Warning: Big ass wall of text incoming, your fault for not making this thread earlier!
Champion description Ahri is in my opinion an extremely strong mid laner, i'll go so far as to say that she has the strongest laning past level 6 (of any ap), with no weak match ups and a strong presence for the entire duration of the game, she's an incredibly good solo queue champ.
Orb of Deception mana cost increased to 70/75/80/85/90 from 60/65/70/75/80 Spirit Rush cooldown increased to 90/80/70 seconds from 80/70/60
Very justified nerfs, ahri pretty much remains the same in playstyle you just have to be a little smarter with your cooldowns and mana. That W is also looking very nice now.
Summoner skills (Innate): Ahri gains a charge of Essence Theft whenever one of her spells hits an enemy. This caps at 3 charges per spell cast. Upon reaching 9 charges, Ahri's next spell will have 35% bonus spell vamp.
This passive makes her very strong vs champs with good harass but poor clearing power like leblanc, you'll also be activating this like crazy in teamfights without realizing.
(Active): Ahri sends out an orb in a line in front of her and then pulls it back, dealing magic damage on the way out and true damage on the way back. Cost: 60 / 65 / 70 / 75 / 80 mana, Range: 880, Cooldown: 7 seconds Magic Damage: 40 / 65 / 90 / 115 / 140 (+0.33 per ability power) True Damage: 40 / 65 / 90 / 115 / 140 (+0.33 per ability power)
A very nice nuke that will be your main harass in lane, in teamfights this will be your main sustained damage and it will do massive damage if you can land it on multiple enemies. The true damage component will allow you to win lanes that would be pretty challenging without it (Galio) and rape others which were already a certain win (Morgana), it will also make your damage stay relevant for the entire game, regardless if you're hitting a squishy or not. It also makes for an efficient wave clearing ability, and it makes sorc boots worse for ahri than most other mids.
The range is actually a little larger than what the game tells you, it will go almost a full orb's length outside of the advertised radius at some ponts in the circle, this is important to know if you want to hit those ranged minions from a safer distance and its also the best distance to hit anything, especially other champions in lane since it will do both parts of damage instantly. I don't recommend you smartcast this ability because knowing the range is pretty important for laning.
(Active): Ahri releases three fox-fires to surround her. After a short delay they will attack nearby enemies, prioritizing champions, to deal magic damage to them. Additional fox-fires that hit the same target deal 50% damage. Cost: 60 mana, Range: 800 Cooldown: 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 / 5 seconds Magic Damage Per Fire: 40 / 70 / 100 / 130 / 160 (+0.38 per ability power) Maximum Damage to the Same Target: 80 / 140 / 200 / 260 / 320 (+0.76 per ability power) Maximum Damage: 120 / 210 / 300 / 390 / 480 (+1.14 per ability power)
An important thing to note is, every fox fire has its own range, meaning each fox fire makes a radius of 800, so you have to be a little close for all 3 to hit that champion standing between the creeps. Do not underestimate the range however, it outranges most nukes from other aps and since you can cast it while moving, you can cast it while running away or at a distance that the other laner will not expect. In teamfights you should basically cast this every time its off cooldown like with your q, it makes for good sustained damage. When bursting someone by initiating with r cast it once you're in range of the other champ not before unless there are no minions nearby. You don't want some fox fires going against minions while your r is being cast.
This is also your main weapon in case you decide to take on melee champions at top lane so max it before q only in those cases.
(Active): Ahri blows a kiss that travels in a line in front of her. It will deal magic damage and charm the first enemy it encounters, causing them to walk harmlessly towards her, while being slowed by 50% for the duration. Cooldown: 12 seconds, Range: 975 Cost: 50 / 65 / 80 / 95 / 110 mana Magic Damage: 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 (+0.35 per ability power) Charm Duration: 1 / 1.25 / 1.5 / 1.75 / 2 seconds
Pretty awesome cc with a lot of different uses, such as kiting melee champs, stopping channeling abilities, forcing junglers into turret range, slowing assholes like skarner, rammus, udyr; letting you get off a full combo on an enemy ap safely, or simply making sure your q does both parts of damage. The hardest part about this skill is knowing when to use it, as the cooldown is long enough that you are unlikely to be able to use it twice in a 1v1 situation. Vs champs in melee range, unless you r away, you want it to help you land the orb as it comes back so you cast it after you casted the orb. When isolating an ad carry in late game teamfights you want it to buy you as much time as possible for your stuff to come off cooldown so you use it after you have casted everything else.
(Active): Ahri dashes towards the cursor and fires essence bolts, dealing magic damage to 3 nearby enemies, prioritizing champions. Spirit Rush can be cast two additional times before going on cooldown. Each enemy can only be hit once per dash. Cost: 100 mana, Range: 450 Cooldown: 80 / 70 / 60 seconds Magic Damage Per Bolt: 100 / 140 / 180 (+0.3 per ability power) Max Magic Damage to the Same Target: 300 / 420 / 540 (+0.9 per ability power) Max Magic Damage: 900 / 1260 / 1620 (+2.7 per ability power)
There's nothing particularly original about this skill, but it is what makes ahri a unique champion. This skill makes her the strongest mid laner in the game past level six imo, simply because you can force damage on the other laner whenever you damn please and if that wasnt enough, it makes her invincible vs ap's who either depend on skill shots to kill you or for you to be in sufficient range. The small cooldown begs this to be abused as much as possible and it's the main reason i prefer cdr boots over sorcs in ahri. This also makes her an incredible kiter, a very solid pick vs aoe comps, a really good ganker, one of the best tower divers, among other things. The damage on this thing is not to be underestimated either.
All in all, ahri is pretty strong for the entire game with the weakest phase being her levels 1-5, if you want to shut her down, you better pick an aggressive mid and try to abuse her as much as possible for the first few levels.
Summoners Ignite flash are a safe choice. Teleport can be used vs people that you outpush and when you want to force that early advantage (leblanc, kass, ryze, etc). Or simply vs lanes where you think you will have trouble. Cleanse can be better vs certain team comps. Other summoners aren't really worth it, except perhaps for heal.
Masteries and Runes: Runes: MPen reds, hp per level yellows, ap blues, flat ap quints. If you switch the blues for mres then you don't deserve this champion (jk but honestly..).
You can switch those yellows for armor if you feel like going top. Her scaling is pretty good so there's little reason to run cdr on runes, or at most run 10% cdr.
Skill order QWQE, R > Q > W > E, pretty standard for mid lane. QEQW, R > Q > W > E if you're afraid of getting ganked early (mostly determined by jungler) You can also decide to max W over Q for matchups vs melee champs at top or certain match ups mid, though i don't recommend her as a champion for top lane, let the other ap in your team take that role. You can level E over W if you feel you're having trouble in lane/their jungler is giving you problems. To land the W you have to get a little close, maybe enough for the other ap to nuke you and if you're losing the lane its best to avoid him altogether and just max E over W. You can also ignore E completely until level 8-9 for lanes where you want the most damage possible, mostly vs morgana.
Item build
Very standard, you can't go wrong with these. Always open boots 3, there's no reason not to since your early levels are your weakest, boots help you harass and survive the other laner's first levels. CDR boots are mostly for abusing your ultimate's cooldown, mercs are another solid option but mostly situational. If you get an early kill and you're farming well then go ahead and get that NLR instead of the dorans (still get them later). The dorans help a lot with the extra health and mana regen, you can get a third in some cases like when your jungler gives your opponent a blue buff or when you go back to buy after getting a kill and you cant afford anything besides a dring, whatever makes you dominate your lane asap is good. Only get sorc boots if you're top lane and you're maxing W over Q, but even then cdr boots are better. Otherwise, as a follow up there are many viable options:
Very standard, great damage for mid game, start by getting the NLR first you cant go wrong with cap as your first big item every game.
Very good on ahri, in teamfights this item will allow you to be the last one to die while doing damage the entire time, some champions will demand that you pick at least this item for getting tanky (ryze, kennen, etc.). Don't rush revolver though, you want the mana regen from the rings, doing so is just asking to get outpushed.
I previously used to recommend morello's but with the recent changes, DFG is clearly superior although morellos isn't all that bad. Cooldown reduction is always good and the active will make it very difficult for anyone without a negatron cloak to survive your full combo.
Situational items which you can save for last, get rylai's if you need to get tanky, don't get it for the slow as it really isn't needed unless their team is melee heavy or full of people that just like running away, then get it asap. Abyssal is great vs dual ap teams. You can also go for longer than other ap champions without a void staff due to your true damage, but it's always ok to have it after you get a respectable amount of ap.
Of the two, Sash is superior, mostly what will kill you are stuns/binds for which you'd rather have sash, if you need health get a giants belt and some time later a rylai's.
Items to avoid You don't need the mana from archangels and ROA is a bad item overall for you. You don't need to survive in lane, you are the bully and you want damage and cdr asap. You wouldn't open catalyst on leblanc, you won't open catalyst on Ahri.
Playstyle If you can't hit those skillshots don't play this champion. If you can then get ready to dominate any mid laner that you come up against.
Mid Lane General recipe for mid lane is this: Do not get outharassed levels 1-5 then abuse the crap out of your ultimate. Every mid ap laner with no exception will use at least one skill for clearing the wave, the name of the game is abusing the cooldowns. When they use their skills on the creeps is when you move in with your ult, take 70% of their health if you land your charm then move away taking much less damage. Regardless of who they are, they won't have recovered that amount of health by the time your ult is up again and meanwhile you can continue your harass except that now you have the upper hand since they are lower hp.
Vs mid laners who give you trouble with their harass you can just push with a Q per wave and your autos, many of them will get outpushed by you and the rest won't be able to outpush you. Sure malz may be a little more mana efficient, sion and anivia may clear the wave a little bit faster but the bottom line is that if you don't want the creep wave to reach your turret then it won't reach your fucking turret.
Your auto animation is pretty friendly and the little missile itself is fast enough to beat the ranged creeps missiles so there's no reason not to last hit properly and your auto is a pretty good harass weapon vs the majority of mid laners.
Use your Q and W for harass, most ahri's i've played against like to use their E for harass. I only use E for defensive measures, to catch people from running away and to begin my burst when i get in range of their nukes but never for harass. E is too mana intensive to use it as a harass tool and if you can land it then you might as well have landed that Q instead. the best range to land the Q is at max range where it will do full damage instantly. But use it smartly, abuse the times when they want to last hit, when they are walking towards you or towards the creep wave wanting to use a spell, when they are retreating in a straight line trying to get away asap, when they are getting blocked by their creeps, etc. If you just use it when they have their full attention on your character then you will hit nothing but air. Sure it's nice to use your ult to get 60% or more of their hp, but if you have harassed before it's nicer to use your ult as the finishing move or to force them out of the lane immediately.
Don't overestimate the ability of a player to land crucial skillshots when you all of a sudden jump on them and start bursting them down.
Common match ups mid Possibly the hardest match up early game. Unlike other champions however, you don't get outpushed vs cass, this helps because she can't zone you as hard since you aren't getting blocked by your own minions. The animation on her q is such that if you cast your own q at the right time you can force her to eat the whole orb and your q does more damage, use your e to slow her if she lands a q and you are about to eat a round of fangs, if she whiffs a q don't be afraid to get a little close to cast your w. Another good thing is that cass isn't the best of tower divers. Once you get to level 6 the tables are turned heavily in your favor unless you died to her. This is because while cass is good on the offense she sucks at defending herself particularly against you. The best time to abuse your ult is as soon as she uses her q on a creep, bonus points if you use your r to dodge her q instead. Her ult is hard to dodge but that's not the point, if she uses it too soon her q will be on cd and she will lose the trade, if she waits she will get charmed and eat a full combo before she can respond.
By far my most played match up, for some reason everyone seems to think that brand is a good counterpick, or maybe there are just that many brand players. The worst thing you can do against a brand is get in range of his e. All a decent brand needs to land his pillar is a close enough distance and if you're in range for him to land his e first then you're playing the match up wrongly. You outpush this champion and your harass is superior since its harder to dodge and you don't get blocked by creeps. Brands will clear the wave with their pillar which is their single most damaging ability, abuse your ultimate right after they use it (make sure it misses you). If they use their e too then gg, he can't even stun you with a lucky q.
This is such a dumb champion, how can you get so damaging while getting so tanky is beyond me. It is a challenging match up if you are new to Ahri, otherwise you outpush him and outrange him. Clueless ryze players will open mana crystal, abuse the shit out of that, he can't get close to you, if he tries land a Q on his face and run away. You have the advantage in this lane, your charm is fucking amazing because he is such a spammy character and it basically nullifies the time you are rooted while you are bursting him down. However he is still a bs champion and he will force you to build tanky no matter what, he will focus you down in teamfights and you must be able to stand up to him. Wota into rylais is a solid build vs ryze. don't get the revolver before you get your drings though, drings are too good. Also, despite banshee's being such a dumb item on ryze and basically the very first thing that he gets, all of your skills hit so many times that the little shield doesn't really matter.
Contrary to what most people think, ahri outclasses leblanc in lane. The easiest way to handle her is to take teleport, outpush the shit out of her levels 1-5 (do not miss cs!) then go back, teleport to lane 2 drings ahead and then you can ask her whose level 6 burst hurts more. If you feel her burst is too much don't be afraid to go 3 drings -> giants belt -> wota -> rylais and she has to find another target in teamfights. If you are having problems, let yourself get zoned a bit, the wave will push back eventually, abuse the times when she uses her q on a minion, either to shove the wave to her turret and gank other lanes or burst her down if you think it's worth it. A leblanc with blue will abuse you more than you can abuse her with the same buff, play more passive and use every chance you have to push the wave back so that you can gank. Even with blue leblanc isn't much better at clearing waves. This one is basically the only champion that prevents you from abusing your ult, unless you get a decent lead early on, use your ult to gank. Did I mention that pushing charges your passive which nullifies her harass?
Kennen is also at a disadvantage vs you although a decent kennen can survive the lane and he supports ganks pretty well, ward for yourself, rushing towards you through the creeps is suicide since your e will make him eat a full combo while he won't get to you because he'll be slowed if he rushes towards the creep wave to damage it then go nuts with your W, overall not a hard match up. Did i mention that you outpush him? However, like Ryze, this champion forces you to get tanky, wota at the least is a must, if you get to late game building pure damage he will just flash ult and kill you in the blink of an eye. Consider getting cleanse for when the opposing team is running double ap aoe team, kennen seems to be a favorite in those configurations.
This match up isn't hard at all if you play it correctly. Get W first and max it before Q, only get E if you really think it's necessary, I often get it level 8-9 since you want the most damage possible vs sion. Level 1-2 your W and your autos will break his shield easily, making it very mana inneficient for him. If he gets close to you with his shield down, cast W and auto him, retreat when he activates it. If he comes with his shield up judge whether you can break it in time, usually you have to cast your W immediately after he activates it. If you cant break it, back off but not so much, you should be able to chase after him right after his shield explodes to land a couple of fox fires. If things go wrong and you are losing, ward your lane and follow sion wherever he ganks. You should win small teamfights vs sion because you do a lot more damage and you can chase people much better. Basically you just have to play a little smart in lane vs him.
Her shield doesn't reduce true damage, her ult is all but a damaging single tick vs you even if she lands a bind, she gets outpushed which hurts her W. Everything is basically set up for you to completely rape this lane and in truth it isn't hard to come out 40+ cs ahead while forcing her to remain in lane for the entire laning phase. But can you do that and also get a kill or two off of her and also gank for your other lanes? If you can then you probably won the game already for your team. Consider not getting charm at all until level 7-9, even if her jungler babysits her this should be a clear win for you. You should be able to beat morganas consistently without allowing them to arrive unscathed to the point where they can just farm safely with a single poodle per wave. This is pretty much the most basic match up for any ahri player since you are morgana's most logical counter, which is particularly nice since everyone seems to want to pick her first.
Don't get outharassed, always keep an eye on the champion, do not try to dodge his Q by looking for the spell's particle, instead look at the animation of the champion itself. This matchup is a little similar to morgana's, except that xerath is a little harder but you really love when he sits in place for you to land that Q. Dodging every single on of his skillshots is also pretty sweet and even if he hits one of them it's gonna hardly be the first one so his damage will be underwhelming and as such he will lose trades.
