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On November 28 2011 14:34 broz0rs wrote:
I have been playing a lot of Pantheon and wish I purchased him a lot earlier.
What are your opinions about him in high level play in the current state of the game? (top lane of course)
My thoughts are that he's probably playable because he fucks people up for most of the laning phase, but that I'd almost always rather just play Gangplank because Gangplank does a lot of the same things in laning but scales way better with farm and has a more useful global presence.
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Wait, with redbuff procing off spells now, does it work for spear?
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tbh, bot lane pantheon is pretty fun, either do doublestun or panth + support and just shit all over ranged carries all day every day
and yes i believe red does work on spears
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keep it on the dl, but pantheon + leona is fucking bonkers bot lane. real hard to beat them straight up.
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United States37500 Posts
Leona is so gud. She'll be the new Ali soon.
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Lulziest bot lane I've seen in a while is Leona/Lux
The just lane along until one of them lands a snare, then they instantly stack absolutely every skill in one huge alpha strike that does like 4 billion damage and stunlocks the victim for about 20 seconds.
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On November 16 2011 10:02 gtrsrs wrote:
so what would you guys think about this *slight* buff to panth:
when your aegis shield is up, your spears apply on-hit effects
boom, a nice change that would allow you to get sheen->triforce, or have a stronger jungling panth, or make mallet + atma's better on him, without making him OP or fucking his skills?
well
this post looks absolutely fucking genius now 
haven't had a chance to mess around with redspear panth but i'm sure i will crush with it
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On December 01 2011 10:52 Xenocide_Knight wrote:
Wait, with redbuff procing off spells now, does it work for spear?
Yuuuuuuup. Spear with slow + DoT. Be even more annoying.
I *love* pantheon. Holyshit I don't know how I never discovered this guy early on. He's so fucking fun to play, and your lvl1 duels are HILARIOUS. No one can touch you 1v1 at lvl1. Riven? LOL rite. Trynd? Yeah he wishes. Renekton with cloth armor? You can still kill him at lvl1. The only problem imo is that you feel a lot like leblanc late game. Not many people can 1v1 you, and your burst damage is ridiculous, but you are soooo fragile in teamfights and if you don't crush your lane opponent you just lack anything late game.
I'm also not sure how he fits into the current meta. Panth *needs* to build serious damage to be relevant at all late game, and so you aren't able to really be a good tank. Top lane is usually where tanky champs rule, and so if you send Panth top instead of a bruiser, your team may lack a good tank. I personally prefer to run him mid, because you can really mess up a lot of casters too, (and obviously the ability to jump to both lanes is invaluable). But then your team may be lacking magic damage and need to run an AP champ elsewhere.
His lane strength is crazy though. Open dblade and you can seriously force people to recall or die at lvl1 or 2. Always spear never not spear and trade autos if they try to get anywhere near you. Once you hit 2, spear and jump on their face and just trade autos until they back up. *No one* can go toe to toe with you at this level, and you WILL force them to back off, and sometimes even get the early kill because a lot of players even at supposedly higher elos are simply not expecting to die at lvl1 and it somehow just doesn't register with them that "yuuup i can kill you already". They'll try to trade hits or last hit and forget all about your passive and your crazy damage output.
Using his passive well is super important too. Against other auto attackers it's what wins you the fight. As soon as your shield comes up, go start a fight. Right click on them and chuck a spear. If they run, yay, if they fight, yay! As soon as you block the first hit, W on them so you insta-proc another shield and block the next hit. You'll have done good damage by now and blocked 2 full autos which makes the trade look terrifyingly in your favor and they're likely to retreat. As they run, HSS them in the butt and chuck one last spear as it ends. EZPZ.
I'm still torn on runes for him though and I'm hoping people can help me out here. I'm not the best mathcrafter or whatnot and I've been experimenting with lots of different rune setups. Mainly only reds/quints I'm concerned about, and basically flat AD vs arpen. I used to run arpen marks and AD quints, but yesterday I was playing around with pure arpen and actually found myself dealing more damage than normal. Full arpen and a dorans opening is incredibly strong, but part of me also questions running full AD and starting the game with like +27 damage and chuck super death spears all day. What would be most efficient for panth?
