World at War Mafia - Page 113

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JeeJee

Canada5652 Posts

April 09 2010 15:51 GMT

#2241

On April 10 2010 00:50 citi.zen wrote:

Show nested quote +

Is this in relation to Caller's cop claim? What are you replying to?

apologies, should have quoted the post
it was from opz, his last line:

Do you also keep ignoring my calls for your role claim on purpose?

~OpZ~

United States3652 Posts

April 09 2010 15:53 GMT

#2242

On April 10 2010 00:40 citi.zen wrote:

Show nested quote +

Wait, don't we have the votes for Caller already? Can we get an official count?

Me you haster Abenson does not a majority make.

I say we lynch LMNOP.

Numbers don't lie. And JeeJee won't Role claim.

I'm going to work. Be back in 8 hours.

And citizen, since you can't launch real nukes....Please Nuke Iaaan Also.

-_- either you'll do us a favor, by proving you can't launch nukes, or b)prove Iaaan isn't a veteran.

Bye.

Also, Everyone please vote LMNOP as per this post.

On April 10 2010 00:43 ~OpZ~ wrote:
##Vote Elemenope

He is mafia by numbers.

If Caller is truthful, Elemenope can't be mafia unless their is three mafia, and we continue to accept JeeJee as Town. Remember, Caller "checked" D3.
Abenson, Myself, Caller, D3, JeeJee
If Haster and Citizen are right
Citizen, Haster, Abenson, Me, JeeJee

Otherwise we are not in a lylo situation and can be wrong.

It makes sense if you think about it. JeeJee and Abenson were the first to claim nuke theft. Maybe JeeJee and Abenson are both Mafia and use it to confirm JeeJee? Only other possibility I can come up with. But I'm taking it as Abenson is town, and told me the truth. Then JeeJee is town too. So he must be on the list including me and Abenson. If we are in a lylo, LMNOP and IAAAN are both mafia. With the other mafia to be decided between Citizen/haster, and Caller/d3 (who are absent from the discussion at hand).

If we aren't in a lylo, we can be wrong. All we need to do is lynch LMNOP and we should have a perfectly clear picture, BECAUSE HE CAN'T BE TOWN IF JEEJEE IS TOWN.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

April 09 2010 15:53 GMT

#2243

hey guys I'm probably gonna be partying for ohhh the next 72 hours with like 15 women so umm...if I'm not here the game is on pause. Flamewheel? Qatol? L? anyone wanna mod for me once I disappear later tonight? ^_^

~OpZ~

United States3652 Posts

April 09 2010 15:57 GMT

#2244

"as a sidenote to opz -- i have only been skimming you versus lmnop for the reason that if my judgment is correct here, there is at least one mafia between lmnop/iaaan, and very likely both of them are. am i reading this correctly, did he accuse you of being mafia?"

Good, then you don't mind lynching LMNOP with me?

Citizen, we need 5 votes for the majority, not 4. And if lynching LMNOP will convince JeeJee, I'm fine with it. I've done explained he can't possibly be town no matter what if this is Lylo

Elemenope

Burkina Faso1704 Posts

April 09 2010 16:00 GMT

#2245

Out of context? Let’s examine all the day one votes until you claimed mason with Abenson:
Amber votes L
Zona Votes Caller
Xelin votes Opz
Meeple votes Opz
Treehugger votes L

Oh, and I just saw something curious reading through:

On March 24 2010 04:50 ~OpZ~ wrote:

Show nested quote +

You clearly have anti-nukes. =D

Anyway, Long story short, read my post directed at Xelin.

Anyway:
Versatile votes L
Caller votes Opz
Abenson votes L
Opz Votes Nemy
Johnnyspazz votes L
Iaaan votes Abenson
Fishball votes L
Johnnyspazz removes vote from L, places it onto Nemy
Zona removes vote from Caller, places it on Phrujabz
Opz removes from Nemy, places it onto Phrujabz *This is where you breadcrumb Abenson into your post*
So at this state: L has 5 votes of needed 12
You have 3 votes of needed 12
Abenson has 1 vote of needed 12
Then Phrujabz is about to be modkilled, so
Xelin votes Abenson
Zona votes Abenson
I vote Opz
Nikon votes Opz
Caller removes vote from Opz to Bill Murray
RoL votes L
Infund votes Opz
Haster votes Abenson
Johnnyspazz votes Abenson
JeeJee vote Abenson
Meeple removes vote from Opz to Abenson
D3 votes L
Amber votes Abenson
Opz removes vote from Phrujabz onto L
Nemy votes Bill Murray

Which is where we stand at the quote.

