|
Varus, the Arrow of Retribution![[image loading]](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120407043113/leagueoflegends/images/thumb/1/16/Varus_OriginalSkin.jpg/640px-Varus_OriginalSkin.jpg) Only marksman too sexy for his shirt.
+ Show Spoiler [Season 4 Patch Notes] +V4.5: Rune Rework, April 3rd, 2014
•All champions have had their base armor increased by 4.
+ Show Spoiler [Base Stats] +Health- 400(+82)
Health Regen- 4.5 (+0.55)
Mana- 250 (+36)
Mana Regen- 6.5 (+0.5)
Range- 575
Attack Damage- 46 (+3)
Attack Speed- 0.658 (+3%)
Armor- 17.5 (+3.4)
Resistance- 30
Movement Speed- 330
+ Show Spoiler [Change Log] +V1.0 - 6/6/13
I exist!
V1.1 - 7/30/13
Modified skill/item section, cleaned up some typos, complied with new tags.
V2.0 - 6/30/14
Updated for Season 4.
Abilities
![[image loading]](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120407043738/leagueoflegends/images/f/f6/Living_Vengeance.jpg) Passive: Living Vengence
On a champion kill or assist, Varus gains 40% attack speed for 6 seconds. On a minion kill, Varus gains 20% attack speed for 3 seconds.
+ Show Spoiler +A solid passive. Creep bonus makes CSing easy by saving wasted spells, advantageous trades, and quick turret destruction from high attack speed. Kill/Assist bonus can snowball a team fight or skirmish fast.
![[image loading]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120407043805/leagueoflegends/images/8/86/Piercing_Arrow.jpg) Q: Piercing Arrow
First Cast: Varus starts drawing back his next shot, gradually increasing its range and damage. Maximum range is achieved in 2 seconds.
Second Cast: Varus fires, dealing physical damage to all enemies in the arrow's path, reduced by 15% per enemy hit (down to a minimum of 33%).
While preparing to shoot, Varus cannot auto-attack or use his other abilities, and his movement speed is slowed by 20%. After 4 seconds, Piercing Arrow is automatically cancelled and half of its mana cost is refunded.
Cooldown: 16/14/12/10/8
Cost: 70/75/80/85/90 mana
Minimum Damage: 10/47/83/120/157 (+100% AD)
Maximum Damage: 15/70/125/180/235 (+160% AD)
Range: 850-1475
Projectile Speed: 1900
+ Show Spoiler +Incredible range. Great for picking up farm when you're zoned out, stealing objectives, or sniping down runner from a fight.
![[image loading]](http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120407043834/leagueoflegends/images/d/db/Blighted_Quiver.jpg) W: Blighted Quiver
Passive: Varus' basic attacks deal bonus magic damage. They also apply Blight for 6 seconds, stacking up to 3 times.
Varus' other abilities detonate Blight, dealing magic damage equal to a percentage of the target's maximum health per stack. This damage is capped at 360 against monsters.
On-hit Damage: 10/14/18/22/26 (+25% AP)
Blight Damage per Stack: 2%/2.75%/3.5%/4.25%/5% (+2% per 100AP)
Stacked Blight Damage: 6%/8.25%/10.5%/12.75%/15% (+6% per 100 AP)
+ Show Spoiler +The keystone of Varus' kit. Pew, pew, pew, E R and Q(purely for the rhyme, don't do this as a combo.) %magic damage on a marksman is pretty cool as it makes armor stacking against Varus not as strong as other marksmen.
![[image loading]](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120407043859/leagueoflegends/images/4/44/Hail_of_Arrows.jpg) E: Hail of Arrows
Active: Varus fires a hail of arrows that deals physical damage and desecrates the ground for 4 seconds. Desecrated Ground reduces healing effects by 50% and slows enemy movement speed.
Cooldown: 18/16/14/12/10
Cost: 80 mana
Physical Damage: 65/100/135/170/205 (+60% bonus AD)
Slow: 25%/30%/35%/40%/45%
Range: 925
+ Show Spoiler +Damage, AOE slow, and heal reduction!? Sign me up! Great for pushing clumped up lanes, popping W stacks, and disengaging. The damage was lowered in the most recent change to Varus, but the utility outstrips the change.
![[image loading]](http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120407043923/leagueoflegends/images/3/31/Chain_of_Corruption.jpg) R: Chain of Corruption
Active: Varus flings out a tendril of corruption that infects the first enemy champion hit, dealing magic damage and immobilizing them for 2 seconds. The corruption then attempts to spread towards nearby enemy champions, applying the same damage and immobilize if they stay in range of the infected champion for 2 seconds. The corruption will continue to spread until there are no further targets in range, but each champion may only be infected once per cast.
Cooldown: 120/105/90
Cost: 120 mana
Magic Damage: 150/250/350 (+100% AP)
Spread range: 550
Tendril break range: 600
Range: 1075
Projectile Speed: 2000
+ Show Spoiler +Great teamfighting and disengaging ult. Works well with other AOE CCs to remove their ability to break the tendrils such as Jarvan, Amumu, Nunu, and Rumble. A word of warning: There is a cast time, so take that into account when you use it. Even pro players miss this ult a lot.
When you dance with death, lead: An Overview
Varus is a marksman that mixes the strong auto attack heritage of his position with percentage based magic damage from his spells. Like Ashe, he has no direct escapes or speed boosts and relies on his spells to accomplish that by slowing and snaring. He boasts an above average auto attack range at 575, between the average of 550 and the high 600+ ranges, along with long range skillshots to give him quite a good amount of poke. Given the nature of his % magic damage fighting becomes a rhythmic mix of autos and spells. Bring Varus if your team needs CC and wants some more magic damage in light of popular AD centric comps.
Pros
• Diverse damage types
• Strong range
• CC utility
• Snowballs teamfights
Cons
• No escapes
• No on-demand steroid
• Skillshot reliant
• So sexy it hurts
My arrows always find their marks: The things you carry.
Runes:
Marks: Armor Pen
Seals: Armor
Glyphs: Magic Resist
Quints: AD x1, Attack Speed x2
+ Show Spoiler +Blighted Quiver supplies enough damage to farm effectively under tower, freeing Marks up to better champion damage.
Masteries:
+ Show Spoiler +
Summoner Spells:
![[image loading]](http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140115125446/leagueoflegends/images/7/74/Flash.png) : Trusty flash, don't leave fountain without it.
![[image loading]](http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111115121115/leagueoflegends/images/6/6e/Heal.png) : The "Better than barrier" with a speedbost.
Skill order:
Level 1-3: EWQ
Priority: R>Q>W>E
Items:
The Burst Build
![[image loading]](http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130116005955/leagueoflegends/images/b/bd/Berserker%27s_Greaves_item.png) ![[image loading]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130116010245/leagueoflegends/images/2/2f/Blade_of_the_Ruined_King_item.png) ![[image loading]](http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131123185815/leagueoflegends/images/4/41/Youmuu%27s_Ghostblade_item.png) ![[image loading]](http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130319090549/leagueoflegends/images/b/ba/Last_Whisper_item.png) ![[image loading]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130319090448/leagueoflegends/images/1/15/Infinity_Edge_item.png)
+ Show Spoiler +Makes use of the actives to load up stacks and pop them quickly and prove burst mobility.
The Traditional
![[image loading]](http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130319091131/leagueoflegends/images/c/ce/Phantom_Dancer_item.png) -or-![[image loading]](http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130319091532/leagueoflegends/images/f/f8/Statikk_Shiv_item.png) ![[image loading]](http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130319091558/leagueoflegends/images/7/72/The_Bloodthirster_item.png)
+ Show Spoiler +A more classic AD carry build. Phantom Dancer or Shiv depends on how much you need the waveclear.
