TL Mafia XVIII - Page 81

On February 17 2010 15:08 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Ugh I went back and re-read starting from page 14 until about page 30 (so far) and I've gone through every bs post, stupid argument, unbelievable accusation etc...

People who should be looked at because they were misleading in day 1:

L:
-Strongly advocates clue analysis and explains why its good in this game (pg 16)
-Forcing clues to match Ace as a suspect (pg 17)
-Shows us he sucks at math and doesn't realize that 8 + 8 = 16, not 18 (pg 19)
-BC openly asks why L likes clue analysis, and L claims he has a "sterling" record (pg 21)
-Still pushing for the clues against Ace (pg 23)
-Wants to kill the moonlight rider, not necessarily Ace (pg 24)
-Believes that the moonlight rider might be 789 (pg 24)
-Believes the clues of fire, angels and radiance may point to Empyrean (pg 25)
-Still thinks Ace and Mystlord are the two strongest lynch candidates (pg 25)
-Claims that the clues are so strong and we must utilize them (pg 25)

Chezinu:
-Just plain annoying to read (pg 16 - current)

Bill Murray
-No explanation required(pg 14 - pg 30)

People who should be looked at who are extremely useless from Day 1 (first half or so and in no particular order):

Iaaan:
-useless post implicating BC (pg 15)
-Agrees with meeple about something (pg 15)
-More useless gibberish (pg 16)
-Feels that the mafia families are the best weapons for the town (pg 17)
-Argues with Ace that clues aren't primary, but claims Ace said they shouldn't be looked at in the first place (pg 17)
-Insists that L's clue analysis is definite and points to Ace (pg 18)
-More useless posts (pg 19)
-More useless posts (pg 20)
-Again... (pg 23)

Meeple:
-Everything :facepalm: (pg 14)
-Twice again (pg 16)
-Arguing with Ace asking for suspects and believes clues should be looked at heavily (pg 17)
-Meeple then tries to give us a variable lesson after Abenson (pg 17)
-More useless posts between him and Absenson (pg 18)
-More useless posts about clues (pg 18)
-More useless posts towards Chezinu, as well as informing us that we should hung mafia, no shit (pg 19)


Sidespring:
-Weak clue analysis against Ver (pg 15)
-Agrees not to lynch immediately based upon clues, but gives no effort in aiding discussion of any sort (pg 16)

Abenson:
-Agrees with Ace, only because everyone "should" agree with Ace. (pg 16)
-Let us know Chezinu PM'ed him on the 10th, thanks Abenson (pg 16)
-Throwing out more useless information about a past mafia game, and trying to teach us about variables (pg 17)
-Can't think of anything helpful to say, so he lets us all know (pg 21)


Fulgrim:
-Comes in and talks about how clues are important blah blah (pg 18)
-Votes for Ver because he has the best posts so far, congrats Ver! (pg 18)
-Won't vote for Ace because he's not accusing anybody (pg 18)


People who should be looked at with a careful eye, not too suspicious, just not really helping...

Cyanmachine:
-Claims he read everything, but never saw the list of people who were running for mayor, or their posts? (pg 21)
-Still unsure as to who's running for mayor, proving he didn't read shit (pg 22)

Faronel:
-Provides no contribution and rehashes everything that has been said in the past 8 pages (pg 22)
-Made a newb mistake and edited a post, probably just a newb mistake (pg 22)

Fishball:
-Always up for seeing BC dead, no reason (pg 15)

[NyC]Hobbes:
-Rambling about how clues help the town and that it worked in a previous game (pg 20)
-Rambles about how we should use clue analysis in the late game (pg 21)
-Supports citi.zen for mayor because of his performance last game (pg 23)
-Does not support Ace, ver, or L because of shaky analysis and finger pointing (pg 23)
-Wants to kill someone based upon clues and clues alone, that person being Ace (pg 24)
-Believes that going back after Ace is killed will give us insight about the players who accused him (pg 24)
-Notes that killing someone like Chezinu is useless for the town, if our only reason is because they are annoying (pg 24)

MasterDana:
-Ran for mayor on a shitty platform (pg 14)
-Makes an even shittier post right after (pg 14)


I'm not suggesting anybody here is mafia, but they have ties to every player who was killed and have been contributing constantly to the derailment of this game within a 16 page period (except for the top three).

