EPTBut yea, I don't like building straight Triforce on like...anyone but Corki/Ez. The build up time just takes too long and you're too squishy while you build it up. Just grabbing sheen gives you a nice damage boost and you can supplement that with chain vest/negatron and then slowly farm it up. As skarner you already have pretty sick damage without much damage items anyways so I don't really see the need to rush those big ticket dps items anyways.
[Champion] Skarner - Page 7
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
But yea, I don't like building straight Triforce on like...anyone but Corki/Ez. The build up time just takes too long and you're too squishy while you build it up. Just grabbing sheen gives you a nice damage boost and you can supplement that with chain vest/negatron and then slowly farm it up. As skarner you already have pretty sick damage without much damage items anyways so I don't really see the need to rush those big ticket dps items anyways. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
Soloing 3 people at once, killing 2, getting away. Fights 1v2, wins. Whole enemy team (including fake Neo) complains about how imbalanced he is. Yet for the life of me I can't understand what Dan does differently from me. (In fights anyway. I know he's Dan Dinh and is shit tons better than I'll ever be, and I guess he was fed early, but I have NEVER been able to do that much damage with Skarner and not be squishy with the same friggin build.) Hmmm.... on second though I DID just notice Dan does not spam Q to clear minion waves....I'm assuming to save mana. He still has the same mana issues as I do when playing though even while saving up. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 09 2011 03:02 Requizen wrote: I still don't see the huge draw of Rageblade. With runes and W up, I don't really feel the need for the massive AS boost, and the flat numbers aren't anything to write home about, imo. I suppose it's mostly to power his passive, but eh. How are they not anything to write home about? 8-stack Rageblade is the most gold-efficient non-snowball item in the game for pure stats, period. I don't see how that's "not anything to write home about" on a champ that uses all 3 stats effectively, and can keep stacks up stupidly easily (the only champ in the game that has an easier time keeping stacks is Nidalee). | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On November 10 2011 17:29 WaveofShadow wrote: Watching Dan Dinh play Skarner right now. Soloing 3 people at once, killing 2, getting away. Fights 1v2, wins. Whole enemy team (including fake Neo) complains about how imbalanced he is. Yet for the life of me I can't understand what Dan does differently from me. (In fights anyway. I know he's Dan Dinh and is shit tons better than I'll ever be, and I guess he was fed early, but I have NEVER been able to do that much damage with Skarner and not be squishy with the same friggin build.) Hmmm.... on second though I DID just notice Dan does not spam Q to clear minion waves....I'm assuming to save mana. He still has the same mana issues as I do when playing though even while saving up. The mana costs on W and E aren't trivial, and if you're able to auto-attack people you're going to be spamming them a lot. You're going to run out of mana in a protracted fight almost no matter what, but as long as you can spam W and E freely Skarner can be extremely hard to kill. Unless you have blue buff. Blue buff Skarner is scary. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
i'm so confused how this is a problem for you guys :c | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On November 10 2011 17:49 TheYango wrote: How are they not anything to write home about? 8-stack Rageblade is the most gold-efficient non-snowball item in the game for pure stats, period. I don't see how that's "not anything to write home about" on a champ that uses all 3 stats effectively, and can keep stacks up stupidly easily (the only champ in the game that has an easier time keeping stacks is Nidalee). Maybe it's just one of those things that I don't notice, I guess. With TF (or just Sheen), the damage output proc is considerably noticable, since you have it up for pretty much every other attack. With Skarner's base damage being one of the highest in the game (highest, tied with Cho), and his kit encouraging spamming abilities on cooldown, that proc is a huge addition of damage, adding 54.1 (+4.2/level to a max of 130) each proc, while Guinsoo's adds 35 on each attack. The passive on Rageblade is great, especially with his passive, but when you can get AS from TF without having to build it up, I think it's better to build towards. And the 45 AP from Rageblade only adds 27 health to the shield and 13 heal to Fracture. I think it's a nice item, but what you can get from other items, while maybe not as cost-efficient, I think skipping it is better. Maybe it's just a false correlation on my part, but whenever I do go for Rageblade (failed ganks, need a cheaper damage item, etc), I don't feel nearly as strong defensive or offensive wise as I would with Trinity or even it's pieces and a defensive item or two. Edit: i have literally never run out of mana or even gotten close when playing skarner i'm so confused how this is a problem for you guys :c I only really have mana issues when I stay out for 2+ clears and a gank without blue, and spam W and E. If you get denied blue, or lose it in a gank where you die, low level clears can be a bit mana intensive, since W and E actually have noticable mana costs, especially early on if you're not careful. At that point, it's usually better to get as far as you can just spamming Q and nothing else and/or going back to base more often. | ||