The Token Defence
![[image loading]](http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130319090753/leagueoflegends/images/0/0a/Mercurial_Scimitar_item.png) ![[image loading]](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130319090350/leagueoflegends/images/f/f4/Guardian_Angel_item.png) ![[image loading]](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130319090154/leagueoflegends/images/0/03/Banshee%27s_Veil_item.png)
+ Show Spoiler +Scimitar gives solid MR in conjunction with the Bloodthirster shield and the QSS active while letting you pack a bit more punch. Guardian for when you need that 1 extra life. Veil to get away from catch abilities like blind bindings and hooks.
+ Show Spoiler [Credits] +LoLWiki: images, patch notes, and ability information. Alaric: His Vi thread is wonderful, and I heavily borrowed from it for formatting purposes.
|
Well, this has been my first guide in...anything, heh. Keep the criticism constructive and I will keep an open mind.
Plans for the future updates:
Support synergy and opposing AD matchups.
Skill/item revision.
|
Nice Guide!
A few points from me though:
1. I wouldn't take w level, especially on Blueside because it allows for a way better and faster clear of the doublegolems. E lvl 1 best imo because of the slow utility just in case you have some unwanted encounters in the jungle. For early trades AA+AA E is definitely stronger dmg wise than those 10 magic dmg u get from W.
If running ArPent Marks I'd just practice it cs'ing with it in a custom game to adjust to it instead of relying on W.
2. After the latest patch, imo definitely Q>W/E>E/W
Q just does huuuuge dmg now, especially after you get your bt @ 11-13 min. E's dmg nerf is very noticable imo.
What to max second is personal preference, I go E>W because I like the scaling slow % on E and %HP dmg is more important later into the game.
R.I.P. AP Varus
Nashor's nerf and too many assassins too strong.
|
R>q>w>e is the best skill order atm.You start with q level 1 if you are blue side because you one shot small one and get the atk speed buff immediately.You get q if you think you will get zoned on red side so you can take the cs you wouldn't be able to otherwise just get e.
Obviously if a fight happens lvl 1 you will get e but you get skills the last possible second you don't learn them before you need them that's obvious  .
Bt>zeal>lw is my personal favourite build but varus is one of the ad-s that pretty much any build order is viable honestly.
|
On June 06 2013 01:15 AsnSensation wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Nice Guide!
A few points from me though:
1. I wouldn't take w level, especially on Blueside because it allows for a way better and faster clear of the doublegolems. E lvl 1 best imo because of the slow utility just in case you have some unwanted encounters in the jungle. For early trades AA+AA E is definitely stronger dmg wise than those 10 magic dmg u get from W.
If running ArPent Marks I'd just practice it cs'ing with it in a custom game to adjust to it instead of relying on W.
2. After the latest patch, imo definitely Q>W/E>E/W
Q just does huuuuge dmg now, especially after you get your bt @ 11-13 min. E's dmg nerf is very noticable imo.
What to max second is personal preference, I go E>W because I like the scaling slow % on E and %HP dmg is more important later into the game.
R.I.P. AP Varus
Nashor's nerf and too many assassins too strong.
On June 06 2013 01:25 nafta wrote:+ Show Spoiler +R>q>w>e is the best skill order atm.You start with q level 1 if you are blue side because you one shot small one and get the atk speed buff immediately.You get q if you think you will get zoned on red side so you can take the cs you wouldn't be able to otherwise just get e. Obviously if a fight happens lvl 1 you will get e but you get skills the last possible second you don't learn them before you need them that's obvious . Bt>zeal>lw is my personal favourite build but varus is one of the ad-s that pretty much any build order is viable honestly.
I'll try out the lvl 1 stuff and see how I feel about it, even on paper I can see the merit on it. The ArPen marks are using the onhit damage make up for siding out AD reds for turret farming purposes. I've been having issues lately finding friends to jump in a custom game and push for me lately, which was an issue when I was rewriting the rune portion of the guide. Though in most realistic situations you aren't going to be pushed in lane until level 2 anyway.
I'll put in Q/BT first as another option, though I feel they are both viable options. I just followed what I saw the majority of Koreans do.
Anything in particular you guys liked?
|
Hurricane should be more core than Shiv on Varus. It lets you rack up W stacks on 3 people in team fights and tearing them apart with when you land a skill and give arguably better wave clear than Shiv does. It may be my personal preference but I usually get better results when I get Hurricane for my main AS item.
|
Well I don't read any guides so my opinion on it doesn't mean anything :D.If someone needs to read something like this it's good I am only disagreeing with some of the stuff said ^^.
|
Valhalla18444 Posts
How come his Q's tooltip says he draws back his next shot, but it doesn't apply on-hit effects?
|
On June 06 2013 02:19 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
How come his Q's tooltip says he draws back his next shot, but it doesn't apply on-hit effects?
Because it's a bow? ¯\(°_o)/¯
|
On June 06 2013 00:56 Gahlo wrote:
If you go BotRK, you get a bottleneck with your AS between it and Berzerker Greaves. I tend to buy a Pickaxe before finishing BotRK to fix this. It causes a more organic stat buildup, allows opponent HP pools to build up more to make the most of the advantage of the active, and gives a quick transition into LW if you find yourself needing it a lot sooner than you would have thought. Shiv is picked over PD for mainly clearing, while tossing a tad more MS and magic AOE into the mix.
maybe it won't be so great after the nerf, but i've been rushing elder lizard before botrk to provide an early balance between ad and attack speed and it feels pretty good.
the ad and passive burn make your long range poke hurt more and the spirit stone regen seems to put you over the line between running oom a little too frequently and having adequate mana to get stuff done.
as far as skilling is concerned, am i wrong for putting a 2nd point in Q first even if i'm maxing E? going from 15 to 70 base damage on a charged up Q seems like one of the highest % increase in base damage for a single skill point that i've seen.
also what do you guys think of varus mid? i started playing him there to replicate the way jayce can take huge chunks of a squishy champs hp by landing Q's from a safe distance and it has worked nicely so far. it'd probably be painful if you take a single step wrong against someone like zed or khazix, but against standard ap casters your Q outranges like everything and a couple auto's followed by an E seems to trade pretty nicely as long as you aren't taking every opponent skillshot in the face.
|
Valhalla18444 Posts
Varus is such an excellent champion. Easy to balance because of the simplicity of his kit, but it comes together really really well. Was very impressed by his design.
And I maintain that Varus is the universe's only male Harpy, which explains why he is so grumpy all the time. Them womens is cray
|
Thoughts on Ruunan's? Each bolt procs W if I'm not mistake, and the AoE lines up pretty well with E.
|
On June 06 2013 08:34 Apoptotic wrote:
Thoughts on Ruunan's? Each bolt procs W if I'm not mistake, and the AoE lines up pretty well with E.
No movement speed on it. It's "win-more."
|
On June 06 2013 08:34 Apoptotic wrote:
Thoughts on Ruunan's? Each bolt procs W if I'm not mistake, and the AoE lines up pretty well with E.
It sucks, costs too much, doesnt give enough single target damage to burn down tanks in mid game, and it delays ie/crit/lw combo that you need to really kill people mid->late game, all so that you can do a bit more aoe that might not even be useful in a teamfight (other team too spread).
|
Which ADC arguably benefits the most from Runnan's??
|
On June 07 2013 11:32 GhostOwl wrote:
Which ADC arguably benefits the most from Runnan's??
Probably Graves. He can take advantage of the extra hits to lower Quick Draw's cd, this having it inadvertantly give him mobility. However, the question really comes down to "Who does this item suck the least on?"
|
On June 07 2013 11:32 GhostOwl wrote:
Which ADC arguably benefits the most from Runnan's??
Caitlyn. She benefits from Hurricane procs even on minions, and her long range lets her be far more likely to get multiple relevant targets.
|
On June 07 2013 15:25 JALbert wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 11:32 GhostOwl wrote:
Which ADC arguably benefits the most from Runnan's?? Caitlyn. She benefits from Hurricane procs even on minions, and her long range lets her be far more likely to get multiple relevant targets.
What am I reading?
