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On March 01 2013 11:05 Ryuu314 wrote:
After watching the TSM v. Vulcan game, I feel like Zhonyas should be pretty core on Xerath too since he's so vulnerable in seige mode. If Regi had Zhonyas during that game he would've been sniped off a lot less. While some of it was poor positioning, a lot of times a Xerath snipe can be simply due to him not being able to dodge skillshots while he's in seige.
+ Show Spoiler +TSM had a real issue with not getting caught because of all the vision Vulcan had. Nid was acting like shuttle/reaver.
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On March 01 2013 09:20 Ryuu314 wrote:
I spammed a shitton of Xerath games when he was released and S2, but I've yet to play him in S3.
I felt that Regi probably should've built a bit more AP early on. Xerath's ability to 100-0 someone is just absurd, but honestly, Regi's Morellonomicon rush made it so he barely did any damage. With the S3 penetration changes, optimal Xerath build for damage should probably be Guise/Sorc into CDR.
More than 1 game, Regi did exactly that: Guise/Sorc -> Morellonomicon. You're SO reliant on having your ultimate up, and having your Q be more spammable is important too.
Also, cancelling siege mode is instant and gives you a rather large speedboost - but dodging spears without vision on nidalee is still super hard no matter what.
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The cooldown on Xerath's ultimate is low enough that CDR needn't be that much of a priority early on. What's important is making it threatening, otherwise you end up in Reginald's situation where his lower ultimate cooldown allowed him to tickle ecco more often.
This is actually one of the reasons why I run Teleport on Xerath. Even if your lane opponent is intractable, you can always make a sudden appearance elsewhere. Xerath's range makes his teleport ganks very strong, as he needn't be anywhere near his targets to contribute to the action.
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wow xerath now drawing bans in LCS. But the games in which he was played, he wasn't too godlike or annoying though. I don't understand the bans.
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Was looking at Batjewman's lolking and he runs 13.9 magic pen, 28 AP at max level , 6.7 mr runes. Anyone else fool around with flat magic pen instead of the 3 AP quints?
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My rune page for Xerath is all MPen and Mp5, giving roughly 20 of the former. It's a little overkill, but it's fun.
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On March 03 2013 03:41 coopes wrote:
Was looking at Batjewman's lolking and he runs 13.9 magic pen, 28 AP at max level , 6.7 mr runes. Anyone else fool around with flat magic pen instead of the 3 AP quints?
The flat magic pen will benefit you more mid-late game. The 15 AP is better for trades early on. However, due to xerath's long ass range you can invest more into the late game with runes since you won't be trading but getting free pokes in every now n then. My personal preference page for xerath is flat magic pen quints/reds and AP/LVL yellows/blues. I like to build him glass cannon.
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I go ap for better farming, it def helps get that extra bit to kill more creeps so I can get an early nlr/dcap and farm even harder, and stronger poke to push opponent to back faster/burst him down if he stays. The extra mpen doesn't really do enough for me, even late game, if I feel I need more mpen I just build an earlier void staff and laugh at their useless mr. With sorc shoes+void staff it takes 150+ mr just to have 30 after the pen, and even 300 mr gets taken down to ~85. Stacking more mpen runes for late game is just overkill compared to ensuring that I get easy great farm and that my lane opponent is overwhelmed and underfarmed. Xerath already has the best mpen, he doesn't need more mpen, he needs "Power laning, power farming, power ganking, power kills! So many kills! Four-hundred kills!", which means ap to farm hard and hit harder.
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Suess you speak good words. Running teleport on xerath solves a great many problems I have with xerath. I don't really know what else to say but I will try it out next time I have a chance to play mid in ranked.
