On July 21 2011 22:18 cascades wrote: Just had a player did this most effective tactic: How to play annie: Cast W/R when they up => hope for doublecast => win lane/get kill.
Yup it works. Just cast shit when ur ulti is off cd. If bug occurs => get kill. Bug no occur => enemy forced to back and lose farm. Can't lose.
From what I've read on gen discussion and from my own play as Annie I don't think anyone can reproduce the bug. Or, at the very least, I don't think your suggestion will reproduce the bug and if anyone does now how to get that bug to work they haven't told anyone yet. Hopefully Riot can fix all of these Annie bugs, it's getting annoying. If someone does figure out how to reproduce the bug please just report it to Riot rather than posting it on TL and encouraging people to do it.
I've decided to change my masteries to what several people have suggested. I've been getting blue buff more in recent games as Annie and while it still isn't necessary the other options for her just aren't that great. I still put a point in Greed though as I think it's better than an extra point in Meditation or a point in Expanded Mind.
Well supposedly there is way to reproduce it. But you guys are totally missing 2nd part, its annoying. Even if you fail to bug, so? You still force other guy back.
On July 23 2011 04:39 overt wrote: I've decided to change my masteries to what several people have suggested. I've been getting blue buff more in recent games as Annie and while it still isn't necessary the other options for her just aren't that great. I still put a point in Greed though as I think it's better than an extra point in Meditation or a point in Expanded Mind.
IMO 1 point Meditation > 1 point Haste. 1 mp5 feels more significant than 3-4 movespeed. But at this point the difference is really splitting hairs.
On July 23 2011 04:42 cascades wrote: Well supposedly there is way to reproduce it. But you guys are totally missing 2nd part, its annoying. Even if you fail to bug, so? You still force other guy back.
I don't think exploiting the fact that there's a bug is a good way to improve your game though. You get the bug to work and you get a free kill. You don't get the bug to work and now your ult is gone and they have to back. But Annie with ult on CD means her killing potential plummets and you'd be better off setting up guaranteed kills instead of just mashing your full combo every time your ult is up hoping for the bug. It isn't going to make you better at this game and even worse you'll be getting kills and probably wins you don't deserve all because of an exploit. Seems pretty pointless to me.
If you find some way to reproduce it just report it to Riot so it can hopefully be hotfixed soon.
On July 23 2011 04:39 overt wrote: I've decided to change my masteries to what several people have suggested. I've been getting blue buff more in recent games as Annie and while it still isn't necessary the other options for her just aren't that great. I still put a point in Greed though as I think it's better than an extra point in Meditation or a point in Expanded Mind.
IMO 1 point Meditation > 1 point Haste. 1 mp5 feels more significant than 3-4 movespeed. But at this point the difference is really splitting hairs.
Yeah, it's pretty insignificant. I think I take the movespeed on casters over the mp5 because it's higher up on the tree and thus I assume it has to be better. I don't think it's a big enough difference though to be very noticeable.
On July 23 2011 04:42 cascades wrote: Well supposedly there is way to reproduce it. But you guys are totally missing 2nd part, its annoying. Even if you fail to bug, so? You still force other guy back.
I don't think exploiting the fact that there's a bug is a good way to improve your game though. You get the bug to work and you get a free kill. You don't get the bug to work and now your ult is gone and they have to back. But Annie with ult on CD means her killing potential plummets and you'd be better off setting up guaranteed kills instead of just mashing your full combo every time your ult is up hoping for the bug. It isn't going to make you better at this game and even worse you'll be getting kills and probably wins you don't deserve all because of an exploit. Seems pretty pointless to me.
If you find some way to reproduce it just report it to Riot so it can hopefully be hotfixed soon.
On July 23 2011 04:39 overt wrote: I've decided to change my masteries to what several people have suggested. I've been getting blue buff more in recent games as Annie and while it still isn't necessary the other options for her just aren't that great. I still put a point in Greed though as I think it's better than an extra point in Meditation or a point in Expanded Mind.
IMO 1 point Meditation > 1 point Haste. 1 mp5 feels more significant than 3-4 movespeed. But at this point the difference is really splitting hairs.
Yeah, it's pretty insignificant. I think I take the movespeed on casters over the mp5 because it's higher up on the tree and thus I assume it has to be better. I don't think it's a big enough difference though to be very noticeable.
I am not recommending people use bug. I meant that annie needs to be banned because while annie's bug is obnoxious, I have seen 2 players in ranked exploiting this "tactic". For most annies that want kills when they ult, the bug doesn't come up as often.