No one should be in range to be hit by hurricane if you're playing caitlyn.
|
On June 06 2013 01:25 nafta wrote:R>q>w>e is the best skill order atm.You start with q level 1 if you are blue side because you one shot small one and get the atk speed buff immediately.You get q if you think you will get zoned on red side so you can take the cs you wouldn't be able to otherwise just get e. Obviously if a fight happens lvl 1 you will get e but you get skills the last possible second you don't learn them before you need them that's obvious . Bt>zeal>lw is my personal favourite build but varus is one of the ad-s that pretty much any build order is viable honestly.
How exactly do you kill the small golem in 1 hit? It has 300 hp :/ Maybe if your support throws an ability + auto too... But it's definitely not one shot!
|
Hmm, I never start with W first. I always start with either Q or E and max Q or E depending upon the lane. I always get W when I hit lvl 3 but I max it last depending on how I feel the game is going.
I always start with 1 Dorans and rush Bloodthirster then boots then PD then IE then LW and either GA or something else. I don't see the need for a Shiv because Varus has pretty good waveclear as it is and is just a waste of space in general in my opinon. Sometimes I go with BOTRK but not always. I prefer BT.
I just love Varus because he can be either very aggressive or very safe in lane.
|
On June 07 2013 23:37 Disengaged wrote:
Hmm, I never start with W first. I always start with either Q or E and max Q or E depending upon the lane. I always get W when I hit lvl 3 but I max it last depending on how I feel the game is going.
I always start with 1 Dorans and rush Bloodthirster then boots then PD then IE then LW and either GA or something else. I don't see the need for a Shiv because Varus has pretty good waveclear as it is and is just a waste of space in general in my opinon. Sometimes I go with BOTRK but not always. I prefer BT.
I just love Varus because he can be either very aggressive or very safe in lane.
I like W first because outside of invade fights, auto attacks are at a premiuim for harassing early, and Varus has the hardest hitting autos in botlane sans Draven, I think. Though I am exploring Q or E first currently.
I could see PD being worth it if I was getting IE as my 3rd item, but I delay it for my last offensive item. I put a very high premium on pushing with Varus and usuing max Q and 1 auto to clear a wave is the fastest, most mana efficient way I've found.
There's a reason I suggest 2x Butcher and Destruction over 3x Havoc.
|
if you don't put your first point into W i gotta think taking it level 2 to be able to do a combo, whether you took Q or E level 1, is better than waiting until 3 to be able to detonate blight stacks.
|
Long overdue, will update this weekend.
|
I max Q, rush BT, then doubleswords followed by LW. You get free attack speed from the passive and with LW your Q's hit so hard.
|
I've fallen in love with the more caster centric varus build, very similar to jayce's pokebuild of brutaliser>tear> bloodthirster/LW/manamune, running full arpen reds and quints.
level E>Q>W with a point in W at level 2. Start maxing Q when E hits level 3, since E is the better lane trading tool and Q is the better late game poke and lane clear.
Basic strategy is chip poking with W and Q against cait and ashe who can trade easily with you, against anyone else auto>E so they're in the leading 3rd of the E circle. If they come in to trade, back out, if they try and run through the slow, chase and add another auto or two. I don't think I've ever come off the worse doing that trade, even against someone fed.
If you get ahead in lane it's game over. Just nail them with Q and E on cooldown and CS with your ridiculously beefy autos. If they stay in lane flash-ult-auto-E-charge Q and ping them when they flash or if you get a CC chain going on the spot
Caster varus can hold botlane 1v2 once he has bruta+tear and not miss much CS since his Q E combo clears a whole wave from like 750 range and trying to zone him will just lead to you losing half your health to a combo. It's hands down the best for fighting in lane too, since your damage is so frontloaded, if you pick a fight with the enemy carry at less than 2/3 health, they'll die within a 1.5 second stun or root from 1 auto+E+Q+R. normal carry builds might do slightly more damage, but over a lot longer time, and when you unleash all your damage on them they'll mostly panic and fail to trade effectively (or just be dead outright if you're ahead)
He snowballs monstrously, is incredibly hard to shut down, is super safe and does reliable damage. It's basically like playing lux as an ADC. what more could you want.
|
On July 22 2013 10:48 Thereisnosaurus wrote:
I've fallen in love with the more caster centric varus build, very similar to jayce's pokebuild of brutaliser>tear> bloodthirster/LW/manamune, running full arpen reds and quints.
level E>Q>W with a point in W at level 2. Start maxing Q when E hits level 3, since E is the better lane trading tool and Q is the better late game poke and lane clear.
Basic strategy is chip poking with W and Q against cait and ashe who can trade easily with you, against anyone else auto>E so they're in the leading 3rd of the E circle. If they come in to trade, back out, if they try and run through the slow, chase and add another auto or two. I don't think I've ever come off the worse doing that trade, even against someone fed.
If you get ahead in lane it's game over. Just nail them with Q and E on cooldown and CS with your ridiculously beefy autos. If they stay in lane flash-ult-auto-E-charge Q and ping them when they flash or if you get a CC chain going on the spot
Caster varus can hold botlane 1v2 once he has bruta+tear and not miss much CS since his Q E combo clears a whole wave from like 750 range and trying to zone him will just lead to you losing half your health to a combo. It's hands down the best for fighting in lane too, since your damage is so frontloaded, if you pick a fight with the enemy carry at less than 2/3 health, they'll die within a 1.5 second stun or root from 1 auto+E+Q+R. normal carry builds might do slightly more damage, but over a lot longer time, and when you unleash all your damage on them they'll mostly panic and fail to trade effectively (or just be dead outright if you're ahead)
He snowballs monstrously, is incredibly hard to shut down, is super safe and does reliable damage. It's basically like playing lux as an ADC. what more could you want.
40% CD reduction = 4.8 second Q's.
Gotta love em :D
|
On July 29 2013 09:05 Disengaged wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 10:48 Thereisnosaurus wrote:
I've fallen in love with the more caster centric varus build, very similar to jayce's pokebuild of brutaliser>tear> bloodthirster/LW/manamune, running full arpen reds and quints.
level E>Q>W with a point in W at level 2. Start maxing Q when E hits level 3, since E is the better lane trading tool and Q is the better late game poke and lane clear.
Basic strategy is chip poking with W and Q against cait and ashe who can trade easily with you, against anyone else auto>E so they're in the leading 3rd of the E circle. If they come in to trade, back out, if they try and run through the slow, chase and add another auto or two. I don't think I've ever come off the worse doing that trade, even against someone fed.
If you get ahead in lane it's game over. Just nail them with Q and E on cooldown and CS with your ridiculously beefy autos. If they stay in lane flash-ult-auto-E-charge Q and ping them when they flash or if you get a CC chain going on the spot
Caster varus can hold botlane 1v2 once he has bruta+tear and not miss much CS since his Q E combo clears a whole wave from like 750 range and trying to zone him will just lead to you losing half your health to a combo. It's hands down the best for fighting in lane too, since your damage is so frontloaded, if you pick a fight with the enemy carry at less than 2/3 health, they'll die within a 1.5 second stun or root from 1 auto+E+Q+R. normal carry builds might do slightly more damage, but over a lot longer time, and when you unleash all your damage on them they'll mostly panic and fail to trade effectively (or just be dead outright if you're ahead)
He snowballs monstrously, is incredibly hard to shut down, is super safe and does reliable damage. It's basically like playing lux as an ADC. what more could you want.
40% CD reduction = 4.8 second Q's. Gotta love em :D
But it doesn't reduce the charge up time on Q :p. (Eg if you have full cd you need to use 2 of every 8 seconds charging Q, but with 40% cdr you need to spend 2 of every 4.8 seconds charging Q to get the most out of your Q and CDR. That doesn't leave much time for autos.
