On December 05 2012 19:54 Mogwai wrote:
keep it on the dl, but

ghostblade -> iceborn gauntlet -> spirit visage is the perfect core on Xin right now.

I tried it but its so hard to get. And it takes forever. I can get ghotsblade at earlierst 15 min mark. Is that normal?

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

December 30 2012 02:17 GMT

#304

does anyone think spirit stone is better on xin jungle if you're maxing E? That and you can get a nice damage item for 1600 whenever you feel like, compared to not having any damage items when going wriggles.

Slayer91

Ireland23340 Posts

December 30 2012 13:20 GMT

#305

yeah madreds and especially wriggles have terrible cost efficiency nowadays.

spirit of the ancient golem+cdr boots+brutalizer+spirit visage is 40% cdr and good hp/damage/mr/armour and tenacity

I see a lot of wriggles sunfire stuff but it doesnt make sense really. Spirit of the ancient golem is probably better than sunfire on xin for jungling and it's cheaper and gives tenacity letting you go for cdr later.

petered

United States1817 Posts

December 30 2012 16:42 GMT

#306

On December 29 2012 21:23 Zato-1 wrote:

Show nested quote +

From the chinese sound for "Zh"

I was under the impression that the Chinese sound for Zh was closer to a J sound. I guess there is a soft d sound just before the J, but usually I find it easier to describe as a J.

But I am no expert on Chinese obviously.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

January 01 2013 17:57 GMT

#307

On December 29 2012 23:26 SixSongs wrote:

Show nested quote +

I tried it but its so hard to get. And it takes forever. I can get ghotsblade at earlierst 15 min mark. Is that normal?

pretty much. you'll also notice if you read more of the thread, I updated that core to replace iceborn with Black Cleaver, and while we're on that subject, you can do either cleaver for blowing people up or locket for surviving. I was embarrassingly unaware of locket up until like 3 weeks ago.

On December 30 2012 22:20 Slayer91 wrote:
yeah madreds and especially wriggles have terrible cost efficiency nowadays.

spirit of the ancient golem+cdr boots+brutalizer+spirit visage is 40% cdr and good hp/damage/mr/armour and tenacity

I see a lot of wriggles sunfire stuff but it doesnt make sense really. Spirit of the ancient golem is probably better than sunfire on xin for jungling and it's cheaper and gives tenacity letting you go for cdr later.

the wriggle's upgrade is 100 gold for 5 Armor, 5 AD, +200 damage to your procs (50 damage/attack on creeps), and a ward every 3 minutes. I dunno how you can say that wriggle's is worse cost efficiency than madreds. I dunno man, I can get the distaste for madred's items from a theorycrafting level, but in practice, it feels like an incredibly drastic increase in jungling speed on single target junglers and post madred's, wriggle's is very efficient. Even though I'm maxing E during levels 7-10, I still don't use it much in the jungle, as using E to clear camps typically leaves you struggling on mana, which makes ganking much more difficult.

Slayer91

Ireland23340 Posts

January 01 2013 17:59 GMT

#308

yeah iceborn isn't that great on xin, BC or ghostblade with locket for armour is pretty much better, you can get the 4% cdr from offensive for the extra 5% missing and be happy with 39% or get the 1% from runes(1 cdr/lvl blue).

I dont much like spirit visage, it's not amazingly efficient but since you use all the stats it's decent.

Alaric

France45622 Posts

January 01 2013 20:53 GMT

#309

Ghostblade->BC->SV is also very awkward because it leaves you with figuratively 0 armor unless you built tabi, so past the skirmishes point where you just blow up anyone that shows and group for a free 5v4 objective, you really can't initiate fights or dive before cc has been spent/the main physical source on their team is clearly available for you to burst. Locket gives as much CDR, the shield is pretty good with your ult and the cost is so low compared to BC, with a very smooth build path. Nothing stops you from getting BC later if you need it or to stack more armor with randuin's.

Slayer91

Ireland23340 Posts

January 01 2013 21:30 GMT

#310

It just makes me sad to buy wriggles after how much it's nerfed, but I guess its probably easier to go wriggles mercs than going for the spirit of the ancient golem. Lifesteal saves on pots in general. I just see the nerfs from the old 19% lifesteal 23 ad 30 armor wriggles

The only reason I like spirit stone because spirit of the ancient golem is like 30 armour and tenacity for very cheap.

Zess

Adun Toridas!9144 Posts

January 01 2013 21:32 GMT

#311

Why not skip the 900g for wriggles upgrade and go madreds -> chain vest?

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

January 01 2013 21:40 GMT

#312

i get madreds for early dragon control then emblem of valor, then either locket or aegis.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

January 02 2013 17:58 GMT

#313

On January 02 2013 06:30 Slayer91 wrote:
It just makes me sad to buy wriggles after how much it's nerfed, but I guess its probably easier to go wriggles mercs than going for the spirit of the ancient golem. Lifesteal saves on pots in general. I just see the nerfs from the old 19% lifesteal 23 ad 30 armor wriggles

The only reason I like spirit stone because spirit of the ancient golem is like 30 armour and tenacity for very cheap.

right, well, wriggle's isn't apeshit OP anymore, but if madred's makes sense on your character, wriggle's is still an efficient upgrade. I still like ancient golem, but I just don't find that xin has the base damage/mana necessary to still clear camps efficiently if he goes spirit stone.

On January 02 2013 06:40 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i get madreds for early dragon control then emblem of valor, then either locket or aegis.

The more I've been thinking, the more I'm wondering about just going double kindlegem after bruta in lane and madred's/wriggle's in jungle. have you tried builds like this? with his ult, Xin's strongest defensive stat is HP, and CDR is beast mode on him, so a build that just gets a bunch of HP/CDR early and transitions to locket/zeke's/visage as necessary seems pretty darn strong.

sylverfyre

United States8298 Posts

January 02 2013 18:14 GMT

#314

I still feel divided on getting madreds at all - it seems like you could probably skip it entirely (run with machete only) if you're buying other offensive items, doesn't it? I guess it does provide a significant amount of dragon / jungle control for someone like Xin who doesn't automatically have a ridiculous clear speed.

Slayer91

Ireland23340 Posts

January 02 2013 18:36 GMT

#315

Kindlegems don't stack, you know. Brutalizer+locket works in most top lanes, you can get another kindlegem afterwards.

Wriggles seemed good on riven,and probably xin for jungle. Shaco and lee are the other guys who kinda want it. Not sure if anyone else aside from niche junglers do though.

Alaric

France45622 Posts

January 02 2013 19:52 GMT

#316

Do you consider Trundle one of those niche junglers?

VayneAuthority

United States8983 Posts

January 02 2013 20:20 GMT

#317

for top lane Xin ive started just rushing ghostblade and going balls deep all day every day working pretty well so far.

Slayer91

Ireland23340 Posts

January 02 2013 20:23 GMT

#318

niche junglers is a PC way of saying shitty junglers

BlasiuS

United States2405 Posts

January 04 2013 22:24 GMT

#319

Has anyone tried a glass cannon SotD build for xin? I've tried it a few times in dominion, it blows up people so fast. The bonus damage from Q can crit, and both Q and SotD last for 3 attacks, how's that for synergy? I've never tried it on summoner's rift, and wondering if anyone has had any success with it.