It also set me thinking -If you have blue, would this be valid even without bug if you facing a good player? (Aka one that doesn't stay in oneshot range)
2) AoE bug: When something dies between casting an AoE spell and the animation that deals damage when that dead thing is in AoE range will make the AoE dump double damage onto the closest possible target. Double damage tibbers, lux l@z0r, veigar, morde, etc. while some sources indicate this may work on all or most AoE heroes, some sources indicate it only works (usually) on morde. I am currently unable to test this.
3) Annie bug: This may be just bug #2 or a separate bug. Seems double hitting smartcast key of incinerate or tibbers will make it deal double damage. Morde's E has the same bug.
2) AoE bug: When something dies between casting an AoE spell and the animation that deals damage when that dead thing is in AoE range will make the AoE dump double damage onto the closest possible target. Double damage tibbers, lux l@z0r, veigar, morde, etc. while some sources indicate this may work on all or most AoE heroes, some sources indicate it only works (usually) on morde. I am currently unable to test this.
3) Annie bug: This may be just bug #2 or a separate bug. Seems double hitting smartcast key of incinerate or tibbers will make it deal double damage. Morde's E has the same bug.
Annie double hit using smartcast doesn't work anymore. That was already fixed. I just tested in custom game to make sure.
From what I've seen/heard the current bug with her tibbers/W is the same bug that effects Morde's E and Lux ult. It seems true that it happens when something dies, so if you think an Annie is abusing it try to steer clear of near dead minions.
Buy frostfire annie. The skin makes her whirly stun charge indicator almost impossible to see when she walks around. Collect free elo against the people who don't know/check her buffs.
I think that smartcasting RW actually might play a role in that bug we currently see. That is if you can cast R -> W and then get the game to kill a couple of minions from W's damage before Tibbers actually lands. This might involve lag.
After all the most reliable way to make sure that minions die during the cast animation of an AoE spell is to kill them yourself.
1. If you are going to combo someone at 6/11 etc where it wont be an instagib, consider walking forward after your initial stun. This is occasionally the difference between getting that second q/w off or not.
2. I feel that AP carry Lux has a pretty decent matchup against Annie. She has huge level 6 burst, very high range which keeps you from effectively zoning her and her snare/slow means you have to be a bit extra mindful of ganks. Lux wont walk over you, but Im not sure it's possible to close against Lux without using your flash, which makes her very frustrating to play against.
1. If you are going to combo someone at 6/11 etc where it wont be an instagib, consider walking forward after your initial stun. This is occasionally the difference between getting that second q/w off or not.
Hm, I felt like this would be kind of obvious but I might add it in to a future edit.
On July 24 2011 03:23 red_b wrote: 2. I feel that AP carry Lux has a pretty decent matchup against Annie. She has huge level 6 burst, very high range which keeps you from effectively zoning her and her snare/slow means you have to be a bit extra mindful of ganks. Lux wont walk over you, but Im not sure it's possible to close against Lux without using your flash, which makes her very frustrating to play against.
AP Lux isn't a bad laner and does well in a lot of match ups but very few people play Lux as their team's AP carry. She just doesn't do enough consistent damage lategame. Hell, even by level 10-11 her damage starts to fall off. So I don't think the match up is going to happen very often.
But, when it does happen it is true that laning against a good Lux player is tough because not only does her E give her great harass but her level 6 combo is pretty deadly. The problem with Lux vs. Annie though is all you have to do is dodge Lux's snare and you've eliminated her combo. Even her ult is dodgeable. Since I open with boots on Annie (and I recommend others do the same) it makes it even easier to dodge Lux's Q, E, and R. I feel like Lux can definitely be doing well in the lane against Annie just from harass from E as you're not going to be able to dodge that spell forever but once Annie hits 6 she should be able to just kill Lux.
So while I think that Lux is definitely not that bad in lane against Annie I don't think she's much of a counter to Annie at all especially when there are champions like Kassadin and Brand who can shut Annie down a lot harder.
Whenever annnie goes up against someone with higher range, I find myself taking damage and not being able to reliably return it. Ezreal for example. This sucks. I mostly just try to be passive and kill minions, but every time one of those free stray q's hits me, I have to chug a potion, and since potions have gotten nerfed... well it sucks. Eventually I'll have to go back and Ezreal won't.
Then come late game, you're supposed to keep your stun up, but does that mean I can't hit minions anymore? Like I can't even farm otherwise I'll lose my stun stacks?
