EPTThe wiki says doran shield and block reductions are calculated before armor. Is the wiki wrong? I never bothered to test it in game.
[Champion] Jax - Page 50
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NpG)Explosive
France994 Posts
The wiki says doran shield and block reductions are calculated before armor. Is the wiki wrong? I never bothered to test it in game. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Our level 18 Jax stats are: 3515 HP 81+136.5 Armor (204.5 with ult) 52.5+135.5 MR (186.5 with ult) That's actually more in favor of Legendary Armor than 100+200/100+200 would be, since the bonuses are both close to 200 but the base amounts are lower. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
In general, the way Riot organizes masteries is that ones that are higher up in the mastery tree are slightly better than ones lower in the tree. Juggernaut vs. Legendary Armor is one of the only instances I know of where this is questionable. But also in general I think people undervalue Legendary Armor, especially the first point. If it gave 2% per point and Juggernaut was 1.33% per point this discussion wouldn't be taking up nearly as much of my time. | ||
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NpG)Explosive
France994 Posts
On October 10 2013 01:53 Ketara wrote: I'm about 75% sure the wiki is wrong. Would be funsies to test. Our level 18 Jax stats are: 3515 HP 81+136.5 Armor (204.5 with ult) 52.5+135.5 MR (186.5 with ult) That's actually more in favor of Legendary Armor than 100+200/100+200 would be, since the bonuses are both close to 200 but the base amounts are lower. I still have no idea what build you're using to get 136 armor and 135 mr from runes/masteries/items. With the ult, the third point in juggernaut is giving about the same as the first point in legendary armor. Edit: On October 10 2013 02:00 Ketara wrote: In general, the way Riot organizes masteries is that ones that are higher up in the mastery tree are slightly better than ones lower in the tree. Juggernaut vs. Legendary Armor is one of the only instances I know of where this is questionable. I also agree. I feel it's the same when you go 21 in offense as an ap champion. Spellsword isn't bad, but it makes sense once you have some ap, which is when most ap carries focus on their spells and stop attacking at all. Mental force isn't impressive. Archmage is weaker than havoc. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
You have to remember that in instances where they're "about the same", Legendary Armor is better because that build has 21% lifesteal as well as a 2-300 HP burst heal from BotRK and lots of sustain from Visage. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On October 10 2013 02:16 NpG)Explosive wrote: I also agree. I feel it's the same when you go 21 in offense as an ap champion. Spellsword isn't bad, but it makes sense once you have some ap, which is when most ap carries focus on their spells and stop attacking at all. Mental force isn't impressive. Archmage is weaker than havoc. Archmage vs. Havoc depends on the champion and the build. Big burst mages who go into like 800 AP territory with high ratios like Archmage quite a bit. Mental Force is pathetic though, the fact that most AP's prefer Brute Force for easier last hitting is fairly telling. Everywhere else in the game Riot itemizes AP vs AD at about a 2 to 1 ratio, and then for Brute Force vs. Mental Force doesn't and it's very awkward. I think of the 3 trees the Offense tree is organized the worst, which isn't surprising because in S3 both Defense and Utility were heavily overhauled and Offense stayed roughly the same. You have situations in Offense where a champion has a choice of 3-4 masteries to put points in and realistically doesn't want any of them, whereas in Defense/Utility it's the opposite problem, you want all of them so much that it's hard to decide. | ||
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NpG)Explosive
France994 Posts
On October 10 2013 02:23 Ketara wrote: Randuin + Spirit Visage + GA + Merc Tread + Trinity + BotRK is the build. You have to remember that in instances where they're "about the same", Legendary Armor is better because that build has 21% lifesteal as well as a 2-300 HP burst heal from BotRK and lots of sustain from Visage. I never realized this build would give so much resists. Good to know. Our maths doesn't take into account sustain/heals, but it's not the only thing we're ignoring. Any %health spell will make resists look better. Any true damage spell will make hp look better. Any flat armor/MR penetration or reduction will make resists look better. Any % armor/MR penetration or reduction will make hp look better. For example late game the ad carry will ignore 40% of what you get from legendary armor, while unless his kor or vayne he can't do anything about what you get from juggernaut. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Not even close. It is not atypical for a champion like late game Jax to heal 1000+ HP while the fight is going on. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
