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What I really need is someone with the API to find out how much she does on average for all players. Or since it's more important early on how much she does from level 1-5.
In any event, apparently the third best Zyra world, deals 7.38% physical damage on average in the past 9 games of Zyra. The top 2 Zyra's didn't have recent Zyra games.
http://quickfind.kassad.in/profile/kr/꽃으로강타해요/
It's rather safe to say Zyra deals roughly 93% magic damage.
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On January 19 2015 09:25 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2015 09:16 GolemMadness wrote:On January 19 2015 07:41 JazzVortical wrote:
You are crazy not to take Hybrid Pen on Supp (hell even Mid lane in certain match ups) IMO. Extra AA damage is very welcome in those early trades. Zyra also has higher than average AA range (575), so you get a lot of mileage out of it, and you have to AA to get your plants to function as you want.
Also that comment on deep warding. What?! Lots of people take magic pen over hybrid. It honestly doesn't make much difference. At level 2 against someone with 35 armour, you'll do less than 3 extra damage per auto with hybrid pen runes. Hybrid pen will often be slightly better in lane, but magic pen will always be better as the game goes on. Yeah it'll do 42 damage instead of 39 damage, which is a nearly 10% damage increase. While magic pen will make her Q do 65 damage instead of 62. So as long as you are AAing in lane more than once for every Q hit, hybrid pen is out damaging magic pen. Looking at probuilds though, I'm not seeing Hybrid Pen on any Zyras. Maybe plant damage is OP.
Basically what I said; hybrid pen will often be slightly better in lane, but meg pen will always be better as the game goes on. In general, if you have a magic to physical damage ratio of 4:1, hybrid pen will break even.
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I have 9 mpen reds and 6mpen blues. I do this because I rush mpen items as my first buys - after sightstone. I've got 42 mpen with all of that together, letting me do stupid damage to anybody who hasn't bought mres yet.
Only time I'd run hpen runes would be against a melee support or short range adc who is easy to AA.
Side note: I find that many zyra supports will build frost queen's claim after sightstone and waste so much potential for early-mid game damage. I don't understand the reasoning behind rushing the item.
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On January 19 2015 11:49 canucks12 wrote:
I have 9 mpen reds and 6mpen blues. I do this because I rush mpen items as my first buys - after sightstone. I've got 42 mpen with all of that together, letting me do stupid damage to anybody who hasn't bought mres yet.
Only time I'd run hpen runes would be against a melee support or short range adc who is easy to AA.
Side note: I find that many zyra supports will build frost queen's claim after sightstone and waste so much potential for early-mid game damage. I don't understand the reasoning behind rushing the item.
That's a really interesting point you bring up. The lower a target's MR is the more important flat pen becomes.
For instance, if an enemy has 50MR they'll have 33.33% damage reduction from magic. If that's reduced by 2 to 48MR they'll have 32.43% damage reduction with a difference of .9%. While a champ with 10MR will have 9.09%(9.1%) damage reduction and a champ with 8MR will have 7.4% damage reduction with a difference of 1.7%.
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On January 19 2015 11:49 canucks12 wrote:
I have 9 mpen reds and 6mpen blues. I do this because I rush mpen items as my first buys - after sightstone. I've got 42 mpen with all of that together, letting me do stupid damage to anybody who hasn't bought mres yet.
Only time I'd run hpen runes would be against a melee support or short range adc who is easy to AA.
Side note: I find that many zyra supports will build frost queen's claim after sightstone and waste so much potential for early-mid game damage. I don't understand the reasoning behind rushing the item.
Hey guys, I consider zyra(support) my main , i'm currently at dia v with around 200 games of zyra at 63%winrate which is the lowest it's been, highest was 68-70% at around 80 games played.
I use standard AP runes (no hybrid pen) but I don't think runes matter that much, I also usually go 9/0/21 masteries, but for item build the way I usually build determines on how much gold I have on backs. if I have 800 g on first back I get sight stone, if not I get frost fang + pots/wards into sight stone. Then I go for mobi boots.
Core items end up being: Sight stone, frost fang ,mobi boots
After that I build into either frost queens claim or haunting guise and it just depends on how much gold i have on back, if I can buy haunting guise in one go ill do it, if not I'll usually just build frost fang first, since I'd rather have a codex than ruby crystal + amp tome . I used to actually always leave frost fang to upgrade to my last item just like you too until I realized I just wasn't utilizing the on use to it's fullest.Either forgetting to use it or not using it optimally.
The on use of frost queens claim is actually really good and can make it really easy to set up Claim>root>plants+ult with ignite and some help from your team that will bone someone. I think a lot of people don't use the active enough so it seems useless, it's an 80% slow with long range and it's aoe with a 60 second cool down. You're still support so you are supposed to bring some utility, if you use your root to catch someone you still have the on use to peel a melee from your adc. It also helps you get away because zyra mobility sucks which is the same reason I build mobi boots so you can ward without getting boned every second. Also great for running a team down to pick up kills.
