• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:00
CEST 11:00
KST 18:00
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors4Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists22
Community News
RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event10Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists MaNa leaves Team Liquid
Tourneys
StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) $1,400 SEL Season 3 Ladder Invitational RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) SC2 INu's Battles#15 <BO.9 2Matches>
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
Why there arent any 256x256 pro maps? BW General Discussion ASL21 General Discussion [ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 3 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread OutLive 25 (RTS Game) Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Movie Stars In Video Games: …
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1229 users

[OGN] PandoraTV Champions Winter 2013-14 - Page 122

Forum Index > LoL Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 120 121 122 123 124 195 Next
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
January 03 2014 22:41 GMT
#2421
On January 04 2014 07:28 UmberBane wrote:
Also I think nobody would argue against it if you said that the League scene today, especially in Korea, is much more competitive than it has ever been, especially way back in S2. Which makes it even more impressive what SKT have done. Thorin called it "one of the best storylines in esports history, nevermind just LoL in 2013", which seems understandable.

Yeah, their dominance in the scene is truly something to behold. I'm a Bullets fan, but I would be totally fine with SKT winning again because of how awesome the storyline is.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-03 22:54:08
January 03 2014 22:47 GMT
#2422
fandom is ultimately about big stars and big teams. hype is good for the scene even if not entirely rational. (though 'hyping' skt would be like hyping flash circa 2008, basically as rational as you can get)
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
January 04 2014 15:59 GMT
#2423
I just noticed that OGN doesnt seem to like Ziggs too much? Was he picked at all? (Only watched the quarterfinals this season)
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
January 04 2014 16:21 GMT
#2424
i think maknoon used ziggs in the group stages, but that might have just been at iem
GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
January 04 2014 22:02 GMT
#2425
Poor frost

Shy feels like the only truly strong player on the team

Space/madlife feel like they're stuck in the end of s3 when ezreal/vayne/thresh/blitz were among the strongest champs in botlane. Space's lucian is kinda uninspiring, thresh and blitz both have a hard time against a lot of the meta supports (or at least I think they do, esp. leona).

Helios is terrible, and all the Frost midlaners are just below strength. It's kind of terrifying how they've managed to acquire three midlaners that are all not good enough for OGN, even if GBM did show some promise last season. It's also an idiotic way to run the team, because giving GBM playtime in the quarters after sitting out most/all of the group stage is not the best way to build team coordination.

Like pretty much everyone else, I feel like they need to wipe mid/jung players from the org... I would say also bring in subs for botlane, or, at the very least replace space and bring in a Madlife sub - as much as I love his plays, relying on old champs 3x in a row isn't very inspiring - there's a reason thresh and blitz weren't banned -_-;;
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
January 04 2014 22:16 GMT
#2426
Thresh is still really strong, the reason Madlife can't go with Leona though is because his team is always way too far behind to commit to that kind of aggression. Frost is literally so weak right now compared with the true top 8/10 OGN teams that even a good Leona play midgame is really just going to get his team aced.
Freeeeeeedom
GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
January 05 2014 01:17 GMT
#2427
On January 05 2014 07:16 cLutZ wrote:
Thresh is still really strong, the reason Madlife can't go with Leona though is because his team is always way too far behind to commit to that kind of aggression. Frost is literally so weak right now compared with the true top 8/10 OGN teams that even a good Leona play midgame is really just going to get his team aced.


Oh yeah I didn't actually think about that part, lol~
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
January 05 2014 01:23 GMT
#2428
On January 05 2014 01:21 chalice wrote:
i think maknoon used ziggs in the group stages, but that might have just been at iem

I think he used it at IEM vs SAJ, then again frost could have run donger vs SAJ and probably still win.
Glorious SEA doto
baekgom84
Profile Joined May 2013
Korea (South)375 Posts
January 05 2014 05:54 GMT
#2429
Here's my tinfoil hat theory about Frost: their roster is designed for marketability, not so much winning games. We've seen how resistant the fans of popular teams can be to roster changes in other regions (think EG, TSM etc) and the CJ teams are (or at least were) by far the most popular teams in Korea; they also seem to have the most PR and interaction with the fans. If you look at their roster changes from a marketing perspective, it makes sense: you take Helios, a jungle who had been having issues, but was familiar with the team's fans; you take Ganked By Mom, who has a limited champion pool but is funny, outgoing and wears a bow-tie, and you take Maknoon, an out-of-form toplaner inexplicably converted to mid, but who is also a huge name in LoL, both in and out of Korea. You also have Space, who to be fair was quite a good player a season or two ago, but who I'm guessing CJ will be unwilling to let go despite his form issues simply because he is... adorable.

I mean, none of these changes really made sense to me in terms of building strength. Teams like KT and SKT have shown a level of pragmatism and ruthlessness in adjusting the rosters of underperforming teams, but they always try to promote promising new talent, or poach players currently at the top of their game. Blaze has taken this approach and is much stronger for it, but Frost is now stuck with a bunch of also-rans and has-beens. It seems fairly obvious to me that Frost need a new jungler, and need to replace their entire mid roster, as well as bringing in a sub for AD (move Captain Jack maybe). I guess we'll see what they decide to do in the off-season.
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
January 05 2014 06:22 GMT
#2430
The cheers for Frost were insane considering how mediocre they've been performing. Branding is king.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
January 05 2014 09:41 GMT
#2431
that approach may work now but it's not a long term strategy. plus, they need a lot of improvement on the back stage part of the team. they really need to revamp the coaching staff or get more analysts. given how these first generation teams are more player-run than kespa teams. frost doesn't seem to adapt to s4 changes all that much.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
skykh
Profile Joined September 2012
3006 Posts
January 05 2014 16:45 GMT
#2432
On January 05 2014 15:22 onlywonderboy wrote:
The cheers for Frost were insane considering how mediocre they've been performing. Branding is king.