On February 17 2010 15:36 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:
[P.S.- I'm extremely curious as to how you define the word "rambling", when you say that my 2 and 4 line posts are rambling while my 5 paragraph one isn't.

On February 17 2010 15:08 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Ugh I went back and re-read starting from page 14 until about page 30 (so far) and I've gone through every bs post, stupid argument, unbelievable accusation etc...

People who should be looked at because they were misleading in day 1:

L:
-Strongly advocates clue analysis and explains why its good in this game (pg 16)
-Forcing clues to match Ace as a suspect (pg 17)
-Shows us he sucks at math and doesn't realize that 8 + 8 = 16, not 18 (pg 19)
-BC openly asks why L likes clue analysis, and L claims he has a "sterling" record (pg 21)
-Still pushing for the clues against Ace (pg 23)
-Wants to kill the moonlight rider, not necessarily Ace (pg 24)
-Believes that the moonlight rider might be 789 (pg 24)
-Believes the clues of fire, angels and radiance may point to Empyrean (pg 25)
-Still thinks Ace and Mystlord are the two strongest lynch candidates (pg 25)
-Claims that the clues are so strong and we must utilize them (pg 25)

Chezinu:
-Just plain annoying to read (pg 16 - current)

Bill Murray
-No explanation required(pg 14 - pg 30)

People who should be looked at who are extremely useless from Day 1 (first half or so and in no particular order):

Iaaan:
-useless post implicating BC (pg 15)
-Agrees with meeple about something (pg 15)
-More useless gibberish (pg 16)
-Feels that the mafia families are the best weapons for the town (pg 17)
-Argues with Ace that clues aren't primary, but claims Ace said they shouldn't be looked at in the first place (pg 17)
-Insists that L's clue analysis is definite and points to Ace (pg 18)
-More useless posts (pg 19)
-More useless posts (pg 20)
-Again... (pg 23)

Meeple:
-Everything :facepalm: (pg 14)
-Twice again (pg 16)
-Arguing with Ace asking for suspects and believes clues should be looked at heavily (pg 17)
-Meeple then tries to give us a variable lesson after Abenson (pg 17)
-More useless posts between him and Absenson (pg 18)
-More useless posts about clues (pg 18)
-More useless posts towards Chezinu, as well as informing us that we should hung mafia, no shit (pg 19)


Sidespring:
-Weak clue analysis against Ver (pg 15)
-Agrees not to lynch immediately based upon clues, but gives no effort in aiding discussion of any sort (pg 16)

Abenson:
-Agrees with Ace, only because everyone "should" agree with Ace. (pg 16)
-Let us know Chezinu PM'ed him on the 10th, thanks Abenson (pg 16)
-Throwing out more useless information about a past mafia game, and trying to teach us about variables (pg 17)
-Can't think of anything helpful to say, so he lets us all know (pg 21)


Fulgrim:
-Comes in and talks about how clues are important blah blah (pg 18)
-Votes for Ver because he has the best posts so far, congrats Ver! (pg 18)
-Won't vote for Ace because he's not accusing anybody (pg 18)


People who should be looked at with a careful eye, not too suspicious, just not really helping...

