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On September 28 2013 23:21 WhiteDog wrote:Lol the butthurt is strong on this one. Half of the people predicting Royal don't even bother to argument for it : they just prefer royal, and they just don't want europe to win (oddone gf's words). I'm not sure they are wrong tho, I'm always watching fnatic with doubt. They are great but they sometime have a really hard time playing at their best (especially if they pick something they are not great with, unlike most Asian teams who mostly pick the same kind of team comp from what I've seen until now in the tournament).
It's okay, everyone in this thread already knows he's labelled himself a mark many times.
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On September 29 2013 00:58 skykh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2013 00:42 Volband wrote:
I've never been happier to leave a fully played bo5 during the second game. I don't know if I should blame Riot or it's just the pro scene that's so not flexible sometimes, but that limited champion pool is driving me crazy. "Koreans; Faker's got tremendous champion pool; blabla" - and then we get this.
I'm fully aware that they it'ss pretty much a must to pick currently broken champs, but don't tell me it's fine when 17 champion is used in 5 games of a bo5 (21 with the bans). Whatever, random rant.
Let's hope Fnatic puts up a good fight. In my heart I'm believin', but those Royal games still give me nightmares. It should've been 18+. So both teams battle for 1million dollar and u think they will risk will other picks? Aatrox obv is failed pick for bengi so they went for safe route.
No, I think a professional player is supposed to have a larger efficent champion pool. Picking something weirded you are still badass with is not much more of a handicap than constantly picking from your champion pool of 2 (god forbid 3), which the enemy team has not only analyzed prior to the match, but they also had 4 additional games about you coming into the 5th and last game.
Usually I rant about that there are many un- or just very rarely used, but completely viable champions, but that's not even the case here. This makes me miss boring stuff, like Jarvan or Zac (lol) as well. Even if today's match ends after 3 games, I'm convinced we'll see more than 21 champions used or banned.
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United States47024 Posts
It's not at all about individual champion pool. It's about the draft.
Most of these players are probably individually proficient with more champs, but whether the team has practiced, is willing, or even feels its necessary to draft anything different is another matter.
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Zac is just Renekton that does not bully in lane now that he can actually be CC'd in teamfights.
I'm actually not sure why Jarvan was not tried, especially for the teams that had chosen Jax, I guess in Bengi's case the fact that he really dosen't buy selfish items makes J4 ult fall off terribly late game, couldn't tell you for watch.
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On September 29 2013 01:54 TheYango wrote:
It's not at all about individual champion pool. It's about the draft.
Most of these players are probably individually proficient with more champs, but whether the team has practiced, is willing, or even feels its necessary to draft anything different is another matter.
Then the question: why do teams come with seemingly the same strategy into every single game in a bo5? I'd understand if it's a bo3, much riskier (though the reward is higher too), but hell, in a Bo5 you could not only use at LEAST 2-3 (completely?) different strategies/draft, but even throw something cheesy there.
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On September 29 2013 01:20 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2013 00:58 skykh wrote:On September 29 2013 00:42 Volband wrote:
I've never been happier to leave a fully played bo5 during the second game. I don't know if I should blame Riot or it's just the pro scene that's so not flexible sometimes, but that limited champion pool is driving me crazy. "Koreans; Faker's got tremendous champion pool; blabla" - and then we get this.
I'm fully aware that they it'ss pretty much a must to pick currently broken champs, but don't tell me it's fine when 17 champion is used in 5 games of a bo5 (21 with the bans). Whatever, random rant.
Let's hope Fnatic puts up a good fight. In my heart I'm believin', but those Royal games still give me nightmares. It should've been 18+. So both teams battle for 1million dollar and u think they will risk will other picks? Aatrox obv is failed pick for bengi so they went for safe route. Still pretty disgusting how limited the pool is. I don't think it's the Teams fault or the game balance. It's squarely on the drafting system.
I'd argue it's a little bit of both. Patches tend to give people tunnel vision i.e. see mid and yeah it would be nice to see an adjustment to the drafting/bans.
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If a team thinks that is the best strategy why would they use another?In a stage like this I'd imagine every single player would rather bring out their most comfortable picks than something else.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
dota hero synergies are more powerful. you get these combos and secret tactic strats that have more distinct strengths and weaknesses.
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United States7639 Posts
On September 29 2013 02:07 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2013 01:54 TheYango wrote:
It's not at all about individual champion pool. It's about the draft.
Most of these players are probably individually proficient with more champs, but whether the team has practiced, is willing, or even feels its necessary to draft anything different is another matter. Then the question: why do teams come with seemingly the same strategy into every single game in a bo5? I'd understand if it's a bo3, much riskier (though the reward is higher too), but hell, in a Bo5 you could not only use at LEAST 2-3 (completely?) different strategies/draft, but even throw something cheesy there.
