Health 355 (+74 / per level) Health Regen 4.85 (+0.5 / per level) Mana 250 (+50 / per level) Mana Regen 50 (+0 / per level) Range: 575 (Ranged) Damage 50 (+3.2 / per level) Attack Speed 0.625 (+2.11% / per level) Armor 11 (+3 / per level) Magic Res. 30 (+0 / per level) Move Speed 325
Deadly Bloom Range reduced to 800 from 825. Damage changed to 70 / 105 / 140 / 175 / 210 (+65% AP) from 75 / 115 / 155 / 195 / 235 (+60% AP).
Rampant Growth Range increased to 850 from 825. Passive cooldown reduction reduced to 2 / 4 / 6 / 8 / 10% from 4 / 8 / 12 / 16 / 20%. Plant base damage changed to 23 (+6.5 per level) from 26 (+6 per level). Reduced the delay before seeds can be stepped on by enemies to 1.5 seconds from 3. Fixed a bug where spells would rarely not turn seeds into plants.
Stranglethorns No longer stuns after the knockup ends. Bug Fix: Plants summoned in the thicket will now correctly receive the buff (currently only applies to plants already active).
Although not yet part of the "Ban Z" strategy, Zyra has seen a resurgence in popularity in the NA and KR scenes as a very versatile support champion. With surprising damage, an excellent auto attack and maybe the best disengage ability in the game it's no wonder teams like C9 and SKT value Zyra so highly.
This won't be a high level guide as such (I'm only Silver 1), but will be written with support in mind.
Range: 1,500 (estimate) Duration of plant form: 8 seconds
Upon death, Zyra returns to her plant form. After 2 seconds, she can press any ability to fire a Vengeful Thorn towards her cursor, dealing 80 + (20 × level) true damage to each enemy it strikes.
Although you should be avoiding dying, this passive can still help your ADC clean up lane kills or even make the difference in a team fight. It is true damage and doesn't drop off in damage if it passes through multiple people.
Thorns shoot from the ground, dealing magic damage to enemies within the area. If Deadly Bloom hits a seed, a Thorn Spitter grows. Thorn Spitter attacks with long range and deals magic damage.
Tips:
Zyra's primary nuke and a helpful tool for poking in lane. If you manage to proc a Thorn Spitter, make sure you are auto-attacking an enemy; the plants will prioritise your target. Getting a few early points in Q will increase your harass potential and synergises well with Spellthief's Edge.
(Active): Plants a seed lasting 30 seconds. If an enemy champion steps on a seed, it will be destroyed but they will be revealed for 2 seconds.
Zyra periodically stores seeds and she can hold up to 2 seeds at any given time. Zyra cannot plant any more than 4 seeds at a time. Cast spells on seeds to grow plants. Plant damage is based on Zyra's level. Extra plants striking the same target deal 50% less damage.
Tips:
This ability is a huge part of why Zyra is so effective in lane. Seeds have multiple uses apart from spawning plants as they can be used as temporary wards and short term vision for champions. The nerf to 10% CDR actually works in Zyra's favour now as you can run Frost Queen's Claim (10%), Lucidity (15%), Sorcery (5%) and W (10%) to give you an easy 40% CDR by mid-game. Talisman (20%), Lucidity (15%) and Sorcery (5%) is another viable build path.
JimmiC: When kiting use one W at a time. That way as they chase you they will always have a plant shooting them. If you pop both when they run by them they are in the clear!
(Active): Sends forward vines, dealing magic damage and rooting enemies for a short duration.
Rampant Growth: If Grasping Roots hits a seed, a Vine Lasher grows. Vine Lasher has short ranged attack that deal magic damage and slow by 30% for 2 seconds.
Tips:
While the missile speed is a lot slower than on release, Grasping Roots is still a powerful snare that can be used to peel, chase or kite an enemy. Learning to lead the ability is very important as if you miss, the cooldown is very unforgiving. Try to have two points in this skill by level 6 to make hitting your ultimate a litter easier.
