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On September 21 2013 01:13 Kiett wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 00:57 Sandster wrote:
I really want to know what Ozone's coaches have been doing - letting Fnatic get Zed, Kass, Corki, and Aatrox??? Then again Gambit is almost Ozone level in horrendous pick/ban phases. Apparently in Korea, Aatrox is considered a crap jungler. From reddit: Show nested quote +in Korean meta Aatrox is considered a very weak champion and most Korean teams will be glad for it to be picked by the other team. The casters/analysts on the korean stream said he is too easily countered and is very weak without his passive up (lose in a countergank). It was tried in Korea after seeing the success in Europe but quickly dropped Also, after the Gambit vs Ozone game, CloudTemplar said on broadcast:Show nested quote +Im happy that ozone showed that korean's fast pace game still works. and especially europeans use aatrox jungle and koreans weren't doing so well against him, but this game ozone showed 'this is why you dont play aatrox jungle.' As for Zed/Kass, they just got mind-gamed and outdrafted. The Liss/Fiddle was supposed to counter the Zed pick I think, but they weren't expecting to have to shut down 2 assassins. So they focused on shitting on Peke's Kass, which they did very well, but it basically let Soaz freefarm all game bot lane. Dade feeding on a champ he's never played competitively before didn't help either  Corki... I have no idea. I guess Imp just still doesn't respect Corki enough to either play him or ban him or counter him properly lol.
And in NA/EU, we would consider Annie a crap pick too, but no one is going to let Royal get Annie.
If a professional coach is too mired in groupthink in thinking champions are weak, and refuse to admit that certain players simply excel on those champions (e.g. Zion with Riven), you don't deserve to be a coach. NA/EU teams don't even have dedicated coaches and still outdrafted Ozone HARD.
Ozone gave Fnatic their 3 favorite/best champions, and extremely strong picks to the other 2. They deserve to lose that game.
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hey TSM ran that annie support mang. it's their s3secretdoc.docx
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Shit son, KissBlade will have to find a lot of excuses to actually make us believe Ozone is still the best team in the group.
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On September 21 2013 01:26 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 01:13 Kiett wrote:On September 21 2013 00:57 Sandster wrote:
I really want to know what Ozone's coaches have been doing - letting Fnatic get Zed, Kass, Corki, and Aatrox??? Then again Gambit is almost Ozone level in horrendous pick/ban phases. Corki... I have no idea. I guess Imp just still doesn't respect Corki enough to either play him or ban him or counter him properly lol. Based on his perfromance from midgame onwards, he doesn't respect anything. On the bright side, it's a pretty good synergy with Mata, Imp: "Imma die for the l0lz, k?" Mata: "Cool man, lemme ult that creep wave for you!" Imp and Mata: "best botlane in the woooooooorld!"
I watched some of that match again, and at least one of those ults was Mata standing on top of a ward, then starting his ult when Soaz was farming mid. Soaz obviously was long gone before the channel even finished, and with the slowness of the observer, made Mata look (even more) foolish.
Still, hoping that Fiddle can prevent Zed from escaping crowstorm when his silence has a travel time is kinda bleh
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I've been thinking a lot about what Yango said about TPA. They were a very good team, and that meta favoured them and their best champions which propelled them to the s2 championship. I think we may have to consider that the same thing is happening for fnatic.
xPeke and SoAz are both benefiting from the age of mobile assassins. xPeke plays the assassins well (Ahri and Kass in particular) and also has good control mids in Orianna and Lissandra. SoAz is the Zed player and plays a massive variety of top champions, including top priority picks like Shen and Zac as well as some oddball picks like Lissandra.
Cyanide is having success with his Aatrox and its pretty clear that certain teams don't know how to deal with it. He also plays Lee and Elise, two of the other top jungle picks.
Puszu looks like a world class AD carry because he can play a great Corki (#1 ad carry at the moment), or fall back to his default picks in Ashe and Varus, giving fnatic a range of options to build a comp around.
