Groups Two groups of 4 teams randomly seeded. Double Round Robin Bo1. Winner of each group advances to Play-In Knockout.
Knockout Two teams from Play-In Group Stage randomly paired against two seeded teams from Taiwan (LMS) and North America (LCS). Winners qualify for Group Stage. Losers play for final spot in Group Stage All matches are Bo5.
Group Stage
Three teams from Play In and three seeded teams from Korea (LCK), China (LPL), and Europe (LEC). Double Round Robin Bo1. Top four teams advance to Knockout Stage
Knockout Stage
Four teams Single Elimination 1st place team from Group Stage selects either the 3rd place or 4th place team as their opponent. All matches are Bo5.
We're just over two weeks away from MSI. We'll be having a separate tipping competition for MSI so if you've fallen behind in Liquibet, you still have something to play for during MSI. Look for that announcement later next week!
Liquibet will still continue and end with the conclusion of MSI. And Wonder is on the move up the ladder! Can the top 3 hold him off?
Clearly your bias is showing. Your love for xPeke and Deficio is just too much to hide. Also, I hope G2 can extend their fun and creative play on the international stage, would be a shame if they retained themselves.
Putting Phong Vu and Fenerbahce in the same group is a crime, especially while group B would be free for either of them. I suppose the upside is that whoever does make it out of the two of them should have a free ride into main MSI, as they should easily beat the loser of FW/Group B
On April 24 2019 00:43 chipmonklord17 wrote: Putting Phong Vu and Fenerbahce in the same group is a crime, especially while group B would be free for either of them. I suppose the upside is that whoever does make it out of the two of them should have a free ride into main MSI, as they should easily beat the loser of FW/Group B
I feel like it would have been better, given the unforeseeable schedule change, that Riot automatically brought FW/TL into the main event to at least lighten the load on the casters. Yes it would have been cool/hilarious to see either of them go down to Wildcard teams, but realistically they wouldn't have and you're just making your casters cast two additional best of 5s on already crammed days. Or they could have used those days to re-spread out the play ins
this are actually at an almost watchable time for me, it will be very early in the morning but still better than when the games start at 2 or 3 am, those ones are basically unwatchable
Would like to stop and dump on the tournament schedule again. Why is the mixed group day tomorrow(today) and not on Friday? FW will have, at worst, 1 day of knowing their opponent ahead of time while TL will have 4 days.
On May 02 2019 09:22 Slusher wrote: There was a death of a prominent goverment member in Vietnam, and there is a day of morning, so two days were merged
But that doesn't really address the issue. I know why the schedule got changed, but this is a poor job of doing it. If you make tomorrow/today group B and the group finisher on Friday, both teams will have, at worst, 24 hours.
On May 03 2019 01:08 chipmonklord17 wrote: I missed the first few matches, what are the odds that Vega (or anyone in group B) could beat FW in the bo5?
from watching them play today I don't think any of the teams in group B are very good, I haven't watched much Flash Wolves this year but I think they will pretty easily beat whoever wins in B
On May 03 2019 02:44 chipmonklord17 wrote: I'm still mad that the two best teams in play ins are in the same group AND play the stronger of the two major region teams.
yeah its really disappointing, either PVB or FB would wipe the floor with the teams in group B
On May 03 2019 02:44 chipmonklord17 wrote: I'm still mad that the two best teams in play ins are in the same group AND play the stronger of the two major region teams.
yeah its really disappointing, either PVB or FB would wipe the floor with the teams in group B
Beyond that, I feel like FB or PVB could give FW a run for their money too, but now they won't get the chance
it still feels so lazy to me that they aren't casting from the site and instead doing it remote from LA edit. also wtf is this break, they have literally said nothing yet
On May 06 2019 16:32 starkiller123 wrote: it still feels so lazy to me that they aren't casting from the site and instead doing it remote from LA edit. also wtf is this break, they have literally said nothing yet
Makes a lot of sense. Don't have to spend all that money shipping people over and boarding them. Probably a lot easier to get work visas done bringing people to the USA for the company they work for than tossing them out to other countries.
On May 06 2019 17:31 AdsMoFro wrote: Well, this started off poorly.
Yeah, dragon fight looked good at start, ended very poorly because PVB are willing to go all in, TL did not expect the suicidal Kai'Sa to clean up their team.
True, the moment TL decided to play a bit more reactive and fully exploit PVB mispositioning, they cruised through the game. But when they tried to force PVB mistakes at the start, they were losing a lot of ground.
Pretty sure that 15 out of the 20 TL kills were PVB players being in a horrible position, not expecting or understanding that if they die, it will cost them a big objective. TL doesn't need to do anything except sit and wait, they're doing it clumsily but it doesn't matter because PVB looks like they play without a win condition. These games have been pretty boring so far, if PVB could somehow translate their early picks into something, they could stomp TL, but they can't even get turrets.
Second series turned out to be more of a stomp, but I enjoyed it more because VEG had some smart moments, PVB looked pretty brain dead in comparison. Really curious which of the two is better, I honestly place my bet on VEG if they don't fall to the PVB aggression. Group A looked more competitive, but VEG looks like a mini G2, willing to try more unorthodox strategies, even if it looked like cheese at times.
We get to see G2 play iG today as well, really good way to gauge their skill, since iG does not have a weak laning phase, assuming Jackey doesn't feed.
On May 10 2019 19:32 DarkCore wrote: Yeah, but I don't think I've seen SKT lose early game this badly before, G2 has 4 turrets to 2 and the cs lead. 5k @ 18 minutes lol.
Decided to bet on TL for this one since I am not optimistic for G2.
My impression from the first games was that Caps can not deal with the pressure again and Miky had very little practice due to his wrist issues whcih also means little practice for the team with him.
TL slow playstyle means iG can do whatever they want, with zero resistance. Honestly, this kind of game feels like an even bigger difference than G2 vs iG, at least they tried.
Uh, nvm, guess TL can turtle until they get their own picks.
Game was a stomp, it just didn't look like it because iG willingly let the game go slow while accruing such a big lead that even the picks by TL didn't matter. Last fight iG just had so much more dmg than TL, didn't help that CoreJJ failed to force the fight, and DL died with Heal up.
Jensen looked pretty outclassed that game by Rookie. Hard to watch him hard lose the Akali/Sylas matchup from both sides. Akali roamed bottom level 3 gets IG the lead, and then he TPs bottom twice and still has a lead while jensen is just stuck at his tower?
Per op.gg Sylas wins that matchup 63% of time. On average at 10 minutes Sylas has a 273 gold lead.
I think TL needs to set up Jensen for success, as DL and Impact kind of just always find success, but Jensen looks like he needs some help to not just fall over. Although, I suppose that was C9's strategy at worlds, and Jensen looked lacklustre there too in the knockout stages. That being said, I think Xmithie is better than Contractz, Impact is better than Licorice, and DoubleJ is better than Sneaky / Smoothie.
