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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On November 10 2013 14:18 a4bisu wrote: anyone have any thoughts on laning against Nunu or Fizz? i found these two are very annoying to plays against. Nunu's a dick. Hopefully survive lane and outscale him. Fizz can probably be bullied early game but later on he's supposed to gib squishies. | ||
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RouaF
France4120 Posts
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
You should win early levels against fizz. Harass him as much as you can at level 1. The lane is tricky but should go in teemo's favour until fizz hits 6 and gets full life, it's up to you to be far ahead enough to be able to punish his stupidly safe allins later on. It's been like 1 year I haven't seen lane nunu so I can't comment. A good fizz will stack sustain out the wazzoo early game and just play safe and sit until he hits 3. Then he'll kill you repeatedly if you give him an inch. Teemo is in a difficult spot since he needs to keep pressure on to stop fizz controlling the flow of the lane, but that means he'll be very vulnerable to jungle ganks and not able to benefit much from his own. Honestly, the best way I think of beating a fizz is just stacking pots and MR in the early game. If you have enough that he can't kill you outright, just pot back up. once you get to 6 you can shroom the bushes like mad and use them as a safe haven and with the added MR he won't be able to execute a combo on you successfully. Keep him occupied and stop him from roaming, then you've done your job. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
and don't rush mr lol. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On November 10 2013 22:55 Slusher wrote: on hits miss when blinded so Q is going to do about 10 damage if you blind Fizz on the incoming, unless he wants to use E to engage you you will out trade him massively, if he E's in to engage, just blind when you hear the seastone trident sound (it's a metallic sound) once again win the trade, then pummel him in the back as he tries to disengage. If he goes lichbane first and you've already established a cs lead you should be in the drives seat from this point forward. and don't rush mr lol. While Q applies on hit effects, it isn't on hit afaik. Also all of Fizz's damage is magic and blinds don't stop most forms of magic damage. They do block WW's Rs because coded as minions. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
Fizz is a really strong champion and he can win this match up, but it is not a favored one if the Teemo knows how to play the match up. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On November 11 2013 05:47 Slusher wrote: the damage is on Q is complete and utter garbage if you don't get the auto attack from it(his Q is basically an empowered auto with a dash) his W is also empowered auto attacks, unless Fizz commits with E (pre 6) he has no chance to out trade teemo, and if he Does commit with E blind him when he goes for active W hits and you will turn the trade around, and he's already used his escape so you can pummel him in the back as he walks away in shame. That may be true, but 10 damage is an understatement. None of Fizz's spell damage gets blocked. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On November 11 2013 05:49 Slusher wrote: Q is literally 10 damage + an auto, there is no understatement to be had. His level 1 Q's auto and his next autos get blocked. That's fine. But most Fizz activate W before using Q. That means he at least gets the magic damage from W on his first Q for more than 10 damage. And your statement that on hit gets blocked by blinds is what I take issue with. I was wrong to state that none of Fizz's spell damage gets blocked. It does block his Q's AD ratio for 50-100 damage depending on Fizz's level. Blind only mitigates the physical damage portion of an attack, including physical damage sourced from a physical on-hit effect. Other damage types and effects won't miss. See: On-hit effects. Not all on hit effects get affected by blind. I also doubt if it's possible to use your Q after seeing Fizz start to use Q, but before they've actually gone into the Q. You'd need insane reflexes to do that because if you Q too early, he can potentially E to dodge your Q and punish you for it. I'd have to see this in game. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On November 11 2013 06:25 Slusher wrote: it's possible in the same way it's possible to block fizz Q with Draven E, it's possible. you act like Teemos autos aren't doing enhanced damage also, except Teemo is getting the his ad in the mix also, bottom line without items, pre 6, Teemo wins all in trades and is ranged vs. melee so he can punish last hitting, it's not a favored match up for Fizz, that is all that is being discussed here. I never said anything about Teemo's autos and whether they were enhanced. I do agree though that Teemo can bully Fizz pre 6. Even said so at the top of the page. If that's all we're arguing then that's not in dispute. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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ItsFunToLose
United States776 Posts