Edit: I guess that's fine. Jax is an awesome champ. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On October 10 2013 10:51 obesechicken13 wrote: So much Jax discussion... Is it because he was played every game of the WFinals? Because they were on patch 3.11 I think which was before the Triforce Changes. U guys just bandwagoning? Edit: I guess that's fine. Jax is an awesome champ. They played on the Triforce patch, which is around when Jax talk kinda cropped back up | ||
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Lylat
France8572 Posts
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
if you get behind early rushing cowl is good as well. | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
On October 12 2013 05:37 BlasiuS wrote: singed destroys jax. The best you can do is build MR and pray for a successful pre-6 gank. I build cutlass -> treads -> SV, 9/21/0 if you get behind early rushing cowl is good as well. rushing treads vs a champion that doesnt have any tenaciable CC is often times a really bad idea, It makes me somewhat upset to see people rush that item vs singed/vlad ><. Could just buy a null-magic mantle and build it into a hexdrinker later or build mercs for teamfighting later on, but finishing it after cutlass seems pretty iffy to me. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
He just stayed grouped with his team, applied a 1s stun on a guy after burning flash and Q, and then used like 2 Ws every team fight. I have a hard time thinking of tops that contribute less than that and that are not lane bullies. I remember the days before Jax's remake where someone on Eu was playing Jax vs Hotshot's Morde and just splitpushing. We don't see splitpush Jax anymore. The Jax had gunblade and bloodthirster and would dive morde under tower until morde's ult was used, then Jax would back off, sustain back on one minion wave, and come back to 1v2 the tower and Morde. No one plays split push Jax anymore and at the pro level you don't get these awkward fights in the middle of the jungle that turn into 1v1 duels: something that Jax excels in. People are too safe. Honestly, I don't know why everyone's firstpicking Jax. You don't get the small duels that your team wants. You can't duel most other duelists if you don't have ignite/exhaust/barrier and you don't have map presence without teleport. You can't split push a tower down. And there are so many checks to Jax: Nasus, Riven, Renekton, Malphite, ChoGath, Garen, Elise, maybe Shen so you're not dominating lane. 50% more of your base damage on triforce isn't that big of a deal. He's a check to Fiora, WW, Aatrox, Tryn, Yi, Rengar, and other tops that get their primary spells and autos blocked. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On October 21 2013 10:39 obesechicken13 wrote: Was just watching Jax in Spring LCS Eu on Twitch. Jax feels worthless against poke comps. He just stayed grouped with his team, applied a 1s stun on a guy after burning flash and Q, and then used like 2 Ws every team fight. I have a hard time thinking of tops that contribute less than that and that are not lane bullies. I remember the days before Jax's remake where someone on Eu was playing Jax vs Hotshot's Morde and just splitpushing. We don't see splitpush Jax anymore. The Jax had gunblade and bloodthirster and would dive morde under tower until morde's ult was used, then Jax would back off, sustain back on one minion wave, and come back to 1v2 the tower and Morde. No one plays split push Jax anymore and at the pro level you don't get these awkward fights in the middle of the jungle that turn into 1v1 duels: something that Jax excels in. People are too safe. Honestly, I don't know why everyone's firstpicking Jax. You don't get the small duels that your team wants. You can't duel most other duelists if you don't have ignite/exhaust/barrier and you don't have map presence without teleport. You can't split push a tower down. And there are so many checks to Jax: Nasus, Riven, Renekton, Malphite, ChoGath, Garen, Elise, maybe Shen so you're not dominating lane. 50% more of your base damage on triforce isn't that big of a deal. He's a check to Fiora, WW, Aatrox, Tryn, Yi, Rengar, and other tops that get their primary spells and autos blocked. Watch sktt1 vs. sword, and royal. Really well used Jax play. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On October 21 2013 10:47 cLutZ wrote: Watch sktt1 vs. sword, and royal. Really well used Jax play. I didn't actually think the sktt1 Jax vs royal in the WC3 finals was that impressive either. He'd go into a 1v2 lane, cede cs, and then have the jungler babysit him for a long time before later getting into the same teamfight problems. | ||
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
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