On January 20 2016 02:51 Krazt wrote: What are the current top picks/bans? I've been out for a while.
Top - Tahm Kench, Fiora, Lissandra Jungle - Graves, Kindred, Elise, Rek'Sai Mid - Pretty open at the moment really, but LB has made a resurgence. Viktor is still good. ADC - Lucian, MF Support - Reasonably open as well, Alistar seems popular though.
Probably missing some champs, but there's an idea.
To add on to this Top: graves, and quinn, Jungle: Lee sin Mid: corki, Viktor, anivia, ahri, ryze + Show Spoiler +
jk trash champ unless you're korean
Supp: raka is s-tier, bard, Janna, thresh, morg, alistar,.
On the topic of Graves as an ADC, I've been watching imaqtpie for the last couple days and since yesterday he has changed his opinion 180 and is now gushing nonstop over him, all on account of learning what to build. Which is basically endless longswords into arpen items (Yoomu, maw, cleaver). The burst is just stupid, one full combo deletes anyone. Of course, he still has all the issues that made me stop playing him (creep block, short range), but I guess that's just that champion's weakness. Building arpen at least solves the problem of being completely irrelevant just because their tank gets in your face.
That was more or less the thing since Graves' rework: crit isn't necessarily efficient on him (unless you hit all bullets, it isn't as good as crit on "standard" marksmen), AS isn't at all because of the ammo system, and he has ridiculous values if you manage to hit Q's return and get very close to whoever you're hitting so ArPen works well on him.
Thing is, if he doesn't deal enough damage by himself, it doesn't make up for losing damage scaling going ArPen vs AS/crit. It's not like his E's buff was actually that good if he built glass cannon. Sure, he got up to 120 bonus armour/MR if people let him crit on both attacks to reduce the cd then dash again several times in a row, but in most cases, especially against burst champions, he'd receive part of the damage before the dash, part after the first, and the fight would be over before he'd be done dashing. (Kinda like how pre-rework Graves could get 30 bonus resistances but would only realistically get 6-9 when face with upfront burst.)
So they want him to be a "marksman" while he doesn't scale off AS, and needs to build tanky to survive long enough to actually use his E buff (and even then the current build skips lifesteal iirc?), so his base damage has to be super high to compensate, otherwise he's an unyieldy caster without good itemisation.
I've seen a lot of Sterak's/Maw, so the way that interacts kinda makes sense-- you get a big shield and some extra damage when you get low and that stacks multiplicatively with resists you've built up.
Also, Yasuo + Braum are super good right now. They took at your multi AD team and just give you the finger.
Who to pick against Poppy and Kench? Both are pretty crazy. I was able to survive and tank out against Kench by picking Garen, but Poppy bodied me when I played against her.
EDIT: I play a lot of Poppy, and IMO dueling Poppy feels like it's really important to deny her shield. The 15% max hp (plus whatever from masteries) is a lot to smush through
On January 22 2016 07:03 Requizen wrote: Who to pick against Poppy and Kench? Both are pretty crazy. I was able to survive and tank out against Kench by picking Garen, but Poppy bodied me when I played against her.
If you are good with fiora or rumble, i'd suggest those. Darius is also rather easy to win the lane against the non-one trick poppys, he goes even with them. Trundle does well into pretty much anyone though so he's generally a safe pick. Jax gets bodied by poppy, dont do that to yourself though.
On January 22 2016 07:03 Requizen wrote: Who to pick against Poppy and Kench? Both are pretty crazy. I was able to survive and tank out against Kench by picking Garen, but Poppy bodied me when I played against her.
Garen should do fine against both as long as you don't fall behind in the earlygame. I've only played one game vs Poppy top though as Garen so I don't know the matchup that well, but I don't really see how she can body you. Could you maybe explain how she did that?
On January 22 2016 07:03 Requizen wrote: Who to pick against Poppy and Kench? Both are pretty crazy. I was able to survive and tank out against Kench by picking Garen, but Poppy bodied me when I played against her.
Garen should do fine against both as long as you don't fall behind in the earlygame. I've only played one game vs Poppy top though as Garen so I don't know the matchup that well, but I don't really see how she can body you. Could you maybe explain how she did that?
Oh, I was playing Ryze against her actually. Not that I think that's a bad matchup, I probably just played pretty poorly. But I was honestly surprised at how strong her rework felt, since I haven't played since ~November or so.