And his W has no direct effect from cdr. Doesn't seem like the best champ to get CDR on.
|
On July 29 2013 13:06 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2013 09:05 Disengaged wrote:On July 22 2013 10:48 Thereisnosaurus wrote:
I've fallen in love with the more caster centric varus build, very similar to jayce's pokebuild of brutaliser>tear> bloodthirster/LW/manamune, running full arpen reds and quints.
level E>Q>W with a point in W at level 2. Start maxing Q when E hits level 3, since E is the better lane trading tool and Q is the better late game poke and lane clear.
Basic strategy is chip poking with W and Q against cait and ashe who can trade easily with you, against anyone else auto>E so they're in the leading 3rd of the E circle. If they come in to trade, back out, if they try and run through the slow, chase and add another auto or two. I don't think I've ever come off the worse doing that trade, even against someone fed.
If you get ahead in lane it's game over. Just nail them with Q and E on cooldown and CS with your ridiculously beefy autos. If they stay in lane flash-ult-auto-E-charge Q and ping them when they flash or if you get a CC chain going on the spot
Caster varus can hold botlane 1v2 once he has bruta+tear and not miss much CS since his Q E combo clears a whole wave from like 750 range and trying to zone him will just lead to you losing half your health to a combo. It's hands down the best for fighting in lane too, since your damage is so frontloaded, if you pick a fight with the enemy carry at less than 2/3 health, they'll die within a 1.5 second stun or root from 1 auto+E+Q+R. normal carry builds might do slightly more damage, but over a lot longer time, and when you unleash all your damage on them they'll mostly panic and fail to trade effectively (or just be dead outright if you're ahead)
He snowballs monstrously, is incredibly hard to shut down, is super safe and does reliable damage. It's basically like playing lux as an ADC. what more could you want.
40% CD reduction = 4.8 second Q's. Gotta love em :D But it doesn't reduce the charge up time on Q :p. (Eg if you have full cd you need to use 2 of every 8 seconds charging Q, but with 40% cdr you need to spend 2 of every 4.8 seconds charging Q to get the most out of your Q and CDR. That doesn't leave much time for autos. And his W has no direct effect from cdr. Doesn't seem like the best champ to get CDR on.
Sure it is. Also, that 4.8 cd Q is mainly for poking and even when you get into a fight you can basically hit Q then instantly get it off so the wind up time doesn't really matter. You'd still be auto attacking in the fight with the somewhat frequent Q's. Still, it also depends on your positioning in the fight. Having 40% CD is still great for his Q, E, and R.
What I'm trying to say is that it works if things work out in your favor. If the game isn't going your way then getting 40% CD probably isn't what you wanna go for 
|
On July 29 2013 09:05 Disengaged wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2013 10:48 Thereisnosaurus wrote:
I've fallen in love with the more caster centric varus build, very similar to jayce's pokebuild of brutaliser>tear> bloodthirster/LW/manamune, running full arpen reds and quints.
level E>Q>W with a point in W at level 2. Start maxing Q when E hits level 3, since E is the better lane trading tool and Q is the better late game poke and lane clear.
Basic strategy is chip poking with W and Q against cait and ashe who can trade easily with you, against anyone else auto>E so they're in the leading 3rd of the E circle. If they come in to trade, back out, if they try and run through the slow, chase and add another auto or two. I don't think I've ever come off the worse doing that trade, even against someone fed.
If you get ahead in lane it's game over. Just nail them with Q and E on cooldown and CS with your ridiculously beefy autos. If they stay in lane flash-ult-auto-E-charge Q and ping them when they flash or if you get a CC chain going on the spot
Caster varus can hold botlane 1v2 once he has bruta+tear and not miss much CS since his Q E combo clears a whole wave from like 750 range and trying to zone him will just lead to you losing half your health to a combo. It's hands down the best for fighting in lane too, since your damage is so frontloaded, if you pick a fight with the enemy carry at less than 2/3 health, they'll die within a 1.5 second stun or root from 1 auto+E+Q+R. normal carry builds might do slightly more damage, but over a lot longer time, and when you unleash all your damage on them they'll mostly panic and fail to trade effectively (or just be dead outright if you're ahead)
He snowballs monstrously, is incredibly hard to shut down, is super safe and does reliable damage. It's basically like playing lux as an ADC. what more could you want.
40% CD reduction = 4.8 second Q's. Gotta love em :D
Could you post an example of a 30-40% CDR build that doesnt sacrifice a ton of damage?
|
CDR boots, Black Cleaver, 4% offense mastery gives 29% and is pretty unobtrusive.
|
On July 29 2013 14:08 TheHumanSensation wrote:
CDR boots, Black Cleaver, 4% offense mastery gives 29% and is pretty unobtrusive.
It's still a lot of damage lost especially if you get more cdr items eg ghostblade.
Also you won't use your Q to its max potential if you just shoot it off as soon as you get it. I think most Varus tend to charge it up to snipe fleeing champs.
|
Zephyr is a potentially interesting item for Varus. It recently came up in General about how cost efficient the item is if you can make use of all the stats. For someone with no built in escape like Varus, the extra movement speed and tenacity are fantastic (It's provides the highest % movement speed in the game). He makes good use of CDR, as pointed out above. Unfortunately if you get it early you're probably losing out on some crit, but against certain teams it may be worthwhile.
Tried it last game, opening with 2 dorans and boots, into BT like I usually do on Varus, and followed this up with Zephyr. It felt really good (their team had a lot of cc and things to dodge). It might be worth considering as a CDR item, or a good Varus item in general. I personally intend to experiment significantly with Zephyr on ADC's and I feel that Varus makes some of the best use of the item of any ADC.
|
On July 30 2013 19:41 Wetty wrote:
Zephyr is a potentially interesting item for Varus. It recently came up in General about how cost efficient the item is if you can make use of all the stats. For someone with no built in escape like Varus, the extra movement speed and tenacity are fantastic (It's provides the highest % movement speed in the game). He makes good use of CDR, as pointed out above. Unfortunately if you get it early you're probably losing out on some crit, but against certain teams it may be worthwhile.
Tried it last game, opening with 2 dorans and boots, into BT like I usually do on Varus, and followed this up with Zephyr. It felt really good (their team had a lot of cc and things to dodge). It might be worth considering as a CDR item, or a good Varus item in general. I personally intend to experiment significantly with Zephyr on ADC's and I feel that Varus makes some of the best use of the item of any ADC.
I love Zephy in a vacuum, but on Marksmen not building out of a zeal is painful.
|
I am playing amumu now. he's one of the best junglers among the champions. Item build need to be good.
|
On August 05 2013 20:05 wielkiwojownik wrote:I am playing amumu now. he's one of the best junglers among the champions. Item build need to be good.
I think you have the wrong thread.
|
I have troubles deciding when it's a good idea to pick BotRK over BT, any advice ? I usually pick it when they have 2 tanky champs and/or many CCs, but I feel like it's the case in every game :/
|
On November 20 2013 08:09 Sakray wrote:
I have troubles deciding when it's a good idea to pick BotRK over BT, any advice ? I usually pick it when they have 2 tanky champs and/or many CCs, but I feel like it's the case in every game :/
Always bt.Get bork only if they have udyr/shyvana or some champ like that with bork.Most of the time as varus you just poke and initiate fights he sucks as an actual adc.
|
BT 100%. I'll admit that I have let this guide get a little out of date. When Riot decided to alter Varus, and then BotRK afterwards, they made whatever gap there was between BT and BotRK widen to the point where BotRK is outdated on him.
|
On November 20 2013 08:09 Sakray wrote:
I have troubles deciding when it's a good idea to pick BotRK over BT, any advice ? I usually pick it when they have 2 tanky champs and/or many CCs, but I feel like it's the case in every game :/
For Varus first item should be BT all the way. He has ridiculous AD scaling due to his passive (bonus attack speed after the first creep/champion goes down makes AD more valuable and attack speed much less valuable), Q and E (2.2 to 1.6 AD scaling depending on when you shoot). Varus does not get much from BotRK's active because he will be within its range so little and because Varus isn't auto attack focused (rather he auto attacks to get his W procs up) the bonus physical damage on hit is not particularly strong.