So at the time of you breadcrumbing Abenson into your post, you were a full 2 votes below L and a full 9 votes below the needed 12. You cannot claim that you breadcrumbed Abenson into your post because “you were in danger of dying” You didn’t even hit 6 votes ever, 5 was the maximum amount of votes you had on you the whole day 1. How can anybody who has less than half the votes of the town think they’re in danger of dying, especially when that person was active? L was always in a greater danger of dying than anybody else until Phrujabz was to be modkilled, and then we had cited that Abenson couldn’t get away with inactivity. This right here should’ve clued you in thinking that you were completely safe from any type of lynch. Who would think of themselves to be a viable lynch target with less than half the townie votes, unless you’re dumb or RoL, neither mutually exclusive.

On April 10 2010 00:40 ~OpZ~ wrote:
JeeJee. I'm tired, I gotta work. I've explained my trap. If you don't see it I don't know what to think. Could I possibly convince you to vote for LMNOP then? One of us posting right now is atleast mafia. Be it Haster, LMNOP, Citizen, or You.

I personally am going with Me, You, Haster, Citizen, and Abenson being town.

Or is it Me You Abenson D3 Caller? Neither way leaves room for LMNOP, and both ways have 5 "Confirmed" townies. LMNOP is mafia by the numbers according to Callers alignment check of D3, BY THE LOGIC YOU WANT TO GO BY.

Let us Lynch LMNOP. If Haster and Citizen are right, Then LMNOP is mafia. If Caller is right, LMNOP is mafia. THERE IS NO WAY GIVEN THE NUMBERS (IF you aren't Mafia) FOR LMNOP TO BE TOWN. (Unless there are really only 3 fucking mafia, or no mafia, but if there is no mafia, we might as well lynch LMNOP anyway.)

Do you also keep ignoring my calls for your role claim on purpose?

-_-

[b]OR[/b which you seem to casually exclude.
Mafia are You, Citizen, and one or two of JeeJee/Haster/Iaaan are mafia which means that Caller, Abenson, d3, myself, and the other 2 or 1 of JeeJee/Haster/Iaaan are town.
You claim that you are townie-aligned, which means that there is no way for me to be innocent whether Caller is lying or Caller is telling the truth. But as a townie-aligned person, you are also lying on the last day which is especially scummy, so I don’t fully trust you to be townie-aligned at all which throws this argument out the window.

citi.zen

2509 Posts

April 09 2010 16:03 GMT

#2246

On April 10 2010 00:57 ~OpZ~ wrote:
"as a sidenote to opz -- i have only been skimming you versus lmnop for the reason that if my judgment is correct here, there is at least one mafia between lmnop/iaaan, and very likely both of them are. am i reading this correctly, did he accuse you of being mafia?"

Good, then you don't mind lynching LMNOP with me?

Citizen, we need 5 votes for the majority, not 4. And if lynching LMNOP will convince JeeJee, I'm fine with it. I've done explained he can't possibly be town no matter what if this is Lylo

The only problem is this: I am 100% sure Caller is lying, since he claimed to have confirmed me as a red, which I obviously know I am not; I was and still am comfortable getting lynched myself to give the town indisputable information about Caller and his fake claims.

LMNOP I cannot be certain of. Probable perhaps, but far from certain in my book.

~OpZ~

United States3652 Posts

April 09 2010 16:05 GMT

#2247

On April 10 2010 01:03 citi.zen wrote:

Show nested quote +

Citizen. The math. Benefits. Him being mafia. NO MATTER WHAT.

