I think VayneAuthority was advocating Q max with good success. Personally, I think E max is better/easier to pull off, but Q max can be really strong if you can consistently land all 3 Q hits on your lane opponent.

Regardless, you'll almost always want to level W last, cause the cd reduction on leveling Q/E is just too strong to pass up.

Slayer91

Ireland23340 Posts

January 27 2013 18:39 GMT

#342

Level 1--5 q +180 damage -4 s cd
Level 1-5 e +160 damage -4 s cd

now considering E is a gap closer, a slow, is your only magic damage spell and is aoe for farming creep the only possible argument for maxing q is you can spam it more because it costs less mana

ArchAngelSC

England706 Posts

January 27 2013 20:44 GMT

#343

On January 28 2013 01:41 zulu_nation8 wrote:
I think everyone agrees that maxing E is the best, the only debate is whether to max w or q after, KT jungler maxes w, everyone else maxes Q second. Apen reds and aspd quints should be the standard. This is for jungle xin.

I max W second cause AS is too good on xin. Idk the math on if it gives more burst or not but either way you're still going to want to be getting your knockup as quickly as possible when ganking.

Slayer91

Ireland23340 Posts

January 27 2013 20:55 GMT

#344

It really isn't

Getting your knock up a bit faster isn't a huge deal since if they have flash you probably won't get it anyway and if you don't the slow is often enough it's very niche cases where you need that extra attack speed.

Xins attack speed scaling was when W made every auto attack reduce cd by 1 second, now that it's just flat 3 hits AS is easily his worst damage stat. (ignoring ap becuase lol)

ArchAngelSC

England706 Posts

January 27 2013 21:27 GMT

#345

AS is better for clearing camps/doing drag than maxing Q. More hits == more wriggle procs.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

January 27 2013 21:47 GMT

#346

On January 28 2013 06:27 ArchAngelSC wrote:
AS is better for clearing camps/doing drag than maxing Q. More hits == more wriggle procs.

I'm pretty much positive that Q gives you more damage output from the reduced CD (which effectively reduces all your CDs) and increased damage on Q. I don't feel like running the math, but I'm roughly 99% sure that even with wriggle's, Q max over W will do more DPS to jungle mobs.

czylu

477 Posts

January 28 2013 00:21 GMT

#347

On January 09 2013 01:01 HOOG wrote:
The most important part to playing Xin is to play this song on repeat:

and make a man out of everyone who crosses your path!

edit: wow, just posting the link makes the youtube video embedded? You are fantastic TL :D

...

that video is perfect xin zhao!

Alaric

France45622 Posts

January 28 2013 00:41 GMT

#348

No, this one is. Time to learn your classics.

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

January 28 2013 04:14 GMT

#349

something ive realized or maybe its only me but, I think in solo queue, you have to build xin as a carry jungler with wriggles sunfire or warmogs, without wriggles you clear too slow because in solo queue you get a lot less time to farm. You have to build carry items and sometimes damage or else you'll be useless later, no one actually plays support junglers like supports in solo queue except for nunu. I can't seem to win when i build locket/aegis and stuff.

Slayer91

Ireland23340 Posts

January 28 2013 14:47 GMT

#350

what

wriggles kinda sucks, better get madreds, mobility boots and then locket and bruatalizer and shit. Just do a standard xin build from top lane but make it a bit tankier because you're a jungle.

the whole "support" and "carry" jungle thing is just a load of non sense that I only see around TL. A tank can force a win in a teamfight just like a dps can, being farmed is being farmed, doesn't matter too much what items you buy. Sunfire doesn't make much sense anyway. The erason aegis doesn't work that well for you is that xin mostly wants hp and cdr and a bit of damage, you're investing way too much for an underfarmed jungle to spend over 3k on an aegis which nearly a spirit visage and a brutalizer.

xin is a gank dependent jungle but mobility boots can be so crazy on him, the other day I killed a cass mid twice after she killed our mid because she was in mid lane and i just run up and e her and she cant react in time.

sofawall

29 Posts

January 28 2013 14:50 GMT

#351

That's because in higher-level play, you can rely on your team actually having damage from the carries. If you can't rely on your team having damage, it means you need to rely on the enemy team not having damage, and the best way to do that is to kill their damage whenever it appears. That means building slightly more assassin-like than the pros do.