You really don't have a bigger problem vs annie than any other ap mid, and she isn't the strongest of laners, however if you're both level 6 free farming with 100% hp then you're doing it wrong. She will burst you eventually and if it doesn't kill you then you will be forced to go back and then she will start winning the lane. Harass her since there isn't any danger of getting outpushed. Always have her selected so you can keep track of the stacks on her passive.
With no junglers or with only weak gankers involved you should win this lane, despite him being melee you should max Q over W, the problem with talon is the fact that he supports ganks extremely well so ward for yourelf and don't be overaggressive if you don't know where their jungler is. Consider getting cleanse or qss if they have multiple gap closers, talon can really make you miserable in teamfights if he catches you just a little bit off position and if he has teammates that can abuse that.
Top Lane This section will be very brief as I don't think she makes a good top laner. You can bully around some champions like gp, irelia, nasus, trynda. Some others are just straight up suicide (riven). And in the case that you go vs another ap at top, I think ahri becomes weaker because it's harder for her to control the brushes and those champions usually have better escapes levels 1-5 which is pretty important for that lane.
Ahri in teamfights This is obviously too complicated to dwelve on too deep, but I'll post some generalities.
Poke, poke, poke until they're weak enough that your team can commit. If that chogath is standing like a hero in front of the enemy team charm him then QW on his face for free. In some cases you can ult into a mispositioned carry and burst him, even if you don't kill her, a carry with 30% hp is pretty demoralizing (don't do this if they have a soraka, waste of ult). Not only do you excel at poking but unlike champions like xerath you have much better tools to escape and even kite assholes like rammus, skarner, etc.
When you commit, if they are clumped you use your Q and W, if they are spread your ulti gives you massive mobility to reposition yourself wherever you see fit, you can single out carries, or peel people from your ad, among many other things.
Ahri as a team member Generally ahri does well in poke teams, teams with assassins or along champions that can single out people from the rest of the team. You can always do well with people like gragas, irelia, skarner, graves, and so on. Ahri does not do so well with champs that want to commit asap with mass cc, if that galio lands a perfect ult you're gonna be left wishing you were annie, brand or something similar because your Q is the only reliable spell to hit champions standing next to or behind other champions.
That said, do not ever try to finish off a champion standing in the middle of his team, if you can't kill him with your Q you cant kill him at all.
Playing against ahri I don't think there's a lane that a competent ahri can't win, unless you take the coward's way out and send something like riven or panth mid. Just pick your best champion. For example, ryze gets outpushed and can't harass well, but if you can't farm at turret with ryze then you should play another champ. Anivia, karthus are mostly helpless vs that level 6 combo but you can farm just fine if you're careful and if you're good with them you'll prolly win teamfights too. Heck if you think you're hot shit with morgana then you can probably win this lane consistently through superior harass. I myself like to pick cass even if I'd pick ahri vs a first pick cass without a second thought.
On January 24 2012 11:11 NeoIllusions wrote: Boss thread, Cloud.
Thanks.
Edit: R > Q > E > W
Really don't think maxing E over W is good unless you're really having trouble in lane or with ganks. W is too good for damage and harass with constant mana costs and lower cd with levels.
Play Ahri like an assassin, not a poker. You have great damage with Q. W is supplementary. E is great CC. R to position yourself in team fight. You can pick a lot of squishy AD/AP off by yourself.
A small tip for Ahri's Q: the fact that the orb returns towards you means that you can cast it while out of position before lining up your target (I've never tried it with flash or R but I assume it works the same way) or extend it's range (kinda) by moving away from it (something to keep in mind if being chased).
I also get W over E because it just deals way too much damage on a way too low CD. Lvl 1 E is allready enough for landing a Q 100%. Also people can dodge E.
very good guide here. Can agree with almost everything. I'am just a huge fan of rilay's tbh. I guess it is situational as you say but I actually make it every game. There is almost allways a bruiser that charges your carry and I think Ahri excels at kiting and disrupting those tryndameres etc. E helps you and your carry to gain some space after the gapcloser and with rilays you gain a reliable perma slow. In lategame fights I allways try to keep an eye on my carry during the pokeing phase and when the engagement happens I try to jump next to him and charm/slow down the enemy bruiser/assassin. Ahri's sustained damage is made for kiting and killing tanks with your carry IMO. Wota is ofc good on ahri but I kinda only get the opponents have strong pokes. I feel that ahris positioning has to be aggressive so you can land some Qs before the engagement starts and people try to initiate on her constantly, thats why I prefer raw HP over spellvamp on her. Others chasing or running away from ahri is a thing i encounter often. Also why tank and then spellvamp back the damage when you can completely avoid it?
Agree with most of this, but I usually prefer getting a fast wota against a harder/more sustainy matchup (like vlad) after the drings, and I like sorc boots over lucidity. R > Q > W > E except against some melee, w first and maybe no e at all early for extra damage (like mord). If it's an easier lane or I've gotten some early kills and can get a rabadons by 15-17 minutes, I'll do that and just go around blowing people up before the rank 1 e wears off. Then I'll get the wota unless I need HP against leblanc or something, then rylais or abyssal if there's 2+ AP. I don't think I've lost mid or top lane yet with her, worst scenario has been roughly even, and that's usually when there's a roaming twitch or their jungler is camping mid.
How does Ahri fair against Galio? Been playing him a lot recently, but for whatever reason I've never played against an ahri mid.
The only Ahri I've queue'd against was smart and went bottom lane with Soraka and gave me Ashe mid. That being said, seeing how she does true damage, i don't think galio would shit on her as hard as he does most AP carries. I do think he could farm with her easily though.
Damn dude , I was planning to post a guide myself. Would anyone still be interested in another guide from my perspective ( ~~2200euw) and if yes , whats the right way to post it , creating a new thread? This is by far my favourite champion and i just dont feel like this guide does her justice. Good effort tho
On January 24 2012 13:59 TheBJ wrote: Damn dude , I was planning to post a guide myself. Would anyone still be interested in another guide from my perspective ( ~~2200euw) and if yes , whats the right way to post it , creating a new thread? This is by far my favourite champion and i just dont feel like this guide does her justice. Good effort tho
No on TL there's one thread per champion (although not every champion is covered). I believe the best way to go about contributing your Ahri knowledge would be to PM something to the OP and have him implement it somehow. I'm not sure exactly how this works, but Neo should be able to help you with that!
this format is amazing, one of the best guides on TL by far, up there with smash's dragoonmacia guide
one tiny nitpick - the title "9 tails fox" looks awful. i logged in and saw that it's as such in the champ overlay, but in-game isn't it "nine-tailed fox"? i think that would look a lot better
but other than that, other guides should aspire to be this organized
I've been eschewing the deathcap rush a lot lately for earlier Rylai/WOTA [in no particular order] and I'm really liking it. Her base damage is pretty decent and the rylai slow is so strong on her W [counts as single target, and it lasts longer than normal because the second/third foxfire refresh the duration] making it simple to land charm, or force a flash avoiding it.
You seem to get CDR items a lot, isn't bluebuff kinda stepping on that? It's fine imo to get ONE, but CDR boots AND morello's tome doesn't really make sense to me (In fact, morello doesn't make sense at all, why not just get DFG so you can nuke super-hard? It's not like you're xerath who will never be in range to use the activate.)
I will try out the CDR boots though, seems good on her for that early&midgame ult usage - max cdr with those early blue buffs seems like it could be devastating, and you benefit from mPen ever so slightly less than other casters.
I disagree with Neo - Ahri isn't an assassin the way, say, Akali is. She doesnt dive towards a team, she prefers to hang around the edge of a teamfight and kite until there's someone isolated, overextended, or low health (Note that Ahri may be directly responsible for causing these with her poking power and/or charm). Even then she's more peel-able than other champs with assassin-kits because as cloud pointed out, body blocking is effective against her E, W, and to a very minor extent, her R. She's about halfway between an assassin and a poke-mage.
The only real trick to Ahri is doubling up your wave right before you hit 6 then pushing it really hard so you can get your ult and force a kill or a bluepill, making them lose two waves of creep exp to the tower. The only problem is if their jungler is good, he'll camp mid and you'll have to outflash him to escape, which sometimes is impossible.
On January 24 2012 12:51 iCanada wrote: How does Ahri fair against Galio? Been playing him a lot recently, but for whatever reason I've never played against an ahri mid.
The only Ahri I've queue'd against was smart and went bottom lane with Soraka and gave me Ashe mid. That being said, seeing how she does true damage, i don't think galio would shit on her as hard as he does most AP carries. I do think he could farm with her easily though.
Galio can farm but he can't kill ahri, ahri can just turn it into a farmfest, although galio is mostly helpless vs ahri's combo, and in teamfights there's too much pressure for galio to catch ahri in his ult. If you flash ult and ahri is outside the range your ult is gonna get interrupted immediately.
The thing I'm confused about is leveling W over Q vs Sion. What's to stop him from simply pushing the lane and leaving to gank? Every time I've ever prioritized W on Ahri I've regretted it, it always seems to hit minions unless there's a champ in your face and leaves you open to heavy pushers.
W and 1-2 autos are enough to break his shield until he gets a good amount of ap which is until much later in the game. Your W gets lower and lower in cooldown while his shield remains the same and he has to back every time you break his shield unless he wants to eat more harass. His shield is nowhere near enough early game to clear waves on its own, he has to auto the creeps and that opens him up to harass if you react fast. The point is that sion can't push with a broken shield or without the ability to auto the creeps. It is hard for him to get to the point where he can just clear the wave with his shield alone then go gank, and even at that time you do a lot more damage thanks to your ult and you can still easily break his shield with a cast of W and the first damage part of Q. After you break his shield like that you can move in with your ult and force him to eat all 3 parts of your ult and a W before his shield comes off cd and all he has in response is an underlevelled stun.
If you max Q instead then you're trying to beat sion in a pushing game which is not gonna happen because now he can harass and zone since you have no reliable way to break his shield with a slow skillshot.
Also there's the little fact that you have innate sustain while he has none to speak of.
If youre losing your lane as ahri you just push the wave and go somewhere else. Shes like sion but doesnt suck as much, and her ganks are so strong that if you dont get spotted its a guaranteed kill. I honestly think shes the strongest solo queue champion atm.
Hm yeah even if the other guy sees you coming from a mile away and he's almost at his turret while you're still in the river you can still catch up to him and take 70% percent of his health off or even more with ignite. Sucks that a lot of people underestimate your ganks and assume that he is already safe and wont follow up.
You guys should watch top replays of the week , if you already aren't. I just did an epic penta kill that im sure every ahri player here will enjoy :D. I submited the replay to protatomaster and im 99% sure ill get chosen
I have a lot of success as Ryze against Ahri played the way you suggest. It's so easy to walk directly towards them and bait a Q and/or E, and then dodge it before it hits (you can often get off an Overload at the same time as well). After repeating that move a few time Ahri is low enough to zone off the creeps, and it's pretty easy to build an advantage from there.
After 6 she's dangerous, but you can be enough ahead at that point to be safe.
The only trick is to never be hit by Charm. If Ahri hits you with Charm it's like guaranteed kill after 6. QQ
On January 25 2012 04:13 Hakker wrote: If youre losing your lane as ahri you just push the wave and go somewhere else. Shes like sion but doesnt suck as much, and her ganks are so strong that if you dont get spotted its a guaranteed kill. I honestly think shes the strongest solo queue champion atm.
Wait wasn't sion just permabanned for the past 5 patches or so?
Ahri always scares me, it seems she'll always pull ahead in lane against my conventional champs. She has the combination of great sustain, damage, range and mobility.
I haven't really come up with many ideas for a counter yet, but I'm thinking its going to either be Zilean in lane or a suppression ult in teamfights.
I've had good success with Swain against her, but thats probably due to the Ahri's not playing her that well. I think most (or all) of Ahri's matchups just come down to skill.
The only matches I've been beaten mid during solo queue was vs a Leblanc. Only way she won was a jungle pressure that does some damage to you. Then she just threatens you until she's 6 and just forces you back with her nuke. As long as your ahead as ahri, I don't see you losing to any mid laner.
On January 25 2012 12:06 TheBJ wrote: You guys should watch top replays of the week , if you already aren't. I just did an epic penta kill that im sure every ahri player here will enjoy :D. I submited the replay to protatomaster and im 99% sure ill get chosen
I've actually had huge problems playing against Ryze in a team fight. The laning phase is not nearly as bad, I took the OP's advice and just tried to pressure and zone him while pushing and keeping my self warded (mid).
But then when a dragon/golem fight occurs I can't really engage the team due to Ryze. He gets his Veil and tear and all of a sudden his Overload does absurd damage and I can't burst him down. If I ult in at an inoppurtune time his Rune Prison locks me down and I just get obliterated. Any advice on how to engage a team with Ryze during a team fight?
If you got an advantage in lane vs ryze, Wota -> Rylais -> Dcap should be enough for you to 1v1 him in teamfights for a while. If he gets fed off your other teammates then you'll need a negatron sooner or later.
The point is, single him out, do a full REQW combo then retreat, don't let him abuse his cooldowns on you alone. Once your cds are over you can come back to finish him. But anyway you should be aiming for favorable exchanges, which basically means don't let him combo you for free. A low health ryze is worse for their team than a low health ahri is for yours because of his lower range, worse cc and because his team is most likely counting on him to actually tank stuff.
On January 25 2012 12:06 TheBJ wrote: You guys should watch top replays of the week , if you already aren't. I just did an epic penta kill that im sure every ahri player here will enjoy :D. I submited the replay to protatomaster and im 99% sure ill get chosen
didn't see it, I guess you didn't make it O.o
Not really sure if i submitted it correctly , it doesnt really say success or anything when u submit :D
Edit:apparently u should get a confirmation email which i didnt i tried resubmitting but still doesnt work
I don't get why people rush dcap. It's an expensive ass item, and doesn't give you much versatility besides straight up ap. From my experiences, Rylai's is absolutely by far the best item on ahri. The slow works on all her spells including w and her ult and her q can hit multiple targets easily. You should be playing her for ganks and kills in solo queue, and the best item for that is rylais. Not only that but you can kite any hero with this and punish them back if they don't 100-0 you. When you start ulting in 1 on 1 you want that extra survivability early on.
And ryze does not counter ahri. Just because you can't kill him doesn't mean he's a counter. You can push lane easily against him and roam, but just cause you can't ult in and 100-0 him doesn't mean anything. He should never be able to catch you and kill you.
And wtf, cdr boots? Joke? Listen, early on your cds don't need to be refreshed for you to get kills, you want straight up burst. If it's solely for the ult, the ult cd is very short and not needed all the time. Until you get void staff, mpen boots are easily the best, no other choice here.
On February 07 2012 14:36 Itsmedudeman wrote: I don't get why people rush dcap. It's an expensive ass item, and doesn't give you much versatility besides straight up ap. From my experiences, Rylai's is absolutely by far the best item on ahri. The slow works on all her spells including w and her ult and her q can hit multiple targets easily. You should be playing her for ganks and kills in solo queue, and the best item for that is rylais. Not only that but you can kite any hero with this and punish them back if they don't 100-0 you. When you start ulting in 1 on 1 you want that extra survivability early on.
And ryze does not counter ahri. Just because you can't kill him doesn't mean he's a counter. You can push lane easily against him and roam, but just cause you can't ult in and 100-0 him doesn't mean anything. He should never be able to catch you and kill you.
And wtf, cdr boots? Joke? Listen, early on your cds don't need to be refreshed for you to get kills, you want straight up burst. If it's solely for the ult, the ult cd is very short and not needed all the time. Until you get void staff, mpen boots are easily the best, no other choice here.
Very nice writeup, I'll be sure to practice those tips written, it's a whole other level than my measily play of Ahri. Especially pushing people to their towers seems very effective. If you don't mind, could you lose some words on playing vs. veigar? I'm normally going mercs against him to get out of the stun before his W hits, but maybe I'm just too careless against him? The times I lose lanes against him is if I get ganked and hit with a stun in that instance.
On February 07 2012 14:36 Itsmedudeman wrote: I don't get why people rush dcap. It's an expensive ass item, and doesn't give you much versatility besides straight up ap. From my experiences, Rylai's is absolutely by far the best item on ahri. The slow works on all her spells including w and her ult and her q can hit multiple targets easily. You should be playing her for ganks and kills in solo queue, and the best item for that is rylais. Not only that but you can kite any hero with this and punish them back if they don't 100-0 you. When you start ulting in 1 on 1 you want that extra survivability early on.