Generally when I play Varus i go BT->LW->Shiv/PD
Once i have BT, LW is the best tank busting item hands down. (Cleaver is right behind it but decently far). If the enemy is really tanky and you still haven't completed BT its ok to get LW first.
From there you're going to tranistion into a standard ADC or stack more AD. At this point it might make sense to get BotRK. Because you can use the attack speed, lifesteal, and the bonus damage isn't bad at all. But you're probably better off getting a Shiv to get more AOE damage(also cheaper) and move speed, or an IE to get more single target damage, or even a Zephyr if you need some tenacity.
|
Usually I go doran => vamp => BF/berzerk depending on my money and the lane => BT => berzerk if not finished => PD => IE => LW => GA
GA might be earlier if needed, but I feel that BT/LW is strong if you score kills early and can land 90% of your max range Q.
If I go botrk I do doran => cutlass => berserk => botrk, then either PD/IE or Zeal/IE/PD
|
If you have BT already, LW is the more efficient auto attack item. You should almost never buy anything but LW as your second AD item.
|
On November 21 2013 01:08 Sakray wrote:
Usually I go doran => vamp => BF/berzerk depending on my money and the lane => BT => berzerk if not finished => PD => IE => LW => GA
GA might be earlier if needed, but I feel that BT/LW is strong if you score kills early and can land 90% of your max range Q.
If I go botrk I do doran => cutlass => berserk => botrk, then either PD/IE or Zeal/IE/PD
Gourmin already said a few things, but i want to adress why this method is inferior currently.
3-path item timing into defensive item is more common now than ever. With 3-path item timing the idea is that you with a combination of 3 highly expensive items can be the carry that your team needs for burst/sustained DPS and sieging potential.
Right now the most commons 3-paths are:
IE -> PD -> LW
Tri-force -> BT -> LW
BT -> LW -> PD/Shiv
Botrk -> IE -> LW
What these 3 paths have in common is the Last Whisper. With LW you can threaten the enemy front-line alot more than with a path consisting of BT -> PD -> IE or Tri-force -> BT -> IE, because this sort of item path suggests that your enemy will not buy armor and that is highly unlikely today with the popularity of randuins/frozen/zhonyas.
So why is it important that it must be a 3-path and not 4 or 5?
Previously, when ADC's were played, everyone had the idea that only the AD Carry would be relevant in the late-game and thus all the farm should go to the AD Carry, because a 6-item AD could 1v5 with some backup.
While this is still completely true today, the game has shifted more; Mid-laners tend to roam alot more and snowball off that, junglers aren't linear (in Season 2 double gp10 into aura items was the norm and we only saw tanks like Maokai/Nauti/Amumu) and can build damage if ahead early, top lane is snowbally as always. This means that from being the 1st position in every single game, AD Carry's can now be in 2nd or 3rd position, without the overall team's damage threat decreasing.
So basically today, you have to rely on a steady core, rather than always having a shot of getting 6-items because you're the most important person on the team. So when do you choose what?
Tri-force isn't common on Varus and this path is mainly for Ezreal and Corki (I would say Kog'maw aswell, but it does not seem like the trend will catch on).
IE+PD+LW is tank shredding. Extremely good against high resistance targets, such as Malphite and Shen
Botrk+IE+LW is against high health targets that tend to build resistances, but don't have it in their kit, such as Nasus and Renekton. This path is also good against assassins, due to the botrk active.
The last path that is legit for Varus, is the AD-Caster path. By going BT -> LW your Q and E will do extreme damage on EVERYONE and since you're getting it so early, nobody will have enough armor and health to sustain themselves.
Regarding defensive items, since this is usually your 4th item choice (not counting boots or dolan blade) you have few options:
Guardian Angel - Pretty nice, when you just know that whatever the fuck you do, you're gonna die, because your team is shit.
Banshee's Veil - I'm buying this more often than i used to, with good reasoning; the spell-shield is SO good and with proper positioning it won't be off before every fight, which makes it rather legit against bursty AP's, AoE comps or engagers like Lee Sin, Nautilus, Thresh and Blitzcrank.
Mercurial Scimitar - I rarely buy this, mainly because its so fucking expensive, and there's nobody who plays Supression users (Warwick, Malzahar, Urgot). It's OP if they have something that you simply need to cleanse off, but i always end up buying BV because it's cheaper and gives me health aswell.
Warmog's Armor - Meh, don't buy this anymore unless you see a benefit buying pure HP. The champions where mass HP would work, you could always go with Randuins (or just have better positioning) but i would recommend buying GA instead.
|
What I dislike in the BT=>LW build is that outside of your boots you lack attack speed, especially if you can't get your passive on, which also means less sustain. If your team can protect you it's good then, but from my experience this build is kinda worth it when you managed to score kills in early game, otherwise your dps is gonna be lower than when making PD.
Maybe a BT => Zeal => LW would work better imo
|
BT>LW is fucking awful. It's the fastest way to make yourself useless in teamfights. You need a Zeal in there at least. If you want to do a strictly poke based build, pick Jayce.
|
Belgium9947 Posts
What do you guys think of getting zhonyas as a defensive item on varus, instead of GA? With the mixed pen it actually adds a decent amount of damage.
|
On November 22 2013 11:15 Gahlo wrote:
BT>LW is fucking awful. It's the fastest way to make yourself useless in teamfights. You need a Zeal in there at least. If you want to do a strictly poke based build, pick Jayce.
interesting, so a decent amount of pro adcs who build that way are all wrong but you are correct.
How much time to auto attack do you have in early game teamfights? Caster based AD builds are common and very usefull if you use them correctly. You can't expect to play it based on autoattacks, but with the common Q max strategy you can definitely have an impact on early fights.
|
On November 22 2013 19:11 Tula wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 11:15 Gahlo wrote:
BT>LW is fucking awful. It's the fastest way to make yourself useless in teamfights. You need a Zeal in there at least. If you want to do a strictly poke based build, pick Jayce. interesting, so a decent amount of pro adcs who build that way are all wrong but you are correct. How much time to auto attack do you have in early game teamfights? Caster based AD builds are common and very usefull if you use them correctly. You can't expect to play it based on autoattacks, but with the common Q max strategy you can definitely have an impact on early fights.
If we're blindly following pros opinions, Doublelift agrees with me. The main proponent of the BT>LW build is Genja, who is renowned for doing oddball to straight fucking bad S3 builds.
|
On November 22 2013 19:44 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 19:11 Tula wrote:On November 22 2013 11:15 Gahlo wrote:
BT>LW is fucking awful. It's the fastest way to make yourself useless in teamfights. You need a Zeal in there at least. If you want to do a strictly poke based build, pick Jayce. interesting, so a decent amount of pro adcs who build that way are all wrong but you are correct. How much time to auto attack do you have in early game teamfights? Caster based AD builds are common and very usefull if you use them correctly. You can't expect to play it based on autoattacks, but with the common Q max strategy you can definitely have an impact on early fights. If we're blindly following pros opinions, Doublelift agrees with me. The main proponent of the BT>LW build is Genja, who is renowned for doing oddball to straight fucking bad S3 builds.
You are willfully blind. The difference in build is a matter of playstyle choice. Genja built like an AD caster because he does not autoattack during teamfights (mostly because gambit as a whole does not peel for the ADC, they dive the enemy instead in 90% of their strategies). So why should he build attack speed if most of his teamfight contribution is shooting his skills and then trying to add autos once the initial madness is over (or tries to run like hell if they lost the fight).
You can advocate the classic AD build (meaning aspeed, crit and damage multiplying) but if you want to play that way why are you taking a champion who by design does not operate like that? No other ADC gets a bonus for holding his autos for a second or two (Q casting). You go on playing your style, but please don't come in and say something is fucking awful if you don't want to play a champion the way he is designed.