Cost: 100 / 120 / 140 mana Cooldown: 130 / 120 / 110 seconds Magic Damage: 180 / 265 / 350 (+0.7 per ability power) Range to Center of AoE: 700
(Active): Summons the fury of nature, growing a twisted thicket at target location which deals magic damage to all enemies in the area as it expands. After 2 seconds, the vines snap upward knocking enemies into the air for 1 seconds.
Rampant Growth: Plants within the thicket are enraged, increasing their attack speed by 50%.
One of, if not the best, disengage ultimates in the game right now. The large AoE means fighting in the jungle and in choke points (especially around Dragon/Baron) is almost suicide for the enemy team. It can be difficult to land on multiple people or on a team that is running from you as two seconds is quite a long time in team fights. Make sure you cast plants inside the ult to benefit from the 50% attack speed buffs for them.
Summoner Skills
Necessary. Flash can put you in position for a great ult or a finishing blow with Q.
If you have someone on your team who carries exhaust (or there is no worthwhile target on the enemy team for it), Ignite will help your lane secure kills. Probably more popular since the Season 4 changes came in.
If they have something like a Tristana, Zed or other high damage threat make sure you have this. Also more useful than Ignite if you are in a poke oriented lane.
Highly situational, but can be useful if going up against a low burst team.
Only if you're bronze.
Skill Order
Level 1 to 6: Q > W > Q > E > E > R
OR
Level 1 to 6: E > Q > W > Q > E > R
One of the reasons Zyra fell off in popularity (imo) is her level 2 spike is not as strong as her level 3. Having the snare but no Q means your burst is weak and having your Q with no W means you have no consistent DPS. However if laning with someone like Jinx you can achieve a level 2 all in.
E start is very situational now as it is unlikely that either team will invade. You could take it first if laning with someone like Caitlyn as a Zyra E + Cait Q is good wave clear.
Standard skill priority is R > Q > W > E.
Max Q: Standard, great poke, good for getting Spellthief procs.
Max W: After the nerf to 10% CDR and both support lines now incorporating CDR into their item paths, this is probably a skill that can be avoided until later.
Max E: You would have to completely max out E in order to get the same stun duration that Annie gets at level 11. Two points is enough time (1 second) for someone to land their hard CC or burst.
Masteries
Depending on your level of confidence there are a few mastery trees that can be useful. A lot of the time in SoloQ the snowball element is too important to ignore. Going with offensive or aggressive masteries can allow you to bully the enemy duo out early and shut them out of the game.
Good balance of defensive and utility masteries. Pretty standard in terms of support but feel free to swap out the point in Summoner's Wrath for Pickpocket as you will be auto attacking a lot.
You are extremely squishy with this mastery setup so I recommend going with a HP quints page or extra amor marks. However it does let you come to lane with 10% CDR and 20% CDR around level 6. This is important as you are a lot weaker with E on cooldown.
As used by PoohManDu over in the OGN, this tree takes a LOT of points in the defensive tree and sacrifices any GP10 masteries from utility. Also not that he pairs this with a very defensive rune page as well. Note the points in health regen and 10% less damage from critical strikes. You could also sub out the points in Juggernaut for Relentless or Tenacious (e.g if you are laning against Lulu).
Runes
Work in progress
Item Build
Starting items:
For the no consumable starts, don't take my pot numbers as gospel, if you feel you want the extra mana pots feel free to trade the health pots out for them.
Enough vision for laning phase and pots to back it up. Only use this in conjunction with tank Zyra masteries. Possibility to swap out the Vision Ward for an extra Sight Ward and Mana potion.
Early to Mid Game Items:
Golden Rule: Never, ever leave the fountain without at least one ward. You can afford a ruby crystal but no wards? Too bad, 1 ward and pots will have to do.
Great for taking auto attack harass and the regen is just icing on top. I'd only recommend this if you can see the lane phase lasting a little longer than usual (e.g. no turrets/dragons yet).
Rarely will two of these items be worthwhile. If you didn't start with a Faerie Charm and can afford the Kage's straight up then go for it. Nine times out of ten however the Philosopher's Stone or Sightsone is a better choice.