And ryze does not counter ahri. Just because you can't kill him doesn't mean he's a counter. You can push lane easily against him and roam, but just cause you can't ult in and 100-0 him doesn't mean anything. He should never be able to catch you and kill you.
And wtf, cdr boots? Joke? Listen, early on your cds don't need to be refreshed for you to get kills, you want straight up burst. If it's solely for the ult, the ult cd is very short and not needed all the time. Until you get void staff, mpen boots are easily the best, no other choice here.
The best item on ahri is DFG
I'm willing to try DFG out, but I'm skeptical on rushing it. When would you recommend putting it into the build?
On February 07 2012 14:36 Itsmedudeman wrote: I don't get why people rush dcap. It's an expensive ass item, and doesn't give you much versatility besides straight up ap. From my experiences, Rylai's is absolutely by far the best item on ahri. The slow works on all her spells including w and her ult and her q can hit multiple targets easily. You should be playing her for ganks and kills in solo queue, and the best item for that is rylais. Not only that but you can kite any hero with this and punish them back if they don't 100-0 you. When you start ulting in 1 on 1 you want that extra survivability early on.
And ryze does not counter ahri. Just because you can't kill him doesn't mean he's a counter. You can push lane easily against him and roam, but just cause you can't ult in and 100-0 him doesn't mean anything. He should never be able to catch you and kill you.
And wtf, cdr boots? Joke? Listen, early on your cds don't need to be refreshed for you to get kills, you want straight up burst. If it's solely for the ult, the ult cd is very short and not needed all the time. Until you get void staff, mpen boots are easily the best, no other choice here.
Rushing dcap is a choice I only make on her when I could get it really early, like 14-17 minutes early. A dcap at that point basically lets you 100-0 up to 3 people at once, assuming you have sorc boots and hit all your spells properly. Otherwise, wota first against a push/harass lane that you need to poke at before killing or rylais against anything that can kill you.
On February 07 2012 20:50 snpnx wrote: Very nice writeup, I'll be sure to practice those tips written, it's a whole other level than my measily play of Ahri. Especially pushing people to their towers seems very effective. If you don't mind, could you lose some words on playing vs. veigar? I'm normally going mercs against him to get out of the stun before his W hits, but maybe I'm just too careless against him? The times I lose lanes against him is if I get ganked and hit with a stun in that instance.
Mercs are good vs veigar then you go your normal build and when you're in danger of getting instagibbed and his stun lasts 3 seconds you might also want a qss (for those times where he flash stuns you). Veigar's the kind of champ you just want to push to turret and then go gank, too risky to try to burst him down in turret range and you can't really abuse his cooldowns when he has his ult up. Pre level 6 you can try to get closer to him and W him every time he uses a Q on a minion, if you can force a stun then he'll run out of mana pretty fast.
On February 07 2012 14:36 Itsmedudeman wrote: I don't get why people rush dcap. It's an expensive ass item, and doesn't give you much versatility besides straight up ap. From my experiences, Rylai's is absolutely by far the best item on ahri. The slow works on all her spells including w and her ult and her q can hit multiple targets easily. You should be playing her for ganks and kills in solo queue, and the best item for that is rylais. Not only that but you can kite any hero with this and punish them back if they don't 100-0 you. When you start ulting in 1 on 1 you want that extra survivability early on.
And ryze does not counter ahri. Just because you can't kill him doesn't mean he's a counter. You can push lane easily against him and roam, but just cause you can't ult in and 100-0 him doesn't mean anything. He should never be able to catch you and kill you.
And wtf, cdr boots? Joke? Listen, early on your cds don't need to be refreshed for you to get kills, you want straight up burst. If it's solely for the ult, the ult cd is very short and not needed all the time. Until you get void staff, mpen boots are easily the best, no other choice here.
I agree with your post entirely. Going Dcap doesn't provide the utility/tankiness that rylais does. I like to go boots -> 2 DR -> sorc boots -> rylais -> wota -> dcap/other endgame items.
Furthermore, CDR items shouldn't be bought as midlane AP because your jungler should ALWAYS give you blue buff, and you have far better items to pursue than CDR items.
On February 07 2012 14:36 Itsmedudeman wrote: I don't get why people rush dcap. It's an expensive ass item, and doesn't give you much versatility besides straight up ap. From my experiences, Rylai's is absolutely by far the best item on ahri. The slow works on all her spells including w and her ult and her q can hit multiple targets easily. You should be playing her for ganks and kills in solo queue, and the best item for that is rylais. Not only that but you can kite any hero with this and punish them back if they don't 100-0 you. When you start ulting in 1 on 1 you want that extra survivability early on.
And ryze does not counter ahri. Just because you can't kill him doesn't mean he's a counter. You can push lane easily against him and roam, but just cause you can't ult in and 100-0 him doesn't mean anything. He should never be able to catch you and kill you.
And wtf, cdr boots? Joke? Listen, early on your cds don't need to be refreshed for you to get kills, you want straight up burst. If it's solely for the ult, the ult cd is very short and not needed all the time. Until you get void staff, mpen boots are easily the best, no other choice here.
The best item on ahri is DFG
I'm willing to try DFG out, but I'm skeptical on rushing it. When would you recommend putting it into the build?
Depends on the hero you are facing , you will probably need 2-3(3 if u are depressed or need the hp) dorans for hp/ap mana so you can outpush heroes , get decent hp and kill caster mions .at lvl 7 with one Q. Kage's pick / tome / boots lvl 2 depending on what you need. Get dfg as soon as possible. If you get it at lvl 8-9 you have already won mid.
Basic combo -> go through the lane / r through creeps -> E -> DFG > W - Q ( Its very important that you do it in this order and that you do it fast enough ((might take some practise). THE MOST IMPORTANT thing when you do this combo is not to R 2nd time in such a direction that the returning ball misses out the target , this happens when taunt is lvl 1 or lvl 4 and they have mercury. I usually do this combo near the tower of they flash towards it instanly after the taunt so you can R once more towards them and ignite if needed or in most cases just have R twice for a safe retreat ( since you probably got the kill already ). The best part about dfg is that you kill ad / aps in the taunt and you can even fuck up a skill shot or two if u get juked and still kill the target. Basicly a more mobile / able to creep le blanc.
Quick demostration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czjGckpKFv0 The galio that i drop in the taunt has Mercury/chalise/Abyssal and GA ( on cd ) - I have dfg/raba and elixir.
I am pretty sleep deprived right now but i can update what to do vs each hero tomorrow if people show interest.
Quick notes helpful notes: Mercury vs ryze , le blanc , zilean Pick cleanese vs Xerath and i assume Brand ( nobody plays him ever on high elo ). You can bite xerath to E -> R you -> Cleanese dance around next 2 with your ultimate and destroy him ( Risky but pays off vs good players that dont do mistakes ) Versus Morgana , either play very aggresive before six if you know where the jungler is or just passively farm DFG instantly. If you are doing okey you will have boots + 5-6 pots bought + 1-2 wards + 1 doran + dfg on lvl 8 or 9. You can do the basic combo to him but make sure to dfg him while you cast your first dash to break the black shield.
The only hard match is galio imho , play defensive and dont die to leblanc and he will be useless past 1st drake.
p.s thanks for the warning , it was almost deserved as i just agreed with the posted i quouted but the part i changed.
On February 08 2012 11:10 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Lux WRECKS Ahri, not sure if anyone said it yet. Her range is too strong and her passive makes it impossible to trade with her, even with spellvamp.
She does? I never really had any problem with lux. Depending on 3 skillshots means that she is mostly helpless vs your combo with ult. And even if she has stronger harass pre-6 I can't see how it's different from any other ap.
On February 08 2012 11:10 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Lux WRECKS Ahri, not sure if anyone said it yet. Her range is too strong and her passive makes it impossible to trade with her, even with spellvamp.
Except that ahri can outpush lux or be equal , and she brings twice the skillset of lux in a battle. If u are getting q-ed by lux u are doing something majorly wrong.
I have no clue how to kill people as Ahri... I mean I get a BUNCH of assists. My last 5 games are [4-0-8] [9-9-9] [2-2-13] [9-2-7] [5-5-12] But I don't feel like a carry I'm just dealing moderate damage to a few people and pulling people into our group in team fights to pick off and get a bit of free damage but I literally have no idea how to kill people as Ahri, anyone have reps or vods that could help? My farm is usually always better than my opponents and I don't die to anything in my own lane, just missed Mia's and people feeding other team to the point that I don't even want to engage. I've tried various approaches super aggressive super passive poking til they engage but idk in my experience it doesn't seem this champion is actually capable of killing people.
This could be because I usually play Kass and Kennen. Anyone have help/tips. I've read everything and I didn't really pick up anything new, I just figure its the style of how I'm playing. I haven't seen anyone really good play Ahri so I have nothing to emulate.
On February 24 2012 08:51 D u o wrote: I have no clue how to kill people as Ahri... I mean I get a BUNCH of assists. My last 5 games are [4-0-8] [9-9-9] [2-2-13] [9-2-7] [5-5-12] But I don't feel like a carry I'm just dealing moderate damage to a few people and pulling people into our group in team fights to pick off and get a bit of free damage but I literally have no idea how to kill people as Ahri, anyone have reps or vods that could help? My farm is usually always better than my opponents and I don't die to anything in my own lane, just missed Mia's and people feeding other team to the point that I don't even want to engage. I've tried various approaches super aggressive super passive poking til they engage but idk in my experience it doesn't seem this champion is actually capable of killing people.
This could be because I usually play Kass and Kennen. Anyone have help/tips. I've read everything and I didn't really pick up anything new, I just figure its the style of how I'm playing. I haven't seen anyone really good play Ahri so I have nothing to emulate.
You should be able to guaranteed kill your lane opponent 1v1 at 6 unless it's like malzahar or something, after that its just a matter of shoving lane then going top or bot, or killing your lane again as soon as your ult is up. Assuming you hit your q and e, there arent many champs that won't die at that point 1v1, and you can even miss some stuff if you're ganking a lane. I'll try and get a few replays.
On February 24 2012 08:58 Thermia wrote: You should be able to guaranteed kill your lane opponent 1v1 at 6 unless it's like malzahar or something, after that its just a matter of shoving lane then going top or bot, or killing your lane again as soon as your ult is up. Assuming you hit your q and e, there arent many champs that won't die at that point 1v1, and you can even miss some stuff if you're ganking a lane. I'll try and get a few replays.
Reps would be super helpful. x__x I mean I don't lose 1v1's but I'm quite passive I think I don't TRY and engage I'm content farming because I get about 80-90% of the CS in the lane which is more than most people that I've played against. I recently played vs a leblanc and just got totally destroyed [9-9-9] game so I have no clue how to lane vs her. Maybe I'll just try and mix my play up a bit. I haven't tried ganking with her at all either and that might be my problem as well. Lots of my play consists of our team having a jungle and the opposite team not having a jungle so its quite odd to try and gank a 2v1 lane cause it just makes it even and they're usually really hurt and pushed back so it's quite annoying. x__x
On February 24 2012 08:58 Thermia wrote: You should be able to guaranteed kill your lane opponent 1v1 at 6 unless it's like malzahar or something, after that its just a matter of shoving lane then going top or bot, or killing your lane again as soon as your ult is up. Assuming you hit your q and e, there arent many champs that won't die at that point 1v1, and you can even miss some stuff if you're ganking a lane. I'll try and get a few replays.
Reps would be super helpful. x__x I mean I don't lose 1v1's but I'm quite passive I think I don't TRY and engage I'm content farming because I get about 80-90% of the CS in the lane which is more than most people that I've played against. I recently played vs a leblanc and just got totally destroyed [9-9-9] game so I have no clue how to lane vs her. Maybe I'll just try and mix my play up a bit. I haven't tried ganking with her at all either and that might be my problem as well. Lots of my play consists of our team having a jungle and the opposite team not having a jungle so its quite odd to try and gank a 2v1 lane cause it just makes it even and they're usually really hurt and pushed back so it's quite annoying. x__x
Anyways please just 1 or 2 reps would be nice.
As soon as I find one that doesn't crash (or maybe I'll just make a new one) I'll upload it and edit this post. But yeah, Ahri is a very capable assassin and you definitely aren't making the most of her abilities if you aren't finding someone to kill whenever your ult is up.
Edit: Here's a game I just played, could have played a bit better probably but ahri mirror is basically all about who hits their charm, got lots of kills though: http://www.mediafire.com/?afrw564a2hg46w0
On February 24 2012 08:58 Thermia wrote: You should be able to guaranteed kill your lane opponent 1v1 at 6 unless it's like malzahar or something, after that its just a matter of shoving lane then going top or bot, or killing your lane again as soon as your ult is up. Assuming you hit your q and e, there arent many champs that won't die at that point 1v1, and you can even miss some stuff if you're ganking a lane. I'll try and get a few replays.
Reps would be super helpful. x__x I mean I don't lose 1v1's but I'm quite passive I think I don't TRY and engage I'm content farming because I get about 80-90% of the CS in the lane which is more than most people that I've played against. I recently played vs a leblanc and just got totally destroyed [9-9-9] game so I have no clue how to lane vs her. Maybe I'll just try and mix my play up a bit. I haven't tried ganking with her at all either and that might be my problem as well. Lots of my play consists of our team having a jungle and the opposite team not having a jungle so its quite odd to try and gank a 2v1 lane cause it just makes it even and they're usually really hurt and pushed back so it's quite annoying. x__x
Anyways please just 1 or 2 reps would be nice.
I find Leblanc to be a very hard opponent when playing Ahri. Unless she gets shut down early, you won't be beating her 1 on 1. I just play passive and last hit with Q or auto attacks if it's safe. I guess if you want to fight, hitting your E and bursting her down is your only chance, since LB will most likely kill you instantly as soon as she's not CCd.
I've recently realized that rushing abyssal scepter is great for ahri, and found this out from Froggen's stream in which he often does this with her. It gives you good MR against other AP mids during laning phase, and the MR reduction boosts your damage significantly. It's also a lot cheaper than rylais/RDC.
On February 25 2012 02:48 spacemonkey4eve wrote: I've recently realized that rushing abyssal scepter is great for ahri, and found this out from Froggen's stream in which he often does this with her. It gives you good MR against other AP mids during laning phase, and the MR reduction boosts your damage significantly. It's also a lot cheaper than rylais/RDC.
It's harder cheaper than rylais at all, and only 950 cheaper than a dcap.
On February 25 2012 02:48 spacemonkey4eve wrote: I've recently realized that rushing abyssal scepter is great for ahri, and found this out from Froggen's stream in which he often does this with her. It gives you good MR against other AP mids during laning phase, and the MR reduction boosts your damage significantly. It's also a lot cheaper than rylais/RDC.
It's harder cheaper than rylais at all, and only 950 cheaper than a dcap.
Say you and your opponent are csing equally well and rush Abyssal/Deathcap respectively. You complete Abyssal first and now have an extra 70 AP 57 Mres and what is effectively 20 MPen. What does your opponent have? 120 AP from Large Rod and Blasting Wand. Do you think your opponent is going to trade well in this situation with his Large Wand? Ignoring external influences (ganks, etc) the gold disparity is only going to increase in your favour. Against Rylai's you can make an argument based on utility but there's really no reason to ever rush Deathcap on Ahri (or any AP for that matter with the exception of perhaps Lux).
On February 25 2012 02:48 spacemonkey4eve wrote: I've recently realized that rushing abyssal scepter is great for ahri, and found this out from Froggen's stream in which he often does this with her. It gives you good MR against other AP mids during laning phase, and the MR reduction boosts your damage significantly. It's also a lot cheaper than rylais/RDC.
It's harder cheaper than rylais at all, and only 950 cheaper than a dcap.
Only 950? I don't think you understand how big that is
and yeah, it's really good when you consider ahri doesn't scale that well with ap, so the mr reduction is pretty big, and mr resist is always good. I'd say get this against any difficult mid opponents with lots of dmg like leblanc, but otherwise you can't really go wrong with wota first.
On February 25 2012 02:48 spacemonkey4eve wrote: I've recently realized that rushing abyssal scepter is great for ahri, and found this out from Froggen's stream in which he often does this with her. It gives you good MR against other AP mids during laning phase, and the MR reduction boosts your damage significantly. It's also a lot cheaper than rylais/RDC.
