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On January 19 2012 20:26 R04R wrote:
All your points make perfect sense to me. Have you ever thought of having your stun stack at 3 then when you want to fight E first then throw out your combo? You'll still get your stun off as both W and R have fast cast animations and having Q in the air also puts a stack on it.
A couple of times I've had success turning Annie into a tanky DPS with RoA, Rylai pieces, WotA etc. Her Q cooldown is low enough and you can make good use of your E while dishing out decent damage at the same time. Being beefier also allows her to initiate more easily and make more use of her really good passive. I guess it's like Vlad with more immediate burst but less sustained along with consistent reliable CC.
Why would you build tanky Annie though? o.o
RoA can be okay in some match ups but Annie is designed to do damage and insta-gib people. The best way to do that is Dring stacking into Deathcap.
I guess you could play tanky Annie but she just seems like one of the last champions whom I'd want to go RoA/Rylai/Wota on. Mostly cause she's a burst caster, not a sustained DPS caster so Wota feels pretty wasted imo. If the active on Zhonya's isn't enough to keep you alive after you initiate a fight then you either got wrecked in lane because your burst isn't strong enough or you initiated poorly.
On January 21 2012 05:48 ZeromuS wrote:
Im really enjoying as annie but as you said kass seems to be very hard to beat. He's a free champ this week and its really making it difficult for me. Who should I swap for and should I go bot or top when kass gets put in mid to counter me?
Ive played mirror annie mid twice and i was able to outplay the other annie but kass is just built to counter annie with a longer range attack and silencing.
You can run some fun bot lanes. I wouldn't go top as most of the tanky DPS characters can survive your burst so you'll just end up wasting your full combo on them. Maybe if you can wear them down it'd be okay. Ranged AD carries do well against Kassadin though, so if your ranged AD goes mid you can run botlane with like a Taric, Leona, or Alistar and have that retarded double stun lane. Not to mention you're going to outrange every AD carry except for Caitlyn botlane.
So yeah, if you're going to switch I would recommend botlane but few people are willing to mix up the meta. If you lane against Kassadin just try and punish him pre-6 and try to hit 6 before him so you can gib him before he gets ult. Once he has 6 just play passive and don't die. If he leaves your lane to gank just call mia and push up the lane really hard.
edit:
When I say try to punish Kass I mean only do it if it's a safe trade. His Q outranges your Q and W. So if he Q's a minion (which he will do at some point) try and go in to combo him. Pre-6 if you know his Q is on CD you have a small window where you can try to get damage off on him. But for the most part Kassadin isn't a fun lane as any AP carry so if you're getting owned early just try to play passive and get your farm without dying.
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Another thing about going vs kass - abuse the SHIT out of your 625 auto-attack range. If you're ever getting the chance to throw off a Q on him, make sure to follow it up with at least 1 autoattack, your Q+auto will out-trade his vanilla Q. I think playing aggressive vs a kass that's trying to be harass you with Q works a lot better than just cowering and eating occasional Q's anyway.
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Knowledge Bomb on Annie from LoL GD:
On June 07 2013 02:35 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 02:27 AsnSensation wrote:
Annie noob here, max W or Q, take a point in E or wait till lvl 8? Generally W at lvl 1 and get stun at fountain just in case you or they invade. Even if you don't use it, having that stun charge at lvl 1 allows you to posture aggressively in lane right away. WQWEWR, R>W>Q>E I've always had the most success with maxing W over Q. It allows heavy wave clearing fairly early on. I use Q to land a stun on opponent and then harass with a huge damage incinerate. Sometimes I'll get E at 3 if I'm against a bruiser, but always before 6. It lets you cycle your passive really well (it's negligible mana cost, pretty short CD) and you can use it for stun mind grapes. Expecting to get ganked? Sit on 3 stacks of your passive, wait for enemies EW to stun 2 and skip away or kill them.