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On March 03 2013 12:03 Fyrewolf wrote:
I go ap for better farming, it def helps get that extra bit to kill more creeps so I can get an early nlr/dcap and farm even harder, and stronger poke to push opponent to back faster/burst him down if he stays. The extra mpen doesn't really do enough for me, even late game, if I feel I need more mpen I just build an earlier void staff and laugh at their useless mr. With sorc shoes+void staff it takes 150+ mr just to have 30 after the pen, and even 300 mr gets taken down to ~85. Stacking more mpen runes for late game is just overkill compared to ensuring that I get easy great farm and that my lane opponent is overwhelmed and underfarmed. Xerath already has the best mpen, he doesn't need more mpen, he needs "Power laning, power farming, power ganking, power kills! So many kills! Four-hundred kills!", which means ap to farm hard and hit harder.
Void staff is -35%, not reduce to 35%. So if a person had 200 mres, voidstaff + boots would reduce it to 115, and 106 with mpen reds.
edit: nvm forgot his w
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On March 03 2013 14:33 imBLIND wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2013 12:03 Fyrewolf wrote:
I go ap for better farming, it def helps get that extra bit to kill more creeps so I can get an early nlr/dcap and farm even harder, and stronger poke to push opponent to back faster/burst him down if he stays. The extra mpen doesn't really do enough for me, even late game, if I feel I need more mpen I just build an earlier void staff and laugh at their useless mr. With sorc shoes+void staff it takes 150+ mr just to have 30 after the pen, and even 300 mr gets taken down to ~85. Stacking more mpen runes for late game is just overkill compared to ensuring that I get easy great farm and that my lane opponent is overwhelmed and underfarmed. Xerath already has the best mpen, he doesn't need more mpen, he needs "Power laning, power farming, power ganking, power kills! So many kills! Four-hundred kills!", which means ap to farm hard and hit harder. Void staff is -35%, not reduce to 35%. So if a person had 200 mres, voidstaff + boots would reduce it to 115, and 106 with mpen reds. edit: nvm forgot his w
Ah, if only he could still get 70% pen...  + Show Spoiler +old 15% mastery and old void staff with W gave 69.4, dominion aura made it over 70
Though even with only 64.12% and slightly weaker marks and boots now, with the order change he actually has better pen under 270 mr (which is not so easy with all the mr nerfs). Xerath just laughs at your useless mr and destroys you anyway.
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Just switched up my Xerath page to benefit more early game giving greater kill potential at lvl 6 while still having the flat mpen to synergize with his W. I now run Flat AP quints, Scaling AP/LVL seals and Flat Mpen Reds/Blues. This still gives a starting 14 flat mpen.
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Bumping this in the hopes someone sees it and answers.
What's the starter in lane for Xerath now, and what are people's thoughts on Athene's v Morello for CDR? I've seen both used and since I haven't played him in ages I'm not sure if the mp5 on Morello's is enough to not buy Athene's (unless you need more mres or something).
Obviously Voidstaff and Dcap are still core otherwise.
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On April 24 2013 06:15 WaveofShadow wrote:
Bumping this in the hopes someone sees it and answers.
What's the starter in lane for Xerath now, and what are people's thoughts on Athene's v Morello for CDR? I've seen both used and since I haven't played him in ages I'm not sure if the mp5 on Morello's is enough to not buy Athene's (unless you need more mres or something).
Obviously Voidstaff and Dcap are still core otherwise.
I've seen most players go morello's since its cheaper. I'd go athene's if i need the MR but I rarely do since i'm poking from a distance anyway.
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Its better to go morello's if you are sure you'll be getting blues all game.
If you aren't then its not enough MP5, and you have to go Athenes or you're just gimping yourself all game. If you are facing someone who is actually harassing you too with long range or like kassadin/lb then Athenes is also better for the MR.
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On April 24 2013 06:15 WaveofShadow wrote:
Bumping this in the hopes someone sees it and answers.
What's the starter in lane for Xerath now, and what are people's thoughts on Athene's v Morello for CDR? I've seen both used and since I haven't played him in ages I'm not sure if the mp5 on Morello's is enough to not buy Athene's (unless you need more mres or something).
Obviously Voidstaff and Dcap are still core otherwise.
I used to go Morello's, but I switched to Athene's now. Morello's regen doesn't last for extended poking wars, Xerath's specialty. It's not really that much more expensive at 400 more, and infinite poke and magic resist are more useful than the small ap difference. I don't finish it until 4th item or later though, usually need the utility of other items more. I probably won't get morrello's anymore except very situationally.
