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On February 14 2012 17:22 EchelonTee wrote:
I don't know if I have the credibility to be discussing this, feel free to let me know if I'm out of my place and I'll step out, but here's my 2c.
During the actual game, it makes sense that the host's word is law, but in post-game discussion, is it true that the host can dole out warnings and bans? During the game, redFF wasn't actively insulting people or hurting the game, though he had a difficult role to pull off that he invested a lot of time into. He didn't criticize Greymist/iGrok's setup until postgame, which is the time for such discussion... even though he was being belligerent, it was not excessively so.
There are probably a lot of implicit rules in the ban list that are known to people who've been around, but because these things are not explicitly listed out, it's sort of nebulous. If it is standard that host's word is always law, or that direct insults result in warnings, that's fine, but as is redFF didn't do anything crazy, though the rage was quite fiery. Besides, IMO, dictating that someone can't post in a thread is a bit highhanded, unless the thread is spiraling out of control.
Up to the hosts/ban list mods, of course.
This guy knows whats up.
I played my ass of for 5 days in that game in an attempt to get a win and then when the game ended i found out it was nigh impossible. Yeah I was pissed. Yeah i raged in thread which was wrong but I had reasons for it and laid them out fairly well (and still haven't really been responded too satisfactorily).
If you wanna warn me for getting emotional then I get it but I think its a damn fucking shame, especially as it all happened post game and there is nothing in the ban list op that talks about this.
Next time I'll just play like someone like Sinani and post once a day and not actually care about games.
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Red stuck it out until the end of the game and I respect that, and as I said to him in PM:
I knew you were angry and venting, that's why I warned you privately. You're too good of a player to pull this shit. Why do you think I gave you by far the hardest role in the game?
But, when the post game discussion consists of:
+ Show Spoiler +On February 14 2012 12:34 redFF wrote:
i don't give a shit about the result i give a shit about bad mods wasting peoples time On February 14 2012 12:22 redFF wrote:
yeah shut up greymist On February 14 2012 12:17 redFF wrote:
NEVER LET IGROK MOD A GAME AGAIN On February 14 2012 11:45 redFF wrote:
fuck you for wasting my time with this shit, win-con should always be scum outnumber or equal town On February 14 2012 11:52 redFF wrote:
biggest fucking waste of time On February 14 2012 11:57 redFF wrote:
LITERALLY 30 PAGES OF POINTLESSNESS On February 14 2012 11:58 redFF wrote:
can we get some people who aren't pants on head retarded to come agree with me
Then something is wrong. and this is not even all. The post game is a place to cool down/ talk calmly about the game, not to flame relentlessly.
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It wasn't flaming. I was angry yes but I'm fairly sure most of those posts are at least somewhat valid (apart from NEVER LET IGROK MOD A GAME AGAIN and yeah shut up greymist)
I'm sorry about that but I think my reaction was at least understandable, and I'm fairly sure I'm not the only person who would have reacted in the way I did.
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criticizing the setup is fine, being a douchebag about it isn't.
Sure, things get heated in these games. That just shows we care. I don't really have an opinion one way or the other about a formal punishment in this case. I like redFF, but I also know he blows up and can become quite abusive when he doesn't agree with something. The nice way to handle this is to simply ask red not to do shit like this, try to keep it civil.
No idea if we need a formal warning on top of that. I also very much respect iGrok's hosting ability, his games are usually very fun to play.
I'm sorry about that but I think my reaction was at least understandable, and I'm fairly sure I'm not the only person who would have reacted in the way I did.
iGrok did contact at least me, and I think other people to discuss the situation that had come up. He really tried to make the best of it. You may not agree with it, but he did try his best to reach the right conclusion. I agree with how he handled the game. Clearly you do not.
So yeah, your reaction of getting mad was understandable, but can you just like... not be a dick to people next time you get mad?
If I had to vote on it, I'd simply ask redFF (and he already has to an extent) to apologize for the unnecessarily harsh reaction and then we can move on, agreeing to disagree. Fuck warnings 
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
If you're upset, close TL Mafia for a while. Punch a pillow. Beat somebody in StarCraft. Eat a bagel.
Don't flame the mod. I barely care that the game was not winnable. Be polite when saying so. I'm all for giving you a warning.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
On February 09 2012 15:27 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I am extremely sorry for my actions. It was a poor decision that was not made very rationally. I should have PM'd iGrok. I will take whatever ban he wants.
I don't know how much I will visit TL for a while, please just listen to iGrok and I'll sit out my games when stuff is over and I get the chance.
Once again, I'm really sorry.
-Meapak
There you have it. Standard inactivity ban.
On February 05 2012 13:18 Erandorr wrote:
Sitting out BCs Game.