Also if you want to cite a pro to blindly follow next time, at least pick someone who plays that char. Doublelift might be a great vayne player, but I certainly don't remember a single Varus game by him in the LCS.
|
On November 22 2013 20:25 Tula wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 19:44 Gahlo wrote:On November 22 2013 19:11 Tula wrote:On November 22 2013 11:15 Gahlo wrote:
BT>LW is fucking awful. It's the fastest way to make yourself useless in teamfights. You need a Zeal in there at least. If you want to do a strictly poke based build, pick Jayce. interesting, so a decent amount of pro adcs who build that way are all wrong but you are correct. How much time to auto attack do you have in early game teamfights? Caster based AD builds are common and very usefull if you use them correctly. You can't expect to play it based on autoattacks, but with the common Q max strategy you can definitely have an impact on early fights. If we're blindly following pros opinions, Doublelift agrees with me. The main proponent of the BT>LW build is Genja, who is renowned for doing oddball to straight fucking bad S3 builds. You are willfully blind. The difference in build is a matter of playstyle choice. Genja built like an AD caster because he does not autoattack during teamfights (mostly because gambit as a whole does not peel for the ADC, they dive the enemy instead in 90% of their strategies). So why should he build attack speed if most of his teamfight contribution is shooting his skills and then trying to add autos once the initial madness is over (or tries to run like hell if they lost the fight). You can advocate the classic AD build (meaning aspeed, crit and damage multiplying) but if you want to play that way why are you taking a champion who by design does not operate like that? No other ADC gets a bonus for holding his autos for a second or two (Q casting). You go on playing your style, but please don't come in and say something is fucking awful if you don't want to play a champion the way he is designed. Also if you want to cite a pro to blindly follow next time, at least pick someone who plays that char. Doublelift might be a great vayne player, but I certainly don't remember a single Varus game by him in the LCS.
If your team isn't peeling for you, the last thing you want to do is be slow as hell until your third item as you'll have 0 kite ability. Otherwise the only way to be safe if to pop off a Q and then do largely nothing in a fight.
If you want to debate that it follows how he is designed, why would you put your spells on cd, then plink in some autos during cleanup? The whole point of his W it to load up stacks for blow up with your other abilities. Varus is an AD Carry, not an AD Caster.
Doublelift's champion pool in S3 was often restricted by what his team was capable of playing. If he can play one of the most mechanic intensive AD carries, what makes you think he could possibly do poorly with one of the easiest?
|
On November 22 2013 20:48 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 20:25 Tula wrote:On November 22 2013 19:44 Gahlo wrote:On November 22 2013 19:11 Tula wrote:On November 22 2013 11:15 Gahlo wrote:
BT>LW is fucking awful. It's the fastest way to make yourself useless in teamfights. You need a Zeal in there at least. If you want to do a strictly poke based build, pick Jayce. interesting, so a decent amount of pro adcs who build that way are all wrong but you are correct. How much time to auto attack do you have in early game teamfights? Caster based AD builds are common and very usefull if you use them correctly. You can't expect to play it based on autoattacks, but with the common Q max strategy you can definitely have an impact on early fights. If we're blindly following pros opinions, Doublelift agrees with me. The main proponent of the BT>LW build is Genja, who is renowned for doing oddball to straight fucking bad S3 builds. You are willfully blind. The difference in build is a matter of playstyle choice. Genja built like an AD caster because he does not autoattack during teamfights (mostly because gambit as a whole does not peel for the ADC, they dive the enemy instead in 90% of their strategies). So why should he build attack speed if most of his teamfight contribution is shooting his skills and then trying to add autos once the initial madness is over (or tries to run like hell if they lost the fight). You can advocate the classic AD build (meaning aspeed, crit and damage multiplying) but if you want to play that way why are you taking a champion who by design does not operate like that? No other ADC gets a bonus for holding his autos for a second or two (Q casting). You go on playing your style, but please don't come in and say something is fucking awful if you don't want to play a champion the way he is designed. Also if you want to cite a pro to blindly follow next time, at least pick someone who plays that char. Doublelift might be a great vayne player, but I certainly don't remember a single Varus game by him in the LCS. If your team isn't peeling for you, the last thing you want to do is be slow as hell until your third item as you'll have 0 kite ability. Otherwise the only way to be safe if to pop off a Q and then do largely nothing in a fight. If you want to debate that it follows how he is designed, why would you put your spells on cd, then plink in some autos during cleanup? The whole point of his W it to load up stacks for blow up with your other abilities. Varus is an AD Carry, not an AD Caster. Doublelift's champion pool in S3 was often restricted by what his team was capable of playing. If he can play one of the most mechanic intensive AD carries, what makes you think he could possibly do poorly with one of the easiest?
....
Nothing about Varus is "easier" it is "different". If you fail to grasp even that little I'm sorry go pray at the altar of doublelift, for myself I'll stick to people who actually play a champion. Yes in the lategame his W is a significant part of his damage, but as we all know (or at least I certainly hope we know) %health is not very effective in the early to mid game. His arguably strongest ability is his Q (since the changes, before that I'd say it was his E), coupled with his ult. That is what Varus brings to the table, a massive teamfight ult and strong spells.
If you want a autoattack carry who does most of his damage by shooting people with AAs there is literally nothing he can do that another char cannot do better. I'm not sure why exactly you think he "needs" a zeal early when there is nothing specific on zeal that helps him in his Niche at that point in time. It might be nice to have it, but it is not and should not be the priority over LW and BT. Those two items are his powerspike, and they come at a point in time where he is generally most usefull.
In the true late game champions with a stronger steroid obviously out scale him, so why would you go for a stacking item build to try and multiply his damage when his true strength is at a different time of the game?
Obviously not every teamcomp can use that power spike, you might not want/be able to use poke/sieges at that point in time, but if you don't want that why exactly are you taking Varus instead of Tristana, Vayne, Lucian, Jinx etc. etc. etc.
Some adcs have a rather clearly defined Place. Varus is the pokey (if that is a word) AD Caster. Why? Because in addition to his poke he has an ult that makes turning around a fight (or even disengaging a fight) easier.
|
On November 22 2013 19:44 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 19:11 Tula wrote:On November 22 2013 11:15 Gahlo wrote:
BT>LW is fucking awful. It's the fastest way to make yourself useless in teamfights. You need a Zeal in there at least. If you want to do a strictly poke based build, pick Jayce. interesting, so a decent amount of pro adcs who build that way are all wrong but you are correct. How much time to auto attack do you have in early game teamfights? Caster based AD builds are common and very usefull if you use them correctly. You can't expect to play it based on autoattacks, but with the common Q max strategy you can definitely have an impact on early fights. If we're blindly following pros opinions, Doublelift agrees with me. The main proponent of the BT>LW build is Genja, who is renowned for doing oddball to straight fucking bad S3 builds.
Genja is known for building tear on Varus yeah, but just because he follow like every single decent Varus player's build, doesn'´t mean he's less shit than doublelift. Seriously, you give Doublelift too much praising when him and Genja are like the opposite of each other. It's like comparing Reginald to Froggen or Diamondprox to TheOddOne, people excel at different things. Doubelift has always and will always be praised for his Vayne mechanics and being the sole carry for CLG, but his positioning is god awful, and he relies on his team to protect him in team fights. Genja excels at being a 3rd position AD Carry, and he does it fucking well. This is why his build is so damn weird (BT+Manamune Ashe is a good example here), he's not supposed to be carrying Gambit; they usually split themselves up in 2 groups, having Genja deal with the tanks while Diamondprox/Darien just dives into their front-line with Alex. It makes sense for Gambit Gaming, because they've had this method of team fighting strategy since forever and now that Edward is back in the game, i doubt they will develop something new method, because it works really well because of Genja's positioning being so superior considering he's a 3rd position carry.
|
Varus is without a doubt easier to play because you have to do less. Your AA range is bigger, you have CC, and the range you threaten is much larger. I barely like Dlift, but he has a better idea of how to play AD Carry than most people, especially Genja who folded up like a cheap suit when he didn't have EDWard to carry him. What you're failing to grasp about his W damage is that, by that time each of his autos is hitting for ~200 damage(near 2/3s of max charge Q) plus the flat magic damage plus the % magic damage, making you a dual type threat in midgame.
