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On December 19 2010 08:25 Odds wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2010 07:27 symbolic wrote:On December 19 2010 05:17 WaveofShadow wrote:
I dunno I really don't have much positive to say about this champ....every game I have ever seen her in she has fed and the team who owned her lost.
I can see where the damage is supposed to be happening but by the time she can dish it out there are other players who can do it better and she is SO squishy. I think people are being too pessimistic about her and she depends a lot on a health centric build early on imo. I've been experimenting with cata --> rylai's --> banshee's and cata --> RoA --> Rylai's, and I haven't really had many survivability problems and her damage is still insane without a ton of AP items at first. I also run ghost/cleanse and kiting with her is really good, def with rylai's so her Q ups her movement speed while slowing down her opponent's. Overall, I think she'll get stronger and stronger as people get more experience with her. EDIT: Also, her skilling is really interesting. I've been doing QEQWQR R > Q > W > E but I think I'm going to change that since I can be more aggressive with the new builds I'm going to try out. Something like QEQEQRQW R > E > Q > W. I just don't feel like W does that much early on except give a second attempt on a poison if you miss your Q. Indeed, I think you are on the right track here. Health items are superior, as she gets focused super hard and puts out loads of item-independent DPS. I believe that MS% quints and masteries are mandatory so that you can run Mercs and still be faster than everybody else. I also agree that ghost/cleanse is the right way to go. You get focused and CC'd tons, which completely shuts down your ability to do damage (unlike a burster such as Annie)-- so the ability to absorb this and walk away is a great benefit to your team as well as yourself. It also lets you get away with coming in close to blow your ultimate without being at quite as much risk for instant death. Tear is fun but you are just too squishy. I'm running 0/14/16 - SoS, Cleanse mastery, and utility up to and including MS%. I'm still playing with runes, but ATM it's Mres/level blues, mpen reds, mp5/lvl yellows, MS% quints. As for skills, I think to be optimal you want to be maxing E and then Q for raw damage, but the slow on your W is actually really good (particularly when you have rylai's), so I think W is worth maxing after E and over Q.
I'm running something similar but haven't tried MS quints so I'll have to do that.
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I really *want* to find a way to make Tear good on her, it just synergizes far far too well with her abilities to ignore. When I have some time I will attempt some raw mana/tank builds utilizing SoS and going something like
Crystal -> Catalyst
Shoes
Tear
Catalyst -> RoA
Mercs
Glacial Shroud
Archangel's
Frozen Heart
Banshee's
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Funny note, you can sorta jungle Cass. 0/16/14 with armor seals and health quints and you can sorta do a run... but without lizard.
Also if you run out of golem buff you're kinda screwed.
Maybe you could get farther or do better with a more offensive build, idk.
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United States33503 Posts
On December 21 2010 12:54 phyvo wrote:
Funny note, you can sorta jungle Cass. 0/16/14 with armor seals and health quints and you can sorta do a run... but without lizard.
Also if you run out of golem buff you're kinda screwed.
Maybe you could get farther or do better with a more offensive build, idk.
you can do a full run and be done with very little hp left, making a gank pretty risky 
20%, skillshot slow skill, so at least you're better off than olaf at ganking 
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So, Cass free week... I've been trying her out, and she pretty much sucks balls. But as mentioned in the two last posts, she can jungle. What i don't think they capture is, that she is (imo) an amazing jungle.
Going golem > everything but red, you can clear this so fast that you can't even get boots and ward when you b. She's just insanely fast. When I'm done I got about 50% hp, so if a lane is pushing you can take another hp pot and gank just fine (though, her gank without red is really weak). This is running 1/16/11(I think 11? getting imp flash at least).
Another cool thing about jungling her is the itembuild you kinda get streamlined into. I open cloth + 4 hp pots (so you can afford boots + ward when b) and then go HoG > Cata > RoA. The extra hp and armor from HoG is quite sweet on cass, since she will get beaten up a bit due to the short range on e.
Thoughts?
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Has anyone done a cass + teemo or cass + twitch dual lane yet? I assume doing that, and taking twin fang at level 1, is the only thing that makes her useful...
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I have a feeling that Cass may be currently unfairly neglected. The buffs she got recently have helped a lot.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
shes just really annoying to lane against, then drops off bigtime
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jungle cass is unexpected.
Get someone to creep drag blue for you and own the jungle.
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On January 25 2011 17:22 Brees wrote:
shes just really annoying to lane against, then drops off bigtime
I don't know if she drops off. Maybe she does, but in the games I've been playing in the last couple days, she's scaled very well. I think a major mistake that Cass players make is trying to (in teamfights) play her like a caster, when she behaves much more like a ranged DPS AD carry. Cass cannot be in the middle of the fight, but should instead be in the outskirts, hitting whoever she can- even if it's a tank.
As a result of this role, combined with the low, low AP ratio on her E, I think that Cass needs to itemize with these priorities:
1. Survivability
2. Magic pen
3. AP
But she benefits from all of these differently at different points in the game. In the early game, most of your damage is coming from your harass with Q because nobody will let you get close enough to rail them with E repeatedly. Q has a high AP ratio, so Cass benefits immensely from AP runes and a couple Doran's rings.
Survivability is extremely important for her in the midgame- because she has far too much base magic damage to be ignored, and nobody has enough magic armor to do so. However, she is extremely squishy and has to be just a bit too close to the fight to remain (almost) completely safe as a champ like Ashe would.
In the lategame, the enemy tanks (eg, the only cats who will be in range of your spells if you are spacing correctly) are going to have huge amounts of magic resistance, so a Void Staff is probably mandatory.
