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[Champion] Jax - Page 50

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NpG)Explosive
Profile Joined January 2003
France994 Posts
October 09 2013 16:44 GMT
#981
I must be blind, I can't find the post where jax gets 3k5 hp, 300 armor and 300 mr.

The wiki says doran shield and block reductions are calculated before armor. Is the wiki wrong? I never bothered to test it in game.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-09 16:53:37
October 09 2013 16:53 GMT
#982
I'm about 75% sure the wiki is wrong. Would be funsies to test.

Our level 18 Jax stats are:
3515 HP
81+136.5 Armor (204.5 with ult)
52.5+135.5 MR (186.5 with ult)

That's actually more in favor of Legendary Armor than 100+200/100+200 would be, since the bonuses are both close to 200 but the base amounts are lower.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
October 09 2013 16:58 GMT
#983
When I asked about the dshield when it was changed, Smash answered that it's calculated before armour, and I'd tend to go with his answer.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-09 17:04:32
October 09 2013 17:00 GMT
#984
Honestly I am kind of surprised that Legendary Armor doesn't give 6% bonus Armor/MR over 5%. When S3 first came out it did give 6% and they nerfed it just a few days before the patch hit for some reason.

In general, the way Riot organizes masteries is that ones that are higher up in the mastery tree are slightly better than ones lower in the tree. Juggernaut vs. Legendary Armor is one of the only instances I know of where this is questionable.

But also in general I think people undervalue Legendary Armor, especially the first point. If it gave 2% per point and Juggernaut was 1.33% per point this discussion wouldn't be taking up nearly as much of my time.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
NpG)Explosive
Profile Joined January 2003
France994 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-09 17:28:35
October 09 2013 17:16 GMT
#985
On October 10 2013 01:53 Ketara wrote:
I'm about 75% sure the wiki is wrong. Would be funsies to test.

Our level 18 Jax stats are:
3515 HP
81+136.5 Armor (204.5 with ult)
52.5+135.5 MR (186.5 with ult)

That's actually more in favor of Legendary Armor than 100+200/100+200 would be, since the bonuses are both close to 200 but the base amounts are lower.


I still have no idea what build you're using to get 136 armor and 135 mr from runes/masteries/items.
With the ult, the third point in juggernaut is giving about the same as the first point in legendary armor.

Edit:
On October 10 2013 02:00 Ketara wrote:
In general, the way Riot organizes masteries is that ones that are higher up in the mastery tree are slightly better than ones lower in the tree. Juggernaut vs. Legendary Armor is one of the only instances I know of where this is questionable.


I also agree. I feel it's the same when you go 21 in offense as an ap champion. Spellsword isn't bad, but it makes sense once you have some ap, which is when most ap carries focus on their spells and stop attacking at all. Mental force isn't impressive. Archmage is weaker than havoc.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-09 17:25:45
October 09 2013 17:23 GMT
#986
Randuin + Spirit Visage + GA + Merc Tread + Trinity + BotRK is the build.

You have to remember that in instances where they're "about the same", Legendary Armor is better because that build has 21% lifesteal as well as a 2-300 HP burst heal from BotRK and lots of sustain from Visage.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-09 17:34:24
October 09 2013 17:34 GMT
#987
On October 10 2013 02:16 NpG)Explosive wrote:
I also agree. I feel it's the same when you go 21 in offense as an ap champion. Spellsword isn't bad, but it makes sense once you have some ap, which is when most ap carries focus on their spells and stop attacking at all. Mental force isn't impressive. Archmage is weaker than havoc.


Archmage vs. Havoc depends on the champion and the build. Big burst mages who go into like 800 AP territory with high ratios like Archmage quite a bit.

Mental Force is pathetic though, the fact that most AP's prefer Brute Force for easier last hitting is fairly telling. Everywhere else in the game Riot itemizes AP vs AD at about a 2 to 1 ratio, and then for Brute Force vs. Mental Force doesn't and it's very awkward.

I think of the 3 trees the Offense tree is organized the worst, which isn't surprising because in S3 both Defense and Utility were heavily overhauled and Offense stayed roughly the same. You have situations in Offense where a champion has a choice of 3-4 masteries to put points in and realistically doesn't want any of them, whereas in Defense/Utility it's the opposite problem, you want all of them so much that it's hard to decide.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
NpG)Explosive
Profile Joined January 2003
France994 Posts
October 09 2013 18:26 GMT
#988
On October 10 2013 02:23 Ketara wrote:
Randuin + Spirit Visage + GA + Merc Tread + Trinity + BotRK is the build.