On June 07 2013 02:36 TheYango wrote:
My personal feeling has always been 3 Q by 6, then max W for a two reasons:
- Q is the stronger skill in lane, but W has more teamfight usefulness (AoE stun/damage, higher up-front burst)
- Pre-6 mana efficiency on Q is at a premium, but post-6 if you do not start upping W, you lose out on clearing power against champs that will insta-clear a wave with blue buff.
On June 07 2013 02:58 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 02:51 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I also haven't considered E max second with liandry + rylai, that sounds super fun. But also tankier than I care to be (I already build RoA on her, so getting Rylai seems like too much defense). One of peoples' traditional complaints with teamfighting with Annie is that engaging with her low range is awkward once you hit the point where you can't burst someone out of the fight. While the remake improved her scaling, her general power curve is still that of a burst caster early-midgame that transitions into a more supportive usefulness lategame. Because of this, I think a path of item development that gets early offensive stats to maximize her burst, and then transitions later into more defensive stats/CDR to support her teamfight control with repeated stuns seems to suit her power curve best. RoA seems to do the opposite of this because it's an item that doesn't reach it's peak offensive power until fully charged. Liandry's fits her very well, IMO, because as an item, the Guise buildup suits a champ that needs early-level burst potential, that transitions into supplementary %-HP damage lategame when you buy Rylai's and get the Guise upgrade. The most awkward points/questions to answer I can think of for this are: 1) What CDR sources are most suitable for Annie? 2) What burst damage AP items are strong at the 1-1.5 major item timing that Annie needs to maximize her burst damage in? 3) What defensive items are most suitable for making the transition in the level 12-14 range when Molten Shield isn't maxed yet? Show nested quote +You are not going to get 3-4 Seconds (after you initiate) to get another (Q) off in High ELO games and if for some reason you do, either your enemy is an idiot, or you're not going to kill them. I think the initial scenario that I devised the 3Q->5W skill order for was vs. Kassadin, but practically speaking it applies to other champs that have similar CDs in the 8-10 second range. Basically Kassadin effectively blocks your ability to engage with QW combos because Null Sphere has a range advantage over Disintegrate and proper animation canceling blocks your ability to combo both spells before a silence intervenes between them. If you are simply trading Q for Q or Q for W, Kassadin comes out ahead because of his passive, and the rest is him not eating too much free autoattack damage. The low CD on Q lets you catch a 4-5 second range after any trade where you can threaten with it and they can't retaliate because their core engagement skill is still on CD.
On June 07 2013 03:21 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 03:14 TheYango wrote:On June 07 2013 03:10 jcarlsoniv wrote:
People always pick Kass to counter pick my Annie, but I almost never have issues with it. Unless I really slip up, I usually do just fun. This could just be an experience > counter pick thing though. Maybe someone who plays as much Kass as I do Annie would easily beat me, I just may not have found someone like that yet. I should point out the inception of this was a long time ago, prior to the Null Sphere range nerf. That specific matchup actually isn't a good example anymore because with 650 range Null Sphere, I don't think there's an advantage anymore. I was just using it as an example because it's the one that made most sense to me initially. The concept applies to any champ that trades with a CD in the 8-10 second range that can trade better/evenly with Incinerate, but cannot trade into the 2nd Disintegrate CD at 4 seconds. Fairly certain he still does have a Q range advantage, which is always super annoying. I could just be bad though. Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 03:10 jcarlsoniv wrote:
My skill order/item build is just what works for me. If people have more success with Yango's build, that's awesome. Mine is just developed off of ~100 games of experience this season instead of the theory/math craft, even though Yango's posts make my way of doing things seem inferior. If that's the way I came off, then I'm sorry. A lot of this is still unfleshed out (as indicated by the 3 questions I posed), and I was just merely positing something based on my understanding of Annie's kit as it exists right now. If anything, I think it would be good if you had any potential answers to the 3 questions. Oh, no, I wasn't being defensive about it at all. You raise great points, which is why I said that your theory craft makes mine seem inferior. CDR - I'm a blue pot whore. I always buy them as soon as I can afford them, often even after just my catalyst. Other than that, I don't really build much more CDR, relying on blue buff/pot for it (which I know is heavily exploitable). DFG is very very good on her even though I don't often build it. Liandry's is also a good option as you have explained. As for getting the right items at the right timings, I usually get my RoA somewhere between 12 and 18 min (depending on how well or poorly my lane is going). This gives me a good basis for tankiness and light damage early on, and just keeps getting better for the next 10 min. Double DRing into Dcap also works. Or Guise, as you said. She's honestly an extremely versatile champ. Like, if I'm against an assassin, I'll often get Armguard into DCap (or just straight rush the Zhonya). And to substitute the damage/mana regen/tankiness that I would be missing from RoA, I'll sometimes pick up a couple Rings. I've also had success with RoA into Abyssal if I need to.