Maybe you just put Jensen on a lane bully? Like Taliyah / Yasuo / Jayce? Idk.
I knew I was a fool to bet on TL, but if they didn't engage right there it could've still happened. Game was probably lost when they killed 3 and still lost baron though.
Also, the jungle/mid pairing needs way better communication/setup. If you let your enemy midlaner freely wander into the river while Rek'sai can still ambush you, you're just griefing imo.
Despite G2 getting stomped, they look clearly ahead of the other teams. Interested in their SKT/iG rematches, especially now that the two play each other.
Faker smirked when they picked Taric, this is going to be a fun game.
On May 11 2019 19:11 Uldridge wrote: I knew I was a fool to bet on TL, but if they didn't engage right there it could've still happened. Game was probably lost when they killed 3 and still lost baron though.
Also, the jungle/mid pairing needs way better communication/setup. If you let your enemy midlaner freely wander into the river while Rek'sai can still ambush you, you're just griefing imo.
They could have won that fight, and subsequently the game, if Impact was able to get into it. By time he was even able to think about ulting it was already over.
SKT losing in 16 minutes is something I would have never thought to witness. And the crazy thing is, I'm immediately trying to rationalize it. Perhaps they're playing 4D chess and either they lost on purpose only to bait the counter and to punish itnext draft OR they just tried it and found out iG is too good at punishing the strat so they won't go for it. Either way, a win-win. On the other hand, I've seen the way SKT loses games and them being blasted like that makes me sad because this means their glory days of being the world's powerhouse might be truly over.
Idk the more I think about it the more I realise MSI Group stage is so fucking pointless. We're basically just waiting for the knockout stage since it's pretty obvious who's making it out. That makes these bo1s so worthless in my eyes and the fact that we get only 3 Bo5s at the second biggest International tournament is so laughable.
I now finally understand why that Sylas spear bug exists, learned a random fact today.
MSI would be more interesting if more teams were present, but then it would essentially be a mini Worlds. 6 teams is just a very odd number to play a tournament with, especially because there's generally 1-2 clearly weaker teams, this year the only real spot up for grabs looks to be 4th between TL and FW.
I actually do want to believe that SKT/G2 didn't show all their cards in those games. Both chose gimmicky strats, so either they wanted to test it out or think it's the only way to beat iG. Meanwhile iG just plays their standard comps every single game, sometimes they just run more aggressive comps or let Jackey dumpster with Draven.
This game only looks like this because TheShy played the laning phase like a boosted animal, zero respect for his opponents. That let Akali and Xin get big enough to relieve pressure on the map and even win fights. Now we're watching a long game of iG shotcalling pulling this game back.
Yeah I thought their attempts to get back was about the best they could do. They just got run over early by Reksai. PVB had shown before that they were quite good in early game skirmishing, so this was not totally surprising given the team comps.
If TL wins now, either G2 or SKT will end up tied with them for 3rd, today is actually exciting. How are tiebreakers at the end of the round robin being decided?
On May 12 2019 10:14 Uldridge wrote: SKT losing in 16 minutes is something I would have never thought to witness. And the crazy thing is, I'm immediately trying to rationalize it. Perhaps they're playing 4D chess and either they lost on purpose only to bait the counter and to punish itnext draft OR they just tried it and found out iG is too good at punishing the strat so they won't go for it. Either way, a win-win. On the other hand, I've seen the way SKT loses games and them being blasted like that makes me sad because this means their glory days of being the world's powerhouse might be truly over.
if skt fails hard in the bo5s then wed have something to talk about but as far as im concerned skt is just getting a feel for opponents and hiding strats in group stages atm. there is literally no reason to go all out in the group stages. the smart move would be to do enough to make the knockout stages but show your opponents as little as possible about what kind of team you are.
TL had a big ticket to making it into top 3, now they might not be able to make it out at all. G2/SKT must be so happy right now their game now isn't as decisive.
I honestly cannot describe how impressed I am with how G2 dismantled SKT both games. SKT isn't playing badly, but G2 always seems to be in control. When I saw the 0/2 Pyke, thought the game was over, instead they brute forced him back into the game, and the gold from his ult recovered their deficits.
Now to see if iG will give us another clown fiesta. Expecting TheShy to dumpster top to stroke his ego.
On May 12 2019 20:45 Redox wrote: Ok that game was super spectacular. This kind of stuff is what you like about G2 and what you would not see from TL in a 1000 games.
G2 are an incredibly smart team. When they aren't going full dumbo it's great to watch a team make aggressively smart plays. A bit frustrating how people talk down their macro when it's actually their biggest strength.
That is one sick page. Wish that it would show % to make it through when you select specific game results, would allow you to put in obvious results and then see how it affects a teams chances.
Looking at the graphs, SKT is basically going to make it through, they just need to win one of their games. It doesn't look so great for TL tbh, assuming they beat PVB but lose to iG, they have to basically win vs SKT or pray that SKT loses to FW. It's not unreasonable, SKT might win both games, but not what they would like for sure.
On May 12 2019 20:45 Redox wrote: Ok that game was super spectacular. This kind of stuff is what you like about G2 and what you would not see from TL in a 1000 games.
G2 are an incredibly smart team. When they aren't going full dumbo it's great to watch a team make aggressively smart plays. A bit frustrating how people talk down their macro when it's actually their biggest strength.
Yup. They played the Macro game against SKT twice and won. I think it was after their first match where Perkz said something along the lines of in EU we play a similar game and teams just die to our rotations but since SKT are way better they avoided most of the deaths but even after avoiding them they still fell behind and eventually got choked out.
Frosk casually hinting that Akali might be a very broken champion (she is). Hope we don't see the champ in iG vs G2, not fun to watch her stomp and blow up ADC without being able to deal with her.
I don't know if I'd be more disappointed if TL scrapes their way into playoffs almost exclusively because Chinabucks ruined FW, or if they don't make it there at all
Well, if things work out like expected in paper (SKT>TL, G2>PVB, iG>FW, G2>TL, FW>PVB) then there will be a tiebreaker. So, either TL beats a stronger opponent or earns their spot through the tiebreaker. The only way one could say TL didn't earn it is if PVB beats FW.
On May 14 2019 06:18 Gahlo wrote: Well, if things work out like expected in paper (SKT>TL, G2>PVB, iG>FW, G2>TL, FW>PVB) then there will be a tiebreaker. So, either TL beats a stronger opponent or earns their spot through the tiebreaker. The only way one could say TL didn't earn it is if PVB beats FW.
I'm not saying that they wouldn't earn it. I'd just be super disappointed if they only earn it because Chinabucks neutered the Flash Wolves. Like I think we can all agree that TL wouldn't be 4th with the same Hanabi/Jungler/Maple/Betty/SwordArt team in the mix.
Like it would be one thing if they 2-0, PVB, 2-0 FW, then upset one of G2/SKT/iG, but they're clearly only going to barely skate into playoffs off the back of worse competition than usual.
