EPT[Champion] Pantheon - Page 48
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General Tso
22 Posts
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On August 27 2012 00:36 Ghost-z wrote: What makes Guardian Angel better than Warmogs on Pantheon? My thinking is that the sustain from warmogs would be more beneficial than the revive since I'm usually not diving carries but instead peeling for my own carries. And my first thought was that his passive has better synergies with HP than resists. His passive doesn't synergize with either, actually. The amount your passive blocks is linked to how much your opponents autos doe rather than your total HP/resists/ehp. GA (revives you with 750 HP, has 68 armo, 38 MR)is awesome because it just gives more effective hit points than Warmog (975HP+stacking) assuming the refresh is active, and it costs 400 gold less. And actually, I've been building Aegis on Pantheon a lot recently, feels like you get it at a nicer breakpoint than GA. I do quite like having Aegis/GA/HPitem here. | ||
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On August 27 2012 03:32 iCanada wrote: His passive doesn't synergize with either, actually. The amount your passive blocks is linked to how much your opponents autos doe rather than your total HP/resists/ehp. GA (revives you with 750 HP, has 68 armo, 38 MR)is awesome because it just gives more effective hit points than Warmog (975HP+stacking) assuming the refresh is active, and it costs 400 gold less. And actually, I've been building Aegis on Pantheon a lot recently, feels like you get it at a nicer breakpoint than GA. I do quite like having Aegis/GA/HPitem here. GA gives 750 HP every 5 minutes, while warmogs give 1350 every 1 min. which is a big difference (150/1350). You can trade armor, MR for health regen. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On August 27 2012 03:41 bokeevboke wrote: GA gives 750 HP every 5 minutes, while warmogs give 1350 every 1 min. which is a big difference (150/1350). You can trade armor, MR for health regen. This is true, regen is really solid, however I'd much rather have GA proc and resists in a teamfight than a warmogs. Just a better teamfight item. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
Also the lifesteal from BT works better in combo with resists than flat HP so is it effective to build Aegis then GA after damage items? Basically boots > Bruta > BT > Aegis > GA would be the all around build. What boots are best on pantheon? Are the resists from Aegis and GA enough to warrant Berzerkers Greaves early game? I've seen people recommending it on some builds but Pantheon doesn't rely on autos enough to make it more cost effective than defensive boots does he? | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
If you roaming a lot i'd consider Boots of Mobility. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
Mercs,Bruta,BT,GA Physical Damage Health: 5,103 (+1359.32) Magical Damage Health: 4,308 (+1259.37) Effective Hit Points: 4,706 (+1309.35) Mercs,Bruta,BT,Aegis Physical Damage Health: 4,931 (+1186.41) Magical Damage Health: 4,912 (+1863.91) Effective Hit Points: 4,921 (+1525.16) Mercs,Bruta,BT,Warmogs (full stacks) Physical Damage Health: 6,123 (+2378.71) Magical Damage Health: 5,802 (+2754) Effective Hit Points: 5,963 (+2566.36) Looking at base stats alone Warmogs easily out classes the other two defensive items at this stage of the game. It's also slightly more expensive. Interestingly Aegis is slightly better than GA for raw stats so it just comes down to would you rather have the respawn or the team aura. I will definitely switch out GA for Aegis in my builds because it's cheaper, better base stats, and supports my team. Although if I am fed I will go instead for the warmogs  | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On August 27 2012 04:23 Ghost-z wrote: I did some numbers on the builds using the Champion builder on leaguecraft.com Mercs,Bruta,BT,GA Physical Damage Health: 5,103 (+1359.32) Magical Damage Health: 4,308 (+1259.37) Effective Hit Points: 4,706 (+1309.35) Mercs,Bruta,BT,Aegis Physical Damage Health: 4,931 (+1186.41) Magical Damage Health: 4,912 (+1863.91) Effective Hit Points: 4,921 (+1525.16) Mercs,Bruta,BT,Warmogs (full stacks) Physical Damage Health: 6,123 (+2378.71) Magical Damage Health: 5,802 (+2754) Effective Hit Points: 5,963 (+2566.36) Looking at base stats alone Warmogs easily out classes the other two defensive items at this stage of the game. It's also slightly more expensive. Interestingly Aegis is slightly better than GA for raw stats so it just comes down to would you rather have the respawn or the team aura. I will definitely switch out GA for Aegis in my builds because it's cheaper, better base stats, and supports my team. Although if I am fed I will go instead for the warmogs Your GA numbers are off, you need to add the 750 HP you respawn with. GA is definitely a much stronger personal defensive item than Aegis or Warmogs when you factor in the revive in teamfight. You are also able to play really ballsy with it too. So at 18 with GA you'd have 1999 base HP (although realisitcally you likely have dblades) as well as the 750 from GA revive in a teamfight giving you 2749 hp. So you eHP vs armor would be 2749*(1+1.55)= 7009.95, and an eHP against magic of 2749*(1+1.16)=5937.84. GA>Warmogs. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On August 27 2012 05:04 Ryuu314 wrote: To add to what iCanada said, there's also the fact that Warmogs is quite a bit mroe expensive than either GA or Aegis. Not to mention the amount of farm/kills/assists you'll need to stack it. Not only that, but you're completely forgetting about the ehp you gain from your lifesteal, which scales better with resists. Yeah, this too. In terms of gold efficiency Aegis>GA>Warmog. Not to say that Warmogs isn't a good item, but i'd much rather have just a GA than just a Warmogs. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
I'm not sure if your Effective HP calculators are off or not due to wrong armor/life values. Try to consider how much magic and armor pen enemies will likely have. I don't use builders anymore. I find that they're wrong way too often. Add in that armor and mr work better with health pots for sustaining in lane, or with sustain abilities, and that having extra health can help combat true damage from ignite in lanes where everything is decided in one trade, and your math starts to look pretty shabby. Consider that GA isn't up for every team fight if you die and you lose out on even more there. GA can help you revive but you might be reviving to 5 people waiting to chain stun you or you might revive and have all your CD's off and be able to put some hurt on your enemy squishies. Most pros have no idea what items are efficient or are not. They just know that they can win some games with the skills they have and the items they chose. Most items are situational. I recommend you throw this kind of math out the window and try things out. The best kind of analysis comes from replays. | ||
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Brambled
United States750 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On December 28 2012 08:57 Alaric wrote: 21-9-0 typically, I guess you could get away with 21-0-9 in some easy lanes (mp5 for more spear harass, stuff like that). The first 11 points in defensive are so much weaker now than they were in season 2, so I always run 9 utility for mana regen/summoner spell CDR/Buff Duration. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Most people seemed to buy dblades->bruta->BT in s2, even when they could straight up BFS (with or without dblades), and they seem to have kept that in s3, going straight up bruta->BC in every single case. I feel like it's a good item for late game peeler Panth, when you can stun and immediatly shred anyone diving your carry, but that it's a total waste of Panth's midgame compared to BT, even when there's other sources of damage on your team. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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M2
Bulgaria4186 Posts
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LoCicero
1100 Posts
The idea is to max out your CDR and utilize your heartseeker your massive Armor shredding. You should be peeling for your ADC with your short cd stun and your armor reduction. If not, you can try diving their ADC with your ult. Bruta Boots Longswords + Ruby Crystal Convert the Bruta into a Black Cleaver and then buy another Bruta with the longswords. Afterwards buy yourself a Spirit Visage. At this point you should have: Black Cleaver Bruta Spirit Visage Mercs or Dodge Boots Note: Now you have 40% CDR and your mid game core is essentially done. At this point you shouldn't really be getting more damage for a long time. You should just try to get tanky using your own discretion. Usually I get a warmogs and a randuins and then get a last whisper for my bruta spot (you can use a blue pot to keep your CDR capped later on). ALso, something worth investing in during the midgame is a vamp scepter. using panth's passive crit it can help you get some life back relatively easily. You can replace the last whisper with a BT in the build below if you feel it necessary. Your end game build should be something along the lines of: Black Cleaver Last Whisper (or BT if you opted for the vamp scepter) Boots Warmogs Spirit Visage Randuins/some armor item I've had some success with it, and I think it's worth giving a shot. | ||
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