|
On October 23 2009 01:09 L wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2009 20:32 Amber[LighT] wrote:On October 22 2009 16:34 HeavOnEarth wrote:
hey Amber[Light], what are your reasons for voting caller other than to move the game along? I don't want to be caught in the shitstorm when the two major elected officials end up killing people that voted for the opposite party. Plus I don't want to be responsible for electing someone the town ends up upset about. I think all of the candidates are shitty, by the way. You realize that despite saying you don't want to get caught in the shitstorm, the fact that caller is going to kill pyrr puts you straight in the middle of said shitstorm, right? Pretty shaky reasoning here.
Then kill me if you think what he does is suspicious.
|
On October 23 2009 03:42 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2009 01:49 Shikyo wrote:
Oh right, I don't think WC8 has posted anything other thant the wine drinking comment. I don't think he's voted either. Where's this wine you speak of and why do I not have a glass or box of?
You haven't used the wine-in-front-of-me defense enough, it seems. Find out everything about it on mafiawiki.
|
USA5860 Posts
Yeah L, I noticed most of the time I come up with ideas in the shower. I had this one just a little while ago. I am surprised I didn't think of it earlier, this plan is also more or less godfather proof.
So today we go ahead and mayoral kill Motbob hes an inactive and we need to do something with our lynch, it might as well be that.
The next step is for the Day 2 lynch we kill Tricode. As of now I think Tricode is either a Red or a Green. Either way this works out (However if hes a blue, hes a moron and this doesn't work so well) But I think that is a relatively low chance.
EDIT: Actually upon rethinking this, if hes blue that confirms that the Veteran checks are legit, even if it doesn't give the sanity of the DT's
Now the DT's have checked Tricode and have gotten a result lets pretend he is Green for all intensive purposes.
Now we have the Vet's role call, I think in this game there is probably 1-2 Vet's, I can't see anymore than that. Since the mafia KP is only two, it wouldn't be worthwhile to try to kill one, especially with medics around. Lets say we get 2 Veteran's who role call and we have 2 DT's now, the next check that the DT's get they use on these role called Veteran's, with that we now know that the DT's have checked 1 Green/red in Tricode and now a Blue in the RC'd Veteran. They now have their sanity determined theoretically if it all goes well.
The Veteran's will ANNOUNCE when the DT has role called to them (since they should be more or less confirmed now) with this if a DT dies we know who to look at, so if the mafia tries pulling some fast shit they lose a member which they can't afford to do. If a DT role calls to the "Vet" and he doesn't go public before night, you tell us what you did. Chances are he is a mafia if he didn't announce that he had you role claimed.
From there we now have the Vet's and the DT's working together with sanity secured hopefully, and very little that the mafia can actually do about it except killing the DT's before any of this even happens. In the case that there is only a single Veteran the medics can be used to scare off/save that Vet. If only 1 Veteran role calls we can be almost 100% sure they are legit.
With that we can coordinate well and identify who is NOT mafia and then narrow down suspect lists.
|
Issue: we don't know how many vets we have, and there's a godfather than can make his role 'vet'.
|
the "bgs" could be either red or blue so it doesn't say anything
your vet plan isn't that great either, so many fake claims as well as giving mafia a "do not hit" list
I don't see why everyone is so obsessed with dts. Let's play the game without them and if role checks happen to do something useful, that's a bonus.
|
|
|
On October 23 2009 03:46 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Yeah L, I noticed most of the time I come up with ideas in the shower. I had this one just a little while ago. I am surprised I didn't think of it earlier, this plan is also more or less godfather proof.
So today we go ahead and mayoral kill Motbob hes an inactive and we need to do something with our lynch, it might as well be that.
The next step is for the Day 2 lynch we kill Tricode. As of now I think Tricode is either a Red or a Green. Either way this works out (However if hes a blue, hes a moron and this doesn't work so well) But I think that is a relatively low chance.
Now the DT's have checked Tricode and have gotten a result lets pretend he is Green for all intensive purposes.
Now we have the Vet's role call, I think in this game there is probably 1-2 Vet's, I can't see anymore than that. Since the mafia KP is only two, it wouldn't be worthwhile to try to kill one, especially with medics around. Lets say we get 2 Veteran's who role call and we have 2 DT's now, the next check that the DT's get they use on these role called Veteran's, with that we now know that the DT's have checked 1 Green/red in Tricode and now a Blue in the RC'd Veteran. They now have their sanity determined theoretically if it all goes well.