So next items end up being: frostqueen/liandrys
Afterwards I usually build into void staff or rylais depending on how squishy I feel and how much money I have on backs. Last item usually Rabadons, not a big fan of zhonyas on zyra I usually like to encourage the enemy team to waste abilities/ ults on me, I can't count how many games I've won because people forget I'm the support not mid laner and dive me for a kill while I still get all my damage off + my passive, then it's an easy clean up for the team.
I personally prefer her as a support, she has a lot of weaknesses(actually just the same weaknesses become compounded when you aren't support, low mobility/squishy) played in other roles but definitely can still be fun.
one good tip is use your W seeds to ward bushes ahead of you since they have a higher range than sight stone to avoid face checking . Sorry for the disorganized rambling ;x.
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That's interesting, I'll have to try finishing off Frost Queen's at some point. The active synergizes with Liandry's too. I have to ask, why you prefer codex over amp tome and ruby crystal? One of my favourite parts about getting the Guise early is the hp build path allowing you to take more damage before going down.
On an unrelated note, with all the peer pressure about Frostfang being a bad item I tried leaving my Spelltheif's unupgraded recently. We were snowballing the lane, although I don't attribute that to an earlier sightstone. Especially since the jungler was Evelynn. But where I really started to feel the impact was past level 6. The extra 25% mana regen is a lot more noticeable mid-late game than it is in lane. The Frostfang is the only reasonably mana regen item support Zyra will buy and the earlier you get it the more cost efficient it becomes.
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On January 18 2015 16:06 MidnightGladius wrote:
Which ADCs do you like to pair support Zyra with? Against which bot lane pairs would you prefer to pick Zyra? Are there particular matchups where you wouldn't pick Zyra? I like the utility she offers, but playing her in a lane where you're the ones shoving feels really risky when you're such a squishy and immobile champ. Would you ever consider Mobi boots over Sorcs? Similarly, do you take Ignite or Exhaust?
Thanks in advance!
A season or so back C9 was famous for there botlane Ashe/Zyra and I still to this day enjoy the combo. Its extremely powerful and the amount of CC you have is insane not only in lane but when transition to midgame or picking up baron/dragon. That kind of power out of your bottom lane is rare and with the combination its still pretty good in my opinion.
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On January 22 2015 01:18 MurphyJayGaming wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 16:06 MidnightGladius wrote:
Which ADCs do you like to pair support Zyra with? Against which bot lane pairs would you prefer to pick Zyra? Are there particular matchups where you wouldn't pick Zyra? I like the utility she offers, but playing her in a lane where you're the ones shoving feels really risky when you're such a squishy and immobile champ. Would you ever consider Mobi boots over Sorcs? Similarly, do you take Ignite or Exhaust?
Thanks in advance! A season or so back C9 was famous for there botlane Ashe/Zyra and I still to this day enjoy the combo. Its extremely powerful and the amount of CC you have is insane not only in lane but when transition to midgame or picking up baron/dragon. That kind of power out of your bottom lane is rare and with the combination its still pretty good in my opinion.
I like playing with Vayne, Caitlyn or Corki. Vayne is good because she fights well and can really jump on them when you land your e. You can also zone for Vayne very well and it makes her lane much easier. Caitlyn just because we poke the crap out of them. Corki for the same reason. Quinn works surprisingly well with Zyra as well.
The absolute worst adc that I've found to play with is Twitch. Everything sucks about laning with Twitch as Zyra. Also really don't like laning with Tristana.
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irritating your enemy botlane 101:
plants can block skillshots. you will want to use it mostly for predictive purposes:
-let's say you see an opening to QW someone in lane. let's say it's Thresh.
plant the Q where it would hit Thresh while putting the W in front of Thresh. If Thresh tries to hook reactively, it may hit the plant instead
-let's say Thresh is hiding in a bush and you fully expect him to attempt a hook from that bush. a QW onto and in front of Thresh or Q (or E) W in front of his intended target (the mana burning way) might get you a block instead
-sometimes the enemy botlane will not kill a plant. this allows you to approach and harass further using the plant as cover against skillshot retaliation
learn precisely where tower range ends. unless they enemy botlane is already hiding by their tower, you want your plants just out of tower range so that the tower won't one shot them once they grow. this can force the enemy botlane to either wait them out or spend autos killing them, possibly taking more damage in the process
plants will get one attack off on an enemy champion while spawned, then probably autoattack minions or something. to keep plants shooting the enemy champions like you want them to, either autoattack the champion yourself after your poke or set situations so that the plants have no choice but to attack the enemy champions, which they will do.
irritating everyone else 101:
Liandry's plant warding
step 1: get liandrys/rylais/mpen
step 2: QW where you expect enemies to pass, preferably enemies that don't have lifesteal or high regen. basically treat it as a low duration teemo shroom that shoots stuff with high range
step 3: watch as the enemy AP carries are hopefully chunked before the next skirmish or teamfight
seeds grant vision and have higher range than wards. great if you don't wanna even get within warding range of a bush or if you don't have wards left
i very highly recommend getting mobility aids for warding. as zyra your dueling potential is basically nothing and you are the slowest thing on the map. consider:
MS masteries, MS quint(s). Mobi boots, Mpen boots + MS enchant
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Some crucial brushes should actually be checked with your snare and not with plants. That is safer because of the additional range. Plant checks won't safe you from a lot of cc.
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EPT
