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On June 08 2012 00:35 Requizen wrote:
I played Olaf vs him (and asked a bit in the Olaf thread), is there a way for Olaf to win that lane? His burst damage output demolishes Olaf's, which led me to an early couple deaths (one that was my fault, another was a Rammus dive that couldn't be helped), and left me with throwing Q and trying to last hit while not dying and stacking health and armor to no avail.
Is this just a tough matchup for Olaf/easy matchup for Darius?
haven't had to play this matchup yet, but Olaf's a melee ranged champion and I haven't had even the slightest bit of trouble outtrading a melee champ yet on Darius, so I imagine Darius should win pretty handily.
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I've had a lot of success with Kennen vs Darius. Just been starting out AD (boots->2xDblades->Sorcshoes->normal Ap crap, WEQWW, R>W>Q>E) and zoning.
Its pretty safe, and if you can bait out a Q or two in minions early you can hold him without CS for a long time while keeping him relatively extended. Dude still has like the most kill potential in the game though... (although I have a knack for getting killed by people I am beating in lane. I dunno, it just thing I guess.)
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Kennen hasn't proven too problematic for me as Darius. He's as annoying as any ranged champ, but i feel like every pull vs. him is an easy auto W auto Q and if he stays on lane after that, the next pull is the same but ending in an R and he just dies. Having his escape as a haste rather than a blink really hurts him against the slow from W IMO.
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Yeah, I could see that. Darius wrecks Kennen in a flat out engage.
I do think though that the only time you'd really be in range to get hooked is if you just auto'd darius, and once he six I dont think its wise to poke him without your W enhanced auto (giving you 1 mark), in which case should be pretty easy to press W land a Q and disengage while he stunned without eating that full combo.
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The only people I can see winning hard against Darius are those that can abuse his lack of mobility (Teemo, Swain, maybe Vlad), those that can tank his damage long enough to escape/gank (can't honestly think of anyone off the top of my head, maybe Udyr?), or those that who have enough sustain or burst to out-damage him in fights (the only one I can think of is maybe Renek or in certain cases, Riven).
I'm not going to jump on the OP bandwagon, but you have to admit his early/mid/laning phase is insane compared to a majority of the champions. Admittedly, later on he's relegated to more or less being an Ult bot, but he does it pretty well, all things considered.
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On June 08 2012 01:27 Requizen wrote:
The only people I can see winning hard against Darius are those that can abuse his lack of mobility (Teemo, Swain, maybe Vlad), those that can tank his damage long enough to escape/gank (can't honestly think of anyone off the top of my head, maybe Udyr?), or those that who have enough sustain or burst to out-damage him in fights (the only one I can think of is maybe Renek or in certain cases, Riven).
I'm not going to jump on the OP bandwagon, but you have to admit his early/mid/laning phase is insane compared to a majority of the champions. Admittedly, later on he's relegated to more or less being an Ult bot, but he does it pretty well, all things considered.
haven't had to play vs. Swain. I'm not too concerned about the matchup. Swain's mobility is a joke, so I'm pretty sure I'll just hit an E and kill him. everyone likes to talk about swain being strong top, but he's so so weak early on and totally exposed to ganks at all points. I don't lose any sleep thinking about the matchup.
Vlad has gotten dunked every time I've played it. His damage it too low unless he commits and if he commits, darius outdamages him hard.
the biggest thing about teemo is that his blind basically cuts a standard Darius rotation's damage in half past level 5. If you're smart about blinding when you predict a Darius E, you outtrade and then can follow up with kite bullying while he waits for his E CD again.
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So who would you recommend the most to counter him, teemo?
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how is the lulu vs darius matchup? shield+glitterlance should allow her to get some harass off without ever getting into hook range and shield-polymorph-slow should mitigate a ton of damage if forced to trade. then there's also the hp from her ult being one of the few defensive measures that are actually useful against a true damage nuke.
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On June 08 2012 01:43 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2012 01:27 Requizen wrote:
The only people I can see winning hard against Darius are those that can abuse his lack of mobility (Teemo, Swain, maybe Vlad), those that can tank his damage long enough to escape/gank (can't honestly think of anyone off the top of my head, maybe Udyr?), or those that who have enough sustain or burst to out-damage him in fights (the only one I can think of is maybe Renek or in certain cases, Riven).