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Also from the new skins thread:
Frostfire Annie is best Annie. Scientifically proven.
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what about building nashors/attk speed on her so that she can consequtively stun during fights???
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On June 07 2013 09:15 GhostOwl wrote:
what about building nashors/attk speed on her so that she can consequtively stun during fights???
nvm i forgot its by number of spells
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Upping this thread 'cause I'm on an Annie spree and am doing pretty well with her atm.
Here are the builds I tried (I always go mobi boots first) :
- Morello - DFG - Void - Zonhya - Rabadon
- Morello - Rylai - Liandry
- RoA - Zonhya - Rabadon
The first one is pretty funny, and allows you to blow shit up incredibly fast. Its big problem is that if they have a strong frontline, you will never get to that backline. I lost 4 matches where I did this build against Nidalees (uncatchable backline) and 2 where I was against Naut (heavy frontline). I would avise it if they go pretty heavy on jumping in with not-that-tanky characters or have squishies with no escape and a weak frontline.
The second one is the one I'm settled for atm. It just works in all situations, and allows you to really use Tibbers to its full potential. With this build, you're more about pet-controlling than hardcore nuking, and you will peel like mad for your AD. It will also make you very tanky (+800hp) and, with the Rylai slow, you're pretty much unkillable. I think this is the best build for Annie to carry hard in teamfights.
The third one sucks. Period. RoA just takes too long to charge on Annie, who is a very high-tempo character. You will be ganking and blowing shit up non-stop, you don't have the time to wait for it to become cost-effective. Morello is just way better because the 20% CDR will help you tremendously.
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So I tried out spirit of the spectral wraith on Annie after Voyboy said he thought Annie top could potentially be really strong with it. It's really strong on Annie mid too. With the q spam it's pretty difficult to shove her out of lane, and the mana regen means you don't need another mana item.
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I want to try out annie support, Im bored of Sona and Janna. Any suggestion on Runes/Masters?
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On June 14 2013 03:07 zer0das wrote:
So I tried out spirit of the spectral wraith on Annie after Voyboy said he thought Annie top could potentially be really strong with it. It's really strong on Annie mid too. With the q spam it's pretty difficult to shove her out of lane, and the mana regen means you don't need another mana item.
Annie top is a ton of fun. Going Spectral Wraith -> Guise -> Rylai's I have yet to lose lane with her. I'm not sure whether it would be better to rush guise though. I do kind of think that it's better to avoid it mid, because mid lane really doesn't need the same sustain that top does -- your opposing laner likely won't have as much, and if you sustain well they will just back and kill you with their gold advantage. Also, you will be backing more because you are roaming. I might be wrong here but I would rather get on with the 100->0ing squishy ADCs. This might be different if you had someone like e.g. Khazix top, so it wasn't a problem that Annie was bringing more utility to the table.