Try to always have a Vision Ward in your inventory at all times. This lets you somewhat safely take dragon or clear our your buffs. Sightstone is more gold efficient than buying wards and gives you a nice health boost. Try to have an Oracles active by 20-25 minutes. After this stage it's entirely up to you to read the flow of the game but keeping an Oracles active at all times will more often than not win you the game.
If you can't afford a Twin Shadows before 20 minutes I would'nt bother; the ghost speed doesn't scale at all and most enemies will have Level 2 boots at this stage. Kindlegem is great for a quick health boost and brings you closer to the CDR cap. However, if you are ahead it can be skipped in favour of Morellonomicon.
Nice overview! I'll usually have 1 point in e, w, q by level 3. I like it more for harassing and trading potential. For luxury items I'd say liandry's could also be included. Sometimes you have a tanky top and jungler and an AD assassin mid (mostly Zed) and liandry's amplifies plant damage so much.
No offence but top challenger BubbaDub plays "korean zyra" he goes 1 13 16, hybrid pen marks,arm yellows,flat mr blues & 2 hp 1 gold quints. Thanks for making me checkup seems I have been using ad marks by misstake ;-)
He has a twitch stream also http://www.twitch.tv/bubba if you are into supporting like a baws. He went from silver to diamond one in a few days on his smurf playing support in almost all his games.
On September 18 2013 04:24 oZe wrote: No offence but top challenger BubbaDub plays "korean zyra" he goes 1 13 16, hybrid pen marks,arm yellows,flat mr blues & 2 hp 1 gold quints. Thanks for making me checkup seems I have been using ad marks by misstake ;-)
He has a twitch stream also http://www.twitch.tv/bubba if you are into supporting like a baws. He went from silver to diamond one in a few days on his smurf playing support in almost all his games.
I've seen Bubba get a couple early points in q when the lane is going well, for the added bully potential. Also grasping roots is hard to hit at long range, so against some supports like leona or alistar, trying to land it can put you in danger. Something like 3 points in q before maxing e against those supports allow you to retain your threat level without exposing you as much. Also starting q at level one lets you help your adc pushing very efficiently to rush lvls 2. So, something like qw(e/q)(q/e)then max e ->q->w. It feels real smooth to me. Take a mana pot or 2 though...
On September 18 2013 09:13 Anakko wrote: I've seen Bubba get a couple early points in q when the lane is going well, for the added bully potential. Also grasping roots is hard to hit at long range, so against some supports like leona or alistar, trying to land it can put you in danger. Something like 3 points in q before maxing e against those supports allow you to retain your threat level without exposing you as much. Also starting q at level one lets you help your adc pushing very efficiently to rush lvls 2. So, something like qw(e/q)(q/e)then max e ->q->w. It feels real smooth to me. Take a mana pot or 2 though...
Yeah I tried the Q start last night against a vayne and it worked really well. I only had one mana pot though and it put me at a disadvantage around level 3-4. I think 2 mana pots might be optimal.
I used to do 3 different setup for runes, when i played zyra (idk why, but i consider her weak for no reason lol):
Page 1 - Mainly used if you only have room for one support page.
Marks: Flat armor Seals: Flat armor Quints: Gp10 (can also be HP if prefered) Glyphs: Flat magic resist
Fairly standard, nothing special here. Gives you everything you need to survive lane. Preferably used with the 1/13/16 masteries (or similar)
Page 2 - Used against faggots like leona, taric and alistar. Note this page might not be as viable as page 3 anymore.
Marks: AD Seals: Flat armor Quints: Gp10 Glyphs: Flat magic resist or flat mpen
The idea of this page is to play aggressive like fuck during the early levels. The goal is to zone them off, kill them or force them to recall. You will slowly start gaining an advantage, that you can hopefully use to force a level 6 attempt when the enemy is still level 5.