On May 14 2019 06:18 Gahlo wrote: Well, if things work out like expected in paper (SKT>TL, G2>PVB, iG>FW, G2>TL, FW>PVB) then there will be a tiebreaker. So, either TL beats a stronger opponent or earns their spot through the tiebreaker. The only way one could say TL didn't earn it is if PVB beats FW.
I'm not saying that they wouldn't earn it. I'd just be super disappointed if they only earn it because Chinabucks neutered the Flash Wolves. Like I think we can all agree that TL wouldn't be 4th with the same Hanabi/Jungler/Maple/Betty/SwordArt team in the mix.
Like it would be one thing if they 2-0, PVB, 2-0 FW, then upset one of G2/SKT/iG, but they're clearly only going to barely skate into playoffs off the back of worse competition than usual.
That'd be like saying TL shouldn't be there at all because they were able to sign CoreJJ with NAMuns.
I could just as easily counter them getting by from worse competition by saying the higher rated teams are also better at MSI. China replaced Korea, Korea is more consistent as a #2 than China is, and EU is stronger than it's ever been.
On May 14 2019 09:39 JimmiC wrote: Eu's best team is stronger then it has ever been. There 2nd team is not bad for second. But after that it ranges between hot garbage and full fledged tirefire.
A funny tourny would be all leagues non playoff teams. Best of the bottom!
They joked about this on The Dive, calling it Drift Rivals.
On May 14 2019 09:39 JimmiC wrote: Eu's best team is stronger then it has ever been. There 2nd team is not bad for second. But after that it ranges between hot garbage and full fledged tirefire.
A funny tourny would be all leagues non playoff teams. Best of the bottom!
They joked about this on The Dive, calling it Drift Rivals.
Thrift Rivals*, like a thrift store. Or at least that's what I assumed
On May 14 2019 06:18 Gahlo wrote: Well, if things work out like expected in paper (SKT>TL, G2>PVB, iG>FW, G2>TL, FW>PVB) then there will be a tiebreaker. So, either TL beats a stronger opponent or earns their spot through the tiebreaker. The only way one could say TL didn't earn it is if PVB beats FW.
I'm not saying that they wouldn't earn it. I'd just be super disappointed if they only earn it because Chinabucks neutered the Flash Wolves. Like I think we can all agree that TL wouldn't be 4th with the same Hanabi/Jungler/Maple/Betty/SwordArt team in the mix.
Like it would be one thing if they 2-0, PVB, 2-0 FW, then upset one of G2/SKT/iG, but they're clearly only going to barely skate into playoffs off the back of worse competition than usual.
That'd be like saying TL shouldn't be there at all because they were able to sign CoreJJ with NAMuns.
I could just as easily counter them getting by from worse competition by saying the higher rated teams are also better at MSI. China replaced Korea, Korea is more consistent as a #2 than China is, and EU is stronger than it's ever been.
That's fair, but it just feels disappointing. I guess its just that NA isn't really getting better, the only team in TW just got worse
On May 14 2019 09:39 JimmiC wrote: Eu's best team is stronger then it has ever been. There 2nd team is not bad for second. But after that it ranges between hot garbage and full fledged tirefire.
A funny tourny would be all leagues non playoff teams. Best of the bottom!
They joked about this on The Dive, calling it Drift Rivals.
Thrift Rivals*, like a thrift store. Or at least that's what I assumed
On May 14 2019 06:18 Gahlo wrote: Well, if things work out like expected in paper (SKT>TL, G2>PVB, iG>FW, G2>TL, FW>PVB) then there will be a tiebreaker. So, either TL beats a stronger opponent or earns their spot through the tiebreaker. The only way one could say TL didn't earn it is if PVB beats FW.
I'm not saying that they wouldn't earn it. I'd just be super disappointed if they only earn it because Chinabucks neutered the Flash Wolves. Like I think we can all agree that TL wouldn't be 4th with the same Hanabi/Jungler/Maple/Betty/SwordArt team in the mix.
Like it would be one thing if they 2-0, PVB, 2-0 FW, then upset one of G2/SKT/iG, but they're clearly only going to barely skate into playoffs off the back of worse competition than usual.
That'd be like saying TL shouldn't be there at all because they were able to sign CoreJJ with NAMuns.
I could just as easily counter them getting by from worse competition by saying the higher rated teams are also better at MSI. China replaced Korea, Korea is more consistent as a #2 than China is, and EU is stronger than it's ever been.
That's fair, but it just feels disappointing. I guess its just that NA isn't really getting better, the only team in TW just got worse
I might have misheard. Thrift rivals makes more sense.
As for the state of NA, I don't think it's in a terrible position and is being held down by the 1 representative format of MSI. Like old TSMs and C9 have shown, what wins NA might not be what pays off in international play. Korea and China will be Korea and China, but outside of G2 I haven't been too impressed with EU. I'm eagerly looking forward to Rift Rivals.
TL looked god awful vs SKT. They did literally nothing and died.
I think this is more like G2 at the end of the regular season. None of these games matter. They've shown before when nothing is on the line they don't play particularly well. Round robin really fucks over teams due to scheduling.
On May 14 2019 22:36 Numy wrote: TL looked god awful vs SKT. They did literally nothing and died.
I think this is more like G2 at the end of the regular season. None of these games matter. They've shown before when nothing is on the line they don't play particularly well. Round robin really fucks over teams due to scheduling.
Yeah TL got murdered by SKT, I really feel for Flash Wolves right now, also hilarious how happy people are getting for TL when everyone pre tournament was saying they have a free 4th place
On May 15 2019 00:33 AdsMoFro wrote: iG vs TL and SKT vs G2 for the semis. The sheet is ready to vote on as well! Remember to click on the playoffs sheet
On May 15 2019 00:33 AdsMoFro wrote: iG vs TL and SKT vs G2 for the semis. The sheet is ready to vote on as well! Remember to click on the playoffs sheet
On May 12 2019 12:16 AdsMoFro wrote: Idk the more I think about it the more I realise MSI Group stage is so fucking pointless. We're basically just waiting for the knockout stage since it's pretty obvious who's making it out. That makes these bo1s so worthless in my eyes and the fact that we get only 3 Bo5s at the second biggest International tournament is so laughable.
For me, I think BO1 is beyond pointless at this point. League has developed such that its nonsense. In fact, the way they game has developed, BO5 is no longer sufficient for elimination series. LOL has become more like Baseball or Hockey, where even a BO7 might not be enough. So Riot has a choice. They can either revert a lot of the changes they have made that makes winners seem less likely to actually be the "better team" or they need to increase the length of series.
And I'm not even talking about SKT, iG, and G2 (although my theory is 100% verified if iG loses more than 1 game in elimination series, total). The problem is I watch a game, and think that in a significant percentage of the games, I think the winner just got lucky with Fog of War early in the game (and their opponent had no opportunity to ward it properly, or even worse they had the objectively correct wards, but the dive was not avoidable anyways), or there is a situation where a team sends in a scout, who is a tank, and is the tankiest character in the game, for the purpose of gaining a minor amount of vision, and they just lose, even though they were even, and made the right choices.