I think the biggest thing is that fnatic is becoming impossible to ban out. You *have* to ban out xPeke's Kassadin - now you probably want to take away his Ahri too, as well as deny Puzsu his Corki, but you also wouldn't mind taking away Cyanide's Aatrox as well...and who can forget about the potential SoAz Zed? Suddenly you come to realize that you have to give fnatic at least some of their champs, which gives fnatic a huge advantage in the picks and bans phase. They play all the top tier champs well and even better know how to form teamcomps around them.
tldr; fnatic could be this years TPA
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On September 21 2013 01:56 WhiteDog wrote:
Shit son, KissBlade will have to find a lot of excuses to actually make us believe Ozone is still the best team in the group.
Err why was I brought up randomly? I didn't even really post or read this thread but just for reference I actually thought GG & Fnatic was going to make it out of this group and thought GG were going to take Ozone last night.
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Just watched the vods and as much as dade is hilarious, when did yellowstar turn into an incredible support? Like, that zyra play and those roots were outstanding
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On September 21 2013 02:02 Amethyst21 wrote:
I've been thinking a lot about what Yango said about TPA. They were a very good team, and that meta favoured them and their best champions which propelled them to the s2 championship. I think we may have to consider that the same thing is happening for fnatic.
xPeke and SoAz are both benefiting from the age of mobile assassins. xPeke plays the assassins well (Ahri and Kass in particular) and also has good control mids in Orianna and Lissandra. SoAz is the Zed player and plays a massive variety of top champions, including top priority picks like Shen and Zac as well as some oddball picks like Lissandra.
Cyanide is having success with his Aatrox and its pretty clear that certain teams don't know how to deal with it. He also plays Lee and Elise, two of the other top jungle picks.
Puszu looks like a world class AD carry because he can play a great Corki (#1 ad carry at the moment), or fall back to his default picks in Ashe and Varus, giving fnatic a range of options to build a comp around.
I think the biggest thing is that fnatic is becoming impossible to ban out. You *have* to ban out xPeke's Kassadin - now you probably want to take away his Ahri too, as well as deny Puzsu his Corki, but you also wouldn't mind taking away Cyanide's Aatrox as well...and who can forget about the potential SoAz Zed? Suddenly you come to realize that you have to give fnatic at least some of their champs, which gives fnatic a huge advantage in the picks and bans phase. They play all the top tier champs well and even better know how to form teamcomps around them.
tldr; fnatic could be this years TPA
you didn't mention him but Yellowstar has improved soooo much for this tournament. Only one that still has the balls to play leona and 3:0 + respect ban from a korean team so far.
I can even leave my hate for him over N-rated's kick behind seeing him play such a great support :D
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I don't know why people banned his Leona since he misses 2 crucial ults, Nrated's leona was way more scary but just didn't buy any items...
Pretty poor waste of ban, I'd rather deal with leona than corki or kass or zed...
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On September 21 2013 02:14 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 02:02 Amethyst21 wrote:
I've been thinking a lot about what Yango said about TPA. They were a very good team, and that meta favoured them and their best champions which propelled them to the s2 championship. I think we may have to consider that the same thing is happening for fnatic.
xPeke and SoAz are both benefiting from the age of mobile assassins. xPeke plays the assassins well (Ahri and Kass in particular) and also has good control mids in Orianna and Lissandra. SoAz is the Zed player and plays a massive variety of top champions, including top priority picks like Shen and Zac as well as some oddball picks like Lissandra.
Cyanide is having success with his Aatrox and its pretty clear that certain teams don't know how to deal with it. He also plays Lee and Elise, two of the other top jungle picks.
Puszu looks like a world class AD carry because he can play a great Corki (#1 ad carry at the moment), or fall back to his default picks in Ashe and Varus, giving fnatic a range of options to build a comp around.