Page 3 - The page i still prefer for zyra, simply because you get so much free CDR and i like building "damage":
Clearly you must be thinking "what the fucking fuck am i gonna do with so much flat mpen"? Reason is simple; you take a balanced mastery page, you skip going 9 into offense, and buy sorcs+haunting guise/liandry to provide threat through insanely high base damage from spells and plants.
Zyra is one of the unique supports, because anything past sightstone+oracles/wards should be pumped into enhancing damage, rather than boosting your team through auras. Her whole kit is based upon teamfights, her roaming is terrible, and she does not assist ganks that well so flat mpen comes to be the most plausible choice to maximize yourself for your team.
I seriously hate biscuit and explorer's ward, if i wanna ward level 1, i just fucking buy a normal ward instead. I value the resistances in defensive way more.
On September 18 2013 04:24 oZe wrote: No offence but top challenger BubbaDub plays "korean zyra" he goes 1 13 16, hybrid pen marks,arm yellows,flat mr blues & 2 hp 1 gold quints. Thanks for making me checkup seems I have been using ad marks by misstake ;-)
He has a twitch stream also http://www.twitch.tv/bubba if you are into supporting like a baws. He went from silver to diamond one in a few days on his smurf playing support in almost all his games.
What is the point in having a single gold quint?
Is this a rhetorical question or are you actually wondering?
On September 18 2013 04:24 oZe wrote: No offence but top challenger BubbaDub plays "korean zyra" he goes 1 13 16, hybrid pen marks,arm yellows,flat mr blues & 2 hp 1 gold quints. Thanks for making me checkup seems I have been using ad marks by misstake ;-)
He has a twitch stream also http://www.twitch.tv/bubba if you are into supporting like a baws. He went from silver to diamond one in a few days on his smurf playing support in almost all his games.
What is the point in having a single gold quint?
Is this a rhetorical question or are you actually wondering?
Assuming by "1 gold quint" they mean one gp10 quint, then yes, this is a legitimate question.
On September 18 2013 04:24 oZe wrote: No offence but top challenger BubbaDub plays "korean zyra" he goes 1 13 16, hybrid pen marks,arm yellows,flat mr blues & 2 hp 1 gold quints. Thanks for making me checkup seems I have been using ad marks by misstake ;-)
He has a twitch stream also http://www.twitch.tv/bubba if you are into supporting like a baws. He went from silver to diamond one in a few days on his smurf playing support in almost all his games.
What is the point in having a single gold quint?
Is this a rhetorical question or are you actually wondering?
Assuming by "1 gold quint" they mean one gp10 quint, then yes, this is a legitimate question.
I'll do my best to guess and say that he feels having some GP10 from runes is necessary; I on the other hand think you only need 2 out of 3 available gold sources. Think of it like this
GP10 runes + GP10 masteries + GP10 items = weak lane, overkill income Combat runes + GP10 masteries + GP10 items = better lane presence, income still high Combat runes + Combat masteries + GP10 items = excellent lane presence, best mix of lane/mid-game vision Combat runes + Combat masteries + combat items = man-mode
This is just how I see the game, even in SoloQ.
Either that or this guy has mathed out that 2GP10 from masteries + everything else is perfect for some sort of item timing.
Yeah, levelling up E increases the time they are snared for. You could make an argument for swapping a few early E points into Q for better lane harass, but for midgame/dragon fights the longer snare is preferred.
Though the passive from dshield makes sense, always remember that Genja does, what Genja wants. Can't really compare him to the other pro players and make them copy him, because he's so unique in his thought process.
It's not so much that he thinks 1 gold quint is optimal. It's more that he feels he needs 2 HP quints for the early trades that lead to a won lane. He actually says he misses the gold quints but that after testing he just cannot live without the 2 hp quints.
In my extremely low opinion. If you have a good adc your extra hp will net you more assist gold than the gold quints and/or let you force the other adc to back. If you have a bad adc I would go 3 gold quints. On some supports I even play with gold seals. However on zyra I feel flat out in your face aggression is the way to go.
He was #14 in challenger so I just assume he knows better than me.