Cyanmachine:
-Claims he read everything, but never saw the list of people who were running for mayor, or their posts? (pg 21)
-Still unsure as to who's running for mayor, proving he didn't read shit (pg 22)

Faronel:
-Provides no contribution and rehashes everything that has been said in the past 8 pages (pg 22)
-Made a newb mistake and edited a post, probably just a newb mistake (pg 22)

Fishball:
-Always up for seeing BC dead, no reason (pg 15)

[NyC]Hobbes:
-Rambling about how clues help the town and that it worked in a previous game (pg 20)
-Rambles about how we should use clue analysis in the late game (pg 21)
-Supports citi.zen for mayor because of his performance last game (pg 23)
-Does not support Ace, ver, or L because of shaky analysis and finger pointing (pg 23)
-Wants to kill someone based upon clues and clues alone, that person being Ace (pg 24)
-Believes that going back after Ace is killed will give us insight about the players who accused him (pg 24)
-Notes that killing someone like Chezinu is useless for the town, if our only reason is because they are annoying (pg 24)

MasterDana:
-Ran for mayor on a shitty platform (pg 14)
-Makes an even shittier post right after (pg 14)


I'm not suggesting anybody here is mafia, but they have ties to every player who was killed and have been contributing constantly to the derailment of this game within a 16 page period (except for the top three).

On February 17 2010 15:25 Chezinu wrote:
Mafia 1:

Hitlist:
1. Ace
2. Zato-1
3. Bloodyc0bbler

Ace’s Killer:
Gasoline and match
Fun thinking about terrorizing town in both darkness and light

Zato-1’s Killer:
Agile
Yet powerful enough to knock Zato down with an array of sharp objects
Then escapes by creating a hole in the wall…

Bloodyc0bbler’s killer:
Is able to hide a crane…

Mafia 2:

Hitlist:
1. Fulgrim
2. d3_crescentia
3. ? – Ver claims he got hit (I have a theory that they hit Bloodyc0bbler)

Fulgrim’s Killer:
Natural killer… (I’m thinking of the profile with the white seed plant)

d3_crescentia’s Killer:
two men fighting. One man scrawled graffiti all over the other man’s house. The two men had a cold menacing glare.. (were they possessed by someone who used their special eye abilities?

Bloodyc0bbler’s true Killer:
Metal pike out of his stomach (remind me of aliens)… he was a sacrifice to the gods…

On February 17 2010 17:34 johnnyspazz wrote:
I think killer 5 is definitely pointing towards either ohN or Phrujbaz. The connection to flying white particles and their profile pictures is pretty strong in my opinion. Abenson is also kind of related because his profile picture has a bunch of white pawns. That's all I could find in the profiles that related to the killer 5.
I also think the killer that created a hole behind Zato-1 could be related to citi.zen because his quote means "I shall either find a way or make one." He had to escape after the killer so maybe he made a way by creating a hole?

On February 17 2010 11:43 redtooth wrote:
i think you guys are doing this wrong. but the key word there is think. i'm making a few key assumptions so let me list it out right now.

Assumption 1: Incognito will not give clues on one person on back-to-back day posts.
that means the fire clue for Ace's killer is not related to the two fire/flammable clues from page one (the oiled house and the thrown torch). this does not, however, mean that people with fire related profiles are any less suspicious. it just means that there is a higher chance that one of the fire clues pointed to that person.

Assumption 2: incognito has not changed the way he is doing clues
that means he takes one (read: ONE) thing about a profile and makes a persona about it. read this for more information on what said persona is and how he tends to do it. that means that finding multiple things related to a clue on a single profile does not help your argument. we can safely assume that the persona won't be something too detailed (like that song of the sphinx thingy...). it also means that there is one persona per mafia so concentrate on identifying that persona and behavior or thematic elements associated with that persona.

taking these two assumptions into mind as you go clue analyzing should drastically approach the way you guys are doing this.

On February 17 2010 12:33 Ver wrote:
The mafia most definitely did not blindly follow me; if they did Meeple and Mystlord would have died too. It's most likely:

a) Their suspicions coincided with mine on Ace and BC
b) They liked my analysis on Ace and BC and did not like it on Meeple/Mystlord
c) Mystlord/Meeple are mafia and the side(s) they weren't on simply didn't target them

Obviously the purpose of the lists was to get them killed. BC I was simply wrong about, Ace I was not sure but he was adding a lot of chaos to the town and not doing much good. Frankly the outcome of the day basically says nothing about my alignment. On the other hand, if you saw 3 reds from 1 family die and 0-1 from another, then you should start getting very suspicious.