You have to remember that in instances where they're "about the same", Legendary Armor is better because that build has 21% lifesteal as well as a 2-300 HP burst heal from BotRK and lots of sustain from Visage.


I never realized this build would give so much resists. Good to know.

Our maths doesn't take into account sustain/heals, but it's not the only thing we're ignoring.
Any %health spell will make resists look better.
Any true damage spell will make hp look better.
Any flat armor/MR penetration or reduction will make resists look better.
Any % armor/MR penetration or reduction will make hp look better.

For example late game the ad carry will ignore 40% of what you get from legendary armor, while unless his kor or vayne he can't do anything about what you get from juggernaut.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-09 22:33:39
October 09 2013 22:21 GMT
#989
None of those factors matter as much as the sustain does.

Not even close.

It is not atypical for a champion like late game Jax to heal 1000+ HP while the fight is going on.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-10 01:57:10
October 10 2013 01:51 GMT
#990
So much Jax discussion... Is it because he was played every game of the WFinals? Because they were on patch 3.11 I think which was before the Triforce Changes. U guys just bandwagoning?

Edit: I guess that's fine. Jax is an awesome champ.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
October 10 2013 03:25 GMT
#991
On October 10 2013 10:51 obesechicken13 wrote:
So much Jax discussion... Is it because he was played every game of the WFinals? Because they were on patch 3.11 I think which was before the Triforce Changes. U guys just bandwagoning?

Edit: I guess that's fine. Jax is an awesome champ.


They played on the Triforce patch, which is around when Jax talk kinda cropped back up
Freeeeeeedom
Lylat
Profile Joined August 2009
France8575 Posts
October 11 2013 18:41 GMT
#992
Any advice for the Jax vs Singed match up ? I had some trouble last time I faced a Singed.. Dat poison damage O.O
BlasiuS
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States2405 Posts
October 11 2013 20:37 GMT
#993
singed destroys jax. The best you can do is build MR and pray for a successful pre-6 gank. I build cutlass -> treads -> SV, 9/21/0

if you get behind early rushing cowl is good as well.
next week on Everybody Loves HypnoToad:
GrandInquisitor *
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
New York City13113 Posts
October 11 2013 21:23 GMT
#994
After 6, you can win trades if you prime your ult passive with 2 AA's, Q in, reset with W and proc the ult passive, then walk away with E. Avoid fighting Singed with his ult up, and consider buying Hexdrinker.
What fun is it being cool if you can’t wear a sombrero?
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
October 11 2013 21:32 GMT
#995
--- Nuked ---
Dusty
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3359 Posts
October 11 2013 21:36 GMT
#996
On October 12 2013 05:37 BlasiuS wrote:
singed destroys jax. The best you can do is build MR and pray for a successful pre-6 gank. I build cutlass -> treads -> SV, 9/21/0

if you get behind early rushing cowl is good as well.


rushing treads vs a champion that doesnt have any tenaciable CC is often times a really bad idea, It makes me somewhat upset to see people rush that item vs singed/vlad ><.

Could just buy a null-magic mantle and build it into a hexdrinker later or build mercs for teamfighting later on, but finishing it after cutlass seems pretty iffy to me.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-21 01:42:42
October 21 2013 01:39 GMT
#997
Was just watching Jax in Spring LCS Eu on Twitch. Jax feels worthless against poke comps.

He just stayed grouped with his team, applied a 1s stun on a guy after burning flash and Q, and then used like 2 Ws every team fight. I have a hard time thinking of tops that contribute less than that and that are not lane bullies.

I remember the days before Jax's remake where someone on Eu was playing Jax vs Hotshot's Morde and just splitpushing. We don't see splitpush Jax anymore. The Jax had gunblade and bloodthirster and would dive morde under tower until morde's ult was used, then Jax would back off, sustain back on one minion wave, and come back to 1v2 the tower and Morde. No one plays split push Jax anymore and at the pro level you don't get these awkward fights in the middle of the jungle that turn into 1v1 duels: something that Jax excels in. People are too safe. Honestly, I don't know why everyone's firstpicking Jax. You don't get the small duels that your team wants.