I think the biggest thing is that fnatic is becoming impossible to ban out. You *have* to ban out xPeke's Kassadin - now you probably want to take away his Ahri too, as well as deny Puzsu his Corki, but you also wouldn't mind taking away Cyanide's Aatrox as well...and who can forget about the potential SoAz Zed? Suddenly you come to realize that you have to give fnatic at least some of their champs, which gives fnatic a huge advantage in the picks and bans phase. They play all the top tier champs well and even better know how to form teamcomps around them.
tldr; fnatic could be this years TPA you didn't mention him but Yellowstar has improved soooo much for this tournament. Only one that still has the balls to play leona and 3:0 + respect ban from a korean team so far. I can even leave my hate for him over N-rated's kick behind seeing him play such a great support :D
Yeah Yellowstar has really impressed. Always thought he was good in lane, but terrible outside of lane, but he's been playing really well all championship. As you said the fact he drew a BAN on Leona is pretty insane. (It was a dumb ban but still)
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On September 21 2013 02:14 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 02:02 Amethyst21 wrote:
I've been thinking a lot about what Yango said about TPA. They were a very good team, and that meta favoured them and their best champions which propelled them to the s2 championship. I think we may have to consider that the same thing is happening for fnatic.
xPeke and SoAz are both benefiting from the age of mobile assassins. xPeke plays the assassins well (Ahri and Kass in particular) and also has good control mids in Orianna and Lissandra. SoAz is the Zed player and plays a massive variety of top champions, including top priority picks like Shen and Zac as well as some oddball picks like Lissandra.
Cyanide is having success with his Aatrox and its pretty clear that certain teams don't know how to deal with it. He also plays Lee and Elise, two of the other top jungle picks.
Puszu looks like a world class AD carry because he can play a great Corki (#1 ad carry at the moment), or fall back to his default picks in Ashe and Varus, giving fnatic a range of options to build a comp around.
I think the biggest thing is that fnatic is becoming impossible to ban out. You *have* to ban out xPeke's Kassadin - now you probably want to take away his Ahri too, as well as deny Puzsu his Corki, but you also wouldn't mind taking away Cyanide's Aatrox as well...and who can forget about the potential SoAz Zed? Suddenly you come to realize that you have to give fnatic at least some of their champs, which gives fnatic a huge advantage in the picks and bans phase. They play all the top tier champs well and even better know how to form teamcomps around them.
tldr; fnatic could be this years TPA you didn't mention him but Yellowstar has improved soooo much for this tournament. Only one that still has the balls to play leona and 3:0 + respect ban from a korean team SSO so far.
It's impressive, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
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On September 21 2013 01:51 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 01:13 Kiett wrote:On September 21 2013 00:57 Sandster wrote:
I really want to know what Ozone's coaches have been doing - letting Fnatic get Zed, Kass, Corki, and Aatrox??? Then again Gambit is almost Ozone level in horrendous pick/ban phases. Apparently in Korea, Aatrox is considered a crap jungler. From reddit: in Korean meta Aatrox is considered a very weak champion and most Korean teams will be glad for it to be picked by the other team. The casters/analysts on the korean stream said he is too easily countered and is very weak without his passive up (lose in a countergank). It was tried in Korea after seeing the success in Europe but quickly dropped Also, after the Gambit vs Ozone game, CloudTemplar said on broadcast:Im happy that ozone showed that korean's fast pace game still works. and especially europeans use aatrox jungle and koreans weren't doing so well against him, but this game ozone showed 'this is why you dont play aatrox jungle.' As for Zed/Kass, they just got mind-gamed and outdrafted. The Liss/Fiddle was supposed to counter the Zed pick I think, but they weren't expecting to have to shut down 2 assassins. So they focused on shitting on Peke's Kass, which they did very well, but it basically let Soaz freefarm all game bot lane. Dade feeding on a champ he's never played competitively before didn't help either Corki... I have no idea. I guess Imp just still doesn't respect Corki enough to either play him or ban him or counter him properly lol. And in NA/EU, we would consider Annie a crap pick too, but no one is going to let Royal get Annie. If a professional coach is too mired in groupthink in thinking champions are weak, and refuse to admit that certain players simply excel on those champions (e.g. Zion with Riven), you don't deserve to be a coach. NA/EU teams don't even have dedicated coaches and still outdrafted Ozone HARD. Ozone gave Fnatic their 3 favorite/best champions, and extremely strong picks to the other 2. They deserve to lose that game.