I'm not going to jump on the OP bandwagon, but you have to admit his early/mid/laning phase is insane compared to a majority of the champions. Admittedly, later on he's relegated to more or less being an Ult bot, but he does it pretty well, all things considered. haven't had to play vs. Swain. I'm not too concerned about the matchup. Swain's mobility is a joke, so I'm pretty sure I'll just hit an E and kill him. everyone likes to talk about swain being strong top, but he's so so weak early on and totally exposed to ganks at all points. I don't lose any sleep thinking about the matchup. Vlad has gotten dunked every time I've played it. His damage it too low unless he commits and if he commits, darius outdamages him hard. the biggest thing about teemo is that his blind basically cuts a standard Darius rotation's damage in half past level 5. If you're smart about blinding when you predict a Darius E, you outtrade and then can follow up with kite bullying while he waits for his E CD again.
I actually don't play Darius a whole lot (Swain and Vlad never), so I was just spitballing really. I'll trust your experience over my ideas. I really picked Swain because of his range increases and his slow buff in this last patch, plus the fact that he craps on a lot of other strong melee tops, especially post-6. But I agree he'd never be able to stand to Darius in a straight fight.
@Outlaw: I'd agree with that. Teemo does great against him like he does against every other bruiser top. If you're smart with blind, you really only have to deal with his Q and Ult, which should be no problem.
Renek did really well against him from what I saw, since he has no mana to worry about and can Slice in, hit, stun, Dice out, and then heal back on minions and what not, while his Ult makes engaging against him scary. Though, I was only watching it while jungling, so I couldn't speak to the skills of either Darius or Renek any time I saw it.
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On June 08 2012 01:45 OutlaW- wrote:
So who would you recommend the most to counter him, teemo?
yes, Teemo.
On June 08 2012 01:56 chalice wrote:
how is the lulu vs darius matchup? shield+glitterlance should allow her to get some harass off without ever getting into hook range and shield-polymorph-slow should mitigate a ton of damage if forced to trade. then there's also the hp from her ult being one of the few defensive measures that are actually useful against a true damage nuke.
I dunked the one lulu I played against. Lulu feels so much weaker than Teemo top, I dunno, I just think the character's mediocre in solo lanes.
On June 08 2012 02:03 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2012 01:43 Mogwai wrote:On June 08 2012 01:27 Requizen wrote:
The only people I can see winning hard against Darius are those that can abuse his lack of mobility (Teemo, Swain, maybe Vlad), those that can tank his damage long enough to escape/gank (can't honestly think of anyone off the top of my head, maybe Udyr?), or those that who have enough sustain or burst to out-damage him in fights (the only one I can think of is maybe Renek or in certain cases, Riven).
I'm not going to jump on the OP bandwagon, but you have to admit his early/mid/laning phase is insane compared to a majority of the champions. Admittedly, later on he's relegated to more or less being an Ult bot, but he does it pretty well, all things considered. haven't had to play vs. Swain. I'm not too concerned about the matchup. Swain's mobility is a joke, so I'm pretty sure I'll just hit an E and kill him. everyone likes to talk about swain being strong top, but he's so so weak early on and totally exposed to ganks at all points. I don't lose any sleep thinking about the matchup. Vlad has gotten dunked every time I've played it. His damage it too low unless he commits and if he commits, darius outdamages him hard. the biggest thing about teemo is that his blind basically cuts a standard Darius rotation's damage in half past level 5. If you're smart about blinding when you predict a Darius E, you outtrade and then can follow up with kite bullying while he waits for his E CD again. I actually don't play Darius a whole lot (Swain and Vlad never), so I was just spitballing really. I'll trust your experience over my ideas. I really picked Swain because of his range increases and his slow buff in this last patch, plus the fact that he craps on a lot of other strong melee tops, especially post-6. But I agree he'd never be able to stand to Darius in a straight fight. @Outlaw: I'd agree with that. Teemo does great against him like he does against every other bruiser top. If you're smart with blind, you really only have to deal with his Q and Ult, which should be no problem. Renek did really well against him from what I saw, since he has no mana to worry about and can Slice in, hit, stun, Dice out, and then heal back on minions and what not, while his Ult makes engaging against him scary. Though, I was only watching it while jungling, so I couldn't speak to the skills of either Darius or Renek any time I saw it.
I think I had to play Darius vs. Renek once and that I won fairly handily. Renek takes too long to ramp up in lane and while his 6 is scary, it's not so scary that Darius cannot dunk on it.
I dunno guys, I can't really figured out if I'm biased on this champ or not. I'm 22-8 with him and since his release I jumped from ~2K to 224X. He just feels really damn strong and like I crush every lane with him.
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I think I had to play Darius vs. Renek once and that I won fairly handily. Renek takes too long to ramp up in lane and while his 6 is scary, it's not so scary that Darius cannot dunk on it.
I dunno guys, I can't really figured out if I'm biased on this champ or not. I'm 22-8 with him and since his release I jumped from ~2K to 224X. He just feels really damn strong and like I crush every lane with him.