You can't duel most other duelists if you don't have ignite/exhaust/barrier and you don't have map presence without teleport. You can't split push a tower down. And there are so many checks to Jax: Nasus, Riven, Renekton, Malphite, ChoGath, Garen, Elise, maybe Shen so you're not dominating lane. 50% more of your base damage on triforce isn't that big of a deal.

He's a check to Fiora, WW, Aatrox, Tryn, Yi, Rengar, and other tops that get their primary spells and autos blocked.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
October 21 2013 01:47 GMT
#998
On October 21 2013 10:39 obesechicken13 wrote:
Was just watching Jax in Spring LCS Eu on Twitch. Jax feels worthless against poke comps.

He just stayed grouped with his team, applied a 1s stun on a guy after burning flash and Q, and then used like 2 Ws every team fight. I have a hard time thinking of tops that contribute less than that and that are not lane bullies.

I remember the days before Jax's remake where someone on Eu was playing Jax vs Hotshot's Morde and just splitpushing. We don't see splitpush Jax anymore. The Jax had gunblade and bloodthirster and would dive morde under tower until morde's ult was used, then Jax would back off, sustain back on one minion wave, and come back to 1v2 the tower and Morde. No one plays split push Jax anymore and at the pro level you don't get these awkward fights in the middle of the jungle that turn into 1v1 duels: something that Jax excels in. People are too safe. Honestly, I don't know why everyone's firstpicking Jax. You don't get the small duels that your team wants.

You can't duel most other duelists if you don't have ignite/exhaust/barrier and you don't have map presence without teleport. You can't split push a tower down. And there are so many checks to Jax: Nasus, Riven, Renekton, Malphite, ChoGath, Garen, Elise, maybe Shen so you're not dominating lane. 50% more of your base damage on triforce isn't that big of a deal.

He's a check to Fiora, WW, Aatrox, Tryn, Yi, Rengar, and other tops that get their primary spells and autos blocked.

Watch sktt1 vs. sword, and royal. Really well used Jax play.
Freeeeeeedom
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-21 02:01:14
October 21 2013 01:59 GMT
#999
On October 21 2013 10:47 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2013 10:39 obesechicken13 wrote:
Was just watching Jax in Spring LCS Eu on Twitch. Jax feels worthless against poke comps.

He just stayed grouped with his team, applied a 1s stun on a guy after burning flash and Q, and then used like 2 Ws every team fight. I have a hard time thinking of tops that contribute less than that and that are not lane bullies.

I remember the days before Jax's remake where someone on Eu was playing Jax vs Hotshot's Morde and just splitpushing. We don't see splitpush Jax anymore. The Jax had gunblade and bloodthirster and would dive morde under tower until morde's ult was used, then Jax would back off, sustain back on one minion wave, and come back to 1v2 the tower and Morde. No one plays split push Jax anymore and at the pro level you don't get these awkward fights in the middle of the jungle that turn into 1v1 duels: something that Jax excels in. People are too safe. Honestly, I don't know why everyone's firstpicking Jax. You don't get the small duels that your team wants.

You can't duel most other duelists if you don't have ignite/exhaust/barrier and you don't have map presence without teleport. You can't split push a tower down. And there are so many checks to Jax: Nasus, Riven, Renekton, Malphite, ChoGath, Garen, Elise, maybe Shen so you're not dominating lane. 50% more of your base damage on triforce isn't that big of a deal.

He's a check to Fiora, WW, Aatrox, Tryn, Yi, Rengar, and other tops that get their primary spells and autos blocked.

Watch sktt1 vs. sword, and royal. Really well used Jax play.

I didn't actually think the sktt1 Jax vs royal in the WC3 finals was that impressive either.

He'd go into a 1v2 lane, cede cs, and then have the jungler babysit him for a long time before later getting into the same teamfight problems.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Dusty
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3359 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-21 06:22:25
October 21 2013 06:21 GMT
#1000
well jax is a terrible teamfighter until he gets like 6 items. Otherwise he does no damage or dies instantly. I have a lot of success with him in solo-q just doing bork-trinity splitpush jax. Then when lategame comes and I have my randuins + visage/maw/banshees + ga I can dive onto the carry and tank the entire team while my carry kills everything
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