EPTYou can do a build like Shard of True Ice + WotA + Banner of Command, but you get like 200 AP max and those aren't the most fantastic support items.
[TL R&D] T.R.O.L.L.S. - Page 24
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
You can do a build like Shard of True Ice + WotA + Banner of Command, but you get like 200 AP max and those aren't the most fantastic support items. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
The first problem is that her shield is weak against short bursts of harass. It has to reach your carry in time to shield the damage, and unless there are multiple sources that hit before and after you only get half the effective shielding. It's great for extended trades and skirmishes, but not the odd auto-attack or ability that gets thrown around. The second is that her Q is strictly inferior to Zyra's E, while leaving Lux almost as defenseless when it's down. Q might have slightly longer range, but its higher cooldown, target limitation, and reduced duration on the secondary target weaken its potency considerably. Finally, Zyra's ultimate is simply better for laning. In addition to buffing up her plants, it creates a giant death zone for your opponents and a safe area for your carry. The usefulness of Lux ultimate is predicated on being able to bully people out of the lane, which is not guaranteed. This doesn't make Lux useless, her E harass is almost undodgeable and hurts even more if she can follow it up with an auto, but you have to be very mindful of the matchup for it to work. In bad matchups it's possible for her E harass to become irrelevant, at which point she loses all presence. In the end she doesn't really need AP to instaclear waves lategame, just CDR so that her rank 3 ultimate's cooldown drops below 30 seconds. If your team lacks waveclear, Lux is a good way to make that up. You just have to deal with her tenuous laning phase and pick a safe carry. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
As a result, teams without wave clear potential suffer in siege situations unless they have some other advantage. It comes back to the fundamental team composition theory question, "How do we siege and defend turrets?" Lacking wave clear, you need some other means to apply or relieve pressure on a turret. There are a fair number of options there, but you do need at least one of them to have a consistent strategy. This is why I refer to Lux support as being a niche pick. The question isn't whether Lux provides wave clear, the base damage on Lux E and R is sufficient to wipe out entire creep waves until very late, but when you would need that from support. It only makes sense if the wave clear on your other picks is weak, falls off, or isn't reliable/repeatable. It's fairly obvious that the circumstances where this is important are not common, and are compounded by the considerations you must keep in mind regarding Lux's laning phase. | ||
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Djagulingu
Germany3605 Posts
On February 04 2013 13:18 sob3k wrote: Unfortunately cho is melee range so if you build that you are going to blow up instantly. Yep, I blew up instantly. I mean, WTF. Despite being somewhat tanky thanks to the rylai/zhonyas/abyssal, I just fucking blow up. I don't understand. | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On February 04 2013 19:25 Djagulingu wrote: Yep, I blew up instantly. I mean, WTF. Despite being somewhat tanky thanks to the rylai/zhonyas/abyssal, I just fucking blow up. I don't understand. There is a disturbing lack of Warmogs in your build. Also, RoA seems like it would be a given as well. | ||
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necrosed
Brazil885 Posts
Im the new player coach for paiN gaming. Ill make use of somewhat successful ideas from here to see how they fare at the top level. Currently we will test some lane swaps and trilaning compositions. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14196 Posts
On February 05 2013 02:52 necrosed wrote: Ok, ive got some interesting news for T.R.O.L.L.S: Im the new player coach for paiN gaming. Ill make use of somewhat successful ideas from here to see how they fare at the top level. Currently we will test some lane swaps and trilaning compositions. hahaha we'll we're pretty sure that yango is secretly some korean pro gamer anyway. If you're gona test troll theory out you should tell them to do some light stuff like nasus support draven jungleing and ap duo botlane. I played a game out with someone seemingly troll picking renek bot instead of a ranged adc and panicking I picked hecarim. I think we should look at a heavy initiation jungler to help out our seigeing problem with ap duo comps to maybe go with a partial dive comp and a heavy fisted ap carry to follow up in teamfights. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On February 05 2013 02:52 necrosed wrote: Ok, ive got some interesting news for T.R.O.L.L.S: Im the new player coach for paiN gaming. Ill make use of somewhat successful ideas from here to see how they fare at the top level. Currently we will test some lane swaps and trilaning compositions. I don't know about the tri-laning, we didn't have much success with that. Our best tests so far were the Ryze/Cass + support lanes with the optional lane swap. Super-hook teams were also fairly scary. In other news, if Nasus' Q still crits this Friday I'm making it a priority to demonstrate how stupid Nasus can be. We'll first pick him and swap him into the jungle if he gets countered. | ||
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Duvon
Sweden2360 Posts
Sustain team, you really need targettable damage reduction or tanks with excellent regeneration, or someone will get picked off sooner or later. Meanwhile, also needing (preferably ranged) tower siege. AP Ezrael in my mind falls on that last part too, there are a lot of good AP heroes, but only a few ranged tower killers. (Though I agree, it's really cool with AP Ez) | ||
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necrosed
Brazil885 Posts