So with this in mind, then, I think an optimal build for Cass would be something like
9/9/12 (SoS is a must, it lets you rock your lane in ways never before thought possible)
Mpen Reds, flat AP quints, AP/lvl blues, mp5 yellows
Dring -> Shoes -> 1/2 more Drings -> sorc shoes -> Rylai's (So good with every single one of her spells, and gives that desperately needed midgame beef) -> Void Staff -> Banshee's or Hourglass or whatever other tanky shit you like
DO NOT GET TEAR ON CASS JESUS FUCK SHE DOES NOT NEED THE MANA
My match history shows me going Rylais -> Abyssal. I think this has been a mistake, as the Abyssal is coming way too late to make a significant difference in my effectiveness vs the enemies that I can hit (the tanks). I look forward to playing some games with proper items on her, later today.
Again, Cass might be as bad as everyone says she is. However, they say the same thing about Teemo- who is simply insanely strong at this point in time.
EDIT: I just had the thought that, if rushing void staff, Mercs might be a much better choice than sorc shoes. Hmmm
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9/7/14 lets you take Greed, Meditation and Buff Duration while only sacrificing 4 Armor. I would definitely take that over 9/9/12. You especially want Meditation and you will probably take blue buff frequently so Buff Duration is a good idea.
(and if you want the 4 Armor so badly, get them on runes, seriously!)
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On January 26 2011 07:19 Odds wrote:
DO NOT GET TEAR ON CASS JESUS FUCK SHE DOES NOT NEED THE MANA
wat if i want to stack 5 aa's and a hat?
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On January 26 2011 08:18 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 07:19 Odds wrote:
DO NOT GET TEAR ON CASS JESUS FUCK SHE DOES NOT NEED THE MANA
wat if i want to stack 5 aa's and a hat?
Then you replace 1 with a Void Staff and never buy a Tear, always Wand->AA. Nobody will notice that there actually are Tears inside.
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On January 26 2011 08:17 spinesheath wrote:
9/7/14 lets you take Greed, Meditation and Buff Duration while only sacrificing 4 Armor. I would definitely take that over 9/9/12. You especially want Meditation and you will probably take blue buff frequently so Buff Duration is a good idea.
The entire point of the 12 in Utility is to get the Meditation and Greed masteries. I really don't feel that blue buff is necessary on Cass, but it's certainly not a bad idea. I may go for movement speed instead of the extra 4 armor.
Basically the only reason for that is I always forget that you don't need 6 in defensive to get SoS.
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Honestly Cass has an awesome qwe skillset. Riot just trolled her super hard with the ult considering another hero with a skill similar to it gets a huge benefit out of hitting their back with a larger range (Tryndamere W). Just make it so it always stuns and if they are facing her their magic resist gets raped or keep the stun/slow medusa shit and always do a percent MR reduction so your teammates can recieve a benefit after you die for getting that close to them.
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Uh, when I first tried her out I did a tanky cdr build similar to how Urgot and Nidalee (and Malzahar)
DRing
Merc Treads
Blasting Wand + Sapphire Crystal/Meki Pendant
Archangels
Rylai's/FrozenHeart/Banshee'sVeil
I was doing R > Q > W > E, a pretty bad way to level her skills,
not touching E until I had maxed Q and W, but I think it should be closer to something like this
R > Q=E > W
QWEQQREEEQRQQWWRWW
Focus Q more if you're teamfights are going to be more close ranged and clumped together, E if teamfights are spread out and long range
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On January 26 2011 08:44 mrgerry wrote:
Honestly Cass has an awesome qwe skillset. Riot just trolled her super hard with the ult considering another hero with a skill similar to it gets a huge benefit out of hitting their back with a larger range (Tryndamere W). Just make it so it always stuns and if they are facing her their magic resist gets raped or keep the stun/slow medusa shit and always do a percent MR reduction so your teammates can recieve a benefit after you die for getting that close to them.
pretty much, she's good against the worst type of char in the game (melee dps) and horrid against ranged dps. a winning combination to being fucking horrible
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On January 26 2011 09:41 Brees wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 08:44 mrgerry wrote:
Honestly Cass has an awesome qwe skillset. Riot just trolled her super hard with the ult considering another hero with a skill similar to it gets a huge benefit out of hitting their back with a larger range (Tryndamere W). Just make it so it always stuns and if they are facing her their magic resist gets raped or keep the stun/slow medusa shit and always do a percent MR reduction so your teammates can recieve a benefit after you die for getting that close to them. pretty much, she's good against the worst type of char in the game (melee dps) and horrid against ranged dps. a winning combination to being fucking horrible
I think it goes beyond this: her E is low damage/fast reload, but LoL is all about dropping a ton of damage on someone and then repositioning. She either has not use it whenever it's up (reduced DPS) or not reposition (reduced lifespan). At least with attack speed for DPS champs it also reduces the animation time, so you can reposition sooner.
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Just make it so it always stuns and if they are facing her their magic resist gets raped or keep the stun/slow medusa shit and always do a percent MR reduction so your teammates can recieve a benefit after you die for getting that close to them.
What about an alternate approach: Give her passive MR gain when she levels her ult?
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I feel like I need to make a new thread. Basically
9/0/21 (SoS not necessary with the amount of pain you dish out)
Mpen reds, mp5 yellows, mres/lvl blues, ms% quints
Ghost/Flash
Dring -> shoes -> 2x dring -> MERC TREADS (!) -> Rylai's -> void staff -> tankei schitt
Definitive probably. Hit like truck all game, be hard 2 kill
She is *extremely fucking strong* mid lane, but can't really do top because she has no innate escapes. Ult doesn't count.
EDIT: I might have to retract my earlier statement about Tear. Running out of mana in the middle of a fight as Cass REALLY SUCKS and because she needs to be constantly casting, it's not as easy to manage your mana as someone like Veigar or Annie who only need enough for 1 burst to be useful.
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EPT