TLDR: There are too many wrong choices in LOL now, and wrong choices are too important.
On May 12 2019 12:16 AdsMoFro wrote: Idk the more I think about it the more I realise MSI Group stage is so fucking pointless. We're basically just waiting for the knockout stage since it's pretty obvious who's making it out. That makes these bo1s so worthless in my eyes and the fact that we get only 3 Bo5s at the second biggest International tournament is so laughable.
For me, I think BO1 is beyond pointless at this point. League has developed such that its nonsense. In fact, the way they game has developed, BO5 is no longer sufficient for elimination series. LOL has become more like Baseball or Hockey, where even a BO7 might not be enough. So Riot has a choice. They can either revert a lot of the changes they have made that makes winners seem less likely to actually be the "better team" or they need to increase the length of series.
And I'm not even talking about SKT, iG, and G2 (although my theory is 100% verified if iG loses more than 1 game in elimination series, total). The problem is I watch a game, and think that in a significant percentage of the games, I think the winner just got lucky with Fog of War early in the game (and their opponent had no opportunity to ward it properly, or even worse they had the objectively correct wards, but the dive was not avoidable anyways), or there is a situation where a team sends in a scout, who is a tank, and is the tankiest character in the game, for the purpose of gaining a minor amount of vision, and they just lose, even though they were even, and made the right choices.
TLDR: There are too many wrong choices in LOL now, and wrong choices are too important.
So what you're saying is...revert vision changes ;D
On May 12 2019 12:16 AdsMoFro wrote: Idk the more I think about it the more I realise MSI Group stage is so fucking pointless. We're basically just waiting for the knockout stage since it's pretty obvious who's making it out. That makes these bo1s so worthless in my eyes and the fact that we get only 3 Bo5s at the second biggest International tournament is so laughable.
For me, I think BO1 is beyond pointless at this point. League has developed such that its nonsense. In fact, the way they game has developed, BO5 is no longer sufficient for elimination series. LOL has become more like Baseball or Hockey, where even a BO7 might not be enough. So Riot has a choice. They can either revert a lot of the changes they have made that makes winners seem less likely to actually be the "better team" or they need to increase the length of series.
And I'm not even talking about SKT, iG, and G2 (although my theory is 100% verified if iG loses more than 1 game in elimination series, total). The problem is I watch a game, and think that in a significant percentage of the games, I think the winner just got lucky with Fog of War early in the game (and their opponent had no opportunity to ward it properly, or even worse they had the objectively correct wards, but the dive was not avoidable anyways), or there is a situation where a team sends in a scout, who is a tank, and is the tankiest character in the game, for t makehe purpose of gaining a minor amount of vision, and they just lose, even though they were even, and made the right choices.
TLDR: There are too many wrong choices in LOL now, and wrong choices are too important.
So what you're saying is...revert vision changes ;D
More vision might help, but they also should probably Nerf damage by 30% across the board for players.
Wtf did I watch today, why did iG not crush this series. Rookie played so well, boosted animal Jackey didn't appear until parts of game 4, Ning played alright. Was it TheShy being nonexistent/ neutralized by Impact, Xmithie playing really well for a whole series, or CoreJJ making the right calls? I'm going to have to think this through.
NA haven't made a finals in MSI since 2016 when CLG went to the finals after they had beaten Flash Wolves. Let's see if TL can actually win MSI vs G2 or SKT T1.
On May 17 2019 22:40 DarkCore wrote: Wtf did I watch today, why did iG not crush this series. Rookie played so well, boosted animal Jackey didn't appear until parts of game 4, Ning played alright. Was it TheShy being nonexistent/ neutralized by Impact, Xmithie playing really well for a whole series, or CoreJJ making the right calls? I'm going to have to think this through.
The support match up has to be the most contrasting role for me. Where Baolan generally had shaky initiations where a good outcome was almost lucky, Corejj was very decisive with bad calls being the exception.
skt shook griffin during lck and griffin proceeded to choke the rest of the season. skt shook ig and they proceed to choke the rest of the tourney. just skt things
That was a really good series, among the very best that LOL can offer, I'd say that baolan was the reverse mvp and inted too hard, everyone else played extremely well.
This tournament has been one of the best ever imo. And I dont say that because TL won, I am not a fan of them. Just really good game play, no bad teams and very fun meta.
From a gameplay perspective I would have preferred IG to win though. I love their aggression and Rookie is just a joy to watch.
On May 18 2019 01:10 chipmonklord17 wrote: My friend pointed out to me that TL won this semi final in 4 games, after they finished 4th by winning 4 games in group stage during the 4th MSI....
On May 18 2019 01:10 chipmonklord17 wrote: My friend pointed out to me that TL won this semi final in 4 games, after they finished 4th by winning 4 games in group stage during the 4th MSI....
I hope SKT beats g2, not because na vs Eu omegalul but because if TL did somehow win without beating Faker it wouldn’t be the same as winning while beating faker.
On May 18 2019 01:10 chipmonklord17 wrote: My friend pointed out to me that TL won this semi final in 4 games, after they finished 4th by winning 4 games in group stage during the 4th MSI....
Are TL destined to win?
This is the 5th MSI though.
e. From reddit:
Well then my friend is an idiot lol
I think he was tripped up by TL possibly being the 4th team to win MSI since SKT won 2.
On May 18 2019 11:35 Slusher wrote: I hope SKT beats g2, not because na vs Eu omegalul but because if TL did somehow win without beating Faker it wouldn’t be the same as winning while beating faker.
If TL beat G2 for the finals it'd be like 2015 IEM Kato all over again.
I think SKT are the heavy favorites to win now, its one thing to beat IG by countering their chaotic and risky playstyle, it's another entirely to beat a team as calculated as SKT.
On May 18 2019 13:09 IshinShishi wrote: I think SKT are the heavy favorites to win now, its one thing to beat IG by countering their chaotic and risky playstyle, it's another entirely to beat a team as calculated as SKT.
I will say that the gameplan is largely the same for TL on paper. Have Impact make toplane a muckfest and try to neutralize mid lane. Will of course depend on Xmithie and CoreJJ to show up again if that does end up being the matchup.
On May 18 2019 13:09 IshinShishi wrote: I think SKT are the heavy favorites to win now, its one thing to beat IG by countering their chaotic and risky playstyle, it's another entirely to beat a team as calculated as SKT.
I will say that the gameplan is largely the same for TL on paper. Have Impact make toplane a muckfest and try to neutralize mid lane. Will of course depend on Xmithie and CoreJJ to show up again if that does end up being the matchup.
While I agree, Mata is known for his fucking galaxy brain and Clid is the best jungler in the tournament, I find it hard to believe TL will overcome that hurdle.