I see Loci running panth a lot in ranked and so Loci if you read this please give me your thoughts! I love panth and I want to play him more in ranked games but I feel like unless I really REALLY crush my lane opponent, then I'm just not useful late game. I can insta-gib squishies with a Q->W->auto->E->Q combo late game, but if you get CC'd or focused you just explode. You're like a squishy AD carry that needs to be on the front lines. I just find him super hard to position. If your team lands great CC and you catch like 2-3 people in your E, ohhh my god you do crazy damage. But if you jump on someone and your team doesn't peel or anything and you get stunned, you're probably dead. Very GOBIGGOHOME champ. I also am not sure what summons to run. I always run ignite/flash and ignite is WONDERFUL in lane for early kills but late game I find myself seriously wishing I had another escape skill because I'm so damned fragile and super super vulnerable to CC T_T;
Oh, and you hard counter pirate like no one else in the game. Super fun match up. Block every Q huehuehuehue
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Had an interesting lane setup the other day: I was playing Pantheon/Lux with a friend bot lane for shits and giggles (although Pantheon/Leona sounds even stronger), and we had our AD mid and galio top. We had some ridiculous galio ults (including one with a tp) with a pantheon ult at the same time. So much fun.
Anyway - Pantheon mid is definitely viable if you send an anti-bruiser AP top. Ryze, Swain, Galio are all good, and will tank for you later in the game. Kennen can work too if you have a tanky jungle. Having Rammus on your team is just hilarious.
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Yes, Pantheon destroyes GP.
For quints, ArPen is better top, AD is better mid. Basically, as long as you're sure the ArPen won't be wasted, it's stronger. ArPen on reds, always.
ignite/flash is kinda necessary because without those early game kills, you're pretty useless. back in the old days I liked ghost + flash, but I just feel like you have a hard time securing kills in lane without ignite.
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On December 02 2011 01:12 Haemonculus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 10:52 Xenocide_Knight wrote:
Wait, with redbuff procing off spells now, does it work for spear? Yuuuuuuup. Spear with slow + DoT. Be even more annoying. I *love* pantheon. Holyshit I don't know how I never discovered this guy early on. He's so fucking fun to play, and your lvl1 duels are HILARIOUS. No one can touch you 1v1 at lvl1. Riven? LOL rite. Trynd? Yeah he wishes. Renekton with cloth armor? You can still kill him at lvl1. The only problem imo is that you feel a lot like leblanc late game. Not many people can 1v1 you, and your burst damage is ridiculous, but you are soooo fragile in teamfights and if you don't crush your lane opponent you just lack anything late game. I'm also not sure how he fits into the current meta. Panth *needs* to build serious damage to be relevant at all late game, and so you aren't able to really be a good tank. Top lane is usually where tanky champs rule, and so if you send Panth top instead of a bruiser, your team may lack a good tank. I personally prefer to run him mid, because you can really mess up a lot of casters too, (and obviously the ability to jump to both lanes is invaluable). But then your team may be lacking magic damage and need to run an AP champ elsewhere. His lane strength is crazy though. Open dblade and you can seriously force people to recall or die at lvl1 or 2. Always spear never not spear and trade autos if they try to get anywhere near you. Once you hit 2, spear and jump on their face and just trade autos until they back up. *No one* can go toe to toe with you at this level, and you WILL force them to back off, and sometimes even get the early kill because a lot of players even at supposedly higher elos are simply not expecting to die at lvl1 and it somehow just doesn't register with them that "yuuup i can kill you already". They'll try to trade hits or last hit and forget all about your passive and your crazy damage output. Using his passive well is super important too. Against other auto attackers it's what wins you the fight. As soon as your shield comes up, go start a fight. Right click on them and chuck a spear. If they run, yay, if they fight, yay! As soon as you block the first hit, W on them so you insta-proc another shield and block the next hit. You'll have done good damage by now and blocked 2 full autos which makes the trade look terrifyingly in your favor and they're likely to retreat. As they run, HSS them in the butt and chuck one last spear as it ends. EZPZ. I'm still torn on runes for him though and I'm hoping people can help me out here. I'm not the best mathcrafter or whatnot and I've been experimenting with lots of different rune setups. Mainly only reds/quints I'm concerned about, and basically flat AD vs arpen. I used to run arpen marks and AD quints, but yesterday I was playing around with pure arpen and actually found myself dealing more damage than normal. Full arpen