I think I'm gonna give up on annie as my go to AP carry.
Her only strength over other AP carries come late game is her mass stun. She doesn't have the range of xerath or lux so if she doesn't build tanky, she'll die a lot more, but if she does build tanky, she'll do less damage.
-normal match player.
btw, shouldn't one of the annie threads be closed?
Well, against a champ who is able to poke you, you just have to play back and farm w/ your Q. If you get a chance land a stun w/ a Q/W combo just to add some damage so they can't play as aggressively. Obviously your mana takes a little hit if you do it too often and can't manage to pressure them. If they're willing to push forward and really try to zone you out more, then that should open them up to ganks from your jungler.
Late game, as far as your stun, you you can drop a q/w/e pretty quickly to get a few stacks back and beyond that it's just knowing if you really need to have your stun available or not. If you're looking at a team fight you obviously want your stun up and if that means your team gets farm instead of you, that's not exactly a huge loss.
Yes I guess you're right. A DFG, ignite, 2xQ, W, R should be able to one shot them if I'm careful, so I just have to rely on health pots to not get pushed out of lane till then I guess.
On December 21 2011 12:57 obesechicken13 wrote: Whenever annnie goes up against someone with higher range, I find myself taking damage and not being able to reliably return it. Ezreal for example. This sucks. I mostly just try to be passive and kill minions, but every time one of those free stray q's hits me, I have to chug a potion, and since potions have gotten nerfed... well it sucks. Eventually I'll have to go back and Ezreal won't.
Champs with skillshots that don't pass through minions as Annie aren't too bad you just have to watch your positioning. Stay behind minions and Ezreal can't hit you. Ez will try and get creep advantage at level 1 though so he hits 2 before you and has more minions so that he can Arcane shift + Q + auto you. Do your best to not give him creep advantage, if you can hit level 2 before him the lane will go a lot easier.
It's champions like Brand/Cass/Xerath who can harass you through minions and who have more range than you that are really annoying as Annie because you just have to do your best to not get too low before you hit 6 since you have kill threat once you have your ult.
On December 21 2011 12:57 obesechicken13 wrote: Then come late game, you're supposed to keep your stun up, but does that mean I can't hit minions anymore? Like I can't even farm otherwise I'll lose my stun stacks?
I think I'm gonna give up on annie as my go to AP carry.
Her only strength over other AP carries come late game is her mass stun. She doesn't have the range of xerath or lux so if she doesn't build tanky, she'll die a lot more, but if she does build tanky, she'll do less damage.
You can farm late game. You just can't farm if there's about to be a team fight because you need to have stun ready to go. If the enemy team is pushing your tower then your whole team should be there, in which case the farm going to your AD carry is better anyways. Also, Annie has a pretty fantastic auto attack. The animation is crisp and her AA range is pretty long. Like, iirc, pre-Caitlyn she was tied for longest AA range.
You'll have to judge for yourself if blowing your stun is worth it but it really doesn't take long to get a new stun up. Assuming all your spells are available and you blow stun to farm, you can have stun back up in less than 8 seconds. I realize that's a long time but you should be able to tell if you're going to need stun sooner than that and make the call yourself.
Annie can initiate really well. Flash + Tibbers stun+W does massive AoE damage and if you catch three or more enemies in it you've single handedly won the team fight for your team. Even if you die your AD carry can just clean up all of the low HP enemies. But yes, there are AP carries who have better late games than Annie. Annie is a really good champ if you want to just have good lane control and crush people in solo queue because she's really good at winning her lane and she scales into late game pretty well. She has bad lane match ups but she also has plenty of good match ups as well.
On December 21 2011 12:57 obesechicken13 wrote: btw, shouldn't one of the annie threads be closed?
When the new guides were requested to be made only guides that had recent activity were to be reported to be closed. The old Annie thread had no recent activity so it didn't get closed. Frankly, there are newer APs that people find to be more fun and Annie tends to come and go in terms of how often she gets played (as is the case with a lot of the older champs). But I try to keep this thread as updated as possible.
On December 21 2011 12:57 obesechicken13 wrote: Whenever annnie goes up against someone with higher range, I find myself taking damage and not being able to reliably return it. Ezreal for example. This sucks. I mostly just try to be passive and kill minions, but every time one of those free stray q's hits me, I have to chug a potion, and since potions have gotten nerfed... well it sucks. Eventually I'll have to go back and Ezreal won't.