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STS17
United States1817 Posts
On November 11 2011 00:04 Requizen wrote: Maybe it's just one of those things that I don't notice, I guess. With TF (or just Sheen), the damage output proc is considerably noticable, since you have it up for pretty much every other attack. With Skarner's base damage being one of the highest in the game (highest, tied with Cho), and his kit encouraging spamming abilities on cooldown, that proc is a huge addition of damage, adding 54.1 (+4.2/level to a max of 130) each proc, while Guinsoo's adds 35 on each attack. The passive on Rageblade is great, especially with his passive, but when you can get AS from TF without having to build it up, I think it's better to build towards. And the 45 AP from Rageblade only adds 27 health to the shield and 13 heal to Fracture. I think it's a nice item, but what you can get from other items, while maybe not as cost-efficient, I think skipping it is better. Maybe it's just a false correlation on my part, but whenever I do go for Rageblade (failed ganks, need a cheaper damage item, etc), I don't feel nearly as strong defensive or offensive wise as I would with Trinity or even it's pieces and a defensive item or two. Edit: I only really have mana issues when I stay out for 2+ clears and a gank without blue, and spam W and E. If you get denied blue, or lose it in a gank where you die, low level clears can be a bit mana intensive, since W and E actually have noticable mana costs, especially early on if you're not careful. At that point, it's usually better to get as far as you can just spamming Q and nothing else and/or going back to base more often. You're neglecting the extra damage GRB gives on your Qs, which is not just single target but hits everyone around you. At the levels you're buying Sheen / GRB you are getting more damage off the GRB and it frees up ~2k gold to put towards defensive items that keep you alive longer to do more damage then Triforce does which is huge IMO. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On November 11 2011 02:30 STS17 wrote: You're neglecting the extra damage GRB gives on your Qs, which is not just single target but hits everyone around you. At the levels you're buying Sheen / GRB you are getting more damage off the GRB and it frees up ~2k gold to put towards defensive items that keep you alive longer to do more damage then Triforce does which is huge IMO. Perhaps, but here's my line of reasoning: That's an extra 46 damage on Q. Not bad for an AoE spell. However, for a first item we're talking pretty early in the game, which is when you're going to be ganking, not really teamfighting. You want to get that single target down fast, before they escape, for which Sheen is better. Even ganking bot lane, where there's going to be more than one person, you'll rarely hit both and even if you do, 46 damage on the secondary target isn't going to be a huge difference considering the lane mates will be mostly ignoring them until the primary target is killed. And in mid and top lane ganks, AoE damage is mostly wasted except on creeps. That said, I understand your reasoning, and maybe I'm just not noticing the impact it has. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23357 Posts
GRB adds like 65 damage or so to your Q but I'd be suprised if wits end gave you much less damage than GRB + great MR and no reliance on stacking it up. (2 hits+q is about the combo with some CDR from say blue buff, so like 2 hits with wits end vs 2 hits with GRB AD + 65 extra damage, the damage from ultimate and E is in there though, so I'm not sure, has to be factored in with the extra AS from wits and the fact that wits doesn't need to be stacked for damage) | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On November 11 2011 02:53 Slayer91 wrote: you save like 500 from buying defensive items with sheen+GRB and I'd argue the 300 health on triforce is compareable to the extra AP on shield from GRB, if not better. GRB adds like 65 damage or so to your Q but I'd be suprised if wits end gave you much less damage than GRB + great MR and no reliance on stacking it up. (2 hits+q is about the combo with some CDR from say blue buff, so like 2 hits with wits end vs 2 hits with GRB AD + 65 extra damage, the damage from ultimate and E is in there though, so I'm not sure, has to be factored in with the extra AS from wits and the fact that wits doesn't need to be stacked for damage) I do like the Triforce/Wits route unless I need a lot of armor, in which case I usually go for Randuin's or, in some cases, GA or Frozen Heart (very nice vs AA champs). It's brought me a lot of success so far. | ||
