EPTTL Mafia XV - Page 18
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L
Canada4732 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On October 23 2009 01:27 L wrote: So, does anyone remember a game in which Scamp played the silent clueless newbie part and had a role other than mafia? Umm actually no, only been mafia. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On October 22 2009 10:59 Tricode wrote: Look, it's a bad idea, cause it is hard to judge who is bad. Yeah there are people who can screw up, and misinterpret things. But does that make them bad? How do you clarify a bad player? My definition would be : A person who never tries. Goofs off no matter what happens. Doesn't really play, and is normally inactive for many games.' If you agree with my definition, can you honestly say I fit any of those descriptions to the 'T'. Also how many people would agree with you if you do believe i fit those descriptions? This is a waste of time. I am probably on like page 13 right now, but honestly if it hasn't already been decided, just kill Tricode. Your reasoning for killing veterans was retarded, foolishness usually plays decently, I have no idea why he is supporting such a shitty plan, or was supporting. Tricode is either playing really obvious mafia or a retarded townie right now. I will explain my reasoning here. He announces candidacy, which is cool, whatever slightly out of character. He then announces a shitdumbretarded plan of killing veteran players because *most likely* at least one will be mafia, well no shit. Qatol/Ver not liking IMBA teams and how RNG's work suggest that MOST LIKELY one of the Vet's is mafia. But why kill a vet? Its the same as if we randomly kill someone else, you know such as you. Someone who has behavior backing our thoughts. I agree with redtooth's fake anger analysis thing earlier on that was just an odd way to act and at this point the mafia would have NO REASON to kill you because you are just flat out not contributing or proving useful in anyway, just advocating plans that benefit them. So if you don't die to a mafia hit its either because your being annoying and helping them, or because you are mafia and they aren't going to kill their own. Either way I think killing you (from what I read so far) is a good decision. I just think it comes down to whether you are going to be the DT lynch check for Day 2, or the mayoral election Day 1 lynch. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On October 23 2009 01:27 L wrote: So, does anyone remember a game in which Scamp played the silent clueless newbie part and had a role other than mafia? No. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
I say we go ahead with the normal DT's checking lynched people for two nights which will allow the DT's to figure out what they are and then progress from there. The DT check list Idea is an okay idea to try to preserve life, however its not even CLOSE to the level of deterrent that a medic is, and it is also not as productive for the DT's. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On October 22 2009 15:50 Scamp wrote: Why do people assume that mafia members are telling each other what to do? When I was a mafia the other mafia never told me what to do. 'Course I never really do anything, but still... They never told each other what to do either. If anything there was mostly polite asking. It was really quite civil. This is true, but you were also never active on IRC or anything :D But even so, the only mafia I ever ran into who tried forcing you into acting certain ways was AttackZerg, he would just always want to suicide bomb things. His behavior right now is consistent with someone who just really doesn't want to get lynched. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On October 22 2009 15:57 redtooth wrote: so who should we lynch? should we go with the killing-the-vet plan and risk cutting off our own heads? what about just killing a random person off the list? we don't have any other good lynch candidates at the moment except motbob who i assume will be dead before long. anyways, assuming tricode is townie, killing him leaves DT with a lot of options and a good deal of information. i was thinking about this earlier and the way incognito's plan will work out will allow DT to establish the color of ONE type of player (green, red, blue). there are three possible scenarios: i believe the last bit is the most important aspect we have to focus on. obviously we want to lynch a mafia and that would give us the best scenario (DT knowing the color of mafia in his checks, knowing the color of town-aligned players in checks) and lynching a blue is bad (no explanation needed). but let's look at the scenario where a townie is lynched. using tricode as an example: the scenario the DT is left with is not bad. whenever a check flips townie, DT can and should ignore that individual (he should not roleclaim because there is a chance that townie is a godfather). however, in the case that a check flips one of the other two colors, the individual has a special role and should be scrutinized and pressed by the DT. that person is either mafia (who the DT should try to get lynched) or a special town role (who the DT should try to form a circle with). so in the end, i still stand by the idea that we should kill tricode on Day 2. he is a detriment to the town regardless of his role. there are some signs pointing to him being a mafia and lynching him in that case would be very good. also, the lynch is not totally useless if tricode turns out to be a townie. the information DTs gain about their sanity is priceless as they are absolutely useless without knowing their own sanity. killing tricode is a win-win scenario. This also narrows him down to either a crooked or neurotic DT which hopefully one more lynch check (if we lynch a different role) will clarify the DTs position. | ||
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rredtooth
5464 Posts
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rredtooth
5464 Posts
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rredtooth