If you really think Varus doesn't get enough damage from autos, go buy CDR boots and ignore about half his kit. You guessed it, here comes "You're better off picking Jayce for that" again.
On November 22 2013 23:14 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 19:44 Gahlo wrote:On November 22 2013 19:11 Tula wrote:On November 22 2013 11:15 Gahlo wrote:
BT>LW is fucking awful. It's the fastest way to make yourself useless in teamfights. You need a Zeal in there at least. If you want to do a strictly poke based build, pick Jayce. interesting, so a decent amount of pro adcs who build that way are all wrong but you are correct. How much time to auto attack do you have in early game teamfights? Caster based AD builds are common and very usefull if you use them correctly. You can't expect to play it based on autoattacks, but with the common Q max strategy you can definitely have an impact on early fights. If we're blindly following pros opinions, Doublelift agrees with me. The main proponent of the BT>LW build is Genja, who is renowned for doing oddball to straight fucking bad S3 builds. Genja is known for building tear on Varus yeah, but just because he follow like every single decent Varus player's build, doesn'´t mean he's less shit than doublelift. Seriously, you give Doublelift too much praising when him and Genja are like the opposite of each other. It's like comparing Reginald to Froggen or Diamondprox to TheOddOne, people excel at different things. Doubelift has always and will always be praised for his Vayne mechanics and being the sole carry for CLG, but his positioning is god awful, and he relies on his team to protect him in team fights. Genja excels at being a 3rd position AD Carry, and he does it fucking well. This is why his build is so damn weird (BT+Manamune Ashe is a good example here), he's not supposed to be carrying Gambit; they usually split themselves up in 2 groups, having Genja deal with the tanks while Diamondprox/Darien just dives into their front-line with Alex. It makes sense for Gambit Gaming, because they've had this method of team fighting strategy since forever and now that Edward is back in the game, i doubt they will develop something new method, because it works really well because of Genja's positioning being so superior considering he's a 3rd position carry.
Have fun making yourself 3rd position in your games when your team most likely expects you to be 1st or at least 2nd.
|
Genja who folded up like a cheap suit when he didn't have EDWard to carry him.
I think you extremly uinderestimate Genja. He is insane, a lot of people underestimate him. Personally I think he is better or at least as good as for example Rekkles. You dont get to challenger with only spamming ashe for no reason. Yes he is strange, and I dont agree with some things he is doing. Going Revive in competetive matches/in s1/2 on midlane kogmaw is questionable. Going Tear on Varus/Ashe is also not optimal in my opinion.
The BT/LW build on the other hand is great for a poke/kite orientated build, it has a different goal - you have great laning/poking later on. It is a different approach, and Doublelift also has some weird opinions, for example during s3 finals he said blue ezreal is better, which I think is completly wrong. People have different ideas about certain builds which is fine!
|
@Gahlo
Who the hell expects Varus to be a 1st position carry when shit like Caitlyn/Vayne/Twitch etc. exists? Varus does not excel in late-game, he's mid-game oriented much like ezreal used to be before the popular blue-build came around. Like why would you seriously pick Varus with the mind-set that he'll do most of the damage late-game? O_o Usually when i see him picked or i pick him, we have hyper carry stuff on our solo lanes or assassins.
I love the BT+LW path, as soon as you buy it, you can siege turrets like mad and threaten any tanky guy in this game.
|
On November 24 2013 01:24 Sponkz wrote:
@Gahlo
Who the hell expects Varus to be a 1st position carry when shit like Caitlyn/Vayne/Twitch etc. exists? Varus does not excel in late-game, he's mid-game oriented much like ezreal used to be before the popular blue-build came around. Like why would you seriously pick Varus with the mind-set that he'll do most of the damage late-game? O_o Usually when i see him picked or i pick him, we have hyper carry stuff on our solo lanes or assassins.
I love the BT+LW path, as soon as you buy it, you can siege turrets like mad and threaten any tanky guy in this game.
He's first position on your team. Rarely will you have Cait, Vayne, or Twitch on your team if Varus is your ADC. Riot will also be nerfing BT>LW shortly as they intend to make % penetration only hit bonus resists to combat the assassin craze of Season 3.
|
On November 24 2013 02:59 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2013 01:24 Sponkz wrote:
@Gahlo
Who the hell expects Varus to be a 1st position carry when shit like Caitlyn/Vayne/Twitch etc. exists? Varus does not excel in late-game, he's mid-game oriented much like ezreal used to be before the popular blue-build came around. Like why would you seriously pick Varus with the mind-set that he'll do most of the damage late-game? O_o Usually when i see him picked or i pick him, we have hyper carry stuff on our solo lanes or assassins.
I love the BT+LW path, as soon as you buy it, you can siege turrets like mad and threaten any tanky guy in this game. He's first position on your team. Rarely will you have Cait, Vayne, or Twitch on your team if Varus is your ADC. Riot will also be nerfing BT>LW shortly as they intend to make % penetration only hit bonus resists to combat the assassin craze of Season 3.
And we are back to forcing a round peg into a square hole. There is no god given law that you need a first position ADC. Many games end up with the ADC being 2nd position at best while the snowballing mid/top laner plays first position.
Obviously if your team needs a hypercarry you should pick a hypercarry, but frankly both in SoloQ and in organized play (be that 5v5 ranked or tournament play) you often do not need quite that for your team composition, instead you want to take advantadge of a strong midgame composition and ride that to victory. In such situations Varus shines. When he tries to build for the lategame hypercarry he does not shine quite as much.
Contrary to what you think Jayce is not a better poker than Varus, he is a hybrid char who has strong poke on a single combo, but aside from that he has almost nothing. Varus brings his E for an area slow and his Ult and all it can bring.
Still the point remains that Varus spikes hardest in the midgame. So if your teamcomp allows/needs that why exactly are you so against the best build to do so? (Leaving aside the problem that BT+LW spikes less hard than the Triforce Rush on Lucian/Ezreal/corki but that is another discussion altogether).
|
So the short answer is to "get pd or zeal" is that zeal is ok and shiv is ok (but suboptimal) but pd really isn't.
If you take a character which has no physical damage abilities and no ad scaling abilities then pd and LW, purchased after BT are about comparable with pd slightly ahead vs most targets.
With a BT first item pd increases your auto attack only damage by between 1.8 to 1.72(depending on level assuming 3% scaling). This is actually overstated because Varus gains bonus magic damage on his autos which is not multiplied by crit damage.
Against low armor targets LW does worse for auto attacks only. The breakpoint at which the extra auto attack damage will be better is around 160 armor. This seems like a lot but it's really not. It's also for auto attacks only. At 100 armor, a pretty reasonable point for most enemies to achieve in the mid game pd only has about a 20% auto attack dps advantage over LW so long as gaurs hasn't killed anything recently. This advantage is reduced significantly after a minion kill and nearly removed after a champion kill or assist
This low advantage is important because abilities do damage and this damage is effected by increased scaling and and penetration. In short, as soon as an ability goes off the PD has to start catching up. How long does it take to catch up? Given varus' scaling and base damage you need to make up about 95 damage normalized to the comparison dps on an uncharged q. Given that you have a 20% dps advantage and pd LW Varus does about 200 raw dps this takes 2 seconds of auto attacking. Doesn't sound like much but now calculate how many people you hit with your q and e. Calculate how many Qs you get off in a fight or siege. Each full charge q you get off which only hits one person puts the pd build in a 3 second auto attack deficit.