It's harder cheaper than rylais at all, and only 950 cheaper than a dcap.
rylais= 3105 abyssal= 2650
15% cheaper is not what I'd call hardly cheaper... and as others have mentioned, dcap doesn't provide utility/defense and ahri's AP scaling is shit. My current item build:
On February 25 2012 02:48 spacemonkey4eve wrote: I've recently realized that rushing abyssal scepter is great for ahri, and found this out from Froggen's stream in which he often does this with her. It gives you good MR against other AP mids during laning phase, and the MR reduction boosts your damage significantly. It's also a lot cheaper than rylais/RDC.
On February 25 2012 02:48 spacemonkey4eve wrote: I've recently realized that rushing abyssal scepter is great for ahri, and found this out from Froggen's stream in which he often does this with her. It gives you good MR against other AP mids during laning phase, and the MR reduction boosts your damage significantly. It's also a lot cheaper than rylais/RDC.
It's harder cheaper than rylais at all, and only 950 cheaper than a dcap.
Say you and your opponent are csing equally well and rush Abyssal/Deathcap respectively. You complete Abyssal first and now have an extra 70 AP 57 Mres and what is effectively 20 MPen. What does your opponent have? 120 AP from Large Rod and Blasting Wand. Do you think your opponent is going to trade well in this situation with his Large Wand? Ignoring external influences (ganks, etc) the gold disparity is only going to increase in your favour. Against Rylai's you can make an argument based on utility but there's really no reason to ever rush Deathcap on Ahri (or any AP for that matter with the exception of perhaps Lux).
I never said I rushed either of those two items. I don't rush deathcap unless I'm up significantly on my opponent already. I was just comparing them in general. Personally the only time I get deathcap as a first item is if I can get it before 16-17 minutes, because then you can Q people for almost half their health. The only heroes I would get a fast abyssal against (actually I would probably just get the MR and a wota for ~300g? more) would be the ones that can outburst me while stoppping me from escaping, which is basically just leblanc and maybe a couple others. Assuming you get sorc boots and have mpen runes, most of the aura is going to waste early game anyway, so for 1050g you aren't getting very much.
Even if you have a lead early dcap is just dumb. Again, she scales really bad with AP, and I could find it but someone did the math and it turns out abyssal is a very efficient dps item compared to deathcap and gives MR and team fight utility.
Weird, I was under the impression that a 2.7 ult ratio was pretty high. Her 1v1 ratios aren't as high as many aps, but her damage in teamfights is just ridiculous, and doing half true damage with q makes the effective ratio significantly higher. Maybe it's a playstyle thing, but being able to run into, say, bottom lane at 15-16 minutes and oneshot the ad carry and support by yourself under their tower is how I use early dcap. I never said abyssal is straight up bad, although early game I would much rather have the wota + negatrons for the sustain and aura over abyssals nearly useless (at that point) -mres aura.
On February 25 2012 05:01 Thermia wrote: Weird, I was under the impression that a 2.7 ult ratio was pretty high. Her 1v1 ratios aren't as high as many aps, but her damage in teamfights is just ridiculous, and doing half true damage with q makes the effective ratio significantly higher. Maybe it's a playstyle thing, but being able to run into, say, bottom lane at 15-16 minutes and oneshot the ad carry and support by yourself under their tower is how I use early dcap. I never said abyssal is straight up bad, although early game I would much rather have the wota + negatrons for the sustain and aura over abyssals nearly useless (at that point) -mres aura.
Her ratios would be fine if they didnt mean that to get the most out of them she has to be right in the middle of an enemy team. Defensive items are good on her the same way defensive items are good on a melee dps.
On February 25 2012 05:01 Thermia wrote: Weird, I was under the impression that a 2.7 ult ratio was pretty high. Her 1v1 ratios aren't as high as many aps, but her damage in teamfights is just ridiculous, and doing half true damage with q makes the effective ratio significantly higher. Maybe it's a playstyle thing, but being able to run into, say, bottom lane at 15-16 minutes and oneshot the ad carry and support by yourself under their tower is how I use early dcap. I never said abyssal is straight up bad, although early game I would much rather have the wota + negatrons for the sustain and aura over abyssals nearly useless (at that point) -mres aura.
Her ratios would be fine if they didnt mean that to get the most out of them she has to be right in the middle of an enemy team. Defensive items are good on her the same way defensive items are good on a melee dps.
Fortunately, her ult gives her the tools to do that; along with massive poke damage/range on q and the chance to catch someone with e.
On February 25 2012 05:09 Itsmedudeman wrote: Wota is good, but abyssal gives more damage. No point comparing the two as they're situational, the comparison should be between dcap and abyssal.
Why is there no point comparing the two? I'm saying that I think for early game, wota + negatrons is a comparable cost pair of items to abyssal that will give you more defense/sustain and extremely similar damage, and this is what I usually build. However, there is no reason to get a full abyssal this early unless the other team already has mres on a few heroes, which is unlikely but can happen, in which case, there is no reason not to finish the abyssal. Rushing dcap is very situational as well, and it only makes sense to do it if you are significantly ahead and they have no mr, which is likely if you can get it quickly enough. Being able to instantly kill 3 people on the other team during an early dragon is huge.
Edit: Another thing is that all items you get after the dcap provide 30% more ap instantly; there's no waiting to finish it after that, so it makes your following item pickups a lot stronger much faster, and allows you to snowball even easier.
On February 25 2012 05:01 Thermia wrote: Weird, I was under the impression that a 2.7 ult ratio was pretty high. Her 1v1 ratios aren't as high as many aps, but her damage in teamfights is just ridiculous, and doing half true damage with q makes the effective ratio significantly higher. Maybe it's a playstyle thing, but being able to run into, say, bottom lane at 15-16 minutes and oneshot the ad carry and support by yourself under their tower is how I use early dcap. I never said abyssal is straight up bad, although early game I would much rather have the wota + negatrons for the sustain and aura over abyssals nearly useless (at that point) -mres aura.
Her ratios would be fine if they didnt mean that to get the most out of them she has to be right in the middle of an enemy team. Defensive items are good on her the same way defensive items are good on a melee dps.
Fortunately, her ult gives her the tools to do that; along with massive poke damage/range on q and the chance to catch someone with e.
Thats the point. To get the maximum amount of damage out of your ult you need to go INTO the enemy team and dance around in there. Her kit is predicated around being in the enemy team's face to maximize your damage.
Which is why defensive items on her are very good.
On February 25 2012 05:09 Itsmedudeman wrote: Wota is good, but abyssal gives more damage. No point comparing the two as they're situational, the comparison should be between dcap and abyssal.
Why is there no point comparing the two? I'm saying that I think for early game, wota + negatrons is a comparable cost pair of items to abyssal that will give you more defense/sustain and extremely similar damage, and this is what I usually build. However, there is no reason to get a full abyssal this early unless the other team already has mres on a few heroes, which is unlikely but can happen, in which case, there is no reason not to finish the abyssal. Rushing dcap is very situational as well, and it only makes sense to do it if you are significantly ahead and they have no mr, which is likely if you can get it quickly enough. Being able to instantly kill 3 people on the other team during an early dragon is huge.
Edit: Another thing is that all items you get after the dcap provide 30% more ap instantly; there's no waiting to finish it after that, so it makes your following item pickups a lot stronger much faster, and allows you to snowball even easier.
What? Wota and abyssal are COMPLETELY different items. Killing potential vs. sustain. And again, 20 mpen is still good and comparable to dcap even with sorc boots and mpen runes. You provide this aura to everyone on your team so your killing potential is increased that much more. It's not extremely similar damage at all.
On February 25 2012 05:19 Woony wrote: Do you guys get WotA when you're the only AP on your team?
A lot of guys have been delaying their wota after revolver after the wota nerf, but now that revolver's spellvamp got nerfed too, wouldn't finishing the wota be good now since it provides a pretty big spell vamp boost?
On February 25 2012 05:09 Itsmedudeman wrote: Wota is good, but abyssal gives more damage. No point comparing the two as they're situational, the comparison should be between dcap and abyssal.
Why is there no point comparing the two? I'm saying that I think for early game, wota + negatrons is a comparable cost pair of items to abyssal that will give you more defense/sustain and extremely similar damage, and this is what I usually build. However, there is no reason to get a full abyssal this early unless the other team already has mres on a few heroes, which is unlikely but can happen, in which case, there is no reason not to finish the abyssal. Rushing dcap is very situational as well, and it only makes sense to do it if you are significantly ahead and they have no mr, which is likely if you can get it quickly enough. Being able to instantly kill 3 people on the other team during an early dragon is huge.
Edit: Another thing is that all items you get after the dcap provide 30% more ap instantly; there's no waiting to finish it after that, so it makes your following item pickups a lot stronger much faster, and allows you to snowball even easier.
What? Wota and abyssal are COMPLETELY different items. Killing potential vs. sustain. And again, 20 mpen is still good and comparable to dcap even with sorc boots and mpen runes. You provide this aura to everyone on your team so your killing potential is increased that much more. It's not extremely similar damage at all.
I said wota + negatrons, as the combination is similar in cost and function to abyssal. Please read closer. Abyssal is not just a "killing potential" item, it is defense + some killing potential hybrid item. Assuming ~30 base mres, which is fairly average afaik, you are already reducing an opponent down to 1.5 mres with just mpen reds and sorc boots. Abyssal's aura is nearly completely wasted, you get a whopping -1.5 mres on those targets. Now, if you were running double AP, the aura would be significantly more useful, but then again the enemy would be much more likely to get earlier mres anyway so you'd be getting it fast anyway under my priorities (although wota would be doubly useful as well, especially if you're stacking two of them). Since you personally aren't getting any use out of the aura (and as AP mid, you will probably be the majority of your team's magic damage) and it won't be nearly as effective for the remaining mostly physical damage, it just doesn't make sense to me to rush it as a first item unless there are a few conditions being met.
I ignored the negatrons because I ignored the comparison of the +57 mres. Thought this was pretty easy to understand as they're both negated and I never compared that function. Also, how often are you able to run double wota? Double ap mid and top is not that common at all. And you're still wrong, even at low mr the dmg you gain from 20 more mpen is significant, and you can even skip sorc boots to rush an abyssal as well. And most games there will typically be several players who go for mres.
The extra 20 mpen on Abyss negates anyone who runs mres blues, and is enough to take care of the natural mres that some champs gain (this is at a time where typically only their top will have any extra mres built, if at all)
I think you should build what helps you most. If you take too much damage from the enemy AP carry you should build MR. If you're kicking ass and need some AP to reach some breakpoints like one shotting creeps you should get that instead. Personally I like abyssal. It isn't glass cannony.
It's also one of things I hate about playing AD carry. As AD carry, your DPS is almost entirely reliant on building pure damage items. If ryze is oneshotting you, then building a wits end, or hexdrinker takes up a slot in your inventory so you have to sell it come late game. If you build a negatron you decrease your overall dps by a large amount. Never even considered building health.
The CDR boots are a legacy from her release when the CD on Ult was something ridiculous like 60 or 70 sec. As for the follow up items it's simply a list of possibilities and not an actual build. Apart from the choice of Morellos I don't see anything wrong with it, although I believe Abyssal and Zhonya's are very viable as well.
cdr boots were never good on ahri in the same way morellos was never good on her. And you can definitely go very, very, very wrong with dcap first. Dcap is the most unsafe first item in the game.
Hmm, I don't see how abyssal or dcap first are worth it all. You are ignoring her kit completely for mid game, which is where Ahri shines. I play her as a sustained assassin and I do pretty well at my Elo.
I don't think anyone here has been denying that DCap first is a good move. Abyssal vs Rylai's just comes down to the situation. I don't see how Abyssal first is "ignoring her kit completely for mid game" at all, Abyssal brings just as much utility to the table as Rylai's with it's MPen aura and MRes, not to mention you have a better chance of completing it before the first dragon fight.
On February 27 2012 12:24 D u o wrote: How do I lane vs malz any time if I back off for any reason he just zones me and puts his DOT on me.
More practice I guess? Hard for a malz to zone you since his dot is low range. Auto the creepwave so you don't get outpushed so easily. You can go and get close to him as soon as he uses his dot on the creeps to harass him with q and w (if you have ever played ryze vs malz it plays out similarly). After you get to level 6, ult immediately if he uses his wall vs the creep wave. If not, you can wait patiently for your jungler since malz is easy to gank. Your harass is better because of range as well.
Typically I just end up autoing/Qing the creep wave while he pushes on his own and I wait for an opening to harass him/ult him. Malz that tries to zone is a sweet target for a jungler.
so i've started playing a bit of league with my friends, and i recently hit level 20 and have a couple of runes, not the full set. the first champion i decided to buy was ahri, because she was the first one on the list lol.
anyway, i'd like to ask a few questions!
what's the goal when you're in mid-lane? i usually focus on just last hitting, and trying to hit my Q on the enemy champion. eventually i want to force him to b, so that i can b as well, or try to help out a gank.
in team fights, i usually try to stay on the outer edge, trying to land my Q,W while using E to try and separate targets, while saving my R to chase or run. do i have the right idea?
i'm also having trouble against malzahar.. is the point to just keep up during levels 1-5, then when your ult is up just use it as many times as you can?
On February 28 2012 15:17 imperfect wrote: so i've started playing a bit of league with my friends, and i recently hit level 20 and have a couple of runes, not the full set. the first champion i decided to buy was ahri, because she was the first one on the list lol.
anyway, i'd like to ask a few questions!
what's the goal when you're in mid-lane? i usually focus on just last hitting, and trying to hit my Q on the enemy champion. eventually i want to force him to b, so that i can b as well, or try to help out a gank.
in team fights, i usually try to stay on the outer edge, trying to land my Q,W while using E to try and separate targets, while saving my R to chase or run. do i have the right idea?
i'm also having trouble against malzahar.. is the point to just keep up during levels 1-5, then when your ult is up just use it as many times as you can?
Your questions have some really broad answers. Your goals in mid-lane depend on everything ranging from the enemy's mid-laner to your (and their) overall team strategy. For example, pushing your lane and creating opportunities to gank your other lanes isn't as good when your team already has a stronger earlygame. Punishing weaker laners with aggression and zoning is riskier against some junglers than others. If you want to keep it simple, focus on their mid laner, their jungler and your own jungler. I mentioned that ahri should rape morgana but sometimes you just have to bend over and trade farm until you spend money on wards because their shaco has much bigger pressure in lane than your amumu. Knowing which laners you can punish, how and when comes from experience, also factor in both jungler's ganking power. Some champions you punish by pushing the wave to their turret because their spells cost too much early on or they rely on single target nukes or they don't have nukes at all but damage over time, but then if your (or their) jungler is a lee sin or a shaco or someone that wants early kills then you may not want to push to turret. Some other champions push well but are vulnerable to harass, because their aoe is a skillshot or it has a low radius, or their cc is a skillshot, etc. so you can usually resort to keeping the lane static and zoning them. But sometimes your jungler needs blue while theirs doesn't so you will end up using your own skills on the creep wave to avoid losing gold to your turret and prevent them from roaming. The advantage of ahri is that she is a monster in every stage of the game and you can trade farm with most (probably all) mid-laners and still go toe-to-toe lategame with them, or you can be aggressive early on and try to win the lane if the junglers allow it.
Teamfighting also deserves a thread of its own, people in this thread have posted their own builds which go with their own teamfighting style. Honestly I don't think they're wrong in playing ahri that way because many things work and there's no single best way. My style usually (ideally) revolves around poking and peeling from relatively safe distances while waiting for the enemy's formation to break apart and reveal one of their carries (usually the ad), then I immediately ult to her side and cc her and burst her down. Some people will go for more defensive items and dance in the middle of the enemy team aoe'ing it all and that's ok but it's not my style. This is also something that's so good about ahri because of her flexibility.
About malz, you have to be more specific as I never really have problems with them. Keep up with what? His harass? His pushing? You shouldn't get outpushed so terribly if you auto the creep wave as soon as he starts using the dot on it and occasionally using your Q on it as well. Usually malz players use their shit on the creep wave then go back to turret. Those who stay near the creep wave are vulnerable to harass because you outrange them and your w is easier to hit than his wall; and are vulnerable to ganks since they have no defense vs junglers other than trying to burst one of you down. But mostly you will be trading farm with malz since he can force that vs any champion. Abusing your ult is risky and you must time it well. Sometimes him using his dot on the creepwave is not enough if you can't land your e easily after the first cast of your ultimate. If he uses his wall or pool to farm then he is dead meat if he isn't at turret range. But you're gonna have to be a bit more specific. Malz isn't a hard lane, he's just hard to kill.
