Yes. That's the whole problem with trying to coordinate this early. We should be cautious until later in the game when things start to become clearer.

789

United States959 Posts

January 22 2010 04:43 GMT

#803

Well I'm going to be heading to bed here soon. I probably won't be posting much tomorrow - not really sure what can be done until more clues come in.

Zona

40426 Posts

January 22 2010 04:51 GMT

#804

I really think detectives or medics should NOT reveal themselves to anyone else at this point in the game, except for detectives who have confirmed who they're talking to is town (even then, a tiny godfather risk). The risk of revealing to a mafia member is there.

Actually I question the judgement of the detective that revealed him/herself to DrH, as there's no guarantee DrH is town.

I agree with this, however:

On January 22 2010 13:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
As far as meeple's voting power, I think he really needs to justify his votes.

Alternatively, we can demand that meeple reveals who he plans to vote for, then other townies adjust their votes so that his vote is effectively strength one.

For example, if players A and B are lynch candidates, and meeple wants to vote for A, have him vote for A, but also switch one NORMAL voter from A to B, then meeple has effectively added one vote to A (as A gets +3 -1 vote, and B gets +1 vote, so the difference between them is greater by one). Of course if there's 3 people up for lynch it gets more complicated.

Quickstriker, I would prefer if you didn't post in this thread - there's already so much to read and re-read when we want to re-examine things.

Finally, if there were NO medics - then if I were mafia, I would want to eliminate the people who are generating the most discussion, regardless of who they are suspicious of, just to stop the town from generating more information. However, since there are medics, the mafia need to guess who will be medic-protected and adjust accordingly. And they also can't eliminate all town members who discuss a lot, because then any remaining active players will be exposed as mafia. Still, I hope the medics keep this in mind.

There are some methods for coordination that don't require revealing. For example, one idea is that detectives rolecheck the player below them on the player list. If town, that would give them someone to talk to. However, I'm not convinced that using the rolecheck early is the way to go (it might be).

Abenson

Canada4122 Posts

January 22 2010 04:54 GMT

#805

let's see what happens tomorrow...
zzzzzzzzzzzz....

Zona

40426 Posts

January 22 2010 04:58 GMT

#806

I don't think the downside of incarcerating a blue is that much, until the point where medics, for whatever reason, become very good at predicting hits. Also, if you announce you are incarcerating someone in the thread, then the mafia know not to even attempt to kill them.

There is also a second use for incarceration, that is to incarcerate potential mafia when there's an odd number of mafia left, where if you are correct, kill power will go down by one. But with medics around, we won't be sure whether or not who you targetted was mafia. So using it for protection is probably a better idea, but do NOT announce beforehand.

789

United States959 Posts

January 22 2010 05:04 GMT

#807

I thought of one thing as I was getting into bed. Something we can do during the night phase to help the medics. We could compile a list of people likely to be hit by the mafia. This will be hard since we don't know who the mafia are as of yet. But we can do something. Anyone know how many medics there actually are?

My suggestion to the medics : pick those who are active. Losing an active person who ends up being a townie would be damaging. We need all the people analyzing clues we can get.

789

United States959 Posts

January 22 2010 05:08 GMT

#808

"? of ? Medics remain" that answers that.

Zona

40426 Posts

January 22 2010 05:09 GMT

#809

You know what, it may be useful for detectives to use at least one of the role checks early.

Right now, if they get a successful clue check, it's hard for them to convince the town of it without outing themselves, since we've already discussed the first set of clues ad nauseam without any conclusions. However, if they check someone and aren't too unlucky, they'll hit a town member and then can share with them safely (although the town member they contact will not necessarily be able to trust the detective). And if we establish a method of choosing which player to check (i.e. check the player below them in the player list) then they won't waste/overlap checks.

But the risk of that method is that if a mafia member is not contacted, then they will know the person above them is not a detective. Hmm. More to think about.

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

January 22 2010 05:12 GMT

#810

The medics might all protect the same player, which could be troublesome. I think detectives if they discover more than one medic with rolechecks should reveal the medics to eachother. The chance of it being godfather is 1/33rd right now, the benefits outweigh the risks imo.

Zona

40426 Posts

January 22 2010 05:12 GMT

#811

Okay - upside to some regular method of choosing who to check - no wasted checks.
Downside - risk revealing to mafia which players are NOT detectives.

Or, detectives can choose on their own who to check. In this case they reveal nothing to the mafia, but multiple people checking the same target will "waste" some checks. Although this might not entirely be a waste depending on how the game plays out.

510Sushi

Azerbaijan331 Posts

January 22 2010 05:13 GMT

#812

the detective really canot convince anyone without admitting his role

Zona

40426 Posts

January 22 2010 05:16 GMT

#813

Yes, I totally agree that detectives should reveal themselves to who they check if the check turns up town, the godfather risk is low. If detectives find more than one medic, yes they should coordinate. But the medic needs to be careful that mafia members aren't fishing to find who the medic is.

At this point without coordination, a medic protection overlap is possible, but remember that even if medic protection was evenly spread out they won't necessarily choose who the mafia will target. I don't think that we can create a plan that will really guarantee that a medic will stop a hit at this point in the game.

Actually, the more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion that detectives should use some of their role checks early in the game to build a base of people they can talk to privately.

Zona

40426 Posts

January 22 2010 05:17 GMT

#814

Yes - but if the detective has checked someone to be town, the detective can reveal him/herself safely to the person he/she has checked.
(Of course, the person being revealed to needs to be skeptical, as the "detective" who contacted them might be a mafia member.)

789

United States959 Posts

January 22 2010 05:19 GMT

#815

Remember the Godfather chooses what role he'll show up as on a role check. Hitting that 1/33 chance of role checking the godfather and it coming back clean and telling him you are a detective would be unfortunate.

789

United States959 Posts

January 22 2010 05:23 GMT

#816

Well I see you addressed that point. I guess it depends on how lucky the detectives are feeling. I'm sort of seeing your point about having 3 role checks total and parting with 1 wouldn't be too costly. The real price to pay would be losing a detective.

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

January 22 2010 05:34 GMT

#817

On January 22 2010 14:17 Zona wrote:
Yes - but if the detective has checked someone to be town, the detective can reveal him/herself safely to the person he/she has checked.
(Of course, the person being revealed to needs to be skeptical, as the "detective" who contacted them might be a mafia member.)

That's too risky. A mafia pretending to be detective would have to pray that they guessed the role right.

Let's say Ng5 PMs me and says "I rolechecked you and you were green, can you help me communicate with the town" and I'm actually a medic, I can be pretty sure he is mafia at that point. I think if a mafia is going to fake being detective, they'll do it in public or roleclaim to avoid a lynch.