But why would they need to? If SKT does the same comp 3 times and it wins every time, what reason do they have to change that? Najin Sword proved themselves unable to deal with or adapt to those picks, so SKT, if they want to win efficiently, they should just repeat until victory, or until Sword figures it out, which they never did. In fact, it would be beneficial to them to win the series with as few strategies as possible, so they have more cards up their sleeves for the final. If it aint broke, don't fix it.
As for Sword, well, yes, they should have indeed come up with more creative strategies. Or at least an additional one that wouldn't be so simply banned out. I found it pretty surprising and silly that their picks for the 5th game basically just emulated SKT's failed comp from game 1. But hey, that's why they lost and SKT won, so it all works out.
We'll get more variation in series between two teams that adapt very well, forcing each other to switch out strategies and become unpredictable.
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On September 29 2013 02:10 nafta wrote:
If a team thinks that is the best strategy why would they use another?In a stage like this I'd imagine every single player would rather bring out their most comfortable picks than something else.
Is League really a game where there's one single best strategy? The game balance is quite terrible atm, I know, but it's still far from the BC-era, where you only needed to have more ad casters than the enemy team, and you already won.
That's just sad how limited the pro scene can get, and sadly, most of the time when someone tries something cool and original, they look bad in the end, while it's not even their fault. Nukeduck failing on Swain, which had not much to do with Swain, nukeduck just sucked straight out; bigfat wrecking every lane with Pantheon, then goes full tank; or that Korean team that lost with Malzahar, and everyone could say "aaaahhh yes, they shouldn't have picked that useless champ!", but truth is, he perfromed the best in those games.
So, if you'd give that Pantheon jungle to someone who can actually jungle (sorry jiji), or Swain to someone who doesn't get shy in the world's stage, then they could be perfectly fine, even if just for one game. I'd like to think these professional teams come up with many-many scenarios for every possible outcome, and are ready to switch between their strategies (obviously, if someone is 2-0 using the same one, then there's no point to use sth else for the 3rd game), but no. "Umm, guys, this team comp looks pretty solid, let's play this every game, mhhkaaaaay?? It even saves us practice time!"
How many champs do we have currently? More than 110? Even if we exclude the "complete shit" tier (which could still have their very own niche in like every 100th game or sth), there's still aplenty left.
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On September 29 2013 02:14 Lylat wrote:LOL Tabe is the best
That Wildturtle face though :D
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I'm not really sure why the teams in this series kept going back to the Ahri / Shen well that I'll give you, but (I didn't see game 3) Piglet/Bengi/Mandu really never got shut down from doing what they wanted to do enough to question their picks.
actually I take the first part of that partially back, Ahri and Shen are completely different picks when you throw in the Nocturne, So in that case I would say you are wrong even though the picks look similar on paper.
and Shen was actually doing well in lane thanks to getting Nocturne's first ult, the problem was his other ults were pretty awful, ulting mid after all 3 spirit rushs were already used, ulting bottom to save Prey from himself stadning next to two zyra plants killing him for no reason whatsoever, which completely let Jax back into a game he was out of.
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honestly the only picks I don't understand are game 3's picks (not counting game 4 since I didn't watch game 3)
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On September 29 2013 02:28 Anakko wrote:That Wildturtle face though :D
I wonder often what is actually going through WildTurtle's mind.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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That's some pretty badass pics you got there. Cannot wait to see what it's like at the Staples Center shesh.
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On September 29 2013 00:42 Volband wrote:
I've never been happier to leave a fully played bo5 during the second game. I don't know if I should blame Riot or it's just the pro scene that's so not flexible sometimes, but that limited champion pool is driving me crazy. "Koreans; Faker's got tremendous champion pool; blabla" - and then we get this.
I'm fully aware that they it'ss pretty much a must to pick currently broken champs, but don't tell me it's fine when 17 champion is used in 5 games of a bo5 (21 with the bans). Whatever, random rant.
Let's hope Fnatic puts up a good fight. In my heart I'm believin', but those Royal games still give me nightmares. It should've been 18+.
I am on the same boat, aout mid of second game I left the series, games seemed so lackluster.
Lol needs more champions to be viable. I dont know how that can be doe, but needs to be done :/ (Maybe putting more power in items and reducing the power in champions?)
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On September 29 2013 02:40 randomKo_Orean wrote:
Here's some pictures from the event. I'm going to add more as soon as I get more pictures from my friend:
I see empty seats #deadgame !
That Katarina gave me a hardon.
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EPT