Is anyone else using roaming Annie? http://www.lolking.net/guides/98398 I've been enjoying it so far. I think I want to try building a little more like akabeastmode2 next -- he goes very burst intensive. Benign Sentinel, akabeastmode2, and Annie Bot are the high level players I'm getting my build from, by the way.
Here are some example Annie top builds:
http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/940395374/19134540
http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/940483444/19134540
I bet Voyboy streamed those -- the only ones I could find were from a long time ago, if anyone digs the VODs up from his stream that would be awesome.
Here are some example Annie support games:
http://www.probuilds.net/guide/EUW/902610822/19307647
http://www.probuilds.net/guide/EUW/921554639/19307829
http://www.probuilds.net/guide/EUW/889038158/19307647
All Krepo. I've also heard good things about Morellonomicon.
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Ive been digging the Annie support recently. Although I had look at those Krepo builds and its a little bit weird. Ive been running my (fairly) standard sup masteries 9/0/21 with hybrid pen runs and AP quints and it works for me. Might try the offensive masteries and see how it goes.
Also been going W first and looking for level 1 double stuns. But im pretty sure the only reason that works is cos im in silver -_- Annie is a beast in invades though.
EDIT: Does anyone know what the Royal Support annie runs? Runes/masteries/items?
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I don't know what runes he runs or exact masteries but I believe he goes like 17 into offense or something crazy and just plays really aggressive. Tabe's items are typically Kage+Philo asap followed by boots (upgrades to mobility usually) and a sight stone. Then spends all the rest of his gold on wards. His starting items are just green wards, 1 pink ward, health and mana pots.
Annie support only really works in solo queue if your opponents are bad or if you have teammates willing to follow your initiations. If your team starts picking pussy champions it's hard to make support Annie work.
I did some quick googling and some guy claims Tabe runs 21/9/0 masteries, hybrid pen, flat armor, flat AP blues+quints. I don't know how accurate that is.
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Been playing mostly Annie Support on my smurf and wow is it powerful. I highly suggest her for anyone in silver or lower who are stuck playing support. Her burst is just as strong as Leona or Zyra except she isn't melee all-in like Leona or squishy and skillshot reliant like Zyra. The 625 autorange makes her a nasty poker as well.
Inspired by Tabe but modified to fit my own playstyle.
Summoners: Flash/Ignite
Runes: AP/Hybrid Pen/Armor/MR or AP/Hybrid Pen/Armor/CDR
Masteries: 9/0/21
WQWEW. R > W > Q > E
Items: Stack drings and buy wards. Get sightstone when you can afford it. Don't build any more items unless you are fed.
Emphasize buying pinks/oracles to control brush throughout the game. Annie excels at picking people off and she can't do it if they can see her!
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/20336950#history
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are doran's rings really efficient enough when you're not getting any mana regen from the passive playing support?
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No. And if you wanted more damage as annie support you'd build pen, not doran rings.
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the rise in annie support being played allows me to counterpick leblanc support! this makes me happy. pretty much freewin even if you go support masteries and they are going balls-deep (AP) you outdamage annie hard and at 6 you both get a good spike not just her.
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On September 12 2013 13:23 ZataN wrote:
Does anyone know what the Royal Support annie runs? Runes/masteries/items?
Normal masteries (1/13/16), with Hybrid pen Marks and AD Quints. Max W over Q.
Support Annie is susceptive to any gank from the jungle, and should be played as 2vs1 at mid lane. Her level 1 and 2 are monstrous.
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United States939 Posts
Hi,
Read the posts above mine about support Annie, and I wanted to expand on it a bit. Hopefully we can do some in-game-crafting and find the best way to do it!
Out of curiosity I played support Annie for the first and second time ever in TLIH last night. The games themselves weren't great indicators of her nitty-gritty strengths and weaknesses (first game Elo mismatch in lane, second game 3-0 lead from lvl 1 fight), but they did tell me that she is fun.
