EPThis play is so cringeworthy and soloqueue superstar like.
like, why the fk would you do this. why can't clgeu be a normal team and just give farm to ad carry lol
[IPL] IPL5 Discussion - Page 395
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tobi9999
United States1966 Posts
his play is so cringeworthy and soloqueue superstar like. like, why the fk would you do this. why can't clgeu be a normal team and just give farm to ad carry lol | ||
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ihasaKAROT
Netherlands4730 Posts
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Zhiroo
Kosovo2724 Posts
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chroniX
517 Posts
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
Although doublelift and bebe didnt get the chance to play him | ||
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Lylat
France8575 Posts
M5 and TPA also delivered some sick games. I was even pleasantly surprised by CLG.NA, even if it's not my favorite team they played some good games. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
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ihasaKAROT
Netherlands4730 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On December 03 2012 21:30 tobi9999 wrote: sigh, Froggen... his play is so cringeworthy and soloqueue superstar like. like, why the fk would you do this. why can't clgeu be a normal team and just give farm to ad carry lol He instacleared the wave so that they could run down the river and take out mid turret. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On December 03 2012 22:04 AsnSensation wrote: He was the only player this tournament that kept up/out csed wx Although doublelift and bebe didnt get the chance to play him Bebe didn't get the chance to play against him what? Fnatic 2-0'd TPA. Or do you mean that they weren't 2v2 laning against each other in those games? | ||
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ihasaKAROT
Netherlands4730 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 03 2012 23:32 sylverfyre wrote: He instacleared the wave so that they could run down the river and take out mid turret. TBH it's a lot more egregious the game he played Lee Sin against WE. You can make an argument for Anivia's fairly high farm priority and relatively faster creep clear in a game with Anivia+Ezreal. With Kog+Lee Sin? I don't know what world he's living in where it's normal for Lee to be to be ahead of Kog on CS, and still be getting to farm pushed creep waves while Kog defends pushes. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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DragoonTT
3398 Posts
On December 03 2012 23:54 TheYango wrote: TBH it's a lot more egregious the game he played Lee Sin against WE. You can make an argument for Anivia's fairly high farm priority and relatively faster creep clear in a game with Anivia+Ezreal. With Kog+Lee Sin? I don't know what world he's living in where it's normal for Lee to be to be ahead of Kog on CS, and still be getting to farm pushed creep waves while Kog defends pushes. Using the 1/2/3 system to describe farm allocation (and thereby importance to the game as rated by the team), CLG has 1. Froggen, 2. Wickd, 3. Yellowpete while most other teams have 1. AD 2. AP. 3. Toplane. This often leads to Pete getting underfarmed during the midgame, as Froggen will happily farm two lanes and the jungle if he can do so safely, thereby forcing Pete to choose less safe locations to farm. The CLG.EU/TPA games are good material to analyze this situation. CLG.EU preferring Froggen and Wickd over Pete in terms of safety becomes really obvious in game 3. The early laneswitches put Bebe (Vayne) and Mistake (Lulu) mid against Froggen (Vladimir), Stanley (Rengar) top against Wickd (Rumble) and Toyz (Karthus) against Pete (Ezreal) and Krepo (Blitz) on the botlane. Froggen is pressured mid, but an early roam from Wickd together with Snoopeh's Amumu score a kill in the midlane. Karthus gets barely any farm on the bottom lane and is repeatedly sent back to base, while Lulu lets Ezreal get most of the experience. As TPA recognizes they cannot kill the mid turret due to Amumu getting near level 6 and Karthus being under too much pressure, TPA switches to more conservative lanes. At this point, Froggen is far ahead of Toyz in gold and exp, Pete is slightly ahead of Bebe in gold and exp, and Wickd slightly leads Stanley in gold, but tails him in exp due to his roaming. As Bebe opts for the early BF Sword instead of choosing a more defensive option, Ezreal can lane her very safely. CLG.EU even picks up a dragon. However, at this point it becomes clear that Stanley bullies around Wickd at will, so CLG.EU send Wickd to a more safe lane against Vayne bottom, while Ezreal and Blitzcrank are supposed to contain Stanley's Rengar that is already 2 levels ahead of them and basically unkillable at this point. Wickd is now fairly safe to farm for a while, but can't pressure Vayne. Froggen is safe to farm against Karthus (and scores a kill on him after diving with Snoopeh and another Wickd roam, using all three ultimates) but ultimately Karthus catches up to him. However, as soon as Krepo leaves the top lane to ward and roam on Blitzcrank, Pete is done for - Stanley takes the (already pretty low) top tower and effectively prohibits Pete from farming. He falls further and further behind Vayne - now CLG.EU don't have one (Wickd) but two champs that are too far behind to matter in the progression of the game. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 04 2012 00:35 DragoonTT wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On December 03 2012 23:54 TheYango wrote: TBH it's a lot more egregious the game he played Lee Sin against WE. You can make an argument for Anivia's fairly high farm priority and relatively faster creep clear in a game with Anivia+Ezreal. With Kog+Lee Sin? I don't know what world he's living in where it's normal for Lee to be to be ahead of Kog on CS, and still be getting to farm pushed creep waves while Kog defends pushes. Using the 1/2/3 system to describe farm allocation (and thereby importance to the game as rated by the team), CLG has 1. Froggen, 2. Wickd, 3. Yellowpete while most other teams have 1. AD 2. AP. 3. Toplane. This often leads to Pete getting underfarmed during the midgame, as Froggen will happily farm two lanes and the jungle if he can do so safely, thereby forcing Pete to choose less safe locations to farm. The CLG.EU/TPA games are good material to analyze this situation. CLG.EU preferring Froggen and Wickd over Pete in terms of safety becomes really obvious in game 3. The early laneswitches put Bebe (Vayne) and Mistake (Lulu) mid against Froggen (Vladimir), Stanley (Rengar) top against Wickd (Rumble) and Toyz (Karthus) against Pete (Ezreal) and Krepo (Blitz) on the botlane. Froggen is pressured mid, but an early roam from Wickd together with Snoopeh's Amumu score a kill in the midlane. Karthus gets barely any farm on the bottom lane and is repeatedly sent back to base, while Lulu lets Ezreal get most of the experience. As TPA recognizes they cannot kill the mid turret due to Amumu getting near level 6 and Karthus being under too much pressure, TPA switches to more conservative lanes. At this point, Froggen is far ahead of Toyz in gold and exp, Pete is slightly ahead of Bebe in gold and exp, and Wickd slightly leads Stanley in gold, but tails him in exp due to his roaming. As Bebe opts for the early BF Sword instead of choosing a more defensive option, Ezreal can lane her very safely. CLG.EU even picks up a dragon. However, at this point it becomes clear that Stanley bullies around Wickd at will, so CLG.EU send Wickd to a more safe lane against Vayne bottom, while Ezreal and Blitzcrank are supposed to contain Stanley's Rengar that is already 2 levels ahead of them and basically unkillable at this point. Wickd is now fairly safe to farm for a while, but can't pressure Vayne. Froggen is safe to farm against Karthus (and scores a kill on him after diving with Snoopeh and another Wickd roam, using all three ultimates) but ultimately Karthus catches up to him. However, as soon as Krepo leaves the top lane to ward and roam on Blitzcrank, Pete is done for - Stanley takes the (already pretty low) top tower and effectively prohibits Pete from farming. He falls further and further behind Vayne - now CLG.EU don't have one (Wickd) but two champs that are too far behind to matter in the progression of the game. I don't even honestly think it's that bad. There's nothing inherently wrong with a 3rd position AD carry--it just requires certain drafts to suit it, and accepting the playstyle and playing with it in mind. The problem is playing 4-protects-1 drafts and then stealing farm from the 1. If you want to play like that, then don't draft 4+1 teamcomps and misplay them. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
I can do it ez | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
So you can be a wingman for both Neo and Flamewheel? | ||
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DragoonTT
3398 Posts
On December 04 2012 02:22 TheYango wrote: I don't even honestly think it's that bad. There's nothing inherently wrong with a 3rd position AD carry--it just requires certain drafts to suit it, and accepting the playstyle and playing with it in mind. The problem is playing 4-protects-1 drafts and then stealing farm from the 1. If you want to play like that, then don't draft 4+1 teamcomps and misplay them. I won't claim that putting the AD #3 is inherently bad, though I'd call it kinda questionable considering how AD carries scale by far the hardest in the game and easily outshine bruisers after ~25 minutes unless those get insanely fed. The point is, CLG.EU seems to mistrust Pete's ability to carry to the point where they sacrifice him to give Wickd even the slightest of chances to get back into the game, at the risk of letting the enemy AD carry AND bruiser snowball completely out of control. In a game where both Froggen and Wickd run AP carries, too, and hence will get countered by MR stacking. Letting Froggen lane-tax him midgame is just another indication. Considering the game against WE, I don't think they played it too badly. Kog was basically the only one who could deal with the super minions fast enough anyway and was maxed out soon enough - I'd rather argue that Lee Sin was a bad pick to start with and that CLG should keep Rumble away from Wickd. They kinda needed the farm on Lee to be able to make plays, i.e. assassinate Misaya or Weixiao before they kill Pete and win. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
What impressed me about WE's play is just how flexible it's gotten. Almost every game looked like they were able to adapt and control the flow the game. It's interesting at how certain games they played, they almost reminded me of CLG.eu (such as passive-aggressive when behind) or M5 in their styles while other times weaving their more Asian play in when the situations call for it. Heck, I would argue the reason they won game 2 against clg.eu is they out clg-eu'd CLG.eu. | ||
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