-_-

citi.zen

2509 Posts

April 09 2010 16:08 GMT

#2248

The math is this: Caller is 100% lying. Look, there are still some votes for me. Why don't you vote for me again, see what color I turn tonight and settle this one way or another. I'll vote for myself again to help the count. Then lynch Caller if the game is still going. It beats a no-lynch, at least you have clear information.

citi.zen

2509 Posts

April 09 2010 16:13 GMT

#2249

A vote-count would still be nice.

JeeJee

Canada5652 Posts

April 09 2010 16:20 GMT

#2250

On April 09 2010 23:55 JeeJee wrote:
to be fair i haven't gotten your clear stance on citizen's roleclaim lie. what do you make of it? at least answer this; i have done my best to explain my position as clearnly as possible.

this still stands unanswered by opz, which irks me the most because this is what i base my whole argument on citizen's lynch about.
it has been standing unanswered this entire time, even after i started ignoring all of my other points/queries in an effort to get your official stance on this one so there is no confusion with other points, yet somehow this still remains unanswered.
please please PLEASE answer this. give me your official statement here. I have done my best to answer every single thing about my position and i believe i have done so. please return the favor by answering this one thing

citi.zen

2509 Posts

April 09 2010 16:28 GMT

#2251

On April 10 2010 01:20 JeeJee wrote:

Show nested quote +

Well, your argument is actually two pronged: you point out my role seems inconsistent with your view of the PGO. You also say this is more inconsistent than Caller's play, and that my claim only makes sense for a red, not a townies, as opposed to Caller's claims. You thus want to vote for me instead of him.

Keeping this in mind, please answer this bit:

On April 10 2010 00:43 citi.zen wrote:

Show nested quote +

On April 10 2010 00:37 JeeJee wrote:

On April 10 2010 00:24 citi.zen wrote:

On April 09 2010 22:33 JeeJee wrote:

On April 09 2010 22:22 citi.zen wrote:

On April 09 2010 22:08 JeeJee wrote:

On April 09 2010 12:58 citi.zen wrote:

On April 09 2010 12:25 JeeJee wrote:
sorry, it seems i have missed communicating one very important point.

we have confirmation that citizen lied. we do NOT have confirmation that caller lied (at least not yet). This is what boggles me the most here, that we are voting for a 'maybe' over a 'for sure'.

let me elaborate -- citizen claims his ability is to counter nukes. Then he claims his ability is PGO. One of these is a lie. We know this. You bring up the point that he may have left out the piece about killing@night because he wanted to entice a nuke steal. I pointed out how this cannot be the case because he did not wait for night post before he changed his claim.

also

True...Citizen would of done better claiming his nukes were stolen. Smart boy, smart boy....

actually i believe this would paint him in an even worse light if it were possible -- after his claim of PGO, someone presumably visits him at night and does not die. This would just mean another lie.

Townies have no reason to do the lies that citizen has made. The ONLY reason that I can see, you have outlined: enticing a nuke steal. However, the events that transpired after rule out this possibility completely. In fact, they actually fit in very well with a mafia choosing to claim PGO in order to stop your FoS from becoming a reality. maybe you actually nabbed a mafia there and caused him to panic?

oh and finally, one nuke was stolen from me

also, re: this latest replacement, i guess this means waiting for a d3 modkill isn't an option, so we are back to discussing citizen vs caller. i'm trying my hardest to explain my position, and i'm pretty sure my judgment is correct here.

No - you do not know I lied. You assume it, based on what you think the definition of the paranoid gun owner is in some other game.

Read every post myself or Inf made - we never claimed to have the ability to hit any night checker. Ever. Had we intended the role claim to be a deterrent for a DT you think we might have mentioned that part, no?

Also, you claim you do not know Caller lied yet? So you think he is both Israel and Japan? And you find it rational for him to claim DT to "stay low and not be a mafia target"? Please explain to me how this laying low business works - I thought the mafia wants to kill DTs, no?