Also moar Mafia drama please
Noted late, but okay.
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United States2556 Posts
I will add my humble opinion. Red over reacted in tone and choice of words but he did do so because he cares and he broke no RULE. He was simply being a jerk to put it simply. It isnt helpful etc and the downsides to that behavior have been discussed and pointed out.
Give him a conditional warning that states this warning assumes your current behavior continues. Put some fine point that says if the behavior has not been repeated for X days the the warning is null and erased from the record.
Its more of a example for the future. Having hosted games on other forums with a much more standard format I can atest to the amount of work that igrok put in. This game was not a bastard game or anything like that and as a community we cant turn a blind eye to written abuse directed at anyone that put time and effort in.
Red, my bad if this sounds like me giving an opinion or judgement on something I shouldn't but, respectfully, I nelieve you crossed a line. Just barely, and with reason, but it was crossed.
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Let's put all emotions aside.
What's left?
Redff saying that he played a game that was close to unwinnable for couple of days.
That's the point.
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On February 15 2012 00:47 vaderseven wrote:
Red, my bad if this sounds like me giving an opinion or judgement on something I shouldn't but, respectfully, I nelieve you crossed a line. Just barely, and with reason, but it was crossed.
you don't need my permission to talk about this...
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lol.. Igrok has to run and hide behind the ban list because someone calls him out on his bullshit.
and its business as usual for you guys sweep that shit under the rug and pretend its not a problem then turn around and give red a "warning" to stroke your fractured ego and make yourself feel like "reds" the problem.
We cant have people calling out hosts that are fucking people over and wasting peoples time.
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Coag, I swear it's been months since I've seen you post in this forum with something not bitching about moderation.
-redacted-
To elaborate we are arguing a fine line here and you don't even have a valid opinion to discuss. This is about a complex set up that had an unexpected problem and RedFF being mad about that and whether he crossed a very gray line in doing so.
The comparison situation that was made was Showtime! when he just insulted the shit out of pyrrhuloxia after pyrr hosted the first Smurf game. If I remember right, Showtime was incredibly more disparaging and insulting towards the host and that was also a different time when hosts were few and far between, so it was even worse for him to do.
This time the insults were much much more tame and in an overall different environment and people are just deciding what punishment if any that RedFF deserves.
Personally, I'd probably just not the assholery in some form of unofficial warning and no to do it again. I am generally way more relaxed about punishing though. And hopefully an apology (not for his legitimate gripes, but for the personal attacks) would suffice.
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United States22154 Posts
On February 15 2012 05:32 Coagulation wrote:
lol.. Igrok has to run and hide behind the ban list because someone calls him out on his bullshit.
and its business as usual for you guys sweep that shit under the rug and pretend its not a problem then turn around and give red a "warning" to stroke your fractured ego and make yourself feel like "reds" the problem.
We cant have people calling out hosts that are fucking people over and wasting peoples time.
1.) I know you hate the ban list, but refrain from bashing it at every opportunity please, seriously, its rather tiresome, we get it.
2.) Calling out a host is fine, what people are taking issue with was how it was done, there's a difference between calling someone out and being a dick. I won't comment on whether I think redFF crossed that line, but that's whats up for discussion, not whether it is ok to criticize a host. Let me put it this way, if redFF had spent three pages saying "IGROK IS A FAG, FUCK HIM!" he'd 100% get a ban, no matter how "justified" it was. Whats being argued here is whether what he did merits some type of action or not.
EDIT: RoL, don't be a dick to coag please, hell I'd be kind of nice if we could all talk to each other like reasonable human beings, god forbid.
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DONT START NUTTIN' WONT BE NUTTIN'
-DMX
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Nigger, nigger, nigger, nigger, nigger, nigger, Please.
- Eazy-E
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United States2556 Posts
On February 15 2012 04:29 redFF wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 00:47 vaderseven wrote:
Red, my bad if this sounds like me giving an opinion or judgement on something I shouldn't but, respectfully, I nelieve you crossed a line. Just barely, and with reason, but it was crossed.
you don't need my permission to talk about this...
I was more just not wanting to 'gang up' on you. Trying to show I felt your pain even though I have the stance I have.
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For future reference, if you have a problem with how the host is doing things, PM foolishness, flamewheel, or myself. There's no reason to go crazy in the thread. It doesn't matter if the game was over or not, the host is still king (or queen) of the thread.
Final note
The host of your game has the first say on what happens in your game. If you have a problem with how your game is being run or how another player is treating you in that game, talk to the host first. You should only come here if you cannot resolve the situation by talking to the host of your game.
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what does that quote have to do with anything
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You had a problem with how your game was being run. You clearly couldn't resolve it by talking to iGrok. You should have come to flamewheel.
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EPT