On February 28 2012 15:17 imperfect wrote: so i've started playing a bit of league with my friends, and i recently hit level 20 and have a couple of runes, not the full set. the first champion i decided to buy was ahri, because she was the first one on the list lol.
anyway, i'd like to ask a few questions!
what's the goal when you're in mid-lane? i usually focus on just last hitting, and trying to hit my Q on the enemy champion. eventually i want to force him to b, so that i can b as well, or try to help out a gank.
in team fights, i usually try to stay on the outer edge, trying to land my Q,W while using E to try and separate targets, while saving my R to chase or run. do i have the right idea?
i'm also having trouble against malzahar.. is the point to just keep up during levels 1-5, then when your ult is up just use it as many times as you can?
Your questions have some really broad answers. Your goals in mid-lane depend on everything ranging from the enemy's mid-laner to your (and their) overall team strategy. For example, pushing your lane and creating opportunities to gank your other lanes isn't as good when your team already has a stronger earlygame. Punishing weaker laners with aggression and zoning is riskier against some junglers than others. If you want to keep it simple, focus on their mid laner, their jungler and your own jungler. I mentioned that ahri should rape morgana but sometimes you just have to bend over and trade farm until you spend money on wards because their shaco has much bigger pressure in lane than your amumu. Knowing which laners you can punish, how and when comes from experience, also factor in both jungler's ganking power. Some champions you punish by pushing the wave to their turret because their spells cost too much early on or they rely on single target nukes or they don't have nukes at all but damage over time, but then if your (or their) jungler is a lee sin or a shaco or someone that wants early kills then you may not want to push to turret. Some other champions push well but are vulnerable to harass, because their aoe is a skillshot or it has a low radius, or their cc is a skillshot, etc. so you can usually resort to keeping the lane static and zoning them. But sometimes your jungler needs blue while theirs doesn't so you will end up using your own skills on the creep wave to avoid losing gold to your turret and prevent them from roaming. The advantage of ahri is that she is a monster in every stage of the game and you can trade farm with most (probably all) mid-laners and still go toe-to-toe lategame with them, or you can be aggressive early on and try to win the lane if the junglers allow it.
Teamfighting also deserves a thread of its own, people in this thread have posted their own builds which go with their own teamfighting style. Honestly I don't think they're wrong in playing ahri that way because many things work and there's no single best way. My style usually (ideally) revolves around poking and peeling from relatively safe distances while waiting for the enemy's formation to break apart and reveal one of their carries (usually the ad), then I immediately ult to her side and cc her and burst her down. Some people will go for more defensive items and dance in the middle of the enemy team aoe'ing it all and that's ok but it's not my style. This is also something that's so good about ahri because of her flexibility.
About malz, you have to be more specific as I never really have problems with them. Keep up with what? His harass? His pushing? You shouldn't get outpushed so terribly if you auto the creep wave as soon as he starts using the dot on it and occasionally using your Q on it as well. Usually malz players use their shit on the creep wave then go back to turret. Those who stay near the creep wave are vulnerable to harass because you outrange them and your w is easier to hit than his wall; and are vulnerable to ganks since they have no defense vs junglers other than trying to burst one of you down. But mostly you will be trading farm with malz since he can force that vs any champion. Abusing your ult is risky and you must time it well. Sometimes him using his dot on the creepwave is not enough if you can't land your e easily after the first cast of your ultimate. If he uses his wall or pool to farm then he is dead meat if he isn't at turret range. But you're gonna have to be a bit more specific. Malz isn't a hard lane, he's just hard to kill.
Very good post. Most of this is what you know instinctively but putting it to words is sometimes quite hard. I think much of this info is generally applicable, not only related to Ahri but any champion and play in LoL
I really dislike what seems to be the most common ways to build Ahri. Everyone loves going WotA or RoA and I don't understand why. I really find the 2 dorans ->DCap ->Rylas -> Void Staff build path to be far supeior. WotA/Rylais gives less damage and more sustain and kiting, which i really find she doesn't need so early. She has long range on all her spells and is hard to get a hold off so WotA, while a good choice maybe in some cases, I find to not usually be a good choice. She can burst so hard with DCap, and then Rylais allows her to kite. And it's not like farming with Ahri is a chore.
On March 09 2012 13:50 Bladeorade wrote: I really dislike what seems to be the most common ways to build Ahri. Everyone loves going WotA or RoA and I don't understand why. I really find the 2 dorans ->DCap ->Rylas -> Void Staff build path to be far supeior. WotA/Rylais gives less damage and more sustain and kiting, which i really find she doesn't need so early. She has long range on all her spells and is hard to get a hold off so WotA, while a good choice maybe in some cases, I find to not usually be a good choice. She can burst so hard with DCap, and then Rylais allows her to kite. And it's not like farming with Ahri is a chore.
I always thought it should have been Doran -> Revolver -> Boots -> Rylai -> DCap -> Void Staff -> A protection item
Not sure how I can build DCap right after two doran, to be honest.
Hint: Korean full names are always written in three syllables: Lee Jae Dong, Kim Taek Yong. Akiyama Shinichi would be japanese for example. (props for everyone who gets the reference.)
On March 09 2012 13:50 Bladeorade wrote: I really dislike what seems to be the most common ways to build Ahri. Everyone loves going WotA or RoA and I don't understand why. I really find the 2 dorans ->DCap ->Rylas -> Void Staff build path to be far supeior. WotA/Rylais gives less damage and more sustain and kiting, which i really find she doesn't need so early. She has long range on all her spells and is hard to get a hold off so WotA, while a good choice maybe in some cases, I find to not usually be a good choice. She can burst so hard with DCap, and then Rylais allows her to kite. And it's not like farming with Ahri is a chore.
I always thought it should have been Doran -> Revolver -> Boots -> Rylai -> DCap -> Void Staff -> A protection item
Not sure how I can build DCap right after two doran, to be honest.
Dorans Revolver and Rylais seems like way too much survivability... she can kite so easily to begin with I dont see the need to rush rylias, and I don't find WotA particularly worth it.
IDK though I am only 1500 68% w/l with Ahri so not great. I just find I don't do enough damage going WotA-> Rylais, and dorans ->WotA -> Rylais delays heavy damage even longer.
I really like 2x Dorans -> Sorcs -> DC -> Rylais -> Void Staff and then usually Zhonyas and finish up with BVeil normally, QSS in some games.
Thank you for this guide. Bought Ahri some time ago, but she just did not feel right for me. Started practicing her as my main AP, and i am now 13/3 in ranked games. She is so fun, and works so well as a pub stomper. Punishes for bad play so harsh. And for a bad player like me, her ult is priceless. Cant catch that fox.
So Ahri has seen a lot of play lately and it got me thinking. Riot's been ''tweaking'' (read: nerfing) her for a while now and they have yet to successfully remove the amount of picks she sees in high level play. I really think that her numbers aren't the real issue, it's just that her laning is absurdly strong if you double up a creepwave pre 6 and kill your enemy laner or at LEAST force him out of lane, and while she's able to put out LeBlanc-esque burst, she scales really hard into late game because of her relatively reliable hard CC, true damabe, absurd burst and sustained DPS and the ability to kite really well. Her kit is just sooooo freaking good, I don't think tweaking her numbers will do all that much. I hope they don't remake her though, she's LOADS of fun to play, like Ziggs/Orianna levels of fun.
I'm a little confused as to why everybody is going rylai's, WotA, death cap.
I feel getting 2x dorans, Sorc shoes, Deathcap, Lichbanes is very strong. I get Rylai's, WotA, Voidstaff/whatever after but I feel Hat and Lichbanes should be the core in any game where you have any kind of advantage.
W is on such a short CD you can keep procing lichbanes every 2 seconds. Your base attack damage is actually fairly high so sheen isn't as much of a waste as one might think.
Once you get Lichbanes you're able to split push any team not running a TF or Kass, and it makes your 1v1 burst to be stronger than with Rylai's. You shouldn't have to rely on Rylai's slow to secure kills, as you should be going for kills with ultimate, flash, and ignite off cd. This also allows your damage to be spread fairly evenly across Physical, Magical, and True damage so your damage can't be completely mitigated by just one type of resistance. I'm just not convinced the health and utility of Rylai's is worth it when you can add an extra 1000 damage when you use all your cd's and weave in auto attacks. This build allows Ahri to out damage the opponents and take down turrets like a boss.
TL;DR Try out 2x Dorans, Hat, Lichbanes build. You're going to do more damage and play the anti-carry role better than a WotA, Rylai's build.
Basically, she deals a fuckton of damage with Rylai's and WotA, and while she would deal even more damage with DC+Lichbane, she'd drop like a fly once her ult is down. Both Rylai's and WotA are REALLY good in teamfights and offer just a lot more utility than other items, sans maybe Abyssal. With Ahri, it's a little bit like with Cassio: you want as much damage as needed while grabbing as much survivability and utility as possible on the way.
Also, I don't exactly understand why you'd ever have your AP splitpush, except it's TF or maybe Galio with TP.
Her kit forces her into semi-vulnerable positions to unleash her potential. This means you have to build some survivability/sustain to not be forced back/die easily so you can use multiple spell rotations. Yes, lich+cap does more damage in a single rotation. But wota+rylais allows you to get multiple rotations off easier/safer. therefore increasing your damage over the course of a fight.
She has long range spells and hard cc. I'm really skeptic about needing to build survivability, with some exceptions, depending (mostly) on the enemy ap.
lol i just saw your post cloud a page back; thanks, it definitely helps a lot
a lot of it seems to make sense, probably because i've played more. i dont have specific problems with malz which is good haha
but any thoughts on kassadin? i seem to having a hard time against him with all his teleport and silence. i've had to rely on my jungler giving me ganks to pick off kills in the few times i've played against him; which i don't really mind since league is a team game after all, but when i played a kass with shaco as their jungler that was a nightmarish game for me
If your AP can single handedly take out a tower in 10-15 seconds, and is as slippery as a Shaco why not have her split push?
for 2k extra gold you get 135 more ap (not including death cap/masteries to masteries/runes), and a 400 physical damage (about the amount of AP I have at this stage of the game) proc every 2 seconds, the movement speed to be able to connect with the auto's and back off before you get completely blown up, a little MR, 350 mana, 500 less health and no slow or 20% spell vamp.
I only suggest going this route when you're completely dominating the lane. You have to have a large lead to justify the extra 2k spent on damage, but if you're ahead get further ahead. If you're unable to gank the side lanes, and they're getting scarey, dont use this build, get the extra survivability. There is a lapse in power after you have hat but before you finish lichbanes, this time is best spent farming minions over champions. Once you have the hat and lichbanes, there aren't many champions that can survive after they get hit by an e, ignite, auto, w, q, auto and you didn't even get to use the ult auto auto ult auto auto ult auto auto.
This build trys to 100-0 guys in a single rotation effectively ending the fight before you need to worry about a second set of cd's. With 190 ap from Rylai's and WotA and 2 d-rings a q is doing 405 damage and w is doing max 465 e is at 250 and r is doing 711 max. Compared to 325 AP from Hat and lichbanes q is doing 495 and w is going to do max of 567 e is at 293 and r is 832 plus you get these 325 procs.
You're not going to get the same damage from 3 w's 2 q's an e and an R with rylai's and WotA (3,166) as you would from one q w e and the full r with only 3 lichbane procs (3,262) instead of the potential 6 procs (4,237).
As for dying when ult is down look at a weqw combo with 2 procs (2,572 damage, with no ult or ignite) It's a pretty decent chunk, and could potentially 100-0 somebody.
In teamfights it's not easy to put all of that damage onto 1 target. Plus I highly doubt you will get more than 2 lichbane procs from your autos during a 5v5, especially without the slow from the rylais, and more than likely if you're in auto attack range you'll probably be focus fired/cc'ed to death.
If you look at most pro AP players (jiji/regi/froggen etc) play ahri they ALWAYS go wota ryalis (or abyssal in a few cases) as their first 2 items. Even when you're fed and haev the extra gold for deathcap, I don't see why you would forego the utility/sustain for some extra AP on a champ with horrible AP ratios
Here's a link to Regi playing Ahri with Mejai's and Hat. Don't piss on my back and tell me its raining with this ALWAYS go wota rylai's crap.
Edit: It's probably the pro teams are running a dual WotA comp, which is why they don't deviate from the game plan before the match. Makes even more sense considering you're saying abyssal scepter as a 2nd item.
On March 22 2012 02:52 Sabin010 wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KVlEjWCaog&feature=related Here's a link to Regi playing Ahri with Mejai's and Hat. Don't piss on my back and tell me its raining with this ALWAYS go wota rylai's crap.
Edit: It's probably the pro teams are running a dual WotA comp, which is why they don't deviate from the game plan before the match. Makes even more sense considering you're saying abyssal scepter as a 2nd item.
lol are you really taking his build seriously? there's a difference between troll and competitive builds, and when I was referencing the pro players, I was refering to their play during scrims/actual tourneys and not some soloQ troll build. Compare his build with that during yesterday's scrim vs 4NOT/dan dinh, where he builds wota straight away followed by rylais although you are right in that they were running dual AP solos. So rushing wota was even more beneficial in that regard.
If you can link me to a scrim/tourney game where the ahri player goes deathcap first, I will forever hang my head in shame
On March 22 2012 01:45 imperfect wrote: lol i just saw your post cloud a page back; thanks, it definitely helps a lot
a lot of it seems to make sense, probably because i've played more. i dont have specific problems with malz which is good haha
but any thoughts on kassadin? i seem to having a hard time against him with all his teleport and silence. i've had to rely on my jungler giving me ganks to pick off kills in the few times i've played against him; which i don't really mind since league is a team game after all, but when i played a kass with shaco as their jungler that was a nightmarish game for me
Kass: Extremely weak levels 1-5, use W (get it at level one and level it up over Q for the first 6 levels) and autoattack to harass him into oblivion. After level 6 he becomes an unkillable pain in the ass but by this time you are levelling Q to clear waves faster than him and are sufficiently ahead of him so he isn't really looking forward to trading hits with you. After level 6, start levelling Q and focus on clearing waves and ganking other lanes. Using W and autos instead of Q early on will also help in keeping the lane static.
In this game from IEM M runs Ahri AD... They almost beat CLG with it too. How is my build not viable, if AD Ahri with just Wriggles and Dblade for sustain is viable at the highest level? I think you should at least try the lichbanes build before you dismiss it as a troll/ineffective build.
You don't want your AP to splitpush because he is, in the vast majority of cases, the biggest asset trying to hold 4v5. I'm not saying your build isn't viable, all I'm saying is it's not optimal.
I mean yeah, if you dominate your lane enough to 100-0 everyone on the map, sure, why not. If you're a competent player, you will probably win those games regardless of your build. If you are going about even, though, this is not an optimal or safe build to use in my opinion.
So with the somewhat recent WoTA sustain nerf, would you guys still take wota in a non-double wota comp? I'm considering just grabbing a revolver and rushing rylai's from there. The extra gold just doesn't seem worth it, especially with Ahri's passive vamp on top of the revolver.
On an unrelated note: great job with this guide. One of the best and most comprehensive on TL! Are all the matchup sections still current though?
On April 16 2012 23:12 Perplex wrote: So with the somewhat recent WoTA sustain nerf, would you guys still take wota in a non-double wota comp? I'm considering just grabbing a revolver and rushing rylai's from there. The extra gold just doesn't seem worth it, especially with Ahri's passive vamp on top of the revolver.
On an unrelated note: great job with this guide. One of the best and most comprehensive on TL! Are all the matchup sections still current though?
I wouldn't, then again I didn't before either. I'd much rather run a revolver + blasting wand instead of WoTA almost always. If you were to die, the extra sustain from the WoTA wouldn't have saved you anyway, the extra AP from the wand will help you burst down enemies much easier though. You barely even need the revolver if you just use the passive carefully. My playstyle is kinda passive though, I just wait for mistakes.
On March 22 2012 02:52 Sabin010 wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KVlEjWCaog&feature=related Here's a link to Regi playing Ahri with Mejai's and Hat. Don't piss on my back and tell me its raining with this ALWAYS go wota rylai's crap.
