EPT[TL R&D] T.R.O.L.L.S. - Page 62
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14122 Posts
On July 29 2013 23:20 mordek wrote: Should try Draven jungle imo. I'm terrible with champ and did decent in the jungle with him in a normals. This was like the second time I played him. His stand aside makes for decent gank assistance and you catch axes for free in the jungle. Someone here went on about it awhile ago... might have been sermokola. yeah it was me. Hes got insane gank potential and he can farm really fast once you gain enough skill to carry an axe between camps. the problem is that hes incredibly weak level 1 and needs hardcore support to get his first buff or hes screwed. level 2 firstblood is almost garenteed with a decent setup in lane and throwing an axe and attacking them before they react and only after they start moving you throw your w to get the stun time and slow. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
Build Ideas: Major items for a tanky initiator annie seem to be ROA (need a bigger HP pool, this is pretty much where to get it for an AP) SOTSW (if lane turns into a sustain war) Abyssal (teamfite item, decent selfishly too.) Zhonya Guise/Rylai/Liandry im not sure on. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
Wolves
The additional health changes make donating the buff slightly easier (and make it harder to accidentally take the Young Lizards). While that may not be earth shattering, the experience changes are huge. As a result of the experience changes a jungler using the buff donation strategy gains 80 additional experience from the Young Lizards left behind at Red. This, combined with the additional experience on the Giant Wolf and Big Golem, dramatically changes the jungler's level timings. The donating jungler (following a basic Blue -> Clear path) now levels at the following points:
For comparison, a standard jungler (Blue -> Red -> Clear):
*Level 5/6 timings are approximate. Even if your presence is not needed in a lane, you will generally go back to base after your second or third pass. When you back, what you buy, and how quickly you get back into the jungle can dramatically change these numbers. The recorded numbers are for a back after the third pass, purchasing Spirit Stone and Boots. Obviously these timings will vary greatly from jungler to jungler, and depend (particularly for the standard route) on the amount of help given by allies. + Show Spoiler [Ramifications and Math] + Normally junglers avoid the Golems after securing both buffs and clear Wraiths and Wolves as they are easier, less trying, and this will potentially allow Smite to the used on the Golems. That's partly why you'll see even mana dependent junglers start Red, as it sets up the clear smoothly. To mimic this my path was Blue -> Red -> Golems -> Clear. Junglers who must start Blue take an appreciable time hit (10-15 seconds) for skipping Golems after Red. The donating jungler no longer has an extremely awkward level 5 timing. In fact, it is now the standard jungler who does (although, as was the case with the donating jungler before, any experience gained outside of the jungle will immediately level them to 5 around the 4:40 mark). Otherwise the donating jungler is only seconds behind the standard jungler in all cases. The math behind this is pretty simple. Due to the changes this patch the donating jungler is only losing 260 experience (down from 340) by donating the buff. The experience value of the Wolves and Wraiths camps, which the donating jungler will clear while the standard jungler travels to and clears Red, is now 315 (up from 298). As a result the donating jungler is almost perfectly on par with the standard jungler, whereas before they always had a notable experience deficit. In short, there's basically no meaningful level difference between the two jungle strategies anymore. The differences are slight, and will quickly get eaten up by ganking, counter-ganking, and other asymmetrical factors. The only negative difference is essentially on the laning side. The experience difference there shrinks, although the buffed laner will level the moment anything dies in their vicinity. It weakens the potential for run away lanes slightly, but knowing that barring mistakes you'll hit major level milestone first is huge for any solo lane. I believe the buff donation strategy is stronger for the changes, and definitely think it should remain a staple of our testing up until it hits the mainstream. | ||
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
On August 01 2013 03:28 Seuss wrote: I believe the buff donation strategy is stronger for the changes, and definitely think it should remain a staple of our testing up until it hits the mainstream. I like your style  This really is so cool. I'm guessing it's too risky against an organized opponent to invade the enemy buff they're not taking with jungler+1 and let the other group take your red? | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On August 01 2013 03:40 mordek wrote: I like your style This really is so cool. I'm guessing it's too risky against an organized opponent to invade the enemy buff they're not taking with jungler+1 and let the other group take your red?That sort of thing is a matter of ward coverage, team composition, and knowledge. In higher level play there's a lot of posturing and/or warding enemy buffs for information, and it's somewhat important that you don't lose that information skirmish for invasion antics. You can try it against unsuspecting foes, but otherwise it's not an option you take blindly. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Lets try it on Friday k | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