Heck, if the enemy is farming as poorly as your team, their carry will probably also lack damage, and your lack of tankyness will only be a problem in towerdives.

Slayer91

Ireland23340 Posts

January 28 2013 15:07 GMT

#352

but he's not even advocating that, hes advocating going sunfire and lantern and i don't really understand it

Ghostblade locket black cleaver last whisper is a really good "carry" xin build if you want. But in any case it's not about your time doing damage. If you can kill their ad and ap carry it doesn't matter if you're mostly tank items because they don't have any damage either

obesechicken13

United States10467 Posts

January 28 2013 15:40 GMT

#353

On January 28 2013 23:47 Slayer91 wrote:
what

wriggles kinda sucks, better get madreds, mobility boots and then locket and bruatalizer and shit. Just do a standard xin build from top lane but make it a bit tankier because you're a jungle.

I wish Madreds BR still existed.

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

January 28 2013 17:04 GMT

#354

I'm advocating wriggles/sunfire for faster clear in mid game. I find it extremely hard to not fall behind with Xin even if you're doing a lot of work. You need to be able to shove those sidelanes well or else you're gonna fall more and more behind vs. a carry jungler a game goes on.

Slayer91

Ireland23340 Posts

January 28 2013 17:15 GMT

#355

Your E Q combo can kill the ranged creeps, and you just finish the melee ones then. You shouldn't excessively build to farm because you should be fairly active as xin in fights around the map and often you get the money you need from assists and kills.

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

January 28 2013 17:30 GMT

#356

Its really not that excessive, wriggles helps you a lot more with early dragons too. I just think sunfire is the ultimate solo queue jungler item because of the tank/damage and pushing power. Obv don't get it vs AP damage. After experimenting and losing games I truly believe that running madreds + like 9/21 or pure aspd no damage runes or 21/9 and pure aspd runes make you clear way too slow. Most of the games where I get behind are basically, I overroam early, get some work done, meanwhile the other jungler whos usually has faster clear holds lanes and afk jungles, then suddenly he's two levels ahead of me and I can't do anything. I shove lanes, tax correctly etc. This is only in solo queue. In 5's I rarely lv3 gank and almost always jungle until at least the first wave of wards expire.

Slayer91

Ireland23340 Posts

January 28 2013 17:39 GMT

#357

Usually if you get enough work done with the ganks the lane advantages should be enough to offset an jungle xp disadvantage. As long as you don't die too much it shouldn't be a huge deal. I had these types of games too where I have a bad start and never come back, but also had games where I came back really fast even though their jungle got real fed and I started 0/2/0 or something.

wriggles sunfire is 3.5k gold or something that you spend and so far has 0 cdr and 0 bonus arm pen and only 1k worth of bonus health which are the 3 of your best stats.

locket brualizer is cheaper, more damage, more health, 20% cdr and gives an aura to boot.

h3r1n6

Iceland2039 Posts

January 28 2013 17:46 GMT

#358

Now that I see this thread, I want to be a man again. Wouldn't Spirit of the Elder Lizard be pretty good?

To me it seems that Xin really wants CDR, due to the way Q reduces the other cooldowns, which is similar to the way Ryze passive works.

Roffles

Pitcairn19291 Posts

January 28 2013 17:54 GMT

#359

On January 29 2013 02:46 h3r1n6 wrote:
Now that I see this thread, I want to be a man again. Wouldn't Spirit of the Elder Lizard be pretty good?

To me it seems that Xin really wants CDR, due to the way Q reduces the other cooldowns, which is similar to the way Ryze passive works.

Wiggles just gives too good, plus it gives him good clearing speed and drag control early on. The difference in Razer vs Spirit Stone is immense on Xin. You can get Kindlegem + Wiggles for the same price as Elder Lizard without sacrificing the early game with worthless stats such as mana/health regen.

h3r1n6

Iceland2039 Posts

January 28 2013 18:39 GMT

#360

I usually don't see health and mana regen as a worthless stat, but I have no idea how sustained Xins clear is currently. Well and you are right, the spirit stone 20% extra damage doesn't compare at all to the razor procs on an autoattack heavy champ.