Edit: It's probably the pro teams are running a dual WotA comp, which is why they don't deviate from the game plan before the match. Makes even more sense considering you're saying abyssal scepter as a 2nd item.
lol are you really taking his build seriously? there's a difference between troll and competitive builds, and when I was referencing the pro players, I was refering to their play during scrims/actual tourneys and not some soloQ troll build. Compare his build with that during yesterday's scrim vs 4NOT/dan dinh, where he builds wota straight away followed by rylais although you are right in that they were running dual AP solos. So rushing wota was even more beneficial in that regard.
If you can link me to a scrim/tourney game where the ahri player goes deathcap first, I will forever hang my head in shame
I did well against xpeke's sion by rushing Dcap. Especially after I was constantly denied blue.
IMO Rylais gimps too much damage, you're better off getting abyssal since the only thing you should be worried about is getting cc'd and bursted by the enemy AP during your early-mid game phase.
kennen bullshit champ. gets raped 0-3 and comes into team fight and press R.
So considering the buff to her AP ratios and all, I've been thinking about how to build Ahri. My current build depends on a couple of variables, but usually I've been going:
Boots 3 Pots -> 1 Doran's -> Kage's lucky pick. I have found that the GP10 is nice because I usually get DFG relatively late, unless the enemy AD Carry is fed in which case I rush it.
After that, it's usually Rylai's -> Deathcap -> DFG -> WotA. In case I have problems laning or they run double AP, I rush Abyssal before Rylai's. If our team has a second AP, I rush WotA. This route works perfectly well for me if I snowball, and since I tend to start doing stupid shit once I'm really far ahead, the utility and HP Rylai's offers is really nice to have. I have found that in an even lane, I tend to gimp my damage by going Rylai's.
So considering the AP ratios of Foxfire and Spirit Rush are getting buffed by .05 each, I was considering going Deathcap -> Rylai's -> DFG. I dunno, I just really really like the slow and it feels like a key mechanic to kite after your ultimate is down.
Well, the ratio buffs are kind of small compared to the base damage nerfs at least on w (300 ap for r to break even, 800 ap for max rank w). Deathcap first should be a bit more common now, but you still can build any of abyssal, rylais, dfg or wota first instead.
On June 04 2012 13:51 Sufficiency wrote: But Ahri's burst is so bad that building dcap first is really NOT the best idea. I personally will still build her like a bruiser.
On June 01 2012 21:35 h3r1n6 wrote: Well, the ratio buffs are kind of small compared to the base damage nerfs at least on w (300 ap for r to break even, 800 ap for max rank w). Deathcap first should be a bit more common now, but you still can build any of abyssal, rylais, dfg or wota first instead.
Yeah, I've been seeing CrsNijacky just rush DFG and 1shot things. How do you even lane against that? It snowballs so easily.
On June 04 2012 13:51 Sufficiency wrote: But Ahri's burst is so bad that building dcap first is really NOT the best idea. I personally will still build her like a bruiser.
What did I just read.
Her Q has 0.66 ratio, her W has 0.76 ratio (assuming all 3 hits the same target you want), her E has 0.35 ratio but extremely low base damage.
Her R has 0.9 ratio if she hits three times; but there are two problems:
1. You don't typically expect to hit three times because often you are just using it to reposition yourself; 2. It takes 2 seconds to hit three times because of the casting delay.
So yea, her burst isn't great and her ratios are pretty bad compared to most other AP carries.
On June 04 2012 13:51 Sufficiency wrote: But Ahri's burst is so bad that building dcap first is really NOT the best idea. I personally will still build her like a bruiser.
What did I just read.
Her Q has 0.66 ratio, her W has 0.76 ratio (assuming all 3 hits the same target you want), her E has 0.35 ratio but extremely low base damage.
Her R has 0.9 ratio if she hits three times; but there are two problems:
1. You don't typically expect to hit three times because often you are just using it to reposition yourself; 2. It takes 2 seconds to hit three times because of the casting delay.
So yea, her burst isn't great and her ratios are pretty bad compared to most other AP carries.
Not really. Half of her Q is true damage. Which means the ratio on that part is effectively much much higher in terms of total damage dealt. And you will usually hit at least 1-2 of your R charges in full blown teamfights. In lane and small skirmishes, hitting all 3 charges on your intended target is very common.
On June 04 2012 13:51 Sufficiency wrote: But Ahri's burst is so bad that building dcap first is really NOT the best idea. I personally will still build her like a bruiser.
What did I just read.
Her Q has 0.66 ratio, her W has 0.76 ratio (assuming all 3 hits the same target you want), her E has 0.35 ratio but extremely low base damage.
Her R has 0.9 ratio if she hits three times; but there are two problems:
1. You don't typically expect to hit three times because often you are just using it to reposition yourself; 2. It takes 2 seconds to hit three times because of the casting delay.
So yea, her burst isn't great and her ratios are pretty bad compared to most other AP carries.
His point is that Ahri's burst is actually pretty damn good. To compare to a "high burst champ" like say Annie at 6:
I also find it funny that you say she has poor ratios, because her kit overall has a 2.67 AP scaling which is pretty damn good. To continue the comparison to Annie, her kits scaling is only 2.15. You'd be hard pressed to find many champions with much more than 2.67 AP scaling on their kit... off the top of my head only champ with better is Cassiopeia with 3.3 (and Viktor's 3.86, but he only gets 5 item slots so doesn't really count).
Besides, even if Ahri's burst sucked, or her scaling was terrible her kit is still really strong because she gets hard CC and really strong mobility.
Viktor has 2.3 on his ultimate alone... but the thing with Ahri is that with the way her ult works, if you keep even just a charge up it allows for an easy second round of QW thanks to her med-low cooldowns.
On June 04 2012 13:51 Sufficiency wrote: But Ahri's burst is so bad that building dcap first is really NOT the best idea. I personally will still build her like a bruiser.
What did I just read.
Her Q has 0.66 ratio, her W has 0.76 ratio (assuming all 3 hits the same target you want), her E has 0.35 ratio but extremely low base damage.
Her R has 0.9 ratio if she hits three times; but there are two problems:
1. You don't typically expect to hit three times because often you are just using it to reposition yourself; 2. It takes 2 seconds to hit three times because of the casting delay.
So yea, her burst isn't great and her ratios are pretty bad compared to most other AP carries.
His point is that Ahri's burst is actually pretty damn good. To compare to a "high burst champ" like say Annie at 6:
I also find it funny that you say she has poor ratios, because her kit overall has a 2.67 AP scaling which is pretty damn good. To continue the comparison to Annie, her kits scaling is only 2.15. You'd be hard pressed to find many champions with much more than 2.67 AP scaling on their kit... off the top of my head only champ with better is Cassiopeia with 3.3 (and Viktor's 3.86, but he only gets 5 item slots so doesn't really count).
Besides, even if Ahri's burst sucked, or her scaling was terrible her kit is still really strong because she gets hard CC and really strong mobility.
The problem is that Annie can use all her spells instantly. As far as I know, her W and R have no casting delays whatsoever.
Ahri's burst is quite delayed. Like I said, Ahri's R takes two seconds to fully cast; her Q and W also have delays for different reasons. If you do not land your E first, there would be no "burst", but rather a stream of damage that spans over around two seconds. This won't work well on someone with high sustain or some sort of CC.
Think about it this way. You are hiding in a brush, and all of a sudden one squishy member of the opposing team facechecks you. What is going to happen as Ahri and as Annie?
As Annie it's very simple. Assuming you have at least one charge already, a full rotation of her spells, which cast instantly, will stun her target and do the maximum about of damage she can do.
As Ahri it's trickier. You can land an E for free then go with Q and W (this is, btw, already an ideal scenario which you can land W on the same target...). To get a burst superior than Annie, Ahri also needs to utilize her R for damage, but it takes time to cast; during this time she can be easily shutted down by targetted CCs.
The point is, Ahri plays quite differently from a lot of the other "bursty" AP carries because Ahri's R does not provide burst. She also has the problem of her W being proximity based. Because of her somewhat odd kit and true damage on her Q, I think it's better to think of her like an AP bruiser.
Don't get me wrong, I really like to play Ahri and I think she is OP; this is just my opinion on how her kit works and why she should be built tanky.
On June 04 2012 13:51 Sufficiency wrote: But Ahri's burst is so bad that building dcap first is really NOT the best idea. I personally will still build her like a bruiser.
What did I just read.
Her Q has 0.66 ratio, her W has 0.76 ratio (assuming all 3 hits the same target you want), her E has 0.35 ratio but extremely low base damage.
Her R has 0.9 ratio if she hits three times; but there are two problems:
1. You don't typically expect to hit three times because often you are just using it to reposition yourself; 2. It takes 2 seconds to hit three times because of the casting delay.
So yea, her burst isn't great and her ratios are pretty bad compared to most other AP carries.
I'm going to adress your points later tonight because I'm sort of in a hurry right now, all I wanted to put across was that even though Ahri doesn't 100-0 people within the span of 2 seconds (much like Annie does), she is very capable of 100-0ing people. Her burst isn't BANG BOOM BANG but rather chips away at the opponents health because it comes in so many hits. (2xQ, 3xW, 3xR)
I just didn't really feel that the sentiment of Ahri not having the greatest burst was correct.
On June 04 2012 13:51 Sufficiency wrote: But Ahri's burst is so bad that building dcap first is really NOT the best idea. I personally will still build her like a bruiser.
What did I just read.
Her Q has 0.66 ratio, her W has 0.76 ratio (assuming all 3 hits the same target you want), her E has 0.35 ratio but extremely low base damage.
Her R has 0.9 ratio if she hits three times; but there are two problems:
1. You don't typically expect to hit three times because often you are just using it to reposition yourself; 2. It takes 2 seconds to hit three times because of the casting delay.
So yea, her burst isn't great and her ratios are pretty bad compared to most other AP carries.
I'm going to adress your points later tonight because I'm sort of in a hurry right now, all I wanted to put across was that even though Ahri doesn't 100-0 people within the span of 2 seconds (much like Annie does), she is very capable of 100-0ing people. Her burst isn't BANG BOOM BANG but rather chips away at the opponents health because it comes in so many hits. (2xQ, 3xW, 3xR)
I just didn't really feel that the sentiment of Ahri not having the greatest burst was correct.
The other thing is that her mobility is so good that she just beats most champs when she decides to go all in. There are very few champs who can fight her successfully once they eat any burst you can do while they stuck charmed.
On June 04 2012 13:51 Sufficiency wrote: But Ahri's burst is so bad that building dcap first is really NOT the best idea. I personally will still build her like a bruiser.
What did I just read.
Her Q has 0.66 ratio, her W has 0.76 ratio (assuming all 3 hits the same target you want), her E has 0.35 ratio but extremely low base damage.
Her R has 0.9 ratio if she hits three times; but there are two problems:
1. You don't typically expect to hit three times because often you are just using it to reposition yourself; 2. It takes 2 seconds to hit three times because of the casting delay.
So yea, her burst isn't great and her ratios are pretty bad compared to most other AP carries.
I'm going to adress your points later tonight because I'm sort of in a hurry right now, all I wanted to put across was that even though Ahri doesn't 100-0 people within the span of 2 seconds (much like Annie does), she is very capable of 100-0ing people. Her burst isn't BANG BOOM BANG but rather chips away at the opponents health because it comes in so many hits. (2xQ, 3xW, 3xR)
I just didn't really feel that the sentiment of Ahri not having the greatest burst was correct.
The other thing is that her mobility is so good that she just beats most champs when she decides to go all in. There are very few champs who can fight her successfully once they eat any burst you can do while they stuck charmed.
Right. I agree with what both of you said, but my gameplay experience with Ahri is that in later stages of the game, if you do not land your E to start the combo, it is extremely dangerous to proceed with it... especially if you are glass cannon. Because your target, while taking Ahri's "burst", can still fight back as Ahri cannot 100-0 someone in an instant. I think this is why Ahri needs a tanky build with Rylai's and/or Abysal.
I don't know. Maybe dcap first Ahri will see some surge in popularity after the patch, but I honestly don't think it's a very good build.
question: i've been running this champ for a while now and the guide suggests to get hp per level runes, is it still viable with new patch tho? because i think this was meant for ahri when you could build her tanky but now she's more glass cannon, what would you guys suggest? keep the hp/level or use something else? thanks!
Either DFG or Abyssal are the two best starts. Boots + 3 > Dorans > Dorans > DRG/Abyssal.
Dfg with Ahri can make or break fights. If you ever land a seduce on their Support, AD carry or Mid you can usually DFG > Ult > Combo and kill them or at least bring them extremely low that they won't want to fight in a team fight. Abyssal is just amazing since all her spells (except seduce) are AoE and thus benefit soooo much from the -20 MR. I actually prefer going DFG due to the Mana Regen, CDR and Clicky (which scales all game long)
Plus if you get DFG early enough you WILL always fully combo bottom lane / Jungle no matter what because they won't have enough items to give them enough protection.
Ahri is easily my favorite mid to play because of how strong and mobile she is.
On June 20 2012 10:28 Sufficiency wrote: I don't see why you shouldn't run flat MP/5 runes.
so more mpen? i run mpen reds and ap per level blues, is it worth to get mpen yellows as well as you say? for now i run mana regen yellows because i'm using an old rune setup but i wanna make a page specifically for ahri, that's why i was asking if hp/level yellows are still viable or the best choice..
On June 20 2012 10:28 Sufficiency wrote: I don't see why you shouldn't run flat MP/5 runes.
so more mpen? i run mpen reds and ap per level blues, is it worth to get mpen yellows as well as you say? for now i run mana regen yellows because i'm using an old rune setup but i wanna make a page specifically for ahri, that's why i was asking if hp/level yellows are still viable or the best choice..
I run 3 flat Mregen and 6 scaling Mregen, provides the best mix in my opinion.
Just tried my first game in ranked as DFG Ahri and I have to say I´m convinced. I felt it did so much more for me than my ld rylais first builds.If you catch anyone by yourself in midgame it´s an easy 100-0 if they havn´t built a bunch of hp or mr.
On June 20 2012 10:28 Sufficiency wrote: I don't see why you shouldn't run flat MP/5 runes.
so more mpen? i run mpen reds and ap per level blues, is it worth to get mpen yellows as well as you say? for now i run mana regen yellows because i'm using an old rune setup but i wanna make a page specifically for ahri, that's why i was asking if hp/level yellows are still viable or the best choice..
I run 3 flat Mregen and 6 scaling Mregen, provides the best mix in my opinion.
On June 20 2012 10:28 Sufficiency wrote: I don't see why you shouldn't run flat MP/5 runes.
so more mpen? i run mpen reds and ap per level blues, is it worth to get mpen yellows as well as you say? for now i run mana regen yellows because i'm using an old rune setup but i wanna make a page specifically for ahri, that's why i was asking if hp/level yellows are still viable or the best choice..
Not sure what I should get after DFG. Rylai's and rabadon's both sound good. Zhonya's as well (armor synergizes with spell vamp from passive).
Also, I've seen multiple guides say to get hextech/WotA on ahri. This doesn't seem to do much except for the fact that since Ahri is more of a sustained damage champ, she will make more use of the spell vamp. But she already has spell vamp from her passive. You don't synergize with spell vamp by building MOAR spell vamp, you get resists so that your passive gives you more EHP.
Revolver has fallen out of favour on Ahri. It used to be that EVERYONE built Doran x2 -> Revolver -> Rylai. Nowadays everyone build Doran x2 -> Abysal.
I believe Rylai's is still better on Ahri than DFG. It gives her so much utility in fights it's crazy.
Not sure what I should get after DFG. Rylai's and rabadon's both sound good. Zhonya's as well (armor synergizes with spell vamp from passive).
Also, I've seen multiple guides say to get hextech/WotA on ahri. This doesn't seem to do much except for the fact that since Ahri is more of a sustained damage champ, she will make more use of the spell vamp. But she already has spell vamp from her passive. You don't synergize with spell vamp by building MOAR spell vamp, you get resists so that your passive gives you more EHP.
Or am I dumb and missing something here?
Only match up I would consider early spell vamp is against huekaiser, other than that, kages >>> 2x dorans is the way to go imo. You should be able to 1 shot ranged creeps @ lvl 9 up till ~ lvl 11. And hopefully by lvl 11, you have enough money for your needlessly large rod + sorc booties.
My build deviates into dcap first then dfg then abyssal.
On July 30 2012 03:30 Sufficiency wrote: Revolver has fallen out of favour on Ahri. It used to be that EVERYONE built Doran x2 -> Revolver -> Rylai. Nowadays everyone build Doran x2 -> Abysal.