On January 22 2016 07:03 Requizen wrote: Who to pick against Poppy and Kench? Both are pretty crazy. I was able to survive and tank out against Kench by picking Garen, but Poppy bodied me when I played against her.
Garen should do fine against both as long as you don't fall behind in the earlygame. I've only played one game vs Poppy top though as Garen so I don't know the matchup that well, but I don't really see how she can body you. Could you maybe explain how she did that?
Oh, I was playing Ryze against her actually. Not that I think that's a bad matchup, I probably just played pretty poorly. But I was honestly surprised at how strong her rework felt, since I haven't played since ~November or so.
I don't think I've actually laned against Poppy except that one time on Garen. Usually she shows up somewhere in midgame, doesn't do a whole lot of damage and that's about it. Might also be because I don't actually play champs with dashes.
Mallet Gnar is pretty good, although it's very nuanced. basically Poppy can win, but her attack patterns are very predictable, like you have to go in at certain rage levels most notably it's very beneficial for Poppy to go in on him right after a mini gnar transition. For this reason she's pretty easy to camp, because if you go mallet gnar and she doesn't go in on you at your weak times you'll just poke her out of lane and build a huge cs advantage.
Quinn is probably super good, I usually ban it or pick something else if Quinn is already picked so I haven't had to try it. Mostly guessing here.
The other match up I found quite hard but only had to do once so I didn't get to learn from it much was singed, as poppy rushing armor is so much more smooth, frozen fist and sun fire/deadmans give you stuff you really want (move speed, push, cdr) cowl items/hex are just a lot worse as first items, so I think most ap tops are decent choices at worst, the rumble idea px mentioned might be good I haven't had to face it. But back to Singed, aside from itemization he has some advantages, part of what makes Poppy so good in lane, and oppressive to melee is you can just lay your Q down on top of a low minion and they have to tank both parts to get the cs, like ranged champions singed can ignore this and cs w/o standing on the minion, and have melee base stats while he's at it so the counter play of just fucking all inning them doesn't work.
also if he's feeling really spicy and your jungler doesn't have cc proxy is annoying for poppy as her push w/o items is pretty bad since her q does reduced damage to minions for some reason. (I mean as I've said in the last patch thread I think in the end this works to her advantage but it is annoying when you need to push)
I think the Fiora match up is pretty easy actually, you can deny her ult with yours, she builds almost 0 defense so you can 1 shot her if she positions poorly, also poppy has really great armor itemization so you eventually out sustain her pretty hard. Her q is also effected by your w, really small advantage but comes up big in the clutch sometimes.
On January 22 2016 07:03 Requizen wrote: Who to pick against Poppy and Kench? Both are pretty crazy. I was able to survive and tank out against Kench by picking Garen, but Poppy bodied me when I played against her.
Current top winrates for Top, Jungle, and ADC are all Graves. Is this just because all the hip people are playing him and tend to just be better players than those who don't stay up to date on FOTM picks?
Or is everyone just being surprised by his burst and tankiness. I've played a few games against Graves and haven't found it to be oppressively top.
On January 23 2016 10:10 Zess wrote: Current top winrates for Top, Jungle, and ADC are all Graves. Is this just because all the hip people are playing him and tend to just be better players than those who don't stay up to date on FOTM picks?
Or is everyone just being surprised by his burst and tankiness. I've played a few games against Graves and haven't found it to be oppressively top.
I think his win rate will settle down about 1-1.5% tops without nerfs as people learn to play against him. but his 440 base damage Q on a 10 second cooldown is really really strong, even without the whole 195% bonus AD ratio. Add to that the fact that he takes out buildings quick as hell and rather easily will trade 1 for 1 in fights if you focus him. he's got little downsides as a solo queue champion. Pantheon is another top laner doing really well at the top of the ladder, mostly on the back of maxing his E, which does 318 base damage with a 360% bonus AD ratio. Another Strong mid/top laner in master/challenger is Gangplank, who when you parrley a barrel does 200 to 300 + 100% AD and can crit and ignores 40% of armor. Armor Penetration is really strong right now.
For context on the strength of graves' Q, Syndra's ult needs 2 spheres on the ground to equal graves' level 9 Q base damage. and graves still has a more cost efficient scaling option than that, syndra spends 21 gold for 1 damage with AP, and graves spends 18 gold for 1 damage with AD.
EPT