I like to go either liandry's or hourglass. Free cdr + shurelia's is usually enough cdr and some additional damage/survivability are nice to have. (if you ever get so much gold)
Hourglass is good either if you could get picked easily or against full ad teams. Also if you have to play more of an initiation role (because your team lacks initiation otherwise) it is a strong pick.
I really like hourglass too, the only downside is sitting on gold/gaining the gold for NLR. 1600g in one go can be troublesome, and some will even deem it impossible in higher level of play (tourney play in general, i have no problems in diamond yolo Q).
I noticed that the Korean Zyras take Q at level 1 and W at level 2, not taking E until level 3. I think the other regions have started doing this as well, but I'm not sure. It gives really strong poke and zoning early on with Q and plants, but you have to really be confident that you won't need the root before then.
I used to take E first, then W but I've come to realize that E>Q is a better level 2 combo. I take E first in level 1 fights, otherwise I skill Q first in lane for easier harass. I don't take a point in W until level 3 now and max it last just like I would with mid zyra.
My goal is to Q once at level 1. Gets some poke damage on them, gets the mana regen rolling, and possibly pushes the wave so we hit level 2 first. If we hit lvl 2 first then I go for an E>Q combo. Otherwise I wait until level 3 and 2 seeds to poke them again. My typical poke is EQWW.
I take gp10 quints and masteries so I skip any gp10 items. Flask is much more cost effective in terms of regen than philo. Masteries are 5-0-25 against lanes I can poke safely or 1-13-16 against stronger poke lanes for extra beef.
Sightstone > Boots > Aegis (if we need the MR aura) otherwise Sightstone > HG (Lyandries with all the assist gold)
What is everyone doing about mana management? I've tried several things and I'm just not settled on an optimal route yet. Since zyra has the slowest base move speed in the game I tend not to roam and just shove mid and take both wraith camps over the walls. Athene's is required to keep up this farm pace but you can feel the lack of 30 magic pen early.
Athenes? Rod of Ages? Flask? Doran's Ring x2
I always go for a core build of Deathcap & Lyandries.
With mid's with CC and mana (AKA most of them) CDR is huge because it allows you to CC more frequently in team fights. Athenes solves both your mana and CDR problems so I'd say it's basically a necessary pick up on Zyra.
You're right that MPEN is important so I would maybe do a build like
I frequently find that the pace of the late game is such that I do not have the free time to kill blue. Especially if you are losing or the game is close, blue buff is in a terrible position. It is hard to ward it and it pulls you away from the mid lane, making you and your team vulnerable. During the baron dance, trying to kill blue is risky business as well.
For this reason I like to have 40% CDR w/o Blue and let the infinite mana be a luxury. Also, this means you can donate blue buff to someone that can kill it faster and who did not have the opportunity to build mana regeneration / cdr items like your ADC or top laner.
Also, I think hitting the 40% CDR Cap as soon as possible is pretty big. It greatly increases your teamfighting strength so hitting it early is important. Remember that 0->20% is not as impactful as 20->40%
Yeah I'm scratching my head at that one. CDR always uses the base cooldown of a spell, not the current cooldown. A 10sec base CD with 20% CDR is an 8 second CD and with 40% it's a 6 second CD. It's linear.
Let's say you're spamming your 10 sec CD spell all day. You get: 60 sec/10 sec = 6 spells/minute with 0% CDR 60 sec/8 sec = 7.5 spells/minute with 20% CDR 60 sec/6 sec = 10 spells/minute with 40% CDR
Going from 10 sec to 8 sec means the guy with 8 sec CD casts 7.5/6=1.25, so 25% more spells than the guy with 10 sec CD Going from 8 sec to 6 sec means the guy with 6 sec CD casts 10/7.5 = 1.33, so 33% more spells than the guy with 8 sec CD
Let's keep going for impossible scenarios to illustrate: 60 sec/4 sec = 15 spells/minute with 60% CDR 60 sec/2 sec = 30 spells/minute with 80% CDR
Going from 6 sec to 4 sec means the guy with 4 sec CD casts 15/10=1.5, so 50% more spells than the guy with 6 sec CD Going from 4 sec to 2 sec means the guy with 2 sec CD casts 30/15 = 2, so 100% more spells than the guy with 4 sec CD
All of this is with the simple 20% increase each time but it doesn't really work out that way.