How long will this last? Look at EG underperforming whole season 3 are behind voting on facebook for iem. World Elite popularity dropped after all the loses+2 members left and Misaya retire. Hell if cloud 9 lose to tsm this season there will a popularity drop.

I guess only TSM and Gambit doesnt have this issues.
Schwopzi
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands954 Posts
January 05 2014 20:16 GMT
#2433
Is OGN going to swap over to the Yasuo patch for the semi's?
Only the dead have seen the end of war
dooraven
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia2820 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-06 07:21:29
January 06 2014 07:19 GMT
#2434
On January 06 2014 01:45 skykh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2014 15:22 onlywonderboy wrote:
The cheers for Frost were insane considering how mediocre they've been performing. Branding is king.


How long will this last? Look at EG underperforming whole season 3 are behind voting on facebook for iem. World Elite popularity dropped after all the loses+2 members left and Misaya retire. Hell if cloud 9 lose to tsm this season there will a popularity drop.

I guess only TSM and Gambit doesnt have this issues.


EG dropped off because EG's members intentionally didn't promote it as Alliance/EG thing was happening. They're still probably the biggest European team in terms of fanbase.
Go go Alliance.
Blitzer
Profile Joined April 2004
Australia243 Posts
January 06 2014 09:26 GMT
#2435
I think Space is pretty decent, however his champion pool was hurt a bit as Vayne/Twitch aren't as good as they were and also playing ad carry is not so much fun when your jungle/midlane is getting owned every game. Madlife is still a very talented mechanical support and Shy is one of the best top laners around.

Helios + their mid have been horrible. I honestly don't know what they need to do to fix this area. Probably recruit a jungler at the very least from solo queue. They need to make some hard decisions on a number of players on their roster. Maknoon may eventually be able to make midlane work with some more practice, next season may be telling for him.
Mess with the best, die like the rest!
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
January 06 2014 09:53 GMT
#2436
make maknoon jungle
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35172 Posts
January 06 2014 10:00 GMT
#2437
On January 06 2014 18:53 oneofthem wrote:
make maknoon jungle

Hotshot, is that you?
RouaF
Profile Joined October 2010
France4121 Posts
January 06 2014 10:38 GMT
#2438
I also don't believe Space is the problem. Carrying as ADC when your team is constantly behind is really really hard. Mid and jungle have been the most important positions for a long time now and I'm sure everyone can see that this is where Frost is lacking.

Hellios didn't perform on blaze and he isn't performing on frost. Rapidstar/gbm have always been decent but not among the best (there's a reason madlife was the one drawing all the bans), now they've clearly fallen behind and maknoon.... he's already part of the older generation and is not even a mid player, really weird choice to pick him up.

Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
January 06 2014 15:10 GMT
#2439
Game 3 pretty much epitomizes Frost's problems: GBM was a non factor, Helios played like utter garbage on Evelynn, and whenever Madlife tries to make a play it results in more deaths on Frost because they're already so far behind. Ozone played very well in this series but Frost certainly didn't make it a hard feat.
Bronze player stuck in platinum
oo_Wonderful_oo
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
The land of freedom23126 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-06 17:59:31
January 06 2014 17:56 GMT
#2440
On January 06 2014 01:45 skykh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2014 15:22 onlywonderboy wrote:
The cheers for Frost were insane considering how mediocre they've been performing. Branding is king.


How long will this last? Look at EG underperforming whole season 3 are behind voting on facebook for iem. World Elite popularity dropped after all the loses+2 members left and Misaya retire. Hell if cloud 9 lose to tsm this season there will a popularity drop.

I guess only TSM and Gambit doesnt have this issues.


Does Gambit really have big popularity?
It feels like only here in Moscow, crowd cheered for them loudly.
At Gamescom there are close to no real support for them with whole EG/Fnatic crowd.


I really hope Frost will be able to strike back.
Shy and Madlife are still top-1/2 in region in their respective positions, Space can't choke so hard always.
They just need stable jungler who will do same hard work as CloudTemplar did for all these years and finally give ONE midlaner FREEDOM. Let him play always, give him confidence. It's last chance probably.
Now or never. #ChampionsSpring #believe #FrozenKingdom
LiquidLegends StaffFPL 25 #1 | tfw I cast games on-air | back-to-back Liquibet winner
Prev 1 120 121 122 123 124 195 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
09:00
WardiTV Mondays #80
CranKy Ducklings17
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech144
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 2505
Killer 864
Soulkey 410
Zeus 333
910 273
BeSt 163
Larva 122
SilentControl 90
Hm[arnc] 67
JulyZerg 55
[ Show more ]
ToSsGirL 46
soO 31
Sacsri 28
GoRush 24
Sharp 21
hero 7
Terrorterran 5
Dota 2
monkeys_forever283
NeuroSwarm121
canceldota58
League of Legends
JimRising 545
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox691
Other Games
ceh9585
ToD70
RuFF_SC236
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream60
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 31
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP7
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1112
• TFBlade495
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
1h
Jaedong vs Light
Wardi Open
2h
Monday Night Weeklies
7h
Replay Cast
15h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 1h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 1h
Snow vs Flash
WardiTV Invitational
1d 2h
SHIN vs Nicoract
Solar vs Nice
GSL
2 days
Classic vs Cure
Maru vs Rogue
GSL
3 days
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
OSC
3 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Escore
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Zoun vs Ryung
Lambo vs ShoWTimE
Replay Cast
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
SHIN vs Bunny
ByuN vs Shameless
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Rogue
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
BSL
6 days
Replay Cast
7 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-02
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W6
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.