If I was on a mafia team and I couldn't hit a single mafia or useful blue I would be uh...very ashamed haha (it's far easier knowing the identity of 9 players). Have you looked at the hitlists of games when I was mafia?

On February 17 2010 15:36 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:


Congratulations, you've managed to violently misrepresent nearly everything I've said this game so far. In response to each of your bullet points:

1- I stand by the idea that clues can help the town, nothing much to say here except that believing that clues help the town as much as they help the mafia, and backing it up with a previous example doesn't really strike me as a suspicious action.

2- You've entirely missed the point of this post, which is that discussing clues is helpful all game because it gives us more information on people who post analysis and arguments.

3- I withdrew my vote from citizen once he became inactive and his play began to differ from the play last game, and, since Ace turned out green, I'm not wrong that L's finger pointing at him was based on shaky analysis, am I?

4- Urgh. I don't even know where to start with this one. I made a number of points in this post, the main gist of it being that the first lynch is essentially random, and that following clues is better than following nothing, with the added bonus that it leaves a paper trail. I didn't say that the person we should lynch was Ace and only Ace, I said that since the current clue consensus at the time seemed to point to Ace, and he was generating the most discussion, I'd use him as the example to be discussed in my post. I had noticed some people posting arguments that Ace as a veteran player needed to be kept around, and, in order to get my point across without a bunch of people posting "but we NEED Ace!!! OMG what r u thinking!" and entirely missing the point of the post, I posted an analysis of why Ace was not sacrosanct. I then continued to support my previous argument that analyzing clues produces paper trails that can track mafia.

5- Killing someone because they are annoying is completely pointless, regardless of who they are. Since someone had said they didn't want to waste a lynch, I was using an example to support them.

I would love to know why my posting my analysis of the game is constantly contributing to the derailment of the thread. I would also love for you to expand on the "connections" I have to every one of the dead players. If you think my posting or behavior is suspicious, give me a legitimate argument to defend against, don't just post my name in a list of people you want everyone to "watch with a careful eye" while misrepresenting everything I've said in bullet points.

P.S.- I'm extremely curious as to how you define the word "rambling", when you say that my 2 and 4 line posts are rambling while my 5 paragraph one isn't.

Since the current consensus on the clues seems to point to Ace, I'll use him for an example. Regardless of which way Ace flips, I don't think getting rid of him is necessarily a bad idea. If we were to lynch Ace and he flips red, we'll gain interesting insight into how Incognito's clues are going to work for this game, and we'll gain some information about those who are defending him so vehemently. If he flips green, we'll know that the clues aren't as obvious as they seem, and we could get some information from reading back over the posts of people who were accusing him.

On February 14 2010 13:32 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:
I agree with citizen that clues help the town at least as much as the mafia, if you look at Incognito's last game, clue analysis provided most of the incriminating posts by mafia members the town used to get them lynched.

On February 14 2010 13:45 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:


I agree that actually acting on clues should be saved for late-game, but discussing them is helpful all game, as more discussion early game=more paper trail late game

On February 14 2010 16:05 Ace wrote:
I'd vote for Ver or BC because I have more trust in them than any other candidate. My rule for elected positions is to vote for good, sensible players that won't do anything radical unless something out of the blue pops up and gives me a different reason.

@Hobbes: If someone keeps egging me on based on clues, then I die and flip green you should lynch the accuser. You forgot to mention that in your post. Everyone should be held accountable. If we let people point fingers and an innocent gets lynched and they get away with an "oops", then everyone is going to do it.

On February 17 2010 02:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
For anyone in the general know how, and medics feel free to not prot me. However, Ver has tried to guess my role, as well as actively pm people this game. Both are actions Ver rarely takes. Read earlier in the thread and you will find that he "RC'd" to BM. I will spend some time once ive showered going over his posts and analyzing him, but he is not as safe an option to prot any more than I am.