I believe Rylai's is still better on Ahri than DFG. It gives her so much utility in fights it's crazy.
As with everything, it depends. Want to nuke squishy targets? DFG. Want to kite bruisers? Rylais. I find myself going different builds on Ahri all the time and she is versatile enough that you can.
On July 30 2012 03:30 Sufficiency wrote: Revolver has fallen out of favour on Ahri. It used to be that EVERYONE built Doran x2 -> Revolver -> Rylai. Nowadays everyone build Doran x2 -> Abysal.
I believe Rylai's is still better on Ahri than DFG. It gives her so much utility in fights it's crazy.
As with everything, it depends. Want to nuke squishy targets? DFG. Want to kite bruisers? Rylais. I find myself going different builds on Ahri all the time and she is versatile enough that you can.
I know a lot of people disagree with me on this, but if you play Ahri for burst you are playing the wrong champion. Her so-called burst isn't that great and it is extremely tricky to land.
Doesn't really matter that Ahri isn't a burst champion, DFG is just such a good item (especially with lucky pick) that it's a good idea to get it as first or second big item anyway
Yeah Ahris burst is nothing like Veigar or LB:s, but still, its pretty decent. And i dont know what is all this talk about burst being tricky to land, even at top levels i see people just stand there against Ahri, getting R+E:d to the face all the time, and hitting your RE is a guaranteed full combo. In my low level games its even easier, Ahri so good at low level stomping, imho the best AP for it... 75% winrate @ 1500, even though i can hardly get any other champ to 60.
On September 06 2012 01:50 capnspiff46 wrote: How would an Ahri handle a Katarina mid? I have a tough time staying in lane as her jumps make me miss my skillshots.
There really isn't much IMO. Ahri vs Katarina is a skill matchup for Ahri (not so much for Katarina). You can try to auto her as much as possible in the earlier levels, but otherwise Katarina can fairly easily win if you make mistakes.
Is the double dorans abyssal build still good on Ahri after the abyssal nerf? I feel like it's still useful for the MR and the close up trades when using her ultimate.
Abyssal isnt worth it anymore in my opinion. With deathcap, wota and dfg you have a lategame build and afterwards you can get banshees + probably void for a 6 item build.
Abyssal is still pretty good as a laning item defensively but harassment doesn't benefit from the aura, I get it against diana, akali and katarina since they're bursty and melee but I'm leaning far more towards rylais as a general item after the abyssal nerf. I personally like the double dorans kages -> dfg -> rylais/dcap route build path. Because of the inherent level advantage you get as a solo lane, it allows you to pretty safely wander to bottom lane and 100-0 someone down there the second your dfg is finished and the burst allows you to pretty safely towerdive with W>R>DFG>E>Q>R being generally more than enough to gib someone.
Against katarina, I feel it's a battle to crush her before she hits 6. She automatically pushes the lane if she tries to last-hit with her Q or W so don't be afraid to Q her right back and trade a few autos. I generally have little trouble forcing her to use one or two pots by level 3. Abuse the fact that you have a bit of sustain outside of pots in the early levels and don't be afraid to blow your ignite at level 2 if you hit a charm. It'll be back up the next time you need it at 6 and will actually improve your last hitting.
On September 06 2012 03:26 Lmui wrote: Abyssal is still pretty good as a laning item defensively but harassment doesn't benefit from the aura, I get it against diana, akali and katarina since they're bursty and melee but I'm leaning far more towards rylais as a general item after the abyssal nerf. I personally like the double dorans kages -> dfg -> rylais/dcap route build path. Because of the inherent level advantage you get as a solo lane, it allows you to pretty safely wander to bottom lane and 100-0 someone down there the second your dfg is finished and the burst allows you to pretty safely towerdive with W>R>DFG>E>Q>R being generally more than enough to gib someone.
Against katarina, I feel it's a battle to crush her before she hits 6. She automatically pushes the lane if she tries to last-hit with her Q or W so don't be afraid to Q her right back and trade a few autos. I generally have little trouble forcing her to use one or two pots by level 3. Abuse the fact that you have a bit of sustain outside of pots in the early levels and don't be afraid to blow your ignite at level 2 if you hit a charm. It'll be back up the next time you need it at 6 and will actually improve your last hitting.
From experience, if you end up going all in at such an early level, your cooldowns are so long that kat can easily out trade you in terms of damage Especially when her W gives her additional movespeed to allow her to keep up and auto you.
Personally, I think the best way to beat Kat is to force a passive lane until you both hit 6. Once you both hit 6 and hopefully isn't at full hp. (Should be able to Q her whenever she shumpos for last hit) and she tries to trade EQW against you, just pop your ulti and W and Q her. Force her to pop her ulti/flash out or you'll easily land the kill. Of course save charm to cc her out of her ulti
On September 06 2012 02:58 Cloud wrote: Abyssal isnt worth it anymore in my opinion. With deathcap, wota and dfg you have a lategame build and afterwards you can get banshees + probably void for a 6 item build.
Yeah i've stopped getting abyssal pretty much entirely now. Usual build is dring + kage's into dcap and then DFG/rylai.
On September 06 2012 03:26 Lmui wrote: Abyssal is still pretty good as a laning item defensively but harassment doesn't benefit from the aura, I get it against diana, akali and katarina since they're bursty and melee but I'm leaning far more towards rylais as a general item after the abyssal nerf. I personally like the double dorans kages -> dfg -> rylais/dcap route build path. Because of the inherent level advantage you get as a solo lane, it allows you to pretty safely wander to bottom lane and 100-0 someone down there the second your dfg is finished and the burst allows you to pretty safely towerdive with W>R>DFG>E>Q>R being generally more than enough to gib someone.
Against katarina, I feel it's a battle to crush her before she hits 6. She automatically pushes the lane if she tries to last-hit with her Q or W so don't be afraid to Q her right back and trade a few autos. I generally have little trouble forcing her to use one or two pots by level 3. Abuse the fact that you have a bit of sustain outside of pots in the early levels and don't be afraid to blow your ignite at level 2 if you hit a charm. It'll be back up the next time you need it at 6 and will actually improve your last hitting.
From experience, if you end up going all in at such an early level, your cooldowns are so long that kat can easily out trade you in terms of damage Especially when her W gives her additional movespeed to allow her to keep up and auto you.
Personally, I think the best way to beat Kat is to force a passive lane until you both hit 6. Once you both hit 6 and hopefully isn't at full hp. (Should be able to Q her whenever she shumpos for last hit) and she tries to trade EQW against you, just pop your ulti and W and Q her. Force her to pop her ulti/flash out or you'll easily land the kill. Of course save charm to cc her out of her ulti
Laning as ahri, it's pretty easy to get a few autoattacks on her before she has because unless she's going to not take any cs, she has to walk in range for you to auto her and using her Q on you pushes the lane in addition to making sure that she can't get any ranged creeps for the next 10s. She can't effectively all-in you until level 4 because shunpoing onto you before that is just asking for an easy charm and Q and also, you have ranged creeps helping you while she has no creeps attacking you. At level 2/3, creeps do a huge amount of damage. A charm -> Q + autos + ignite is enough to force out a lot of pots. Obviously a kill from it is nice but your main objective is to abuse katarina hard before she has terrible early laning. If she all-ins you afterwards, you already have the advantage of having chunked her down beforehand and also, your cooldowns are actually shorter than hers are. With ranged creep assistance, you shouldn't lose to any followup from katarina.
Been looking to play Ahri recently but can't seem to decide what I want to build so figured I'd turn to TL for help. I know Grail rush used to be the thing on her in Season 2 and I tried that but with it having 30 less AP than before I felt hurt my burst too much. She's mana hungry so I figure I want either Tear or Chalice for laning. I guess she would stack tear pretty slowly but I find myself favoring it over Chalice for mana in lane, just a personal thing. Or maybe skip mana, grab a Doran's Ring and just start stacking AP? In theory I like the new DFG on her a lot, being able to amply the damage on her burst would be nice, plus some CDR. Just kinda spouting out random thoughts now. Help please!
Personally I just rush a kage's pick with a faerie charm into a morellonomicon -> Rylais, maybe one dorans if I need it. If it's a harass-heavy MR lane like Lux or Ryze I'll opt for chalice and I won't get morellonomicon but rather an Abyssal first. Kinda depends what my role is on team, if I'm utility burst cycles I'll go Morello/Rylais/Abyssal/Zhonyas usually in that order with a Liandry's or a Deathcap to round it out but if I'm supposed to be blowing fools up in one combo then obviously Deathcap goes in there before any other items.
I think I'm like 10-1 with Ahri in ranked right now, I love her because you can still outplay people really easily with her even though she's a little weaker than she used to be.
1. Her W skill, it says she has 3 foxes circling around her, targeting enemies and prioritizing champions. So, am I right in saying, if at level one, W does 40 damage per fox, it can be a total of 120 dmg? Assuming all 3 foxes attack the same one champion.
2. I dont exactly understand how this R spell works. basically she dashes forward quickly in the direction she is facing, and produces 3x essence bolts, am I right? Then what? It says dealing damage to 3 nearby enemies. Again, could all 3 bolts attack the same champion?
On March 15 2013 18:40 Swordland wrote: Hi guys I am new to LoL.
2 questions about Ahri, about her W and R skills.
1. Her W skill, it says she has 3 foxes circling around her, targeting enemies and prioritizing champions. So, am I right in saying, if at level one, W does 40 damage per fox, it can be a total of 120 dmg? Assuming all 3 foxes attack the same one champion.
2. I dont exactly understand how this R spell works. basically she dashes forward quickly in the direction she is facing, and produces 3x essence bolts, am I right? Then what? It says dealing damage to 3 nearby enemies. Again, could all 3 bolts attack the same champion?
Thank you everyone
1 :
Active: Ahri releases three fox-fires to surround her for up to 5 seconds. After a short delay after cast, each flame will target the closest enemy unit to itself, prioritizing champions, and deal magic damage to the target.
Additional fox-fires that hit the same target will only deal 50% damage.
No it won't deal full damage to them.
Magic Damage to the Same Target: 80 / 130 / 180 / 230 / 280 (+ 80% AP)
Provided all 3 hit the same target use this chart ^.
2 :
Active: Ahri dashes towards the cursor and fires essence bolts, dealing magic damage to up to 3 nearby enemies, prioritizing champions. In the next 10 seconds, Spirit Rush can be cast two additional times before going on cooldown. Each enemy can only be hit once per dash.
So no they can be hit by one of the 3 bolts but not all 3.
On March 15 2013 17:38 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Personally I just rush a kage's pick with a faerie charm into a morellonomicon -> Rylais, maybe one dorans if I need it. If it's a harass-heavy MR lane like Lux or Ryze I'll opt for chalice and I won't get morellonomicon but rather an Abyssal first. Kinda depends what my role is on team, if I'm utility burst cycles I'll go Morello/Rylais/Abyssal/Zhonyas usually in that order with a Liandry's or a Deathcap to round it out but if I'm supposed to be blowing fools up in one combo then obviously Deathcap goes in there before any other items.
I think I'm like 10-1 with Ahri in ranked right now, I love her because you can still outplay people really easily with her even though she's a little weaker than she used to be.
Do you fit a Chalice in there anywhere? Or do you rely on blue or simply manage your mana carefully?
i really like the idea of building morello+rilay as a core for general sitations. this makes her much more flexible, less snowbally and adds both surviability and utility. the damage comes more from the fact that you can play poke/kite heavy and less from all-ins.
morellos is also a very underappreciated item. the stats you get for the cost are actually off the hook.
the chalice idea i dont like as much. id rather go mercs, revolver against harass lanes and then still build morello and so on. or even a build like sorcs 2 dorans revolver. that build was kind of core at ahris beginnings and still works well if you need to rely on sustain to lane.
On March 15 2013 17:38 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Personally I just rush a kage's pick with a faerie charm into a morellonomicon -> Rylais, maybe one dorans if I need it. If it's a harass-heavy MR lane like Lux or Ryze I'll opt for chalice and I won't get morellonomicon but rather an Abyssal first. Kinda depends what my role is on team, if I'm utility burst cycles I'll go Morello/Rylais/Abyssal/Zhonyas usually in that order with a Liandry's or a Deathcap to round it out but if I'm supposed to be blowing fools up in one combo then obviously Deathcap goes in there before any other items.
I think I'm like 10-1 with Ahri in ranked right now, I love her because you can still outplay people really easily with her even though she's a little weaker than she used to be.
Do you fit a Chalice in there anywhere? Or do you rely on blue or simply manage your mana carefully?
Ahri's mana costs aren't intense, Morellonomicon might be enough there for the primary build (certainly will if you also build a doran's)
Against physical lane opponents, IMO rush seekers + mana from something (chalice or doran) -> Rylais + Zhonya or DCap + Zhonya.
I don't like Revolver. She already has a non-negligible amount of spellvamp (it amounts to around 11-12%, but it's a little better because you can choose to use it on all the creeps when it's up, then charge it up with foxfire cheaply.) and while it's true that it was popular in the past, spellvamp items were noticably more powerful at the time it was popular (WOTA was like 300 less to combine and gave 5% more spellvamp, plus double AP double WOTA compositions were very popular.)
If you're against a harass lane where you can't really avoid the harass, harass back with foxfire/orb until they're at a point where you can threaten a kill on them if they get too close. Your passive + potions should be enough to keep you in lane unless you're just catching all their skillshots while missing all of yours.
Another item which has been gaining a lot of steam on Ahri - but I haven't personally tried it - is Lichbane. My friend who plays like... almost 100% ahri when he goes mid says it's really nice because Ahri has a really smooth attack animation which is very easy to weave into your combos, especially when going for a kill with Spirit Rush. When he gets it, I believe he builds the Sheen early, finishing the Lichbane after his first major item (Often Rylai's or DCap)
Ok, so basically her ultimate spell, she dashes forward and she releases ONE fox spirit that hits a champion. Therefore to make her attacks connect 3 times, I have to cast the spell 3 times because 1 cast = 1 hit right?
On March 15 2013 23:11 Swordland wrote: Ok, so basically her ultimate spell, she dashes forward and she releases ONE fox spirit that hits a champion. Therefore to make her attacks connect 3 times, I have to cast the spell 3 times because 1 cast = 1 hit right?
That's right. For her ultimate, the 3 spirits (3 spirits per dash usage) will not target the same thing. It does mean, however, that in a teamfight, you can be nuking multiple enemy champions.
To clarify: Each usage of the ultimate releases 3 spirits, but these spirits MUST target different targets (not the same as foxfire.) You can use the ult 3 times.
Also, worth reminding that you need vision on a target to hit them with a spirit.
Just like a lot of other AP mids lately I've been loving tear on Ahri. You can stack it fast enough and Seraphs is such an amazing mid/end game item, not only for the tons of AP but the click effect. I'll usually end up going tear > guise > deathcap build. It's a solid build order that gives you enough mana, ok survivability and tons of damage.
It also really depends on who you're laning against. If it's an AD you really need to grab seekers early and in that case I'd probably skip tear all together and just grab a dorans (2 at most) and just rely on that + blue buff for mana.
If it's a very harass heavy AP then grabbing an early negatron and holding onto that til 5-6 items works, or just making Abyssal as your first main item works well too, especially since Ahri can be all up in the enemies faces.
Haven't actually tried tear > morellos on Ahri yet, I do it on some of the other Mids I play but I guess for some reason haven't done it on Ahri yet. Although 40% CDR Ahri shoots off spells freaking constantly lol. So it's gotta be pretty amazing.
I think most people have seen or at least heard about ForellenLord's Ahri play against MYM this week in LCS. It wasn't just an incredibly strong showing of Ahri when she's currently a bit under played in the pro scene it also incorporated a really interesting item. He built a Gunblade. His build was Grail -> Dcap -> Void Staff -> Gunblade.
The logic behind the Gunblade being that since it has a .4 AP ratio the active can do solid damage, provide a slow, be on a much shorter cooldown than DFG due to the way Ahri's W works (just her W reduces the CD by 9 seconds). I am not fully convinced if he went Gunblade semi-trolly though because I can't imagine the damage you put out from Gunblade would be better than getting a DFG since you're getting CDR, a ton more AP, and the active on DFG is certainly stronger than Gunblade's active for sheer damage (not to even mention the damage amplifier). However what you'd get from Gunblade would be a semi-defensive item due to all the spell vamp/life steal you'd have along with the utility of an extra slow (but you could just go Rylai's for the slow/defensive item or DFG for more burst). I guess Gunblade functions as a semi-hybrid between Rylai's and DFG...maybe?