And the LW is cheaper. The pd/LW build is what makes Varus. It maximizes his two item teamfight (and tower push) damage. It lets him be a back line and damage the entire enemy team. It ensures that you have LW before tanks get tanky. There may be times when you need to do something else. But for varus due to the way his kit is designed those times are few and far between.
|
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
The average level 18 champion has 77 base armor. Since most people run armor seals, a typical glass cannon champ is going to have 90 armor at level 18 -- assuming no armor masteries or items.
|
Updated for Season 4. Still not sold on the builds, Varus got screwed with the item changes.
|
Don't think I ever played Varus as an auto attack ADC, maybe when he first came out and E max was the norm.
|
On June 30 2014 23:52 miicah wrote:
Don't think I ever played Varus as an auto attack ADC, maybe when he first came out and E max was the norm.
Yeah, but the proper way to play him got bent over and reemed so I don't see many ways to emulate it.
|
|
|
Yeah, I saw this earlier. I'll preface this by saying that I never like the "Legolas Build" in the first place.
The entire thing reeks of putting the cart before the horse. Literally the only reason it's being suggested is that has the lowest AD:g ratio. By the time you hit double BF, you're up against BT/Longsword or IE or BotRK/longsword. That's also assuming that you can keep up in gold during the transition to 2nd BF.
In the end, it's saying "Pay 3900 for a fully stacked BT + 10AD that has a really crappy buildup." I mean, I get that it's as close as you're gonna get until the BT that Riot has been playing Hokey-Pokey with on the PBE comes out... but this is like cutting off your nose to spite your face kind of thing.
|
|
|
I don't get the obsession with that build. It's dead when BT got nerfed. Unlike MF or Graves, Varus is actually really strong with IE. 575 autoattack range. Ult = extra time to attack and crit. You can pop blight with E afterwards and then auto some more. The legolas build was awesome but Varus can do just as well with alternate build and some adjusted playstyle.
|
On July 02 2014 14:03 Gahlo wrote:Yeah, I saw this earlier. I'll preface this by saying that I never like the "Legolas Build" in the first place. The entire thing reeks of putting the cart before the horse. Literally the only reason it's being suggested is that has the lowest AD:g ratio. By the time you hit double BF, you're up against BT/Longsword or IE or BotRK/longsword. That's also assuming that you can keep up in gold during the transition to 2nd BF. In the end, it's saying "Pay 3900 for a fully stacked BT + 10AD that has a really crappy buildup." I mean, I get that it's as close as you're gonna get until the BT that Riot has been playing Hokey-Pokey with on the PBE comes out... but this is like cutting off your nose to spite your face kind of thing.
2 bf is less than 1 botrk, so the issue is ONLY being lane well enough to get 1 bf, then 1 bf, as the "backing costs" of both build paths are nearly identical, only 2 bf makes his skills 4x as strong
With that said I've only ever built varus as attack speed, it's much stronger for dueling, him as a "caster" feels too clunky for me, and his damage output going attack speed has always been much higher than caster varus.
|
On July 04 2014 01:10 GreggSauce wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2014 14:03 Gahlo wrote:Yeah, I saw this earlier. I'll preface this by saying that I never like the "Legolas Build" in the first place. The entire thing reeks of putting the cart before the horse. Literally the only reason it's being suggested is that has the lowest AD:g ratio. By the time you hit double BF, you're up against BT/Longsword or IE or BotRK/longsword. That's also assuming that you can keep up in gold during the transition to 2nd BF. In the end, it's saying "Pay 3900 for a fully stacked BT + 10AD that has a really crappy buildup." I mean, I get that it's as close as you're gonna get until the BT that Riot has been playing Hokey-Pokey with on the PBE comes out... but this is like cutting off your nose to spite your face kind of thing. 2 bf is less than 1 botrk, so the issue is ONLY being lane well enough to get 1 bf, then 1 bf, as the "backing costs" of both build paths are nearly identical, only 2 bf makes his skills 4x as strong With that said I've only ever built varus as attack speed, it's much stronger for dueling, him as a "caster" feels too clunky for me, and his damage output going attack speed has always been much higher than caster varus.
I was assuming Vamp first.
The buildpaths aren't anywhere near identical. The BF build is very strict and very steep. Botrk 6 distinct steps, all at pretty low costs, and 1 moderately sized one.
|
Been playing around a bit with IE/BT/Runaans/Botrk/LW build and it seems solid. The runaans helps you get his w passive on 3 targets instead of 1 so you don't have to prioritize the entire time, so you can potentially chunk 3 people VERY hard if they're clumped up in a tf. Botkr nerf/buff (depends on how you see it) kind of work well with this aswell, it also help getting your shield up faster in a TF (if lifesteal is also enhanced with runaan's?)
So in the end I guess what I'm saying is: this seems like a very solid tf build, but also BT/Runaans/Botrk seems like a very good trifecta of items for certain champs, especially if the PBE changes for BT (5% extra lifesteal) go through.
Edit: been toying with the idea of replacing IE with a second BT for even MOAR lifesteal. Also, does the shield stack?
|
On July 07 2014 04:05 Uldridge wrote:
Been playing around a bit with IE/BT/Runaans/Botrk/LW build and it seems solid. The runaans helps you get his w passive on 3 targets instead of 1 so you don't have to prioritize the entire time, so you can potentially chunk 3 people VERY hard if they're clumped up in a tf. Botkr nerf/buff (depends on how you see it) kind of work well with this aswell, it also help getting your shield up faster in a TF (if lifesteal is also enhanced with runaan's?)
So in the end I guess what I'm saying is: this seems like a very solid tf build, but also BT/Runaans/Botrk seems like a very good trifecta of items for certain champs, especially if the PBE changes for BT (5% extra lifesteal) go through.
Edit: been toying with the idea of replacing IE with a second BT for even MOAR lifesteal. Also, does the shield stack?
Unique: Your life steal overheals you, converting the excess healing into a shield that absorbs up to 50-450 damage and decays when out of combat for 15 seconds.
|
On July 07 2014 06:42 arb wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 07 2014 04:05 Uldridge wrote:
Been playing around a bit with IE/BT/Runaans/Botrk/LW build and it seems solid. The runaans helps you get his w passive on 3 targets instead of 1 so you don't have to prioritize the entire time, so you can potentially chunk 3 people VERY hard if they're clumped up in a tf. Botkr nerf/buff (depends on how you see it) kind of work well with this aswell, it also help getting your shield up faster in a TF (if lifesteal is also enhanced with runaan's?)
So in the end I guess what I'm saying is: this seems like a very solid tf build, but also BT/Runaans/Botrk seems like a very good trifecta of items for certain champs, especially if the PBE changes for BT (5% extra lifesteal) go through.
Edit: been toying with the idea of replacing IE with a second BT for even MOAR lifesteal. Also, does the shield stack? Unique: Your life steal overheals you, converting the excess healing into a shield that absorbs up to 50-450 damage and decays when out of combat for 15 seconds.
Too bad, hoped for some stacking to happen. But I guess IE still works..
|
Blade and ruunans (plus boots) seems overkill on attack speed no?
|
On July 07 2014 11:04 miicah wrote:
Blade and ruunans (plus boots) seems overkill on attack speed no?
I'll get back to you on that, did glance over it in the games played but haven't really remembered it. I think it was something around 1.9 without passive going up to 2.3 or 2.4 with kills/assists. So I guess it's pushing it, but definitely not overkilling it.
Edit; so I've finally checked the numbers during a game (I keep forgetting to check my AS for some reason hah) and it is 1.91 attack speed at lvl 18, you go to 2.29 (let's round that to 2.3) after a minion kill and 2.674, so 2,5 after a kill/assist.
So it may seem a bit like overkill, but I think the Botrk passive + the blighted quiver passive stacked on 3 persons, and then chunking 15% hp off them with either an ult, q or e, definitely catches people off guard.
This is a teamfight oriented build btw, focussing on maxing w first.
|
I don't feel the desire to continue curating this thread into this season. Feel free to continue discussion here if you want, and if somebody wants to start a new thread they are more than welcome as long as they request a mod close this one upon posting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://snag.gy/iBiJa.jpg)