5464 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On October 23 2009 02:23 redtooth wrote: i don't know if doing incognito's plan for two nights is a good idea. mafia games don't last too long and wasting 2 nights so DT can just figure out his sanity is not an efficient use of time. if you look back at one of my previous posts, i outline the three scenarios DT faces after the first lynch. DT should then check suspicious people and base their judgment on their present scenario (they can either correctly identify a person or determine that a person is one of the two other colors). otherwise, we waste 2+ (remember the lynches HAVE to flip two different colors for the DT to perfectly identify their sanity) nights just to have DT find out their sanity but they do not get any information because all the people they checked are now dead. DTs aren't invincible and have a high chance of dying before they can be of any use at all. We could, after this first DT lynch thing, figure out the possible mafia early and decide to lynch them the next day so that the DTs have the time to check him. But I don't know how significant the one day delay is going to be. And as soon as we've lynched people with two different colors, we'd obviously stop this and start lynching normally instead of delaying. I think I explained it pretty badly but I think it'd help. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On October 23 2009 02:23 redtooth wrote: i don't know if doing incognito's plan for two nights is a good idea. mafia games don't last too long and wasting 2 nights so DT can just figure out his sanity is not an efficient use of time. if you look back at one of my previous posts, i outline the three scenarios DT faces after the first lynch. DT should then check suspicious people and base their judgment on their present scenario (they can either correctly identify a person or determine that a person is one of the two other colors). otherwise, we waste 2+ (remember the lynches HAVE to flip two different colors for the DT to perfectly identify their sanity) nights just to have DT find out their sanity but they do not get any information because all the people they checked are now dead. DTs aren't invincible and have a high chance of dying before they can be of any use at all. I don't think the plan involves just choosing a random person to lynch each time. We go about the game normally and lynch those we think are suspicious, and hopefully the DT's figure out through role checks what their sanity is. I am sure that in two lynches we will probably hit at least one town aligned player and hopefully a mafia. The DT's are unreliable until they know what their alignment is, they can't even check talk to people. So at the VERY LEAST. We need them to coordinate for the Day 2 Lynch so that they can narrow down what their role is to a 50/50 instead of a 1/6 shot. With the first lynch check if the DT hypothetically sees green and they flip green, he can check other people and if they shop up red/blue then he can be suspicious but he can trust green role checks from that point forward (Not counting GF, of course) | ||
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rredtooth
5464 Posts
On October 23 2009 02:37 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: i think the DTs will have to make do with the 50/50. we have to remember that information about dead people is useless other than to prove DTs sanity. in the case that the first lynch flips red, we are in a good position as we just killed a mafia and DT is able to correctly identify all future mafia. in the case that the first lynch flips green, DT can identify all future "significant" people (non-townies) and scrutinize them in order to determine whether they are a really useful ally or an enemy.I don't think the plan involves just choosing a random person to lynch each time. We go about the game normally and lynch those we think are suspicious, and hopefully the DT's figure out through role checks what their sanity is. I am sure that in two lynches we will probably hit at least one town aligned player and hopefully a mafia. The DT's are unreliable until they know what their alignment is, they can't even check talk to people. So at the VERY LEAST. We need them to coordinate for the Day 2 Lynch so that they can narrow down what their role is to a 50/50 instead of a 1/6 shot. With the first lynch check if the DT hypothetically sees green and they flip green, he can check other people and if they shop up red/blue then he can be suspicious but he can trust green role checks from that point forward (Not counting GF, of course) we don't need to waste two lynches AND two DT checks just to determine sanity. the goal of the game is not to determine DTs sanity. it's to identify mafia and lynch them. think about how useful a sane DT is anyways (especially with GF running around). remember, even games with totally sane DTs have often resulted in town loss. spending half the game in order to power up a DT is not worth it. | ||
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rredtooth
5464 Posts
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L
Canada4732 Posts
Okay, so generally our games end at day 5 or so. Normally our plans of action revolve around securing a piece of important information by day 2-3 in order to be able to check pieces of hard evidence and smoke out some mafia. Generally when that fails, someone tries some powerplay and we either win or lose dramatically based on that. In the current game, we have 21 players, 2 kp, 1 double lynch and 4 mafia. Assuming we play as terribly as possible, the game ends for all intents and purposes if we hit 1 accurately once by day 5: Day 1: 17(4) Night 1:16(4) Day 2: 14(4) Night 2: 13(4) Day 3: 11(4) Night 3: 10(4) Day 4: 8(4) Night 4: 7(4) Day 5: 5(4) *Night 5: 5(3) Day 6: 3(3) Obvious loss without double Night 5: 5(2) with double Day 6: 4(2) Night 6: 3(2) Day 7: 2(2) game ends again. Put simply, barring vets, medics and such, we need to hit someone properly on night 2-3 to have enough breathing room to win. DTs need 2 dissimilar checks in order to self-verify, which means they know with certainty as whatever they are by day 3-4. The problem with this is that it leaves us with very little time to actually capitalize on DTs. What this means, simply put, is that we need to be accurate with a hit on days 2-4 if we want a decent chance at winning. If we can hit 2 during that time period, the game will become very town favored. Because of that, we need people producing content from the get-go. We need to be able to pin a few people down early on. This also means that DTs might be better off disclosing a 50% chance hit than waiting an extra day if we're nearing the "gotta hit every lynch" point. In other news: sup scamp. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Another possibilities are 1. guessing with the 50% chance and hoping you get it right 2. DT-checking some people and seeing which of the 2 roles would make more sense for them and you can always narrow it down to at least the 1/2 chance, and you will be able to guarantee 1/3 of the roles(not including GF). Wonder if there's something I missed while thinking about this, since there always seems to be something I fail to take into consideration. | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On October 23 2009 01:49 Shikyo wrote: Oh right, I don't think WC8 has posted anything other thant the wine drinking comment. I don't think he's voted either. Where's this wine you speak of and why do I not have a glass or box of? | ||
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