He also brought up the danger of losing the big Wraith/Golem to an invading Nunu who knew what was going on. sylverfyre and I decided to run some tests to determine how much of an issue this would be. For the sake of simplicity we avoided any altercation at Golems under the assumption that with a scary mid laner sporting an extra level and Red buff, Nunu would either not hang around or be forced to flash over the Dragon/Baron wall to get to safety. The results were pretty mundane. Nunu successfully took the Wraith, but was only 5 or so seconds ahead to level 4 (and was actually a little bit behind to level 3). It might be possible for Nunu to also contest the big Golem, but only if the team opposing him lacked the ward coverage to do so. This also hinges on the opposing jungler stopping to clear Wolves. If the opposing jungler rushes Wraiths, Nunu will not get there in time to steal, and his presence will be known if he attempts to contest golems (which, again, is pretty dangerous when the opposing mid lane is ahead). It's not a clear win for the tactic, but Nunu has to be extremely tight with his timings, similar to how any invasion must also be extremely tight with its timings. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
If he can get the big wraith and the big golem that's maybe something else, but I'm not sure that's possible if your laners are on point. I'd be more scared of him consuming the big wraith and then swinging around and getting the small lizards to grab the timer on red more accurately than you have it and prevent your level 3. It's going to depend on the jungler lineups, I imagine somebody with real fast AoE clear would get to red at about the same time Nunu would. I really liked having Coptic there, he's clearly a better player than most of us and had some good insights, hope he comes again. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
Malphite goes 0/9/21, opens Mana Manipulator 2 wards 2 pots (or 3 wards if confident). Skills Q>E>W Viktor opens Dring into Gravity Augment, skills EWEQ, E>Q>W Malphite builds Philo, Mobos, Sightstone and runs around ganking everything. Spam oracles and kill something every time ult is up. Spare cash goes towards Abyssal/Glacial/Locket as appropriate for the game. Viktor priorities are CDR and Rylai's. Laning is basically a poke war. At level 1/2 mal/viktor are weak, but mana manipulator allows for a surprising amount of spam. Poke constantly. Malphite shield will absorb an autoattack or two, so trades are pretty favorable when it's up. At 6 just go kill them, or if that's not possible, let viktor 1v2 and go roam. Team considerations: someone mid or top who can pick up wota, someone else who can get early locket, some consistent source of late game dps. Malphite can take over jungle pressure to a certain degree once he has mobos and sightstone, but it's often better just to stay in lane and shut down the carry. I can't really think of any good substitutes in case one of the two gets picked/banned. Maybe Xerath for Viktor? | ||
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Sermokala
United States14122 Posts
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
well, we've been using grav augment, but laser might be worth it in a Leona combo also, i was thinking about shaco and boxes, and I think with serious lane help and coordination shaco could pull a super cheesy speedjungle. The plan would be to leave 3 boxes at blue and run to red before it spawns. On purple side, bot goes to blue buff, while on blue side top and mid go. They essentially super-leash for shaco,weakening the buff enough that the boxes finish it. Meanwhile, the other two laners help shaco do a smiteless red. Shaco could probably even get away with a boots start for this. The drawback to this plan, of course, is that it could easily go wrong, and even if it works you're still playing Shaco. | ||
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Complete
United States1864 Posts
On August 05 2013 02:05 Sermokala wrote: leona for malph? That lazer augment burn will trigger every application of leonas passive and can combo incrdible well into the grav field allowing for them to just burn all their shit and walk away. From what I understand DoT's doesn't work with leona's passive? | ||
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SagaZ
France3460 Posts
On August 05 2013 04:37 Tooplark wrote: ooh yess well, we've been using grav augment, but laser might be worth it in a Leona combo also, i was thinking about shaco and boxes, and I think with serious lane help and coordination shaco could pull a super cheesy speedjungle. The plan would be to leave 3 boxes at blue and run to red before it spawns. On purple side, bot goes to blue buff, while on blue side top and mid go. They essentially super-leash for shaco,weakening the buff enough that the boxes finish it. Meanwhile, the other two laners help shaco do a smiteless red. Shaco could probably even get away with a boots start for this. The drawback to this plan, of course, is that it could easily go wrong, and even if it works you're still playing Shaco. I came across that occasionally in soloqueue but not alot lately because while.killing the buff is easy, usually the leashers have to kill.the remaining small monsters, and with new patch alot of the exp went into those. If you re ok losing that exp, this tottaly works and doesnt require alot of coordination except that the guys that leash have.to understand what you re doing. Boxes do so much damage it s ez for them to get the last hit | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On August 05 2013 05:29 Complete wrote: From what I understand DoT's doesn't work with leona's passive? Where did you see that? Never heard of it. | ||
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necrosed
Brazil885 Posts
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