It's worth noting that you're primarily an aggressive solotop player (Wukong, J4, Panth) so Darius fits right it with your playstyle explaining why you do so well with him.
MLG this weekend is played on the Darius patch so if he's as strong as people say, maybe the pros will pick up on it?
Or maybe he is just a solo Q pubstomper and not worth picking up in arranged team...?
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I dunno what to expect. None of the pro top laners are running much Darius and I doubt he clicks with any of them well enough to justify the pick. The only one I see with decent numbers is Wickd, and I fully expect him to continue just picking champs he can run straight FH + Omen on.
He is a lot weaker in an organized setting too IMO.
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I haven't lost a lane to a darius since he came out, except once, when i had to deal with a Jungler that thought darius on his team means camp top for free kills. we won that game because our mid and bot snowballed but i had to sit under tower half the match because the jungler Hotshotgg'd the top river bush. but that was pretty much a 1v2 lane, and not a me vs darius.
I've beaten darius with irelia, wu, lee sin, yorick and especially Renekton. Every time i picked renekton it was a horrible horrible game for that darius. So i guess i'm biased in the opposite way mogwai, I think he's trash.
Also something to keep in mind, is every character with command dashes, can dash out of the pull, Rene, Shen, gragas ect. you just start it when darius begins his pull, and you just dash through it ignoring him completely.
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I beat a Darius as Swain, but I was clearly better than him on a non-mechanical standpoint (I warded and he didn't, granted two kills on WW ganks). It showed at least a thing tho: I already knew that Swain's E's animation is pretty damn long, well it's enough for him to pull me. He lost the trades as I ran away immediatly while him staying in place meant a full QEW in his face, but I didn't check his runes so maybe he should have won them (he started dshield and bought boots+4 pots at his first back).
I could only Q him and walk away unharmed, but that didn't do a lot of damage. Also, he tried to play aggressively from the start so I just let him push then froze the lane near my tower (GP never lane ganked to abuse that and after our first backs I made sure to freeze far enough to check my bush's entrance). So against a good Darius I don't know if he'd straight up beat me, but Swain shouldn't be able to E him unhindered.
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dshield OP vs. Swain, lol.
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So you're telling me you wouldn't start Dshield against swain?
Why not... I dont get it.
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On June 08 2012 05:15 iCanada wrote:
So you're telling me you wouldn't start Dshield against swain?
Why not... I dont get it.
not sure if srs...
I'll assume you are... because you need boots to dodge his snare/get out of laser bird ASAP/get close enough to E him. And after that, you want dblades to kill him, not dshields.
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laned vs darius as irelia in ranked, could trade with him fairly well but if you ever commit, the true damage ult kills you before you can get him down to 1/4 hp. Had to rush a giant's belt but overall the lane wasn't that bad.
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On June 08 2012 05:22 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2012 05:15 iCanada wrote:
So you're telling me you wouldn't start Dshield against swain?
Why not... I dont get it. not sure if srs... I'll assume you are... because you need boots to dodge his snare/get out of laser bird ASAP/get close enough to E him. And after that, you want dblades to kill him, not dshields.
I'm sorry Smash, I'm a smart ass.
-.-
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I'm finding more and more that Darius craps all over his lane, but just isn't good by mid and lategame compared to any other bruiser in the game. Is there something wrong with my playstyle? I've been opening standard boots/whatever 2 dblades into phage, BT, tanky items, and it just seems that he doesn't have the scaling to work out. As is, have not lost my lane except to Nid who picked up 3 kills when a countergank happened at level 6 (and I was probably playing the lane wrong). I just find Darius easy to kite/stay away from as the AP or AD, and you aren't exactly the most amazing at dunking bruisers quickly, but that's what it seems I end up doing because I can't reach the AP the way you can with say J4, Renekton, Pantheon, or similar.
My Darius match history:
9-0-0 win (laned against intelligent yorick who opened boots 3 mana pots, got FB level 1, got another kill when he came back into lane, he was level 2 when I was 5, dunked him like 5 times that game)
16-7-5 win (got so outrageously fed, IIRC I was against Q first Jarvan, who tried to trade with me at level 1, FB level 1, they rotated through 3 champs toplane, none of which could lane me, Corki fared best but still got dunked twice before they left me top lane)
14-8-10 loss dunked everyone earlygame (started like 10-2) but couldn't do well later.
15-4-4 loss game was awkward since I was the only lane that won, but I won hard, so ended up being the only one who could get kills. Did the getting kills part well though.
11-6-1 loss similar to above, I started like 7-1 in laning, couldn't get there in midgame fights.
Feels like Darius is reliant on having a solid AP to burst people down partway. Am I missing something or does his mid and lategame suck beyond belief?
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EPT