The longer this is going on the more I think you are red. A rational person would not miss these simple facts and constantly try to distort them.

reading the thread will prevent posts like these i'm afraid
but as long as we're absolutely clear, i will adress this too, although I really shouldn't have to. However, at this time, nobody can afford being misinformed so I will lay this out too.

first of all, understand the context in which this post was made. me and opz were debating about caller, and i had fully addressed my suspicions of his lies about his anti nuke arsenal as well as his country. would you like me to pull up the post? after this was taken into account, i stated, as I am stating here again, that the main reason I suspect you over caller is because you lied about your role whereas caller did not. (at this point actually opz brought up that caller may have in fact lied about his role too, but upon further inspection this was not the case -- if it were, my entire position would have to be rethought. I have already said many times caller's claim is sketchy and I would lynch him in an instant UNTIL you showed up. This is very important which is why I'm stating it for the umpteenth time so we're all on the same page here)

The other bit about the PGO -- it is an assumption, and a perfectly valid one. Just as a vigi kills at night, so does a PGO kill his visitors. It is what the role is about. It's not just mafia scum. Every single mafia site agrees.

ECNet:
http://wiki.ecnet.org/wiki/Mafia

Paranoid gun owner – If the paranoid gun owner is targeted at night for anything, whether it's a kill, investigation, or even protection, the paranoid gun owner must kill whomever targeted him

Neoseeker
http://wikiguides.neoseeker.com/wiki/The_Mafia_Game/Army_Veteran

Perhaps a role used more frequently than the Army Veteran role, a Paranoid Gun Owner will automatically kill anyone that targets them at night for any reason, whether positive or negative.

Mafiascum
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Paranoid_Gun_Owner

The Paranoid Gun Owner, similar to the Army Veteran, involuntarily kills anyone who targets him during the night, regardless of alignment. He can be a liability to the Town for this reason, as he indiscriminately kills Cops, Doctors, etc.

Would you like me to keep going?
This isn't a matter of opinion. You lied about your role.

Your entire argument is based on the belief that Infund lied when he mentioned the name Ace gave to his ability. It's impossible for me to justify something Ace did - he defined people's roles as he saw fit in this game.

At the very least admit that neither me nor Infund explicitly claimed to have the ability to kill any night visitors. All we claimed, consistently, was to have the ability to retaliate. There was no explicit attempt to deter any DT from role-checking.

I disagree. if I were to claim vigilante, I don't have to specifically claim that my role is killing people at night. There may be game-specific restrictions like I cannot kill on the first night, or can only kill twice or whatever, but either way I can kill people at night.
Likewise for PGO -- by stating you are PGO, you are explicitly claiming your ability to kill any night visitor indiscriminately. maybe the restriction is you can only do it once then revert to townie (a popular variation) but the underlying mechanics is always there.

as a sidenote to opz -- i have only been skimming you versus lmnop for the reason that if my judgment is correct here, there is at least one mafia between lmnop/iaaan, and very likely both of them are. am i reading this correctly, did he accuse you of being mafia?

The vigilante comparison is not entirely fair, but yes, in the end I wish Ace would have chosen a different name for my ability. In the end it would be quite unfortunate it the town lost because of it.

On another note - you continue to say Caller is being consistent. Please explain how his his claim that he was trying not to be a mafia target and lay low squares with claiming to be a cop, twice. Why did he think that would make him less of a target?

to be fair, i'm not saying caller is being consistent. I'm saying he's the lesser of the 2 evils because at least he hasn't provably lied about his role in a way that doesn't make sense for a townie but does make sense for a mafia trying to dodge a FoS placed by opz
or, would you like to pull up my relevant posts so that i may have a clearer idea of what you mean by saying "you keep saying caller is being consistent"?
like i said, nobody can afford being misinformed here

How does it make sense for a townie to claim Cop so as not to be a mafia target? This only makes sense for a red - since they are not afraid to be killed at night.

haster27

Taiwan809 Posts

April 09 2010 16:34 GMT

#2252

~OpZ~// I don't see much wrong with voting LMNOP so I will change my vote later on if no new development occurs. It'll actually be interesting to see who Caller "confirms" tomorrow. However, I would also like to state that since the town is at permanent lylo position, Caller/citizen issue needs to be addressed sooner or later; and I like to get rid of Caller while we still hold the Mason advantage (lol at LMNOP). I'll wait until aTeddyBear makes his vote, or it is about ~4 KSP before switching my vote to LMNOP.

aTeddyBear, please make your vote within ~4 KSP. I love how you eagerly volunteered into this game, yet immediately starts lurking just like d3_crescentia. Perhaps his Mafia brethrens telling him to pursue the same strategy?