On May 18 2019 13:09 IshinShishi wrote: I think SKT are the heavy favorites to win now, its one thing to beat IG by countering their chaotic and risky playstyle, it's another entirely to beat a team as calculated as SKT.
I will say that the gameplan is largely the same for TL on paper. Have Impact make toplane a muckfest and try to neutralize mid lane. Will of course depend on Xmithie and CoreJJ to show up again if that does end up being the matchup.
While I agree, Mata is known for his fucking galaxy brain and Clid is the best jungler in the tournament, I find it hard to believe TL will overcome that hurdle.
Definitely not saying it will be easy. Mata is also known for forgetting to charge his brain at times too. Can't really talk much on Clid considering I didn't really watch LCK too much last split.
On May 18 2019 11:35 Slusher wrote: I hope SKT beats g2, not because na vs Eu omegalul but because if TL did somehow win without beating Faker it wouldn’t be the same as winning while beating faker.
I dont get this one. You would prefer if TL won but that was somehow less legit becausse no Faker?
Finally got to watch the games. In that series iG was reminding me of S4 SKT. At the end it was sad Faker vs. the World and Piglet didn't know/want to play any style besides his own special style, and he wasn't good enough to do it anymore, and the support was always confused, and Benji was fine, but looked outclassed by the other junglers like spirit and dandy in the important games. Huge flex by the bot lane and jungle of TL.
On May 18 2019 11:35 Slusher wrote: I hope SKT beats g2, not because na vs Eu omegalul but because if TL did somehow win without beating Faker it wouldn’t be the same as winning while beating faker.
I dont get this one. You would prefer if TL won but that was somehow less legit becausse no Faker?
Anyway Rookie is much better in any case.
Beating Korea in the finals is more hype, it's kinda like how if whoever wins the other semi will get the, didn't have to beat iG treatment if they win(which is likely)
On May 18 2019 13:09 IshinShishi wrote: I think SKT are the heavy favorites to win now, its one thing to beat IG by countering their chaotic and risky playstyle, it's another entirely to beat a team as calculated as SKT.
I will say that the gameplan is largely the same for TL on paper. Have Impact make toplane a muckfest and try to neutralize mid lane. Will of course depend on Xmithie and CoreJJ to show up again if that does end up being the matchup.
While I agree, Mata is known for his fucking galaxy brain and Clid is the best jungler in the tournament, I find it hard to believe TL will overcome that hurdle.
Definitely not saying it will be easy. Mata is also known for forgetting to charge his brain at times too. Can't really talk much on Clid considering I didn't really watch LCK too much last split.
Mata's macro is never the question, it's his split second decision making that causes him to feed. And with TL playing a slow style, I cannot see them beating a team known for macro for their entire existence.
On May 18 2019 16:40 DarkCore wrote: Teddy Ezreal ist probably second to only Deft in world, he's sick on it.
Please no more Sona taric.
Honestly Sona/Taric wasnt the problem. Perkz being alone on Sona but still thinking he should walk into river was the problem. G2 were just super greedy, tried to get both the cheese top AND feign that Perkz wasn't alone and had friends bot, which was just dumb
These kinds of mistakes are because Sona Taric requires different playstyles and G2 hasn't refined it as well as their normal one. Look at this game 2, G2 is looking exactly like we saw them in most of groups, really solid macro and running SKT around the map.
On May 18 2019 17:18 DarkCore wrote: These kinds of mistakes are because Sona Taric requires different playstyles and G2 hasn't refined it as well as their normal one. Look at this game 2, G2 is looking exactly like we saw them in most of groups, really solid macro and running SKT around the map.
wouldnt say g2 has really done much in game 2 so far. clids mistake at bot was pretty big and if he hadnt made the mistake id say skt would be looking pretty comfortable. for the amount of pressure g2 should have atm they havent applied it very well imo
On May 18 2019 17:18 DarkCore wrote: These kinds of mistakes are because Sona Taric requires different playstyles and G2 hasn't refined it as well as their normal one. Look at this game 2, G2 is looking exactly like we saw them in most of groups, really solid macro and running SKT around the map.
wouldnt say g2 has really done much in game 2 so far. clids mistake at bot was pretty big and if he hadnt made the mistake id say skt would be looking pretty comfortable. for the amount of pressure g2 should have atm they havent applied it very well imo
G2 has two tps up after this pause, expect some playmaking quickly. Also Neeko is running away with top, that's something SKT have to deal with, which they're capable of, but if they go top then G2 might see an opening in the bot lane to dive. Which is so scary because Draven might cash in.
I agree, they seem to not believe in their own success, as if playing one style too much will result in it being countered. JDG did the exact same mistake against iG in the LPL finals. Meanwhile TL won their series by playing their own game, just much better than normally. 200 IQ experimental draft phases seems to be more of a detriment this tournament than an advantage.
On May 18 2019 19:26 DarkCore wrote: I agree, they seem to not believe in their own success, as if playing one style too much will result in it being countered. JDG did the exact same mistake against iG in the LPL finals. Meanwhile TL won their series by playing their own game, just much better than normally. 200 IQ experimental draft phases seems to be more of a detriment this tournament than an advantage.
It's funny because playing their own game is what G2 were praised for.
People always say Ocean drakes are weak after laning, but they help so much with resetting after a fight. Even taking baron when the team seemed so low just moments before.
On May 18 2019 20:09 Redox wrote: People always say Ocean drakes are weak after laning, but they help so much with resetting after a fight. Even taking baron when the team seemed so low just moments before.
Yeah Ocean is honestly still really strong. Functionally infinite mana on everybody, and perpetually high health when rotating or poking is just insane.
that was the most retarded baron call ive seen. why would you risk everything on that when youre just starting to get a foot in the game again. most un lck call ive seen, especially seeing as it was skt
On May 18 2019 21:11 evilfatsh1t wrote: that was the most retarded baron call ive seen. why would you risk everything on that when youre just starting to get a foot in the game again. most un lck call ive seen, especially seeing as it was skt
also khan sucked almost the entire series
Khan had no hands. They back there and teddy has wits end and its basically free win since G2 can't do baron unless SKT start it zzzzzz
I think the biggest difference in skill level was Wunder to Khan, Wunder was much much better than him the entire series. Faker also didn't do a thing for 20 minutes with his Leblanc, it was basically the Wunder show in another cheesy pyke game, yet I feel like SKT were on their up till the massive baron throw, SKT can only blame themselves for losing every early game tbh.
On May 19 2019 02:47 JimmiC wrote: I was thinking about the match up and from a player to player perspective. I have
CoreJJ > Mickyx (the biggest gap in my opinion is in support
DL > Perkz (if we are talking traditional ADC's this is massive but Perkz on a mage evens this up)
Caps > Jensen (caps can 1v5 in certain situations)
Jankos = Smithie (really depends on the game both can disappear both can make a big impact)
Impact = Wunder (I think Wunder had this before the tourney and that last game was sick and he handled Khan, but impact has been TL's most consistent player and the way he handled the Shy was impressive.