Also, the reasoning for 30-0-0 is that in some matchups, you have the huge burden of securing a substantial HP lead, or risk dying to power spike level 2/3 all-ins. If you're only getting one or two autos in here or there, the difference between 30-0-0 with balls out hybrid/26 flat AP runes and 9-21-0 MRblues/MS quints can be 15-20 damage per auto. it's fucking monsterous. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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RouaF
France4120 Posts
On November 12 2013 07:39 krndandaman wrote: I would play teemo so much more if I knew for sure that my support would ward top for me in the beginning of the game. It's so hard to be aggressive yet be wary of ganks with no ward. With the ward he's pretty much unstoppable in nearly every matchup. True. If my support wards for me and I can start doranblade or boots 4 pots my winrate goes up a ton. The problem with playing Teemo in solo queue is that most of the time your team thinks you're trolling and they won't help you at all, the jungler will ignore you even if a 2v2 is 100% going in your favour because your lane opponent is supposed to be low. As a result a big part of playing Teemo in solo queue is trying to charm your teammates. Tell them you main teemo and you know what you're doing, ask for a ward by the support in the lobby and say that you will win the lane if you have one (ofc you will get flamed a lot if somehow you lose it). If you don't get a ward try to convince your jungler that their jungler will be top at lvl 3 after blue/red (which 90% of junglers do in solo queue against teemo) and that you will win the 2v2. I've clearly noticed an increase in my winrate by doing so but it's quite exhausting to ask this game every game and sometimes people will just give you the middle finger even if you ask nicely because "stfu u troll teemo" (gosh those 15 years old playing the game...) An other alternative is just starting boots 2 pots +ward, which I often do, but in some matchups those 2 pots less change everything. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
I just want to make sure I don't pick my beloved teemo into bad situations pls | ||
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Basaest
32 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Pantheon is the worst offender. Riven is less annoying but still requires a lot of kiting. Wukong can and will fuck your day up if you don't remove him from lane before level 5. Darius is a shit if you aren't 100% careful, a single EQ can lose the lane. Malphite is like Wu where if he doesn't get bullied out he will just ignore you and then kill you. Akali will murder you twice. I haven't played against an Irelia or Olaf in a long time but I can imagine that they have the capacity to be annoying. Top Zac is also likely a pain but I haven't seen one in months. I can't comment on these. Cho and Nasus have the capacity to just ignore you and sustain if you let them keep up, but they should never really be able to kill you if you aren't standing in ruptures/close enough to get caught out with Wither. The real threats are ranged champions. Jayce (dunno recently, but before nerfs it was true), Elise, etc. Now that I've said that, aside from Panth, Jayce, Elise, and a few others, all the lanes are pretty winnable if you play right. You lose to a lot of champions when they hit 6 (Malph/Wu/Akali are the big ones), but you have massive advantages over them beforehand if you play smart. You may be forced into buying defenses (either Seeker's if you want to be AP or go full tank), but that's acceptable. | ||
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Basaest
32 Posts
My main pick in the past has been Pantheon and the thing that stands out if I picked him vs a Teemo was that if i got a kill or forced him out of the lane really early there was no coming back, but the only times I could actually get that far ahead was if the teemo started with idiotic items or just misplayed horribly. Going even with a Teemo just becomes a death sentence if you start roaming and that is your main strenght. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
Not sure whether on hit or ap is the way to go vs Teemo. On hit lets you get wits end first which, once you get it is really strong. MR, mpen, aspd, on hit magic damage that goes through blinds are all good things against Teemo. On hit leads to really good deeps late game too and you can still get some CDR with lucidity boots. Then AP lets you get CDR, mostly useful for the late game or if you're using your Q on cooldown and so get more Q's than Teemo. AP helps you to heal more but I'm guessing it'd be too mana intensive to do that a lot. Your E also hits harder, especially once you get Nashors. If you get a pink ward, and put it down when you don't know where his shrooms are, you'll never step into Teemo's shrooms. But your ult is still useful for you. Pre-6 you lose to Teemo since his blind is strong. Hug the brush. Post 6 your ult lasts for longer than his level 1 blind. Since your fury's damage and wits end goes through blind you'll also be hurt less by the blind than champions that build AD. Finally, late game Kayle's E ratio is .1 higher than Teemo's which may not seem like a lot, but that's 10 damage per auto per 100 AP. If you have 400 AP that's 40 damage per auto lost. imo Kayle's decent vs Teemo but by no means a counter. | ||
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