On February 05 2013 03:09 Seuss wrote: I don't know about the tri-laning, we didn't have much success with that. Our best tests so far were the Ryze/Cass + support lanes with the optional lane swap. Super-hook teams were also fairly scary. In other news, if Nasus' Q still crits this Friday I'm making it a priority to demonstrate how stupid Nasus can be. We'll first pick him and swap him into the jungle if he gets countered. GSG vs CJ Entus was kinda of a tri-lane at some point, wasn't it? | ||
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nosliw
United States2716 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On February 05 2013 06:06 Duvon wrote: Thoughts on a couple of thoughts of the last pages: Sustain team, you really need targettable damage reduction or tanks with excellent regeneration, or someone will get picked off sooner or later. Meanwhile, also needing (preferably ranged) tower siege. AP Ezrael in my mind falls on that last part too, there are a lot of good AP heroes, but only a few ranged tower killers. (Though I agree, it's really cool with AP Ez) You mean not unlike Dig's Lulu/Soraka/Mundo/Kog/Janna or Taric? It wouldn't work as well since shields work better with resists, same with heals and Lulu's ult, and s3 came round the corner. It was really hilarious though. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
(a) A hypercarry + 2 supports to make sure they reach 6 items asap on Vayne/Ryze/Cass/Kog and just win? (b) 2 supports that "default " to a lane but roam and go for ganks? (c) Strong carry + 2 hyper aggressive supports that focus on completely shitting on the enemy laner to the point that they're not even useful? All have their strengths, all have downsides. However, every single one suffers from the issue of not having a jungler to get the gold from the jungle, control buffs/dragon, or exert pressure on the map. Besides, what happens when the enemy jungle camps the trilane to make it a 3v3 lane? Now both teams are even, except they have someone with Smite who can wander off and clear camps when the lane is pushed or someone goes back. You best hope you have a solo laner who can win his hard or at least even, but the 1v2 laner will be full of problems. 1v2 lanes are generally in place to let the AD support go and 2v1 to get an early tower/feed the AD super hard. But, it sacrifices the 1v2 laner's farm/levels by knowing they'll be zoned for quite some time. So unless the trilane really smashes everything, now you have a solo laner (who is pretty much in his usual 1v1 lane place), a 1v2 laner who is probably pretty screwed over, and 2 supporters who are about as useful as a support in a normal game. I mean, I'm sure there are ways around this. Maybe have your two solo laners be champs with super strong AoE clearing potential, so they can push their lanes hard and go farm your jungle in the meantime (like lane Skarner/Amumu/Hec). Maybe at one of your trilane supports is Shen or TF who can still exert map presence by ulting to sidelanes past 6. Maybe you say "screw little camps", and have one of your supports/solo laners be a Nunu or the like who can go clear buffs on cooldown even without smite, and then spend the rest of the time in lane. Just musing. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On February 05 2013 06:50 nosliw wrote: 4 mid + 1 teleport to defend top/bot lane Yeah, it's an entirely different concept from a trilane. The point of the GSG vs CJ Entus composition was to push mid, push hard, and snowball that advantage while having the ability to defend outlying turrets. I also think it's the logical result of trying to shoehorn trilanes into LoL. Eventually you figure out that there isn't a combination of three champions which guarantees you utterly crush the enemy duo, and thus you need some sort of pressure to force the enemy team into losing as much/more than you are. That ends up being the hard push comp, because anything less isn't effective at drawing the enemy team out of their laning/jungling. | ||
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Duvon
Sweden2360 Posts
Or having a jungle-viable mid (are there any?). | ||
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Antyee
Hungary1011 Posts
On February 05 2013 03:09 Seuss wrote: I don't know about the tri-laning, we didn't have much success with that. Our best tests so far were the Ryze/Cass + support lanes with the optional lane swap. Super-hook teams were also fairly scary. In other news, if Nasus' Q still crits this Friday I'm making it a priority to demonstrate how stupid Nasus can be. We'll first pick him and swap him into the jungle if he gets countered. I might be a bit late for this, but wasn't Cass-Soraka a legit, probably even tourney-seen comp at bot lane? Somewhere around Kings of Europe and not-so-long-after-release fotm Graves. Or probably it was just theorycrafting and got scrapped after the Varus- and Jayce-patch nerfs. Whichever might be the case, I will give it a try, 'cause I have always liked Cass and haven't got to play her in a while. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
I ended up going AD marks/quints, armor seals, scaling magic resist glyphs, 19/11/0 masteries (getting both penetrations and the AD masteries). Items were machete/5 pots, spirit stone, philostone, tear, Rylai's, Deathcap, Spirit of the Spectral Wraith, Archangels. Probably could skip the philostone and just get a tear. The other nice thing about this is, between blue buff and Spirit of the Spectral Wraith you can get 36% cdr. Even with non-jungle Malz, spirit of the spectral Wraith might be worth getting, because Malz with a lot of CDR is really good. Won't have to wait for blue elixirs this way. Only potential problem I see, if they steal your first or second blue, it would be difficult. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
I've tried it on a whim, wasn't very conclusive (picked 2rd, but in the end we had no initiation apart from Taric or me), though it showed me that taking a quick level 2 in Q over W or another point in E is pretty bad. Also got invaded at blue, his first clear is really brutal without the CDR for Q and E (and even later). I'm going to try it more if I can this week. | ||
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