The Veteran's will ANNOUNCE when the DT has role called to them (since they should be more or less confirmed now) with this if a DT dies we know who to look at, so if the mafia tries pulling some fast shit they lose a member which they can't afford to do. If a DT role calls to the "Vet" and he doesn't go public before night, you tell us what you did. Chances are he is a mafia if he didn't announce that he had you role claimed.
From there we now have the Vet's and the DT's working together with sanity secured hopefully, and very little that the mafia can actually do about it except killing the DT's before any of this even happens. In the case that there is only a single Veteran the medics can be used to scare off/save that Vet. If only 1 Veteran role calls we can be almost 100% sure they are legit.
With that we can coordinate well and identify who is NOT mafia and then narrow down suspect lists.
Some stuff that seems problematic to me:
1. We don't know the amount of veterans, so we can't even know if there's a mafia amongst them. I think that if 3 vets claim, it's highly likely, though. But with 2 vets claiming, one of them can very well be mafia. It's true that if only one vet calls he's most likely legit, but I just don't see why a mafia member wouldn't claim vet in a situation like this. Maybe he's afraid of a third person calling vet after him? Still, we can't guarantee that the vet is actually a vet.
2. If the DTs check tricode and he's green, when they check the vet he'll show up as a mafia or a blue, but the DT can't know which. He might contact a mafia and he has no way at all of knowing wether the vet is actually vet or a mafia. Also, they won't get hit by mafia in either case, so we can't even use the fact that they weren't hit as a reason for suspicion.
Also, I don't understand why the mafia wouldn't announce that a DT claimed to them, they already put themselves into the open as vets to begin with. That'd be really stupid. But maybe the mafia actually is that stupid, who knows.
Of course, if Tricode or whoever else we lynch turns out to be mafia instead, this all would work out perfectly and to me seems like the best way to go about things.
|
On October 23 2009 03:44 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2009 01:09 L wrote:On October 22 2009 20:32 Amber[LighT] wrote:On October 22 2009 16:34 HeavOnEarth wrote:
hey Amber[Light], what are your reasons for voting caller other than to move the game along? I don't want to be caught in the shitstorm when the two major elected officials end up killing people that voted for the opposite party. Plus I don't want to be responsible for electing someone the town ends up upset about. I think all of the candidates are shitty, by the way. You realize that despite saying you don't want to get caught in the shitstorm, the fact that caller is going to kill pyrr puts you straight in the middle of said shitstorm, right? Pretty shaky reasoning here. Then kill me if you think what he does is suspicious.
He's basically decided to kill one of our better players with no reasoning behind the choice and you think that's not suspicious? If he tried to build a case for the choice, sure, I could appreciate it a bit more, but he hasn't.
|
Oh right, and GF can fake to be vet. I always forget this, but that would totally ruin this plan, indeed.
|
USA5860 Posts
On October 23 2009 03:51 L wrote:
Issue: we don't know how many vets we have, and there's a godfather than can make his role 'vet'.
If two vet's claim we kill them both and trade off for GF. Who cares? 2 actual Vet's would be broken with 2 KP.
|
USA5860 Posts
On October 23 2009 03:55 motbob wrote:My grandpa died and I'm helping make preparations for his funeral so I'll be super inactive until Sunday. Sorry 
You and your grandfather are about to have something in common.
+ Show Spoiler +
|
USA5860 Posts
2. If the DTs check tricode and he's green, when they check the vet he'll show up as a mafia or a blue, but the DT can't know which. He might contact a mafia and he has no way at all of knowing whether the vet is actually vet or a mafia. Also, they won't get hit by mafia in either case, so we can't even use the fact that they weren't hit as a reason for suspicion.
Also, I don't understand why the mafia wouldn't announce that a DT claimed to them, they already put themselves into the open as vets to begin with. That'd be really stupid. But maybe the mafia actually is that stupid, who knows.