Summoners: Flash/Ignite. Exhaust might be needed if opponent has something mean like Kassadin or Jax, but that's not fun.
Runes:
Glyphs: Haven't experimented much, been running pretty standard 6 flat MR, 3 MP5. I'm not sure that Annie benefits very much from the mana regen runes, as compared to supports like Lulu.
I'm considering a single crit chance glyph, because why not. You AA a lot.
There are a few unexplored options here (Mpen, AD, scaling AP, crit), but I don't have the IP to test them out.
Seals: 9x armor. Yawn. Riot pls.
Marks: 9x hybrid pen. The difference in AA harass damage was noticeable once I threw down a million IP to replace Mpen marks with hybrid pen. I recommend them.
Quints: This is the tricky one, and along with glyphs, the one that I think has the most room for improvement. I currently run 3x flat AD. You need to be more selective with your purchases if you can't get kills. Wasting wards will hurt.
You will not be gaining that extra 18 gold per minute if you are used to running 3 GP quints, which is 540 gold in a 30 minute game.
I am also considering using flat HP quints. I run them on my smurf that only has 2 rune pages and they are really nice. Anyone who has a lot of quints available to them and wants to experiment, please report.
Side note: I typically run a single mp5 quint on almost all of my supports. I don't think it's needed on Annie, but I'm not sure yet.
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Masteries: http://www.finalesfunkeln.com/s3/#73U7gwMatkUrgV
http://www.finalesfunkeln.com/s3/#73U7jwMatkUrd
The idea is to be aggressive with Annie - these pages give you damage early, both from AA harass and your skills. As usual, I have no idea if Annie needs the mana regen. I also don't know the math on the difference between Mental Force and Havoc.
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Skills: W, R>W>Q>E
Note: it takes 40 seconds at level 1 to charge your stun. If you don't stay in the fountain it will hurt your mana pool a bit. If you do stay in the fountain, you handicap your team.
Maxing E over Q is like, a theory-craftishly tempting choice, since it gives pretty strong defensive buffs, but I think math will show that Q is probably better because of its low cooldown and stronger scaling (in raw damage alone).
Tibbers is a beast, even without AP. They should probably just rename it to "summon Renekton with AoE stun."
Items: You can get 3 green, 1 pink, 3 pots (455 gold). You can also get 4 green, 5 pots (475 gold). There aren't really any superior options. Pinks are also crazy useful vs Twitch.
I haven't explored itemization beyond the basics. Sighstone, boots, Kage's/Philo, Oracles ad infinitum. Mejai's could be good if you're rollin'.
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This isn't intended as a guide so much as a foundation for discussion and development. If anyone wants to contribute advice or ideas (or correct me if I messed up), please do!
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On October 07 2013 22:08 walrus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 13:23 ZataN wrote:
Does anyone know what the Royal Support annie runs? Runes/masteries/items? Normal masteries (1/13/16), with Hybrid pen Marks and AD Quints. Max W over Q. Support Annie is susceptive to any gank from the jungle, and should be played as 2vs1 at mid lane. Her level 1 and 2 are monstrous.
Definitely not what this guy said.
Tabe runs balls to the wall 21/9 with some Hybrid Pen and either AD or AP quints (forgot). He doesn't do some pussy utility shit on Annie. Grab CDR, MPen, Flat AP, Flat AD, Flat Armor Pen in Offense. Take standard 9 defense stuff.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On October 07 2013 09:12 nath wrote:
the rise in annie support being played allows me to counterpick leblanc support! this makes me happy. pretty much freewin even if you go support masteries and they are going balls-deep (AP) you outdamage annie hard and at 6 you both get a good spike not just her.
Don't feel like this is a correct assessment. Annie's auto attack range hits hard early on if they're able to trade efficiently and essentially insta-stun can turn any lane into a dangerous lane.
I think support masteries are completely fucking useless the more I look at it. Completely outclassed by Offense and Defense.
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EPT