I agree with everything you're saying, with the caveat that Caps could also show up and int his face off
On May 19 2019 02:47 JimmiC wrote: I was thinking about the match up and from a player to player perspective. I have
CoreJJ > Mickyx (the biggest gap in my opinion is in support
DL > Perkz (if we are talking traditional ADC's this is massive but Perkz on a mage evens this up)
Caps > Jensen (caps can 1v5 in certain situations)
Jankos = Smithie (really depends on the game both can disappear both can make a big impact)
Impact = Wunder (I think Wunder had this before the tourney and that last game was sick and he handled Khan, but impact has been TL's most consistent player and the way he handled the Shy was impressive.
I think you really underestimate Mickyx, he's head and shoulders better mechanically speaking for example. That might not seem so important, but it can mean the difference between surviving a gank or completely reversing a situation. CoreJJ brings the experience though and I'd rate him higher, just that G2 doesn't have to worry about their support losing them the game.
I'm expecting Caps to either clap mid or get clapped himself. Also, I rate Jankos's A game higher than Xmithie's A game, casters really overlook how often he's there at the right place at the right time. There must have been at least half a dozen times this tournament when someone on G2 gets ganked and dies, and Jankos cleans up for an even trade. Or outright gets the better gank/countergank. And that was against star junglers like Ning and Clid, Xmithie really doesn't give me that same vibe.
On May 19 2019 16:37 chipmonklord17 wrote: At least G2 didnt get the eye?
Instead, Morg got all the plates in bot tower, isn't the point of Herald to get towers. Also forced TL to stay as 5 man top/mid while G2 could do whatever.
True, but it also looked like TL was not prepared for the all out aggression G2 went for, like that sudden turn around from Mickyx at the dead inhibitor (which was fantastic decision making btw, he's playing exceptionally well, meanwhile CoreJJ sucked). TL coaches need to discuss this with them, they need to rebuke the plays or they're going to get destroyed this series.
Can't let Rakan/Xayah through again for that very reason, too much playmaking potential.
That draft from TL was so poor. I disagree with picking Skarner into J4 and with picking Varus + Tahm when you want CoreJJ on an aggressive support like Braum and a better ADC like Kai'sa.
I mean there’s too much wrong about that game to cover it all but I’ll just say the play where it looked like Doublelift didn’t even notice caps walk behind him to bind him tilted me
On May 19 2019 16:53 DarkCore wrote: True, but it also looked like TL was not prepared for the all out aggression G2 went for, like that sudden turn around from Mickyx at the dead inhibitor (which was fantastic decision making btw, he's playing exceptionally well, meanwhile CoreJJ sucked). TL coaches need to discuss this with them, they need to rebuke the plays or they're going to get destroyed this series.
Can't let Rakan/Xayah through again for that very reason, too much playmaking potential.
At least not the Rakan. Placing a ban on an adc would seem bad here correct?
On May 19 2019 16:53 DarkCore wrote: True, but it also looked like TL was not prepared for the all out aggression G2 went for, like that sudden turn around from Mickyx at the dead inhibitor (which was fantastic decision making btw, he's playing exceptionally well, meanwhile CoreJJ sucked). TL coaches need to discuss this with them, they need to rebuke the plays or they're going to get destroyed this series.
Can't let Rakan/Xayah through again for that very reason, too much playmaking potential.
At least not the Rakan. Placing a ban on an adc would seem bad here correct?
Honestly I wouldn't ban any adc against Perkz outside of specific circumstances, dude has an infinite champion pool comparatively
On May 19 2019 16:54 Kinie wrote: That draft from TL was so poor. I disagree with picking Skarner into J4 and with picking Varus + Tahm when you want CoreJJ on an aggressive support like Braum and a better ADC like Kai'sa.
Varus is a significantly better laner than kaisa losing a game this quickly wouldn’t be solved by swapping in kaisa
On May 19 2019 16:53 DarkCore wrote: True, but it also looked like TL was not prepared for the all out aggression G2 went for, like that sudden turn around from Mickyx at the dead inhibitor (which was fantastic decision making btw, he's playing exceptionally well, meanwhile CoreJJ sucked). TL coaches need to discuss this with them, they need to rebuke the plays or they're going to get destroyed this series.
Can't let Rakan/Xayah through again for that very reason, too much playmaking potential.
At least not the Rakan. Placing a ban on an adc would seem bad here correct?
My guess is that TL will probably aim to first pick the J4 as they're on blue side now and force G2 to ban Rakan themselves.
I think this draft is going to be so focused on first pick and getting the early game champs that unless a major outdraft or outplay happens, the last pick counterpick option for Red side isn't going to be enough.
On May 19 2019 16:54 Kinie wrote: That draft from TL was so poor. I disagree with picking Skarner into J4 and with picking Varus + Tahm when you want CoreJJ on an aggressive support like Braum and a better ADC like Kai'sa.
Varus is a significantly better laner than kaisa losing a game this quickly wouldn’t be solved by swapping in kaisa
The point I was trying to make is I want to see TL's bot lane be on more aggressive, active champs and we know TL has had success with Kai'sa + Braum before.
Yes, meant the combo, not the individual champs. Xayah/Rakan themselves are fairly balanced right now, but combined they offer huge pressure at the pro level.
I mean there’s too much wrong about that game to cover it all but I’ll just say the play where it looked like Doublelift didn’t even notice caps walk behind him to bind him tilted me
Yeah, DL really underestimated how much his Q charge slows him, Caps had ample time to walk up to him and Xmithie. If not for the burned flash, I'd have said Caps TP was a huge waste, instead it turned out super good because it snowballed the lane harder.
It’s not a draft problem bot lane, Varus isn’t a stall till late adc, Darkcore was correct CoreJJ flashing level 1 actually removed all lane pressure Doublelift should have in that match up
If corejj has flash he can just pin Xayah under tower for 5 levels
I'm not 100% sure I agree with first-picking Akali, but I think I'm ok with Braum + Ashe for TL. However, G2's draft is scary and I'm certain they read TL's pick of Kennen. Impact's going to have to be so careful top and probably have Xmithie hang around to stop the Pyke from scaling out of control.
G2's champion pool is just too deep, TL drowning in the outpicks and outplays.
And once Jensen did the face check TL should have just stayed mid instead of running towards him like IG always did. You'd think TL would know to not funnel in, considering that's how they beat IG.
Impact did seem to contain the Pyke, and prevented him from popping off. However, Caps just stole too many ults and the AP ratios on all of TL's ults is stupid high, so he could benefit greatly from them.
Edit:
Either way, going to bed now, TL's not going to be able to do a reverse-sweep with how deep G2's champion pool is and how hype-y Caps is playing right now.
Either way it's Caps on it so it's going to be devastating if it gets going.