Then come late game, you're supposed to keep your stun up, but does that mean I can't hit minions anymore? Like I can't even farm otherwise I'll lose my stun stacks?
I think I'm gonna give up on annie as my go to AP carry.
Her only strength over other AP carries come late game is her mass stun. She doesn't have the range of xerath or lux so if she doesn't build tanky, she'll die a lot more, but if she does build tanky, she'll do less damage.
-normal match player.
btw, shouldn't one of the annie threads be closed?
Even though Annie's range (basically the range of her q needed to hit a stun) is not long, she can be an exceptional bully in lane and can clame an extremely large zone around the minions if played aggresively, able to last hit like a goddess and push back when being pushed.
Dont forget that her AA has pretty much the longest range in the game. This allows her to get free hits on most champions if you keep moving in the lane, animation cancel a bit, and try to hit them when the last hit.
It's important when playing Annie to not play "frightened" in lane, when they come close and poke, chase and poke back. She has exceptional last hitting so even if you dont manage to poke back you can zone them out of 2-3 last hits while missing less.
If you are having extreme difficulty dont be afraid to get a cloth armor or something to let you sustain more and keep in mind that you can always outplay an Ezreal or other annoying laner. If they get an early advantage and snowball just forget everything else and farm like a bawss, in low elo you can destroy lanes against people with first blood quadra kills just by hitting under your tower, managing your waves and farming like a mad man. And then since you are playing Annie you (flash) combo them when they get arrogant and get their killing spree money as well .
I sometimes take a point in E early so i can manage my stun better and hide it by staying at 4 stacks and popping e to combo them when they feel safe. E is very useful if you have trouble getting your stun back up and if you learn to last hit with AAs you will be able to keep it up to zone or use your spells when needed while getting back to 4 stacks easily, especially after you get your catalyst. Annie should never ever have mana problems anyway.
And if everything else fails you can always Flash - R - drop everything on them - Make Moneyz, cause you are Annie and have a giant flaming Teddy Bear.
Edit: Concerning Teamfights, I'd advise people that feel squishy with her to make it a rule to never - ever initiate a fight unless they are all sitting in a warded brush waiting for a bear to fall off the sky... Just sit back, let the tanks initiate and find the proper moment to unleash. A good Tibbers- W - Q is usually 80% of what is needed from you in teamfights, after that you can sit back waiting for W to come back up, die to an Olaf or go farm a lane, your job has been done. Your stun has burst so dont drop it when they are away and full health. Wait for the fight to get started first. In terms or tankiness, your Roa should be more than enough most of the time if you play careful and this is coming from a person that likes his carries tanky...
tldr: Bully your lane, farm like a boss, be patient in fights.
All your points make perfect sense to me. Have you ever thought of having your stun stack at 3 then when you want to fight E first then throw out your combo? You'll still get your stun off as both W and R have fast cast animations and having Q in the air also puts a stack on it.
A couple of times I've had success turning Annie into a tanky DPS with RoA, Rylai pieces, WotA etc. Her Q cooldown is low enough and you can make good use of your E while dishing out decent damage at the same time. Being beefier also allows her to initiate more easily and make more use of her really good passive. I guess it's like Vlad with more immediate burst but less sustained along with consistent reliable CC.
Well, main factor here is range, if you are close enough to hit your W, you might as weel do it at 4 (shield at 3) and stun with Q or Tibbers at 5. But at longer range, Q'ing at 4 and ulting at 5 may allow them to dodge Tibbers which would be a big waste
You also want the Tibbers AOE to tick on them for as long as possible so stunning with R gives you maximum damage and positioning Tibbers to block their escape path while they are stunned will hurt them even more.
Concerning Tankiness you are absolutely right that (if this is what your team needs,) its perfectly ok to play her like that. Besides, Annie does not become unstoppable with 700 AP like say a Kassadin would so investing in extra survivability is fine, but I was trying to make a point that obesechicken13 shouldn't feel that he HAS to build tanky and allow that to restrain him in his build choices...
Edit: A typical build for me would be Cata->ROA->DeathCap->Hourglass/Rylai's/Abyssal/other Surv. item but you are not forced to any path and can freely counterbuy / adjust with no restrictions like "I need to build tanky" etc.
Im really enjoying as annie but as you said kass seems to be very hard to beat. He's a free champ this week and its really making it difficult for me. Who should I swap for and should I go bot or top when kass gets put in mid to counter me?
Ive played mirror annie mid twice and i was able to outplay the other annie but kass is just built to counter annie with a longer range attack and silencing.
EPT
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