and a dorans opening is incredibly strong, but part of me also questions running full AD and starting the game with like +27 damage and chuck super death spears all day. What would be most efficient for panth? I see Loci running panth a lot in ranked and so Loci if you read this please give me your thoughts! I love panth and I want to play him more in ranked games but I feel like unless I really REALLY crush my lane opponent, then I'm just not useful late game. I can insta-gib squishies with a Q->W->auto->E->Q combo late game, but if you get CC'd or focused you just explode. You're like a squishy AD carry that needs to be on the front lines. I just find him super hard to position. If your team lands great CC and you catch like 2-3 people in your E, ohhh my god you do crazy damage. But if you jump on someone and your team doesn't peel or anything and you get stunned, you're probably dead. Very GOBIGGOHOME champ. I also am not sure what summons to run. I always run ignite/flash and ignite is WONDERFUL in lane for early kills but late game I find myself seriously wishing I had another escape skill because I'm so damned fragile and super super vulnerable to CC T_T; Oh, and you hard counter pirate like no one else in the game. Super fun match up. Block every Q huehuehuehue
Your analysis is pretty accurate. I don't like him top because at top elo the junglers know how easily he is ganked, and you'll just get abused 2v1. Even if the jungler sits top and doesn't farm his jungle that much a pantheon with no farm is completely useless so it doesn't even matter, the game will be 4v5 while panth tries to farm. I don't like him top simply because of that. You can usually get around the whole "not having a bruiser" top be getting a jungler to pick a pretty tanky champ like amumu or malph.
I prefer him mid. You're against people with low armor and weaker early games. This is a situation where Panth thrives. You're less easily ganked mid as well due to the short lane distance. For Mid I would recommend damage quints and ArPen reds. For Top you'll want full armor pen as Smash said. Mid is also better because you can ult either top or bot (usually bot is the place to go, you can get a double and dragon off of it usually). I just build him pure damage and go big or go home (bruta, 2x bloodthirster last whisper and maybe atmogs, you'll have upwards of 400 damage with 1500+ damage heartseekers). Late game is hard because you're a squishy champ who gets crushed by any sort of CC and you have zero mobility. The only way I've gotten around it is to simply play smart. Don't use your E on the target you want to kill, use it to reposition yourself. The 1 second stun isn't nearly enough to justify jumping a carry next to a support, you'll simply get exhausted and get destroyed. So pay attention during teamfights and try to use your E to jump OUT of a shitstorm if you find yourself in one. You pretty much just have to outplay people hard lategame, lol.
Glad to see you like Pantheon, he's fun! =D
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Has anyone experimented with pantheon in the new jungle? If he can clear it decently (maybe with HSS level first?), red buff spear and stun could be brutal.
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On December 02 2011 05:58 HAL9OOO wrote:
Has anyone experimented with pantheon in the new jungle? If he can clear it decently (maybe with HSS level first?), red buff spear and stun could be brutal.
na, HSS too weak vs. non-champs. Panth jungle has always chewed through mana too quickly and been too slow, even when level 1 spear was 30 mana.
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On December 02 2011 05:56 Craton wrote:
Hmm, by E do you mean W?
Yes, fail, I meant W.
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Panth mid and Swain top sounds pretty legit, as both really fuck with the typical roles in each lane really well. Problem is it's impossible to hide your intentions with picks like that(you'd have to pick both last, and might still be vulnerable to simple lane swaps). Hard to fit him into the meta outside of soloQ.
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Loci what's your take on dblades on panth? I usually build 2 before moving on to big damage items. You recommend any? More? Or is it situational?
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On December 02 2011 10:05 Haemonculus wrote:
Loci what's your take on dblades on panth? I usually build 2 before moving on to big damage items. You recommend any? More? Or is it situational?
Only time I don't get 2 dblades is if I can go back to shop and buy a straight up BF sword on my first time back to base (faster BT the better). If I can't do that I simply go 2x dblade into bruta into BT.
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My Pantheon raped Rainman's Udyr so hard that he ragequit last night, trolololo.
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United States37500 Posts
On December 03 2011 00:50 Mogwai wrote:
My Pantheon raped Rainman's Udyr so hard that he ragequit last night, trolololo.
wtb rep/vod
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EPT