Funny story, I was watching NoWay's stream (German) when he duoed with Caps, who hadn't played Sylas yet (NoWay mid, Caps ADC). NoWay was telling him how strong the champion is, you just need to play him smartly. Guess he agrees, although coaches probably told him to play it too.
On May 19 2019 17:42 Slusher wrote: The problem is Caps has shown he wins both sides of that matchup
Jensen was ok until the mid face check. They should have just taken the mid tower they won off the fight instead of roaming into the fog, even if it was on their own side of the map.
Lets be real, people would have meme'd TL even if they won.
But probably worse now than if they didn't beat IG? Idk, I think the series is hard to judge much from, TL kind of hard threw all the games more than G2 outplaying them. Game 1 CoreJJ just straight inted like 5 times, game two they had a budding lead and for some reason just split and facechecked instead of taking a tower and free drake?
Game 3... I'm not really sure. Not sure why DL was at like 3 CS after 4 waves. Just kinda seems uncharacteristic, never seen that from him before.
On May 20 2019 00:18 JimmiC wrote: Basically when TL picked proactive teams they were winning (no face check I think game 2 is a win) when they picked scaling they got destroyed, manhandled.
Even with the face check if TL didn't pull an IG and run towards where Jensen had died, and instead taken mid t1 or grabbed the earth drake, there's a decent chance TL can win thanks to a Baron fight where G2 would have been forced to group up and give Impact a great chance to ult.
TL definitely underperformed in the finals and G2 stepped up. G2 totally deserve the win and the title. Best case scenario is that with Worlds in a few months TL can go for the redemption storyline and win it.
I don't know, the facecheck argument is quite pointless. TL was still ahead after that and ran it in the ground with more thoughtless engages, I don't think they would have won. G2 was playing better overall and probably would have pulled back, as except Kennen TL was quite even gold wise.
On May 19 2019 18:25 iCanada wrote: Lets be real, people would have meme'd TL even if they won.
But probably worse now than if they didn't beat IG? Idk, I think the series is hard to judge much from, TL kind of hard threw all the games more than G2 outplaying them. Game 1 CoreJJ just straight inted like 5 times, game two they had a budding lead and for some reason just split and facechecked instead of taking a tower and free drake?
Game 3... I'm not really sure. Not sure why DL was at like 3 CS after 4 waves. Just kinda seems uncharacteristic, never seen that from him before.
DL was behind because G2 played well?! I mean he missed 2 waves because of the lvl 2 gank burning both(?) sums, backing, and then being too scared because of being 1 lvl down and getting killed just like 1 or 2 mins later. I would call that getting outplayed and not uncharecteristic.
And the double elim thing, I'll never understand that. Finals are usually garbage because one team shits the bed like TL did today. Double elim doesn't change that. As much as I would like a close final, I like the format more (EDIT: meaning semi short single elim playoff type tournaments, but more like worlds, MSI has a bit too little depth). If iG can't beat TL, well, unlucky, you are apparently not that good, I mean it's a BO5 not a BO1.
I went through the whole process of hunting this site down and registering it just to say this.
Impact, Xmithie, Doublelift, CoreJJ, and Jenson. You guys were great. Every game was a joy to watch. Yes, the losses in final sucked, and you guys made a lot of mistakes that G2 was able to capitalize on. Pro or not, we've all had bad games, and i've watch enough of every one of you to know that your awesome players, and you just had a really bad string of them, and G2 is in a really strong place right now. But you were there, at Finals. You didn't bring the trophy home, but for the first time in a really long time i had a lot of hope that NA would bring it home this time, and that's what made every game exciting. Shake it off and ready up for RR and the next split. I'll still be here, screaming "TL" at the top of my lungs in my living room. Keep your heads up guys, I'm looking forward to you guys bringing this same competitive excitement to Worlds!
I think this was generally a successful MSI except for Sylas and Akali. Sylas just seemed too overwhelming of a playmaker at times, and he you look at him and his slappy chains and it just doesn't fit. Akali's shroud is not intuitive to a viewer right now. Also both have all these mini dashes (particularly when its Sylas vs. Akali in lane) and that is not a good viewer experience. Jumps need more visual indicators in viewing when you aren't playing, otherwise is just looks like a dude smashing his controller in Mortal Combat. Irelia, who I think is generally bad champ design for the game, does not have this issue. Her flourishes are much easier to watch.
Yes, the problem with Sylas is that now that he's been out long enough, players are good enough to exploit all of his incredibly unique and almost contradictory interactions with ultimate. I mentioned it months ago, but stuff like 'Sylas stealing Kindred ult makes the champion feel like a suicidal pick' has become more nuanced, this tournament I noted that Sylas is a great pick when enemy team picks top Neeko, because he gets to grab that ultimate and hence the insane AP ratios. We also saw Faker faking Gnar, it was well played by him, but in the PB it would make me hesitate picking Gnar, which is beyond stupid. Liss, who I'm glad is out of the meta, is also prone to her own ultimate. Syla kit is already quite good, he's a massive lane bully, but his ultimate is just so incredibly gimmicky from a balance perspective.
Akali and Rek'Sai are my next two champs on the problem list. Don't think I need to go much into Akali, she's just too strong right now. The problem with Rek'Sai is that she snowballs way too hard in the hands of capable teams. Her downside is that she falls off pretty hard, but champions with basically flip coin snowballing are badly balanced imo. Enemy early game basically revolves around 'don't ever, ever, ever fight Rek'Sai 2vs2 if you don't insta blow someone up', because she does more damage with red than both opponents combined.
On May 20 2019 19:33 DarkCore wrote: Yes, the problem with Sylas is that now that he's been out long enough, players are good enough to exploit all of his incredibly unique and almost contradictory interactions with ultimate. I mentioned it months ago, but stuff like 'Sylas stealing Kindred ult makes the champion feel like a suicidal pick' has become more nuanced, this tournament I noted that Sylas is a great pick when enemy team picks top Neeko, because he gets to grab that ultimate and hence the insane AP ratios. We also saw Faker faking Gnar, it was well played by him, but in the PB it would make me hesitate picking Gnar, which is beyond stupid. Liss, who I'm glad is out of the meta, is also prone to her own ultimate. Syla kit is already quite good, he's a massive lane bully, but his ultimate is just so incredibly gimmicky from a balance perspective.
Akali and Rek'Sai are my next two champs on the problem list. Don't think I need to go much into Akali, she's just too strong right now. The problem with Rek'Sai is that she snowballs way too hard in the hands of capable teams. Her downside is that she falls off pretty hard, but champions with basically flip coin snowballing are badly balanced imo. Enemy early game basically revolves around 'don't ever, ever, ever fight Rek'Sai 2vs2 if you don't insta blow someone up', because she does more damage with red than both opponents combined.
Rek'sai is far weaker now on live patch. The problem for Sylas remains that he uses his opponent's ults better than them. We saw that with Gnar but it goes for many champions.