Agreed. Worlds has really shown some glaring issues with the KR scene.
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On September 21 2013 02:19 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 02:14 AsnSensation wrote:On September 21 2013 02:02 Amethyst21 wrote:
I've been thinking a lot about what Yango said about TPA. They were a very good team, and that meta favoured them and their best champions which propelled them to the s2 championship. I think we may have to consider that the same thing is happening for fnatic.
xPeke and SoAz are both benefiting from the age of mobile assassins. xPeke plays the assassins well (Ahri and Kass in particular) and also has good control mids in Orianna and Lissandra. SoAz is the Zed player and plays a massive variety of top champions, including top priority picks like Shen and Zac as well as some oddball picks like Lissandra.
Cyanide is having success with his Aatrox and its pretty clear that certain teams don't know how to deal with it. He also plays Lee and Elise, two of the other top jungle picks.
Puszu looks like a world class AD carry because he can play a great Corki (#1 ad carry at the moment), or fall back to his default picks in Ashe and Varus, giving fnatic a range of options to build a comp around.
I think the biggest thing is that fnatic is becoming impossible to ban out. You *have* to ban out xPeke's Kassadin - now you probably want to take away his Ahri too, as well as deny Puzsu his Corki, but you also wouldn't mind taking away Cyanide's Aatrox as well...and who can forget about the potential SoAz Zed? Suddenly you come to realize that you have to give fnatic at least some of their champs, which gives fnatic a huge advantage in the picks and bans phase. They play all the top tier champs well and even better know how to form teamcomps around them.
tldr; fnatic could be this years TPA you didn't mention him but Yellowstar has improved soooo much for this tournament. Only one that still has the balls to play leona and 3:0 + respect ban from a korean team SSO so far. It's impressive, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
wait are you saying SSO is not a korean team?
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Fnatic constantly uses different tactics against Samsung, first was double AP, then double assassin. Those strategies are not conventional in Korea, or even Fnatic standard. I mean, if you look at Fnatic's games in Worlds and Summer split games, they've never done this before to any teams. It's impossible to research Fnatic's strategy if you've never seen before. Fnatic kept throwing new stuff at Samsung that they really don't know how to predict. I don't think it's Samsung's fault, but more like Fnatic's good strategies. If Fnatic were able to apply the same unpredictable strategies to any other teams, even OMG or SKT T1, chances were they would win against them too unless OMG and SKT are vastly superior in individual skills.
So if you think about it, their real lost is the game against Gambit, where they underestimate Gambit and try to run Ryze+Singed because it worked the first time against Vulcun.
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On September 21 2013 02:24 heartlxp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 02:19 Volband wrote:On September 21 2013 02:14 AsnSensation wrote:On September 21 2013 02:02 Amethyst21 wrote:
I've been thinking a lot about what Yango said about TPA. They were a very good team, and that meta favoured them and their best champions which propelled them to the s2 championship. I think we may have to consider that the same thing is happening for fnatic.
xPeke and SoAz are both benefiting from the age of mobile assassins. xPeke plays the assassins well (Ahri and Kass in particular) and also has good control mids in Orianna and Lissandra. SoAz is the Zed player and plays a massive variety of top champions, including top priority picks like Shen and Zac as well as some oddball picks like Lissandra.
Cyanide is having success with his Aatrox and its pretty clear that certain teams don't know how to deal with it. He also plays Lee and Elise, two of the other top jungle picks.
Puszu looks like a world class AD carry because he can play a great Corki (#1 ad carry at the moment), or fall back to his default picks in Ashe and Varus, giving fnatic a range of options to build a comp around.
I think the biggest thing is that fnatic is becoming impossible to ban out. You *have* to ban out xPeke's Kassadin - now you probably want to take away his Ahri too, as well as deny Puzsu his Corki, but you also wouldn't mind taking away Cyanide's Aatrox as well...and who can forget about the potential SoAz Zed? Suddenly you come to realize that you have to give fnatic at least some of their champs, which gives fnatic a huge advantage in the picks and bans phase. They play all the top tier champs well and even better know how to form teamcomps around them.
tldr; fnatic could be this years TPA you didn't mention him but Yellowstar has improved soooo much for this tournament. Only one that still has the balls to play leona and 3:0 + respect ban from a korean team SSO so far. It's impressive, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. wait are you saying SSO is not a korean team?