I think nobody would have problem voting for LMNOP since I, ~Opz~, Abenson, JeeJee, and citizen (perhaps) can form a majority.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

April 09 2010 16:54 GMT

#2253

d3 is back, aTeddybear isn't going to play for him.

haster27

Taiwan809 Posts

April 09 2010 16:56 GMT

#2254

Eh. Still, I really wish d3 would speak up since he has come back. He is missing all the debate, and how he votes could be game-deciding.

haster27

Taiwan809 Posts

April 09 2010 17:02 GMT

#2255

Actually either laaan or d3_crescentia could decide to join us, and since one vote is all we need, what about launching a fake nuke to extend the day rather than rushing to switch to LMNOP when deadline draws near? I would like to hear everyone's opinion on 1) vote switch from Caller to LMNOP, and 2) extending the day further.

flamewheel

FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts

April 09 2010 17:17 GMT

#2256

On April 10 2010 00:53 Ace wrote:
hey guys I'm probably gonna be partying for ohhh the next 72 hours with like 15 women so umm...if I'm not here the game is on pause. Flamewheel? Qatol? L? anyone wanna mod for me once I disappear later tonight? ^_^

I'll hold onto it.

flamewheel

FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts

April 09 2010 17:22 GMT

#2257

On April 10 2010 01:13 citi.zen wrote:
A vote-count would still be nice.

I'll get to it, but I also have to figure out when day ends. Just bear with me on the posts since I don't have a very loose time schedule. I'm going to go back now and read starting from the last day post to get a time frame and vote count for everything, so that could take a while.

citi.zen

2509 Posts

April 09 2010 17:25 GMT

#2258

Note to self - this guy love lightning.

JeeJee

Canada5652 Posts

April 09 2010 17:51 GMT

#2259

hold on let me get this straight
if we're in lylo, lmnop has to be mafia, and if we're not, it's okay if we fuck up since it's not lylo?
my question is, why do you ignore a lying roleclaimer in favor of someone who may not be mafia at all, just because if he isn't, we can make a mistake? do you realize this means this time next day will be the same except we will have one less townie arguing? and instead of 1/3 town being mafia, it will be almost half?

@citizen i have all the answers to that post; i am surprised you misinterpretted my position yet again, but i have to run to a meeting. i will be back in 1hr10min +/-10min, well before any nuke deadline. so BE HERE

flamewheel

FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts

April 09 2010 17:59 GMT

#2260

On April 10 2010 02:25 citi.zen wrote:
Note to self - this guy love lightning.

Damn straight.

Oh, and your vote count...
+ Show Spoiler [Hidden to save space!] +

Vote Count:

Votes for a player:

Caller (3)
Haster27
~~citi.zen~~
~~~OpZ~~~
Abenson
citi.zen

citi.zen (2)
Caller
~~~OpZ~~~
~~Iaaan~~
~~citi.zen~~
JeeJee

~OpZ~ (1)
Elemenope

Elemenope (1)
~OpZ~

No lynch (1)
Iaaan

Nonvoters: (1)
d3_crescentia

Votes by player:

Haster 27 voted for:
Caller

citi.zen voted for:
Caller
citi.zen
Caller

Caller voted for:
citi.zen

~OpZ~ voted for:
citi.zen
Caller
Elemenope

Iaaan voted for:
citi.zen
No Lynch

JeeJee voted for:
citi.zen

Abenson voted for:
Caller

Elemenope voted for:
~OpZ~

Oh, and Abenson's nuke was fake, so I won't bother to go back and write a post up for it.
~OpZ~'s nuke will hit Iaaan on April 10th, 5:01 KST
Day 4 now ends on April 10th, 5:01 KST

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