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Really? What do you get first then? DC?
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On April 24 2013 10:55 nosliw wrote:
Really? What do you get first then? DC?
Of course, Xerath just needs to build damage first since he already has the range and the % pen. I don't need Athene's in lane for anything. I get ionian boots after DC so I don't need more cdr immediately, if I need mana I just get blue buff for max cdr and more than enough mp5 to recharge, and I run teleport so I can jump in and out of lane easily early on too. I usually find myself wanting the utility from liandry's, void staff, and sometimes even rylais too, to make my poke better before I feel the need to have infinite sustain for my poke(if I don't need long range slow or more % pen right away I get it earlier). Mana regen is nice if you have to poke a lot in the late game when everyone is fat, but Xerath doesn't really have huge mana problems earlier, managing spells well, a doran's, and occaisonal blue are good enough. I suppose a chalice might be ok against some aggresive ap assassin mid matchups, but I generally want to build my pokes to hit hard before I build to spam them, especially since W has such a long cd at low lvls anyway that you can't poke all that fast.
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Ionian boots on Xerath is a huge waste of potential. The 15 penetration from Sorc's effectively doubles between his W and the 8% mastery, and nearly triples once you add a Void Staff. You're basically missing out on 42 penetration by building CDR boots.
In addition, early on it's more important to hit hard than to hit fast. You yourself noted this. Because Xerath ult can only be used once per fight regardless of CDR, you're still going to gain more damage from Sorc's over Ionian. If you really need the CDR you can always grab a Codex for cheap.
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On April 25 2013 03:55 Seuss wrote:
Ionian boots on Xerath is a huge waste of potential. The 15 penetration from Sorc's effectively doubles between his W and the 8% mastery, and nearly triples once you add a Void Staff. You're basically missing out on 42 penetration by building CDR boots.
In addition, early on it's more important to hit hard than to hit fast. You yourself noted this. Because Xerath ult can only be used once per fight regardless of CDR, you're still going to gain more damage from Sorc's over Ionian. If you really need the CDR you can always grab a Codex for cheap.
I generally sell the ionian boots for sorcs later, it's just to supplement cdr for the midgame, he does want to have some cdr then (not just for ult, q still has 5 sec cd, slightly longer than most other ap's q) and boots is one of the easiest and cheapest ways to get it. I used to grab codex after dc, but now I just go for the boots, it's more cd for easier cheaper and faster than buying a side item for the cdr(since I don't get a morrello's after dc now). I also usually go into liandrys before void staff, which also has the 15 flat pen from haunting guise to make up for skipping sorcs during that time. Void staff isn't necessary immediately before anyone builds significant mr(need at least 80+ before getting void staff is better than switching cd boots out for sorc).
After I do switch to sorcs I get blue buff and a blue elixir or two for the cd. Xerath mostly only uses his q (e is utility and ult is for when the enemy is grouped up), so having that cd is useful. Selling the boots isn't a big deal when at the time I get them it provides just the right amount of cdr and lets me get to building items faster with a slightly delayed flat pen (from guise) that I can deal with since I already have more pen than other aps, I just prefer it now to buying sorcs+codex like I used to since I'm not building codex into anything for a while, and the 10% cdr from it is just not ideal enough.
Also, your math is off, having % pen doesn't make flat pen stronger with the new order, the new order just doesn't make having % pen make flat pen weaker. Now, missing out on 15 mpen is exactly equal to missing out on 15 mpen regardless of how much %mpen you have, not 42. Percent pen is calculated first, then flat pen is subtracted after. E.g.+ Show Spoiler +
64.12% pen (8%+void+W) vs 100 mr reduces it to 35.88, then flat pen is subtracted after.
35.88 mr -7.83 runes is 28.05.
35.88 mr - 22.83 runes+sorc is 13.05.
28.05-13.05 is 15 mpen that is being missed out on.
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EPT
