EPT[Champion] Ahri - Page 7
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On June 04 2012 13:51 Sufficiency wrote: But Ahri's burst is so bad that building dcap first is really NOT the best idea. I personally will still build her like a bruiser. What did I just read. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On June 01 2012 21:35 h3r1n6 wrote: Well, the ratio buffs are kind of small compared to the base damage nerfs at least on w (300 ap for r to break even, 800 ap for max rank w). Deathcap first should be a bit more common now, but you still can build any of abyssal, rylais, dfg or wota first instead. Yeah, I've been seeing CrsNijacky just rush DFG and 1shot things. How do you even lane against that? It snowballs so easily. DFG on Ahri is awesome. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
Her Q has 0.66 ratio, her W has 0.76 ratio (assuming all 3 hits the same target you want), her E has 0.35 ratio but extremely low base damage. Her R has 0.9 ratio if she hits three times; but there are two problems: 1. You don't typically expect to hit three times because often you are just using it to reposition yourself; 2. It takes 2 seconds to hit three times because of the casting delay. So yea, her burst isn't great and her ratios are pretty bad compared to most other AP carries. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On June 04 2012 18:57 Sufficiency wrote: Her Q has 0.66 ratio, her W has 0.76 ratio (assuming all 3 hits the same target you want), her E has 0.35 ratio but extremely low base damage. Her R has 0.9 ratio if she hits three times; but there are two problems: 1. You don't typically expect to hit three times because often you are just using it to reposition yourself; 2. It takes 2 seconds to hit three times because of the casting delay. So yea, her burst isn't great and her ratios are pretty bad compared to most other AP carries. Not really. Half of her Q is true damage. Which means the ratio on that part is effectively much much higher in terms of total damage dealt. And you will usually hit at least 1-2 of your R charges in full blown teamfights. In lane and small skirmishes, hitting all 3 charges on your intended target is very common. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On June 04 2012 18:57 Sufficiency wrote: Her Q has 0.66 ratio, her W has 0.76 ratio (assuming all 3 hits the same target you want), her E has 0.35 ratio but extremely low base damage. Her R has 0.9 ratio if she hits three times; but there are two problems: 1. You don't typically expect to hit three times because often you are just using it to reposition yourself; 2. It takes 2 seconds to hit three times because of the casting delay. So yea, her burst isn't great and her ratios are pretty bad compared to most other AP carries. His point is that Ahri's burst is actually pretty damn good. To compare to a "high burst champ" like say Annie at 6: Ahri: lv3Q(180)+lv1W(80)+lv1E(60)+lv1R(300)=600 damage. Annie: lv2Q(125)+lv3W(180)+lv1R(200)=505 damage. I also find it funny that you say she has poor ratios, because her kit overall has a 2.67 AP scaling which is pretty damn good. To continue the comparison to Annie, her kits scaling is only 2.15. You'd be hard pressed to find many champions with much more than 2.67 AP scaling on their kit... off the top of my head only champ with better is Cassiopeia with 3.3 (and Viktor's 3.86, but he only gets 5 item slots so doesn't really count). Besides, even if Ahri's burst sucked, or her scaling was terrible her kit is still really strong because she gets hard CC and really strong mobility. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On June 04 2012 19:24 iCanada wrote: His point is that Ahri's burst is actually pretty damn good. To compare to a "high burst champ" like say Annie at 6: Ahri: lv3Q(180)+lv1W(80)+lv1E(60)+lv1R(300)=600 damage. Annie: lv2Q(125)+lv3W(180)+lv1R(200)=505 damage. I also find it funny that you say she has poor ratios, because her kit overall has a 2.67 AP scaling which is pretty damn good. To continue the comparison to Annie, her kits scaling is only 2.15. You'd be hard pressed to find many champions with much more than 2.67 AP scaling on their kit... off the top of my head only champ with better is Cassiopeia with 3.3 (and Viktor's 3.86, but he only gets 5 item slots so doesn't really count). Besides, even if Ahri's burst sucked, or her scaling was terrible her kit is still really strong because she gets hard CC and really strong mobility. The problem is that Annie can use all her spells instantly. As far as I know, her W and R have no casting delays whatsoever. Ahri's burst is quite delayed. Like I said, Ahri's R takes two seconds to fully cast; her Q and W also have delays for different reasons. If you do not land your E first, there would be no "burst", but rather a stream of damage that spans over around two seconds. This won't work well on someone with high sustain or some sort of CC. Think about it this way. You are hiding in a brush, and all of a sudden one squishy member of the opposing team facechecks you. What is going to happen as Ahri and as Annie? As Annie it's very simple. Assuming you have at least one charge already, a full rotation of her spells, which cast instantly, will stun her target and do the maximum about of damage she can do. As Ahri it's trickier. You can land an E for free then go with Q and W (this is, btw, already an ideal scenario which you can land W on the same target...). To get a burst superior than Annie, Ahri also needs to utilize her R for damage, but it takes time to cast; during this time she can be easily shutted down by targetted CCs. The point is, Ahri plays quite differently from a lot of the other "bursty" AP carries because Ahri's R does not provide burst. She also has the problem of her W being proximity based. Because of her somewhat odd kit and true damage on her Q, I think it's better to think of her like an AP bruiser. Don't get me wrong, I really like to play Ahri and I think she is OP; this is just my opinion on how her kit works and why she should be built tanky. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On June 04 2012 18:57 Sufficiency wrote: Her Q has 0.66 ratio, her W has 0.76 ratio (assuming all 3 hits the same target you want), her E has 0.35 ratio but extremely low base damage. Her R has 0.9 ratio if she hits three times; but there are two problems: 1. You don't typically expect to hit three times because often you are just using it to reposition yourself; 2. It takes 2 seconds to hit three times because of the casting delay. So yea, her burst isn't great and her ratios are pretty bad compared to most other AP carries. I'm going to adress your points later tonight because I'm sort of in a hurry right now, all I wanted to put across was that even though Ahri doesn't 100-0 people within the span of 2 seconds (much like Annie does), she is very capable of 100-0ing people. Her burst isn't BANG BOOM BANG but rather chips away at the opponents health because it comes in so many hits. (2xQ, 3xW, 3xR) I just didn't really feel that the sentiment of Ahri not having the greatest burst was correct. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On June 04 2012 22:59 Shiv. wrote: I'm going to adress your points later tonight because I'm sort of in a hurry right now, all I wanted to put across was that even though Ahri doesn't 100-0 people within the span of 2 seconds (much like Annie does), she is very capable of 100-0ing people. Her burst isn't BANG BOOM BANG but rather chips away at the opponents health because it comes in so many hits. (2xQ, 3xW, 3xR) I just didn't really feel that the sentiment of Ahri not having the greatest burst was correct. The other thing is that her mobility is so good that she just beats most champs when she decides to go all in. There are very few champs who can fight her successfully once they eat any burst you can do while they stuck charmed. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On June 05 2012 00:50 iCanada wrote: The other thing is that her mobility is so good that she just beats most champs when she decides to go all in. There are very few champs who can fight her successfully once they eat any burst you can do while they stuck charmed. Right. I agree with what both of you said, but my gameplay experience with Ahri is that in later stages of the game, if you do not land your E to start the combo, it is extremely dangerous to proceed with it... especially if you are glass cannon. Because your target, while taking Ahri's "burst", can still fight back as Ahri cannot 100-0 someone in an instant. I think this is why Ahri needs a tanky build with Rylai's and/or Abysal. I don't know. Maybe dcap first Ahri will see some surge in popularity after the patch, but I honestly don't think it's a very good build. | ||
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adriftt
335 Posts
abyssal is good against double AP or something like veigar/LB DFG is OK but only if you know you can snowball with it (IE easy lane). also if they have a lot of CC, don't do it | ||
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ThE)ShoWTimE
Italy213 Posts
thanks! | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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SidianTheBard
United States2474 Posts
Dfg with Ahri can make or break fights. If you ever land a seduce on their Support, AD carry or Mid you can usually DFG > Ult > Combo and kill them or at least bring them extremely low that they won't want to fight in a team fight. Abyssal is just amazing since all her spells (except seduce) are AoE and thus benefit soooo much from the -20 MR. I actually prefer going DFG due to the Mana Regen, CDR and Clicky (which scales all game long) Plus if you get DFG early enough you WILL always fully combo bottom lane / Jungle no matter what because they won't have enough items to give them enough protection. Ahri is easily my favorite mid to play because of how strong and mobile she is. | ||
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ThE)ShoWTimE
Italy213 Posts
On June 20 2012 10:28 Sufficiency wrote: I don't see why you shouldn't run flat MP/5 runes. so more mpen? i run mpen reds and ap per level blues, is it worth to get mpen yellows as well as you say? for now i run mana regen yellows because i'm using an old rune setup but i wanna make a page specifically for ahri, that's why i was asking if hp/level yellows are still viable or the best choice.. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On June 20 2012 21:36 ThE)ShoWTimE wrote: so more mpen? i run mpen reds and ap per level blues, is it worth to get mpen yellows as well as you say? for now i run mana regen yellows because i'm using an old rune setup but i wanna make a page specifically for ahri, that's why i was asking if hp/level yellows are still viable or the best choice.. I run 3 flat Mregen and 6 scaling Mregen, provides the best mix in my opinion. | ||
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Hakanfrog
Sweden690 Posts
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ThE)ShoWTimE
Italy213 Posts
On June 20 2012 23:35 Shiv. wrote: I run 3 flat Mregen and 6 scaling Mregen, provides the best mix in my opinion. nice idea, i'll try this =) thanks! | ||
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