If the DT dies after role claiming to the "vet" chances are he was a mafia and I understand that the DT won't know if the "vet" is either one, but that means losing 1DT and killing the godfather/mafia. Conversely if 2 Veteran's claim we will then again trade off 1 Vet for a mafia again (Possibly also losing a DT)
|
I'm sorry to hear about that, motbob. May he rest in peace. It still doesn't quite explain why you actively posted from around 13.00 to 18.00 KST but didn't respond to this thread, though.
Now let's talk about the medics a little bit, shall we? So, they're extremely powerful in this kind of a game, being able to completely prevent a person from dying after the amount of mafia is reduced to 2. After this point, 2 medics are able to keep each other alive until the end of the time and roleclaim with no worries and become an autowin. That's why I believe that there is only one medic in the game. Could be two, but that would be really, really overpowered in my opinion.
Also, the medic shouldn't role claim since they'd be immediately killed by mafia. This means that they'd have to kind of act from the shadows for most of the time. I also think that our medic list or whatever we're planning on doing should be relatively short, since with 8 names and 1 medic, the mafia will most likely just completely ignore the list.
|
On October 23 2009 04:02 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2009 03:51 L wrote:
Issue: we don't know how many vets we have, and there's a godfather than can make his role 'vet'. If two vet's claim we kill them both and trade off for GF. Who cares? 2 actual Vet's would be broken with 2 KP.
5 townies, one of which is a vet, for one mafia? Assuming we carry out the first 2 day plans and miss with both, that means one mafia on the fourth day, which means that we pretty much lose. GF doesn't matter at that point. Although that might be worth considering if we manage to lynch a mafia on the first two days.
|
There are slightly less than 6 hours left before voting closes. If you haven't voted yet, please do so soon. [insert standard rant about modkilling here]
|
Mafia don't need to kill the DT who claimed to the fake vet, since the DT is going to see blue as red and red as blue and might actually hurt the town. Then the fake vet can gain all the information he can and win.
I guess you're correct about imba though, so I'd say that there's only one medic and one vet, but we can never be sure and if we screw up with that, we're done.
|
USA5860 Posts
On October 23 2009 04:15 Shikyo wrote:
Mafia don't need to kill the DT who claimed to the fake vet, since the DT is going to see blue as red and red as blue and might actually hurt the town. Then the fake vet can gain all the information he can and win.
I guess you're correct about imba though, so I'd say that there's only one medic and one vet, but we can never be sure and if we screw up with that, we're done.
I think if you shift medic/Vet numbers at ALL it would be imbalanced. So we can be SURE the one Vet that claims is sincere. If there are two Vets that claim we call it off and kill the Two claiming vets.
|
On October 23 2009 04:26 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2009 04:15 Shikyo wrote:
Mafia don't need to kill the DT who claimed to the fake vet, since the DT is going to see blue as red and red as blue and might actually hurt the town. Then the fake vet can gain all the information he can and win.
I guess you're correct about imba though, so I'd say that there's only one medic and one vet, but we can never be sure and if we screw up with that, we're done. I think if you shift medic/Vet numbers at ALL it would be imbalanced. So we can be SURE the one Vet that claims is sincere. If there are two Vets that claim we call it off and kill the Two claiming vets.
Well yeah, I can't see any other reason for different amount unless the hosts were screwing with us somehow. Especially 2 medics would be completely gamebreaking, and yeah with so little KP... I guess it could work. I highly doubt they'd have the GF claim vet though, since if the day 2 lynch turns out green, it'd be better for them if a normal mafia claimed vet because of the DT confusion. I don't think they can afford to let the town have a confirmed townie that early in the game, so I guess that's what they might be going for.
If the day2 lynch turns out to be either blue or mafia, then Mafia has no way of claiming vet without getting screwed unless it's the GF claiming... sigh my head is starting to hurt.
|
Current standings (tiebreaks included):
Pyrrhuloxia: 3
Tricode: 3
Ace: 1
Caller: 1
Bloodyc0bbler: 1
L: 1
Abstain: 4
Invalid: 1
No vote: 6
|
Especially 2 medics would be completely gamebreaking, Not really. They would all need to claim rather early, not get lynched, not get hit prior to claiming, etc.
I really don't think we should assume that we have a certain number of a role given that they have been hidden from us on purpose. It could very well be that we have 0 vets and 2 medics as far as i can tell.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
