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At any point of IEM Kiev, if you think of an interesting byline, please drop a sentence in the Pro Scene thread. (e.g. "Day 2: M5 hype was everything people expected") At the end of the month, I'll catalogue the results of Kiev but also any interesting facts or events that happen over the course of the tournament. Thanks. Neo, 20.1.2012 |
Vancouver14381 Posts
On January 21 2012 02:11 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 02:06 LaNague wrote: i hope they mean 18:10 cet and not 19:10 oO Yeah would be really annoying if it's 19:10.Can someone enlighten me why do they need so much time between games?I really don't get it.
It's ~19:00 right now in Kiev so the event must have planned a break for the casters and crew to eat dinner.
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Go go SK
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On January 21 2012 01:52 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 01:50 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On January 21 2012 01:49 Norada wrote: potential for two different 3 way ties. if aaa wins and dig wins it will be 3 teams with 2-1. if aaa lose and dig lose it will be 3 teams with 1-2. pretty crazy I don't see M5 losing to aaa, and I'm hoping Dignitas has their head in the game for Sypher. Melt down by Dignitas will be very sad to me. They were outclassed by M5 (who looks the strongest at Kiev by far) but Dig played solidly vs aAa. Playing solidly = catching Shaco doing very bad counter jungling and taking fights after aAa mispositionned like hell ?
It was way more aAa fault than Dig win on that one >.>
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The music start to repeat, now. ):
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It was bad counter jungling when they get caught but when they didn't and stole blue it was game winning play? o.O
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The baron was perfectly executed and unless Dominate just talked out his ass during the interview they were planning that ^_^ Exploiting the enemies mistakes is part of winning.
Besides taking first blood and losing a couple blues shaco wasn't that great early game. Sure he forced a few flashes, but you should "overextend" when you can escape with flash else it just goes to waste.
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On January 21 2012 02:28 Slayer91 wrote: It was bad counter jungling when they get caught but when they didn't and stole blue it was game winning play? o.O
That fight botlane where aAa ate a full Rumble Ult AND Nunu Ult, got aced and then lost Dragon was also pretty game-changing.
On January 21 2012 02:29 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: The baron was perfectly executed and unless Dominate just talked out his ass during the interview they were planning that ^_^ Exploiting the enemies mistakes is part of winning. Mentioned it in LR. They fakes the "burst Baron at the end to kill it" and when Shaco popped over the wall to try and steal it, it wasn't low enough. They then all stopped Baron to CC and kill Shaco and then took Baron without fear.
Shaco's bad play during that time he got caught stealing Blue was not boxing up first and going first in without a tank line to protect him. The last time he died for it was the exact same reason. But he also deceived towards the oracles...
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You can't just go counter-jungling blind. You have to know the position of the jungler or be certain that you will win/escape a possible skirmish. That is why constantly stealing the buffs with your team was game winning and mindlessly invading loses you the game.
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On January 21 2012 02:30 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 02:28 Slayer91 wrote: It was bad counter jungling when they get caught but when they didn't and stole blue it was game winning play? o.O
That fight botlane where aAa ate a full Rumble Ult AND Nunu Ult, got aced and then lost Dragon was also pretty game-changing. Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 02:29 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: The baron was perfectly executed and unless Dominate just talked out his ass during the interview they were planning that ^_^ Exploiting the enemies mistakes is part of winning. Mentioned it in LR. They fakes the "burst Baron at the end to kill it" and when Shaco popped over the wall to try and steal it, it wasn't low enough. They then all stopped Baron to CC and kill Shaco and then took Baron without fear.
I was referencing Dominate saying they were gonna have a horrible early game regardless versus Shaco and they just wanted to wait around for their carries (Karthus) to kick in, but that is also a good point.
Can your team really look good if you're doing an AoE comp though? You attribute them landing the ults to the other team being out of position and there's really no other way it can happen. Either the ults land and the enemy team dies or they don't...
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On January 21 2012 02:30 necrosed wrote: You can't just go counter-jungling blind. You have to know the position of the jungler or be certain that you will win/escape a possible skirmish. That is why constantly stealing the buffs with your team was game winning and mindlessly invading loses you the game.
Most of the counter jungling m5 and aaa did was blind. Its just normally they took the initiative to go right when it spawned however linak came without support from swain and lee sin so he just got caught instead of having a 3v3 fight.
For example diamondprox wasn't scared of finding lee sin in the jungle because he could kill him 1v1 and mid or top would be followed and shyvanan can just ult out if it gets too dicey.
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I was afraid M5 would fail due to pressure but they did great, such a solid team !
