you suspicious.
I see no reason why you wouldn't do it in this thread however unless you're mafia and you want to use the information I give you to help you appear less scummy.
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EPT