Sylas is the worst designed champion in league. He comes with a built in sheen and tiamat, so hitting his abilities isn’t important. He has a skill shot gapcloser but don’t worry because if you miss his w gap closes. Obligatory self healing xD. And of course the point and click ult steal that for some reason comes with it’s own damage ratios so you can steal utility ults and get crazy utility on a high damage ultimate.
On May 21 2019 04:01 Slusher wrote: Sylas is the worst designed champion in league. He comes with a built in sheen and tiamat, so hitting his abilities isn’t important. He has a skill shot gapcloser but don’t worry because if you miss his w gap closes. Obligatory self healing xD. And of course the point and click ult steal that for some reason comes with it’s own damage ratios so you can steal utility ults and get crazy utility on a high damage ultimate.
Don't forget the ability that heals' damage executes and gives bonus healing when you're low.
On May 20 2019 19:33 DarkCore wrote: Yes, the problem with Sylas is that now that he's been out long enough, players are good enough to exploit all of his incredibly unique and almost contradictory interactions with ultimate. I mentioned it months ago, but stuff like 'Sylas stealing Kindred ult makes the champion feel like a suicidal pick' has become more nuanced, this tournament I noted that Sylas is a great pick when enemy team picks top Neeko, because he gets to grab that ultimate and hence the insane AP ratios. We also saw Faker faking Gnar, it was well played by him, but in the PB it would make me hesitate picking Gnar, which is beyond stupid. Liss, who I'm glad is out of the meta, is also prone to her own ultimate. Syla kit is already quite good, he's a massive lane bully, but his ultimate is just so incredibly gimmicky from a balance perspective.
Akali and Rek'Sai are my next two champs on the problem list. Don't think I need to go much into Akali, she's just too strong right now. The problem with Rek'Sai is that she snowballs way too hard in the hands of capable teams. Her downside is that she falls off pretty hard, but champions with basically flip coin snowballing are badly balanced imo. Enemy early game basically revolves around 'don't ever, ever, ever fight Rek'Sai 2vs2 if you don't insta blow someone up', because she does more damage with red than both opponents combined.
Rek'sai is far weaker now on live patch. The problem for Sylas remains that he uses his opponent's ults better than them. We saw that with Gnar but it goes for many champions.
I don't think the ult steal is inherently a broken or bad idea. But its implemented so stupidly. Why is the cooldown at ranks 2 & 3 so much shorter than other impactful ults? It should be on the Sylas not to steal something crappy like Corki or Zoe ult. As it is he can have a stored Karthus ult, then jump in on enemies at 60%, steal an Amumu ult, wreck everybody, then waltz out and maybe even do a 3rd ult during the chasedown.
The cooldown is probably because they were trying to recreate the Rubick fantasy inside of league, if you have an aghs on Rubick, you pretty much only cast other people spells in a team fight and casting multiple ults is a really cool outplay. However this translates poorly for 2 reasons 1)Spell scaling in Dota is minimal compared to league, we're talking like ~5% increase is a lot, so a spell that's intended for damage will do damage and a spell that's intended for utility will be utility. 2)Counterplay, Rubick ult is also point and click, however he can only steal the last spell casted so you can counterplay it by having a spell on deck to use directly after, or you can target him with your ult becuase he loses his stolen spell on death.
(this also prevents the mega tilting level 6 Sylas casting your ult on you when you are 5)
The lv 5 vs 6 thing is beyond stupid imo, if they ever nerf him (which they will), that would be on the easiest QoL changes to make.
I don't think the ult steal is inherently a broken or bad idea. But its implemented so stupidly.
I disagree, I think the mechanic is gimmicky and inherently broken. There are lots of champions in League at this point which have unorthodox mechanics that set them outside the normal balance 'region'. Almost all of those champs are broken or have been: Ryze, Vlad, Guinsoo/AS ADC off the top of my head. Balancing these champs is hard because they interact so differently with items, but balancing their numbers is also impossible because their kit is the problem, numbers either have no impact (see Akali) or they get nerfed into oblivion.
I agree with your concept of some champs being nearly impossible to balance (this has been my Rengar stance for a long time, as an example), but I don't think Ult stealing is that big of an issue. This is probably just a difference of opinion. But fundamentally you would be using a high cd spellslot for a high impact spell. This does mean you are going to get shit on by Corki and a lot of other champions who don't have high impact ults. Thats just balance. Its a concept for a champ that gets picked 4th/5th.
And it might even be true you have to put the ability on a support to make it work, so that support ults with inflated ratios aren't stolen by a guy with farm. IDK. I just think its easier to balance by an order of magnitude that something like Windwall, Shroud, or Undying Rage .
I don't really play the game anymore, so haven't encountered Sylas in a real game, but judging from watching MSI and the wiki information I think Sylas is ridiculous.
The things that baffle me about the ult: - It changes ad-ratio into ap-ratio - Full ap-ratio is applied. Especially for supportive champs, this is way too strong, because these are balanced around the rest of their kit. - Cooldown is 15 seconds, (if I understand correctly) with CDR you can use 5 different ults in 50 seconds. ??
I also think the mana cost is way too low. For such a strong ability, 200 would be more like it instead of 75.
On May 22 2019 06:43 Yorbon wrote: I don't really play the game anymore, so haven't encountered Sylas in a real game, but judging from watching MSI and the wiki information I think Sylas is ridiculous.
The things that baffle me about the ult: - It changes ad-ratio into ap-ratio - Full ap-ratio is applied. Especially for supportive champs, this is way too strong, because these are balanced around the rest of their kit. - Cooldown is 15 seconds, (if I understand correctly) with CDR you can use 5 different ults in 50 seconds. ??
I also think the mana cost is way too low. For such a strong ability, 200 would be more like it instead of 75.
But that's my noob pov.
The justification for the 15s lv 3 ult I believe is that Sylas is supposed to be pretty bad in late game fights (in reality, I'd say it's entirely matchup dependent, because if he gets a Karthus ult then lategame he's dealing big damage). Also, most team fights don't last long enough for him to get more than 1 or 2 ults off. I can't think of a situation where I thought Sylas getting too many ults was the reason his team won. Not to mention there's a good chance that there are a few ults he can't do anything with, stealing Jayce ult is nice for lane but not in a team fight.
This does mean you are going to get shit on by Corki and a lot of other champions who don't have high impact ults.
In a team fight, Corki ult isn't great on Sylas, but it is annoying to play against in lane, the same way that stealing Jayce ult actually makes him viable into the matchup. But the bigger problem is that Sylas has a choice of 5 ultimates in fights, there is no need for him to steal Corki ultimate if he doesn't see value in it. And that is what is problematic, at pro level, you got a player like Faker who suddenly has access to 5, often powerful, abilities that are designed to be game changing. Smart players can abuse that so hard, there are just so many scenarios as the non-Sylas team that you have to consider, the burden of thought is not on Sylas but he also gets rewarded for using his brain.
EPT
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/FUry2ZH.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/SySREyd.png)