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Haasts
New Zealand4445 Posts
On October 22 2011 20:50 UniversalSnip wrote: I've been starting cloth and just buying ninja tabi on my first back, crazy ganks with level 2 boots and red a few minutes into the game. Man, this is ridiculously fun, especially with Nimbleness procs for extra zooming; while delaying yr razor hurts yr jungle speed a bit if yr ganks don't work out, the dodge gives yr shield a bit more uptime in the jungle for the AS/MS buff. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Anyway, I'm not a huge Tabi fan. It's great if the enemy team is mostly AD, but the early tenacity from Merc's helps ganks a lot (can't CC you and run), and you're getting armor from Wriggle's as it is. Situational, but not my go-to boots. | ||
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Haasts
New Zealand4445 Posts
On November 12 2011 06:12 Requizen wrote: Really? You got everything else grammatically correct and spelt right, but you can't type your? Anyway, I'm not a huge Tabi fan. It's great if the enemy team is mostly AD, but the early tenacity from Merc's helps ganks a lot (can't CC you and run), and you're getting armor from Wriggle's as it is. Situational, but not my go-to boots. Yr = stylistic tic from being an old-person Sonic Youth fan from alt.music.alternative days. Tabi were fun mainly from getting picked up a lot earlier than Mercs (after a first, full clear) - nobody really expects boots2+Nimbleness+red buff levels of speed five minutes or so in - but with the removal of Nimbleness from the revamped masteries, it's much of a muchness now. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On November 15 2011 13:00 TheYango wrote: The most hilarious thing about Skarner's ultimate has got to be how there's a split-second where people can still cast once you start it. Getting pulled through Flash/Janna ulti/etc. has got to be the most rage-inducing thing ever. my favorite is when you're closing in on a leesin to kill him and he tries to kick you away but as he does, you ult him so his kick carries him into your tower or team or whatnot. HILARIOUS. also after like 20 more skarner games, most of which i soloed top (and many, many of them which were losses), i have to say that jungle skarner is objectively better. it's not that skarner is BAD with farm, in fact he's awesome with farm, but the surprise gank factor of his ult and the fact that he *can* function on little-to-no farm means he's better suited for the jungle IMO. there are other champs like nasus/trynd/jax/irelia that function better with higher farm and can't jungle so yeah. give your top lane to a tru bruzer and control the jungle like the rock lobster you are (ps rock lobster skin OP) | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Farm-dependence doesn't dictate whether or not someone should be in lane or in jungle--there are plenty of junglers who need farm, but can pretty seamlessly pick up farm from lanes later, and likewise there are laners that can function on mediocre farm, and give up farm to their carries. What matters most how strong your skillset is for laning vs. jungling, and a lot of Skarner's advantages really shine out of the jungle. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23357 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
But yeah, one of the best junglers right now. Q slow is crazy good because it's basically infinite if you stick on top of the target, and it costs nothing. Q farming later in the game is so good, you can push lanes stupid fast with that and E.W's mobility is amazing in all points of the game. To me, he's one of the best because, like Udyr and (to a point) Nocturne, he has a place at all points in the game. He doesn't fall off, he can build tanky dps or (in some cases) straight tank, he can initiate, and he just disrupts everything and can 1v1 most people. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
initially i was leaning towards 21/9/0 or 21/0/9, taking both the %arpen and %mpen masteries. but 10% armor at level 4 is like.. 3 armor maybe. probably less after your flat reduction from arpen reds. same with mpen. i feel like skarner the way i built him s1 (0/14/16 with offensive runes) did enough damage on ganks without needing more, AND cleared at about 3:25, AND was a 1v1 god already. when you clear that fast, you only have 2 options, gank or steal enemy wolves. if i go full out offensive and shave off another 10 seconds maybe, what am i going to do with those 10 seconds? this isn't pirate here where full offense is going to catch him up to speed with other junglers, this is the frontrunner in speed getting faster - there's no point. so instead i'm going to try 0/21/9 for a stronger lategame and lots of MS for stronger ganks. skarner stays pretty high HP so initiator should be up for most of the time, and the cc reduction on juggernaut might prove really useful in ganks. especially with faster mercs. any thoughts? | ||
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