A simpler way to put it I've found is this: Going from 0% CDR to 50% CDR would halve your cooldowns, and double your dps, or a 100% increase. Going from 50% CDR to 100% CDR would lower cooldowns by the same amount of seconds, but also remove them completely, and it would be an infinite increase in dps.
With mana regen runes and masteries it requires absolute spamming spells to go OOM once you have Athenes. I'm definitely going to swap to defensive runes and masteries for mid zyra and see how huge the effect is.
I always take armor runes on support zyra since you are not farming you dont need extra mana regen.
Not sure that Mana Regen runes are the way to go but masteries are probably k. I esp. love utility because of increased blue buff duration (which should help solve the problem anyway!)
With mid meta being very assassiny / bursty, you need to come to lane with as many combat stats as possible and I think taking mana regen stuff may just hold you back. Maybe in passive lanes but taking say scaling AP (a la faker) is probably just as good anyway.
On September 25 2013 00:00 Ghost-z wrote: Question about mana issues with mid lane Zyra.
What is everyone doing about mana management? I've tried several things and I'm just not settled on an optimal route yet. Since zyra has the slowest base move speed in the game I tend not to roam and just shove mid and take both wraith camps over the walls. Athene's is required to keep up this farm pace but you can feel the lack of 30 magic pen early.
Athenes? Rod of Ages? Flask? Doran's Ring x2
I always go for a core build of Deathcap & Lyandries.
A great build dusty gave me is 2x dorans-->guise-->sorcs---->rylias-->liandries--->voidcap. It makes you pretty beefy, and you still do tons of damage. Mana's a bit rough when you don't have blues, but it's more than manageable. I prefer it over athenes because there's no wasted cdr, and it feels like I do more in teamfights. The beefyness helps vs the assassin meta too.
However, I've seen soniv go athenes--->liandires-->w/e and do well too.
So, I'm slowly but surely turning into a support Zyra main, but I'm faced with a problem: she gets picked more and more in soloQ, so i find myself facing her quite often. What supports do well against Zyra, that i could pick if she gets locked by the other team?
On October 15 2013 11:50 Anakko wrote: Nami? Don't you get severely outdamaged? How do you play the matchup?
if you are moving forward on zyra you can't be lined up for a double snare. with your skills giveing you extra ms it throws off the lead the zyra gives for you to be in her q and e. your e gives a ton of damage and slows while your w remains a heal that zyra doesn't have so you'll win the poke wars. max e if you have an adc whos agressive or w if you have one that isn't.
In order to have another support besides leona I've started working on my zyra. Any tips, rules of thumb, general strategies you follow? I know a lot is matchup dependent but I'm hoping to glean what I can from TL
When kiting use one W at a time. That way as they chase you they will always have a plant shooting them. If you pop both when they run by them they are in the clear!
Also, When you makes plants with q they don't slow like they do with E.
If you can have your plants show up behind them if your the aggressor, and in front if they are. Then your plants hit them the most.
The OP says max E and I used to but now I max Q. It does ton's more poke damage and is harder for people to dodge. But I would suggest try both and see what works for you.
Probably not optimal, but fun: if you don't expect jungles ganks, q-w-q makes for a really strong lvl 3, especially with ignite. That harass is so strong.
Also Running 1-22-7 on zyra is pretty good, with hybrid pen reds and hp quints. You're a monster early in lane, just remember to get a couple mana pots.
As for maxing q or e, i like to get 3 points in q early, then max e. Dunno if optimal or i just can't make up my mind lol.