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On January 21 2012 02:48 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 02:30 necrosed wrote: You can't just go counter-jungling blind. You have to know the position of the jungler or be certain that you will win/escape a possible skirmish. That is why constantly stealing the buffs with your team was game winning and mindlessly invading loses you the game. Most of the counter jungling m5 and aaa did was blind. Its just normally they took the initiative to go right when it spawned however linak came without support from swain and lee sin so he just got caught instead of having a 3v3 fight. For example diamondprox wasn't scared of finding lee sin in the jungle because he could kill him 1v1 and mid or top would be followed and shyvanan can just ult out if it gets too dicey. Thats basically the key to counterjungling. You either have to play someone who can kill anyone 1v1, or play someone who can peace if things get dicy. Of course, ideally you want someone who can do both.
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Honestly around here I see people have this kind of awe about counter jungling and hold it in high respect as if you have to be fucking einstein to pull it off. It's not all that complicated it's just hard to make it worth your time and reduce the risk factor, so you need good timing and champion pick.
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Live in 7 mins, crazy situation ahead of us!
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On January 21 2012 03:00 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 02:48 Slayer91 wrote:On January 21 2012 02:30 necrosed wrote: You can't just go counter-jungling blind. You have to know the position of the jungler or be certain that you will win/escape a possible skirmish. That is why constantly stealing the buffs with your team was game winning and mindlessly invading loses you the game. Most of the counter jungling m5 and aaa did was blind. Its just normally they took the initiative to go right when it spawned however linak came without support from swain and lee sin so he just got caught instead of having a 3v3 fight. For example diamondprox wasn't scared of finding lee sin in the jungle because he could kill him 1v1 and mid or top would be followed and shyvanan can just ult out if it gets too dicey. Thats basically the key to counterjungling. You either have to play someone who can kill anyone 1v1, or play someone who can peace if things get dicy. Of course, ideally you want someone who can do both.
Shaco doesn't fit into that? He got caught wasting his Q cooldown jumping into 3 of Dignitas.
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On January 21 2012 03:04 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 03:00 Two_DoWn wrote:On January 21 2012 02:48 Slayer91 wrote:On January 21 2012 02:30 necrosed wrote: You can't just go counter-jungling blind. You have to know the position of the jungler or be certain that you will win/escape a possible skirmish. That is why constantly stealing the buffs with your team was game winning and mindlessly invading loses you the game. Most of the counter jungling m5 and aaa did was blind. Its just normally they took the initiative to go right when it spawned however linak came without support from swain and lee sin so he just got caught instead of having a 3v3 fight. For example diamondprox wasn't scared of finding lee sin in the jungle because he could kill him 1v1 and mid or top would be followed and shyvanan can just ult out if it gets too dicey. Thats basically the key to counterjungling. You either have to play someone who can kill anyone 1v1, or play someone who can peace if things get dicy. Of course, ideally you want someone who can do both. Shaco doesn't fit into that? He got caught wasting his Q cooldown jumping into 3 of Dignitas. That just makes aAa's shaco an idiot.
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Like I said, you either know the position of the enemy jungler or know you can pull off a small skirmish/escape from it.
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On January 21 2012 03:04 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 03:00 Two_DoWn wrote:On January 21 2012 02:48 Slayer91 wrote:On January 21 2012 02:30 necrosed wrote: You can't just go counter-jungling blind. You have to know the position of the jungler or be certain that you will win/escape a possible skirmish. That is why constantly stealing the buffs with your team was game winning and mindlessly invading loses you the game. Most of the counter jungling m5 and aaa did was blind. Its just normally they took the initiative to go right when it spawned however linak came without support from swain and lee sin so he just got caught instead of having a 3v3 fight. For example diamondprox wasn't scared of finding lee sin in the jungle because he could kill him 1v1 and mid or top would be followed and shyvanan can just ult out if it gets too dicey. Thats basically the key to counterjungling. You either have to play someone who can kill anyone 1v1, or play someone who can peace if things get dicy. Of course, ideally you want someone who can do both. Shaco doesn't fit into that? He got caught wasting his Q cooldown jumping into 3 of Dignitas. M5 counter jungling was way cleaner than aAa's. Their second and third attempt at stealing blue were just horrid.
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On January 21 2012 03:04 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 03:00 Two_DoWn wrote:On January 21 2012 02:48 Slayer91 wrote:On January 21 2012 02:30 necrosed wrote: You can't just go counter-jungling blind. You have to know the position of the jungler or be certain that you will win/escape a possible skirmish. That is why constantly stealing the buffs with your team was game winning and mindlessly invading loses you the game. Most of the counter jungling m5 and aaa did was blind. Its just normally they took the initiative to go right when it spawned however linak came without support from swain and lee sin so he just got caught instead of having a 3v3 fight. For example diamondprox wasn't scared of finding lee sin in the jungle because he could kill him 1v1 and mid or top would be followed and shyvanan can just ult out if it gets too dicey. Thats basically the key to counterjungling. You either have to play someone who can kill anyone 1v1, or play someone who can peace if things get dicy. Of course, ideally you want someone who can do both. Shaco doesn't fit into that? He got caught wasting his Q cooldown jumping into 3 of Dignitas.
thats like first shaco rule, save Q for peacing out.
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Second rule: make sure not to hit the wall as you peace out.
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