On February 17 2010 03:25 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


Maybe you haven't played enough. But Ver does not like playing mafia in Pm's typically, nor do I. Just showerd, so I will go compare his posting to previous games, but he is playing very as per his normal play.

On February 17 2010 06:27 LucasWoJ wrote:



Okay, I've just about caught up with this thread. This post is egregiously incorrect in its categorization of Ver's behavior during Mafia games. Ver frequently starts off a mafia game by posting two or three huge posts, and then communicates by PMs at night. This has been the case in every game I've ever played with Ver, and he's not playing any differently. When mafia, he usually posts less often day 2 and day 3, and when townie, Ver has tended towards PM'ing a specific group. In previous games, he's also tried guessing my role multiple times via PMs. That Ver might not like playing through PMs does not prevent him from doing so, and he does.

I apologize for being so inactive. I was away all of Saturday and most of Sunday. When I came back, I had 55 or so pages to tackle, and it was just overwhelming because of the amount of garbage in the thread which resulted from many individuals intentionally and rather blatantly ignoring the response posts of those whom they accused. Just an example: Ace is often accused of being mafia, and even though he is not contributing as much as he usually does, he does defend himself. Quite literally pages upon pages of responses to Ace's posts are complete misreadings of what he says. Everything ends up getting buried, and "inactives" like me get frustrated at how no responses can be made to those posts because there are forty pages to go. And this isn't just with Ace. Everyone's posts are being misinterpreted or skewed in some form or another, and more importantly, many are being overlooked (most notably, Ver's). Spammers respond to Chezinu's and BM's nonsense posts like they aren't half-assed troll attempts (chezinu more so than BM).

It's just all very depressing.

Perhaps on a more positive note, I really like the way "madnessman" is posting so far. Everything is well-thought out, and none of it is useless. Keep it up.


BM: Roleclaiming medic is an incredibly stupid move in this game, every bit as much as in any other game. As has already been pointed out, both mafia teams are simply trying to kill each other. In the event that one team is better than the other, the town should use medics to defend key mafia players, in order to be able to fulfill its own victory conditions. In this situation, the stronger mafia team will try to snipe the medics. Publicly RC'in medic makes this a rather easy task, even if he isn't necessarily confirmed (this is in general, not just redtooth), and takes away a stalling weapon the town still has.


I have contributed absolutely nothing this game, and I intend to help out now if I can.

On February 18 2010 00:30 789 wrote:
Also I threw this possibility out before. Is it possible that zato was killed by a bomb? This possibility wouldn't exclude BC getting double hit and ver (if he's telling the truth) absorbing a hit from last night. The hits would still add up to 6. He was killed when he opened his door ... by a bunch of metal sharp objects. Now I don't know how much you guys know about homemade bombs ... but if you want to increase their killing power you pack them with small metal objects to act as shrapnel. This could also explain the hole in the wall. There was a mafia member talked about in the paragraph ... but nothing of really important detail. He knocked on the door but was nowhere to be seen when zato opened it and was killed. I think its either possible that the mafia member used a bomb to kill him (for a clue) or it was a bomb of BC (from madhatter ability).

On February 17 2010 23:49 citi.zen wrote:
I just want to put this out there for future reference:

Followed by:


The person replying to this is LucaWoJ, a while after it was posted and in his first "real" attempt to contribute:


Nothing here incriminates LucasWoJ or Ver. I am not accusing them and I cannot tie a single clue to either of them. However, if one turns up red at any point in time, this exchange is worth keeping in mind. Consider it a "grouping" if you will.

On February 18 2010 00:48 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:


It definitely sounds like shrapnel or glass or something like that. But in previous games when someone has died form a mad hatter bomb, the day post says something at the end like "and mysteriously, on the other side of town, Infundibulum exploded in a shower of blood while he was sleeping!." So I'm pretty sure this is a mafia killer. We don't even know if BC placed a bomb last night anyway, though i wouldn't be too surprised if had placed it on Ver due to their disagreements in the thread.