If you get ahead in lane, grabbing a kages is generally a good idea. It makes you even more oppressive in lane, and can later turn into a morello if you're doing extra well. Mobi boots are in general the best boots to get as support, even more as zyra coz you're so slow. Zyra is pretty much the only support with which i don't go full ward bitch, since you have both good base dmg and acceptable ratios. While i prioritize oracles and pinks ofc, it's not uncommon for me to end up with HG and morello by endgame if i get many assists.
Oh and finally i don't get exhaust as zyra anymore. Ignite is just so good.
On November 06 2013 00:30 JimmiC wrote: Here's some random tips.
When kiting use one W at a time. That way as they chase you they will always have a plant shooting them. If you pop both when they run by them they are in the clear!
Also, When you makes plants with q they don't slow like they do with E.
If you can have your plants show up behind them if your the aggressor, and in front if they are. Then your plants hit them the most.
The OP says max E and I used to but now I max Q. It does ton's more poke damage and is harder for people to dodge. But I would suggest try both and see what works for you.
Ya Q max is good, although I'll probably wait until the S4 changes go live before I make any changes to the guide.
On November 06 2013 03:36 Anakko wrote: Probably not optimal, but fun: if you don't expect jungles ganks, q-w-q makes for a really strong lvl 3, especially with ignite. That harass is so strong.
Also Running 1-22-7 on zyra is pretty good, with hybrid pen reds and hp quints. You're a monster early in lane, just remember to get a couple mana pots.
As for maxing q or e, i like to get 3 points in q early, then max e. Dunno if optimal or i just can't make up my mind lol.
If you get ahead in lane, grabbing a kages is generally a good idea. It makes you even more oppressive in lane, and can later turn into a morello if you're doing extra well. Mobi boots are in general the best boots to get as support, even more as zyra coz you're so slow. Zyra is pretty much the only support with which i don't go full ward bitch, since you have both good base dmg and acceptable ratios. While i prioritize oracles and pinks ofc, it's not uncommon for me to end up with HG and morello by endgame if i get many assists.
Oh and finally i don't get exhaust as zyra anymore. Ignite is just so good.
Can't agree more with this post. QWQ is strong as shit if you've got a good feel on their jungle presence, and 1-22-7 with the listed runes is too strong. You pretty much feel like a second ap carry all game.
Zyra will comeback strong. I played almost exclusively sona & zyra in s3. Have been spamming thresh & annie in s4. However with the latest blue buff I will be playing more zyra & morgana. I used to basically only pick morgana vs blitz before but LCS pros have shown me the way ;-) Played a morgana game today. I even started "pool" when I realized the other team leashed blue. It was basically gg before they arrived in lane. We had the first wave almost gone when they showed up. I didn't even steal a creep
Zyra is free elo at the moment if you play her well. Most games end up going to late game where you scale so well compared to other supports. I am consistently top damage and if not, 2nd top damage. Spellthiefs buff really helped her imo. She is strong in lane maxing Q. Only tough matchup is probably a Cait/Lulu lane. Absolutely crushes the current Leo/thresh meta.
I would say running at least 1 HP quint is necessary, unless you are playing heavily into the defensive tree. I have to experiment more to see if the old korean style tank Zyra is still viable (she did lose both base and scaling AP from Q).
Using a standard mid page (hpen reds, ap quints) with a heavy defensive build (15/15 or 21/9) would probably be the best.
On March 14 2014 13:14 krndandaman wrote: ap quints or health quints for support zyra?
shes pretty good lately but not sure how to run her
I favour the one health quint, as mentioned by miicah. I feel like one of the advantages playing Zyra is her damage, so it's worth losing slight tankiness for extra punch.
Build wise, I always go for selfishness. Sightstone only, no Mikael's or Locket or any of that team stuff. Usually Grail -> Liandry's / Rylai's. Liandry's and Rylai's are just so good with her kit.
I play 2 health quints. You really don't need any ap to do a lot of damage and the biggest problem is getting caught and killed instantly, so every hp is valuable.
I'm not a big fan of Grail on Zyra. You don't need the mana-regen and you can get cdr from other sources that are cheaper and deal more damage. I think banner of command is really underrated, because it does all this for 2400 gold, which is incredibly cheap and brings a good damage boost.