Was ForellenLord just dicking around because ATN was so far ahead or is Gunblade legit and if so in what situations would it be better to get Gunblade over DFG or Rylai's? + Show Spoiler +
I just don't think Hextech is that great of a choice for Ahri. Honestly I'd rather just get a lich bane, which I know we've seen some pros grab before (rarely, but it's happened) It's cheaper, gives more AP, gives movement speed & that amazing passive, especially once you get a huge amount of AP.
AD on gunblade is nice, but you won't be auto attacking much at all in team fights to really make it worth it. Vamp isn't needed since you're passive imo. As for active on gunblade, sure the slow is nice, but again I don't think it's as useful for her.
With that said, after grail > dcap > void the amount of damage the lich bane proc will do is huge, especially since you in theory could auto attack once after each spirit rush to do massive amounts of damage. Although at that point I'd probably rather get a DFG for more burst or a zhonyas to get more tanky.
Rylai/Liandry's is generally a very strong combo in general. For Ahri you really want that DFG though since it really helps your assassination potential.
On August 22 2013 10:00 Klonopin wrote: i was wondering what you ahri players think about rylais\liandry's. ive had quite shocking (to me anyway) success with it.
i go chalice, rylais, liandry's, athenes. with boots in there somewhere. and then void staff.
first 3 games my score was: 11-1-7, 10-2-9, 17-3-10
If that is your style of gameplay for ahri and it works that's great. But I prefer the more standard route of DFG, deathcap, and zhonyas. For some reason I never buy rylais nor liandrys on any ap mids especially if they're an assassin, but from the looks of it that build is more kite/tank oriented which looks pretty cool, especially the ryali slow on the initial dash of ult+foxfire for easier charm lands.
Against high health champions, rylai into liandry is pretty sweet, because it allows you to do shit to tanks late-game without getting cap+void staff. A combo of rylai/liandry/abyssal/athenes/morellonomicon/zhonyas is generally what i get. Athene's is decent and although i haven't tried morellonomicon yet, it seems like a better choice unless you're facing a heavy AP. Sometimes i don't go for more mp5 than double dorans, but those games gets decided by your jungle control (e.g your jungler is raping the enemy and gives you every single blue very early) and then grabbing something like abyssal+zhonyas or rylais+zhonyas with liandry for late-game.
I've been playing Ahri a lot, and I gotta say lissandra is a really good against her, maybe even to call her a counterpick. Her lane harass with Q is too good and its hard to trade back. Also her allin is very strong and she negates my allin with her ult as well. Stil trying to figure out how to lane against her.
On Ahri, do you typically go a mana item such as morellonomicon or athene's before getting dfg? Or do you just stick with double dorans for mana regen?
On August 23 2013 17:06 LeapofFaith wrote: On Ahri, do you typically go a mana item such as morellonomicon or athene's before getting dfg? Or do you just stick with double dorans for mana regen?
You don't want to go mana items, just build double dorans and go straight in to DFG. That is I think the most effective way to build ahri, and its also the most popular/standard. But if you face heavy ap team(I go abyssal still) or you have blue dependent jungler or you need early MR or something you can go athenes, but the most standard/assassin build is double dorans-dfg-deathcap.
Just played a game with Ahri against a Malzahar and I feel like I couldn't do a thing.. Whenever you get close you get free harass from malefic visions or silenced.. whenever I ulted I got supressed. Is it a hard counter or did I just played that matchup extremely poorly?
On September 25 2013 22:50 Uldridge wrote: Just played a game with Ahri against a Malzahar and I feel like I couldn't do a thing.. Whenever you get close you get free harass from malefic visions or silenced.. whenever I ulted I got supressed. Is it a hard counter or did I just played that matchup extremely poorly?
It'll be hard to kill Malzahar in most mid matchups. Usually there's no real reason to go agressive on him imo.
I just wait till i have the AP to waveclear decently, that's basically the most important part of facing Malz. After u can match his pushing you can try going in on a silence juke, keeping in mind that that silence probably still cleared the entire wave and will still give him minion advantage in fighting you. You're more mobile and a better ganker though. Once you have the waveclear, look for ganks.
On September 25 2013 22:50 Uldridge wrote: Just played a game with Ahri against a Malzahar and I feel like I couldn't do a thing.. Whenever you get close you get free harass from malefic visions or silenced.. whenever I ulted I got supressed. Is it a hard counter or did I just played that matchup extremely poorly?
It'll be hard to kill Malzahar in most mid matchups. Usually there's no real reason to go agressive on him imo.
I just wait till i have the AP to waveclear decently, that's basically the most important part of facing Malz. After u can match his pushing you can try going in on a silence juke, keeping in mind that that silence probably still cleared the entire wave and will still give him minion advantage in fighting you. You're more mobile and a better ganker though. Once you have the waveclear, look for ganks.
Also, your Q range is larger then his dot range, so that if you go for max range q's you can harass him without him being able to respond. If you land 2-3 of these you can very easily kill him with ult.
On September 25 2013 22:50 Uldridge wrote: Just played a game with Ahri against a Malzahar and I feel like I couldn't do a thing.. Whenever you get close you get free harass from malefic visions or silenced.. whenever I ulted I got supressed. Is it a hard counter or did I just played that matchup extremely poorly?
It'll be hard to kill Malzahar in most mid matchups. Usually there's no real reason to go agressive on him imo.
I just wait till i have the AP to waveclear decently, that's basically the most important part of facing Malz. After u can match his pushing you can try going in on a silence juke, keeping in mind that that silence probably still cleared the entire wave and will still give him minion advantage in fighting you. You're more mobile and a better ganker though. Once you have the waveclear, look for ganks.
Yeah thanks, I'll just play the matchup supersafe next time and wait untill he just wastes a spell so I can go in, patience is a virtue on Ahri I guess.. Makes me appreciate the high level assassinations so much more.
On September 25 2013 22:50 Uldridge wrote: Just played a game with Ahri against a Malzahar and I feel like I couldn't do a thing.. Whenever you get close you get free harass from malefic visions or silenced.. whenever I ulted I got supressed. Is it a hard counter or did I just played that matchup extremely poorly?
It'll be hard to kill Malzahar in most mid matchups. Usually there's no real reason to go agressive on him imo.
I just wait till i have the AP to waveclear decently, that's basically the most important part of facing Malz. After u can match his pushing you can try going in on a silence juke, keeping in mind that that silence probably still cleared the entire wave and will still give him minion advantage in fighting you. You're more mobile and a better ganker though. Once you have the waveclear, look for ganks.
this is in theory. in reality you will be pushed up against your tower all day unless you push him out of lane. "until you have the waveclear" is like lvl10...by then you have wasted a lot of your early-mid game potential roam because you were pushed up.
i think you have to spend the first several levels studying how your specific malz is using his spells, how he reacts to you feigning aggression, etc...then plan an allin at 6 (goal to push him out first, only kill if possible). harass/poke him as much as possible when his shit is on cd and you wont get malefic from a creep. as ahri you do have that small range advantage so you should be able to poke him and then allin with ult when his cd's are down (malz spam cds to push lane, just study his behavior). even with his ult you should be able to burst him.
if you can't do it at 6 (he's at 100%, his behavior is defensive in nature) then yes, you are forced to wait a long time and be even more patient, just study him more and learn how you can trade vs him (again no malz doesn't spam cd's to push wave)...and keep doing that and taking small wins. i still think this is the sub-optimal but safer way to play.
this is what i do as lb vs malz, kass vs malz, and i would do this as ahri vs malz. regardless of ahri's q having better waveclear than either of the two i mentioned.
edit: its very easy for malz to be unsafe around lvl5 and spam his cd's to push when he is (momentarily) in range to eat your full lvl5 combo. JUMP ON THAT SHIT. you can push him out of lane and allin when he comes back and you are 6.
On August 23 2013 16:38 UnKooL wrote: I've been playing Ahri a lot, and I gotta say lissandra is a really good against her, maybe even to call her a counterpick. Her lane harass with Q is too good and its hard to trade back. Also her allin is very strong and she negates my allin with her ult as well. Stil trying to figure out how to lane against her.
Faker agrees with you here. It's largely a skill matchup, but in a fight Lissandra has the luxury of a targeted lockdown followed up by the root to basically put Ahri out of the fight. Makes positioning even more important than it already was.
The OP needs to be edited back up to date since the latest (big) changes. I disagree with the notion that Ahri is nerfed too much, but she is definitly a bit weaker since 3.13.
Had a few great matches this week with her (though I'm talking silver level of play).
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7W7UO.jpg)
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(Innate): Ahri gains a charge of Essence Theft whenever one of her spells hits an enemy. This caps at 3 charges per spell cast. Upon reaching 9 charges, Ahri's next spell will have 35% bonus spell vamp.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ush5i.jpg)
(Active): Ahri sends out an orb in a line in front of her and then pulls it back, dealing magic damage on the way out and true damage on the way back. Cost: 60 / 65 / 70 / 75 / 80 mana, Range: 880, Cooldown: 7 seconds![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rpZc0.jpg)
(Active): Ahri releases three fox-fires to surround her. After a short delay they will attack nearby enemies, prioritizing champions, to deal magic damage to them. Additional fox-fires that hit the same target deal 50% damage. Cost: 60 mana, Range: 800![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HS5f2.jpg)
(Active): Ahri blows a kiss that travels in a line in front of her. It will deal magic damage and charm the first enemy it encounters, causing them to walk harmlessly towards her, while being slowed by 50% for the duration. Cooldown: 12 seconds, Range: 975![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OH0Ak.jpg)
(Active): Ahri dashes towards the cursor and fires essence bolts, dealing magic damage to 3 nearby enemies, prioritizing champions. Spirit Rush can be cast two additional times before going on cooldown. Each enemy can only be hit once per dash. Cost: 100 mana, Range: 450![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jJy7m.png)
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Possibly the hardest match up early game. Unlike other champions however, you don't get outpushed vs cass, this helps because she can't zone you as hard since you aren't getting blocked by your own minions. The animation on her q is such that if you cast your own q at the right time you can force her to eat the whole orb and your q does more damage, use your e to slow her if she lands a q and you are about to eat a round of fangs, if she whiffs a q don't be afraid to get a little close to cast your w. Another good thing is that cass isn't the best of tower divers. Once you get to level 6 the tables are turned heavily in your favor unless you died to her. This is because while cass is good on the offense she sucks at defending herself particularly against you. The best time to abuse your ult is as soon as she uses her q on a creep, bonus points if you use your r to dodge her q instead. Her ult is hard to dodge but that's not the point, if she uses it too soon her q will be on cd and she will lose the trade, if she waits she will get charmed and eat a full combo before she can respond.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PgxBV.png)
By far my most played match up, for some reason everyone seems to think that brand is a good counterpick, or maybe there are just that many brand players. The worst thing you can do against a brand is get in range of his e. All a decent brand needs to land his pillar is a close enough distance and if you're in range for him to land his e first then you're playing the match up wrongly. You outpush this champion and your harass is superior since its harder to dodge and you don't get blocked by creeps. Brands will clear the wave with their pillar which is their single most damaging ability, abuse your ultimate right after they use it (make sure it misses you). If they use their e too then gg, he can't even stun you with a lucky q.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2qru6.png)
This is such a dumb champion, how can you get so damaging while getting so tanky is beyond me. It is a challenging match up if you are new to Ahri, otherwise you outpush him and outrange him. Clueless ryze players will open mana crystal, abuse the shit out of that, he can't get close to you, if he tries land a Q on his face and run away. You have the advantage in this lane, your charm is fucking amazing because he is such a spammy character and it basically nullifies the time you are rooted while you are bursting him down. However he is still a bs champion and he will force you to build tanky no matter what, he will focus you down in teamfights and you must be able to stand up to him. Wota into rylais is a solid build vs ryze. don't get the revolver before you get your drings though, drings are too good. Also, despite banshee's being such a dumb item on ryze and basically the very first thing that he gets, all of your skills hit so many times that the little shield doesn't really matter.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zuVTM.png)
Contrary to what most people think, ahri outclasses leblanc in lane. The easiest way to handle her is to take teleport, outpush the shit out of her levels 1-5 (do not miss cs!) then go back, teleport to lane 2 drings ahead and then you can ask her whose level 6 burst hurts more. If you feel her burst is too much don't be afraid to go 3 drings -> giants belt -> wota -> rylais and she has to find another target in teamfights. If you are having problems, let yourself get zoned a bit, the wave will push back eventually, abuse the times when she uses her q on a minion, either to shove the wave to her turret and gank other lanes or burst her down if you think it's worth it. A leblanc with blue will abuse you more than you can abuse her with the same buff, play more passive and use every chance you have to push the wave back so that you can gank. Even with blue leblanc isn't much better at clearing waves. This one is basically the only champion that prevents you from abusing your ult, unless you get a decent lead early on, use your ult to gank. Did I mention that pushing charges your passive which nullifies her harass?![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/m7WAE.png)
Kennen is also at a disadvantage vs you although a decent kennen can survive the lane and he supports ganks pretty well, ward for yourself, rushing towards you through the creeps is suicide since your e will make him eat a full combo while he won't get to you because he'll be slowed if he rushes towards the creep wave to damage it then go nuts with your W, overall not a hard match up. Did i mention that you outpush him? However, like Ryze, this champion forces you to get tanky, wota at the least is a must, if you get to late game building pure damage he will just flash ult and kill you in the blink of an eye. Consider getting cleanse for when the opposing team is running double ap aoe team, kennen seems to be a favorite in those configurations.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6lvCG.png)
This match up isn't hard at all if you play it correctly. Get W first and max it before Q, only get E if you really think it's necessary, I often get it level 8-9 since you want the most damage possible vs sion. Level 1-2 your W and your autos will break his shield easily, making it very mana inneficient for him. If he gets close to you with his shield down, cast W and auto him, retreat when he activates it. If he comes with his shield up judge whether you can break it in time, usually you have to cast your W immediately after he activates it. If you cant break it, back off but not so much, you should be able to chase after him right after his shield explodes to land a couple of fox fires. If things go wrong and you are losing, ward your lane and follow sion wherever he ganks. You should win small teamfights vs sion because you do a lot more damage and you can chase people much better. Basically you just have to play a little smart in lane vs him.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IAVci.png)
Her shield doesn't reduce true damage, her ult is all but a damaging single tick vs you even if she lands a bind, she gets outpushed which hurts her W. Everything is basically set up for you to completely rape this lane and in truth it isn't hard to come out 40+ cs ahead while forcing her to remain in lane for the entire laning phase. But can you do that and also get a kill or two off of her and also gank for your other lanes? If you can then you probably won the game already for your team. Consider not getting charm at all until level 7-9, even if her jungler babysits her this should be a clear win for you. You should be able to beat morganas consistently without allowing them to arrive unscathed to the point where they can just farm safely with a single poodle per wave. This is pretty much the most basic match up for any ahri player since you are morgana's most logical counter, which is particularly nice since everyone seems to want to pick her first.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bzykC.png)
Don't get outharassed, always keep an eye on the champion, do not try to dodge his Q by looking for the spell's particle, instead look at the animation of the champion itself. This matchup is a little similar to morgana's, except that xerath is a little harder but you really love when he sits in place for you to land that Q. Dodging every single on of his skillshots is also pretty sweet and even if he hits one of them it's gonna hardly be the first one so his damage will be underwhelming and as such he will lose trades.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pEHCZ.png)
You really don't have a bigger problem vs annie than any other ap mid, and she isn't the strongest of laners, however if you're both level 6 free farming with 100% hp then you're doing it wrong. She will burst you eventually and if it doesn't kill you then you will be forced to go back and then she will start winning the lane. Harass her since there isn't any danger of getting outpushed. Always have her selected so you can keep track of the stacks on her passive.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mIMH7.png)
With no junglers or with only weak gankers involved you should win this lane, despite him being melee you should max Q over W, the problem with talon is the fact that he supports ganks extremely well so ward for yourelf and don't be overaggressive if you don't know where their jungler is. Consider getting cleanse or qss if they have multiple gap closers, talon can really make you miserable in teamfights if he catches you just a little bit off position and if he has teammates that can abuse that.
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