Technically they are - to much of their shame -, but in that context they are not. What they did so far was everything, but Korean - though Korean fanboiz went crazy, when they snowballed a lead vs Gambit who did everything to make the worst possible team comp. ever againts SSO.
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On September 21 2013 02:24 heartlxp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 02:19 Volband wrote:On September 21 2013 02:14 AsnSensation wrote:On September 21 2013 02:02 Amethyst21 wrote:
I've been thinking a lot about what Yango said about TPA. They were a very good team, and that meta favoured them and their best champions which propelled them to the s2 championship. I think we may have to consider that the same thing is happening for fnatic.
xPeke and SoAz are both benefiting from the age of mobile assassins. xPeke plays the assassins well (Ahri and Kass in particular) and also has good control mids in Orianna and Lissandra. SoAz is the Zed player and plays a massive variety of top champions, including top priority picks like Shen and Zac as well as some oddball picks like Lissandra.
Cyanide is having success with his Aatrox and its pretty clear that certain teams don't know how to deal with it. He also plays Lee and Elise, two of the other top jungle picks.
Puszu looks like a world class AD carry because he can play a great Corki (#1 ad carry at the moment), or fall back to his default picks in Ashe and Varus, giving fnatic a range of options to build a comp around.
I think the biggest thing is that fnatic is becoming impossible to ban out. You *have* to ban out xPeke's Kassadin - now you probably want to take away his Ahri too, as well as deny Puzsu his Corki, but you also wouldn't mind taking away Cyanide's Aatrox as well...and who can forget about the potential SoAz Zed? Suddenly you come to realize that you have to give fnatic at least some of their champs, which gives fnatic a huge advantage in the picks and bans phase. They play all the top tier champs well and even better know how to form teamcomps around them.
tldr; fnatic could be this years TPA you didn't mention him but Yellowstar has improved soooo much for this tournament. Only one that still has the balls to play leona and 3:0 + respect ban from a korean team SSO so far. It's impressive, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. wait are you saying SSO is not a korean team?
Koreans stop being Korean when they lose.
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On September 21 2013 01:31 nath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2013 22:16 Spaiku wrote:On September 20 2013 22:06 Cubu wrote:On September 20 2013 18:34 napo wrote:
If it was the other way around, the Koreans would probably throw the game. It's well-known that any foreigner couldnt find practice partners in KR due to people leaking replays (in sc2 that is). So I won't feel ashamed if Fnatic throws the game to Gambit. I'm pretty sure foreigners had practice partners in KR. And even if what you said was true, two wrongs don't make a right. The story about koreans leaking foreigner replays in sc2 were punctual accusations (mostly Naniwa) and were never proven lol not just naniwa for sc2. and it happened in BW too.
Source? It didn't happen to anyone in BW, why would koreans want BW replays of foreigners anyway
Pls stop talking out of your ass
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To be fair - Leona has always loved laning with Corki, and so that is a ridiculously strong bot lane right now.
But then ban the freaking Corki, not the Leona. Oh my god my head hurts.
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On September 21 2013 02:24 heartlxp wrote:
wait are you saying SSO is not a korean team?
He's saying, because one korean team is doing bad, you don't have to say Korea as a whole sucks.
SKT is decent, SSO is not.
Edit: oops I reread the initial post, nevermind, it's still a korean team.
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On September 21 2013 02:11 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 01:56 WhiteDog wrote:
Shit son, KissBlade will have to find a lot of excuses to actually make us believe Ozone is still the best team in the group. Err why was I brought up randomly? I didn't even really post or read this thread but just for reference I actually thought GG & Fnatic was going to make it out of this group and thought GG were going to take Ozone last night.
It's because of jetlag.
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EPT