As for the OP: The skill order in the op is still bad i think. The way to go is Q -> W -> E -> Qmax. QWQ brings you to lvl 3 without cc, which is terrible in a lot of cases. You can't do much at any kind of gank and you can't save your adc if he messes up and get's cc'd by the opponent's support. EQW just does too little damage on lvl 2.
I suppose QWQ is dependant on their jungle start. If the opposing jungler started blue->wraiths->red->gank not having E would be a huge disadvantage, However if they went the opposite way I'd be more comfortable not getting E until level 4.
You want Q max for laneing because it is easier to hit and the plants do more damage anyway (because of the higher range). In lane you want to harass as much as possible and put pressure on the opponents. After the laning phase ends, your role shifts a lot. In mid/lategame you won't harass anymore and your ability to peel or catch someone becomes more important than the pure damage output that Q max gives you. So you switch to E for the longer snare duration. The timing when to switch from leveling Q to E can differ a lot, depending on when the laneing phase ends. It's not a big deal if you max Q out before going more into E (especially in slow paced games), but it is indeed optimal to switch from Q max to E max depending on the state of the game.
miicah is also correct, that if you know for certain their jungler started bot Q->W->Q is a possibility. I just think you rarely can, especially since botlanes started to go into their lane immediatly and do not help the jungler anymore (because they want to control the fight for lvl2). Q->W->E is in general just safer. Additionally E helps some adcs to hit their skillshots (e.g. Cait, Lucian), so you can get more total damage on to your opponents with E instead of lvl2 Q.
In conclusion, my simple Q->W->E->Qmax was a bit too simplified, but as a general rule it is okay. Q->W->E->Qmax until laneing phase ends, then E max, would be probably the best rule, but that is not a good rule for new players.
There may be cases in which QE is better, but those are very hard to find. For instance, if your jungler plans to lvl 2 cheese-gank QE is probably better. In general the plant damage is just too high though and you can apply more pressure with QW than QE. 2 plant hits with 0 ap is already more damage than lvl 1 E, and you frequently get more than just 2 hits. The plants also help you to control the pace of the lane by zoneing, because (unless in an all-in situation) they will usually run out of the plant range.
On March 15 2014 03:37 Prog wrote: In conclusion, my simple Q->W->E->Qmax was a bit too simplified, but as a general rule it is okay. Q->W->E->Qmax until laneing phase ends, then E max, would be probably the best rule, but that is not a good rule for new players.
She's actually very similar to Nami in this regard, in that Q, E or even W max can all be viable paths.
You're not a tank, no HP quints needed. You get caught you are dead, 23 hp won't save you. QW first is the best option since it is easier to land and W costs no mana. The only time I've ever gone Q then E is something went wrong in lane and me or the ADC is in imminent danger.
On March 15 2014 21:32 Prog wrote: Good luck playing 0 hp quints and 0 defense masteries against something like Annie. I would not dare doing this.
Try it. Either go full ap or full pussy, no half measure. That way you can play accordingly. Since I like starting spellthiefs instead of dorans, might as well go full out damage. The only way you are surviving annie+adc combo as zyra is probably 21 defense, hp ar mr runes with dorans shield.
Anyone tried banner of command? Liandry's is my go to item. I was wondering if anyone tested this
I've been going 9/21 on zyra with AP masteries since I don't have hp quints. at 65% winrate atm although it used to be like 80% at plat1 still my highest winrate champ though other than 10-4 mordekaiser lol. I usually go Q>W>E , sometimes Q>W>Q if I know where jungler is. Pretty much just build full AP I think its probably the easiest way to carry games, usually top damage in pretty much every game. I feel so weak playing on other supports since people just can't seem to put out damage or with a lot of other supports it relies on your ADC following up. With zyra you can just poke and carry lane without much follow up at all from your adc. Item build usually spellthief>frost fang+wards>sightstone>sorc boots>frostqueen/haunting guise>liandry>voidstaff>rabadons>