Deadly Cadence (Passive): After casting a spell any subsequent spellcasts will cost 10% less for 5 seconds. This ability stacks up to 5 times.
Noxious Blast: Cassiopeia blasts an area with a delayed high damage poison, granting her increased Movement Speed if she hits a champion.
Miasma: Cassiopeia releases a cloud of poison, lightly damaging and slowing any enemy that happens to pass through it.
Twin Fang: Cassiopeia lets loose a damaging attack at her target. If the target is poisoned the cooldown of this spell is refreshed.
Petrifying Gaze (Ultimate): Cassiopeia releases a swirl of magical energy from her eyes, stunning any enemies in front of her that are facing her and slowing any others with their back turned.
i know the hero is not out yet but for her i would get Archangels+roa+Strength of Singed. look fun
Locket, lichbane, tear, and anything else that procs on cast seem obvious based on the "spam things: go!" Interesting that she has an anti-initiation/chase ult. They want to toss flash because they think it's better on defense than offense (which is false, but doesn't stop people from claiming it), then create a champ with CC that is much, much better when you're being chased than when you're chasing?
On December 09 2010 09:17 oberon wrote: Locket, lichbane, tear, and anything else that procs on cast seem obvious based on the "spam things: go!" Interesting that she has an anti-initiation/chase ult. They want to toss flash because they think it's better on defense than offense (which is false, but doesn't stop people from claiming it), then create a champ with CC that is much, much better when you're being chased than when you're chasing?
Alrighty, then.
They want to toss Flash because it makes early ganks really friggin hard. Players can play much more aggressively with Flash up because it's so easy to dodge ganks with it.
Depending on her ranges, spell costs and AP scaling, she looks like either Locket -> tankspam or Tear -> RoA. Speculation is difficult with just her skills, though.
I like the way she sounds. If she isn't super squishy, her CC is going to be pretty intense to deal with and I really like single target nuke type ults and thats what twin fangs sounds like.
I'm wondering how long the poison lasts. Her Ulti seems nice, infinite spam on poisoned target with no cooldown and low manacost ( thanks to passive) .
On December 09 2010 09:17 oberon wrote: They want to toss flash because they think it's better on defense than offense (which is false, but doesn't stop people from claiming it)
Both players taking flash means the battle will shift toward the defending player's tower the distance of flash. I think that's clearly better for the defender. Flash can also be used to dodge skill shots (and I think even non skill shots like sion's and taric's stuns) but it can't be used to force shots to land. If you see annie or galio, you flash away instantly so if they flash in, it doesn't gain them any ground, it only cancels out your flash except you're closer to your tower. In most situations where you jump over terrain, you're more likely to save yourself by having flash and them not having flash than you are likely to kill someone by having flash and them not having flash.
One of my proudest LoL moments was when I flash dodged a Nidalees spear who tried diving me. I flashed into her as the spear came towards me then Parrrley'd her right right in the faceand auto attacked her and she died.
On December 09 2010 09:17 oberon wrote: They want to toss flash because they think it's better on defense than offense (which is false, but doesn't stop people from claiming it)
Both players taking flash means the battle will shift toward the defending player's tower the distance of flash. I think that's clearly better for the defender.
Yes, but it's marginal.
Flash can also be used to dodge skill shots (and I think even non skill shots like sion's and taric's stuns) but it can't be used to force shots to land.
Yep. On the other hand, if you're being chased as Sion, turn around to stun, and the person flashes through it...
If you see annie or galio, you flash away instantly so if they flash in, it doesn't gain them any ground, it only cancels out your flash except you're closer to your tower.
So you've just blown flash and all they had to do was look at you? What if they look at you again before your flash is off CD?
In most situations where you jump over terrain, you're more likely to save yourself by having flash and them not having flash than you are likely to kill someone by having flash and them not having flash.
I'm not sure I buy this. Flashing over a wall onto someone is often pretty deadly. Flashing over a wall can be good, but if you're exhausted, they ghost, etc., it's no guarantee -- they know just where you are, and what your escape routes are. Flashing over a wall for a kill they never see coming.
EDIT: Oberon, look at it this way. Flash allows you to instantly reposition like, 450 range or w/e, right? so if we consider both sides having this, it effectively shortens the lane by 450 assuming perfect usage and no projectile popping. by shortening the lane, you're effectively always closer to your tower and thus safer from harm.
On December 10 2010 15:13 DiracMonopole wrote: So her E ability can be spammed infinitely fast as long as the target is poisoned?
Well if its a skillshot, it has to hit, and it'd only refresh when the projectile hit the target. So you can spam it as quickly as the projectiles are hitting poisoned targets.
Just kinda wondering... If you had an enemy in the poison mist, can you just continually bite/E the poor dude until the champ died? Since it does refreshes if the enemy is poisoned
Snake with boobs... Skills look interesting though, if E is a skillshot together with the refresh from poison that could create some cool situations. Hopefully she's not too expensive, first new champ in a while I might buy.
On December 11 2010 13:23 DiracMonopole wrote: Even if her E is a skill shot, she has a stun.
Stun, miasma, then twin fang as fast as you can hit the keys.
It's still not going to be "as fast as you can hit the keys" because Twin Fang won't reset till the projectile hits.
Which means unless you run up right next to them, it's still probably going to be a 1-2 second CD in practice, depending on the projectile speed/casting animation.
Twin Fang is good. She seems like a better urgot. I had a shitty team in the first game I played with her so I didn't do well at all but I completely dominated their mid.
She doesn't seem to have much impact in teamfights.
I like her W, I might try getting it over Q. For now I'm going R>E>Q>W, but really E is your harassment tool so maxing Q isn't necessary. I feel like I might be able to get more sustained damage out of W and being able to slow them is great for setting up twin fang.
On December 15 2010 07:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Twin Fang is good. She seems like a better urgot. I had a shitty team in the first game I played with her so I didn't do well at all but I completely dominated their mid.
She doesn't seem to have much impact in teamfights.
I like her W, I might try getting it over Q. For now I'm going R>E>Q>W, but really E is your harassment tool so maxing Q isn't necessary. I feel like I might be able to get more sustained damage out of W and being able to slow them is great for setting up twin fang.
I've played a few games with her and so far I like her. She is SUPER squishy and has no great escapes. I've been using Cleanse and Flash.
I've screwed around with different skill orders. I love the range on Q, it's pretty absurd. Maxing that and E together was nice in my most recent game. One game I maxed W and E together though, and W was nice too. I'm not sure which I like better, but the ability to scare enemies away with Q spam at max range is great.
I've been playing around with Hextech Gunblade on her, but idk if it's really viable (I'm pretty scrub, so idk if it's really viable on anyone) because once she starts getting hit, she dies real fast with a little CC. I've found that even with her passive, I run out of mana real fast, so I get Tear as well, and I can stay a lot longer.
She is good for staying in the back and dishing out alot of DPS very quickly but if they come for you. You die. No escapes unless you have cleanse or flash.
I feel so useless in teamfights. It's like urgot, i dominate my lane completely then as soon as people start roaming/grouping together I become pretty useless
I'm gonna try her in 3v3's. I feel like she'll be great on magma chamber if the lanes are as separated as the rumors say. It'll be funny to see champs like Urgot and Nidalee be top-tier
I dunno, I max Q/W and leave E for last. That way she can dominate team fights with a 7s cd aoe poison - combined with her ult she's got pretty good utility for the team.
I tried leveling Q/W first but its just useless for killing anybody in lanes, they have ages to realise that their health is low and they should b. You need the burst that comes from e. Might be better in teamfights, but there weren't that many that game.
I prioritise R>Q>E>W, but i get one level of W early for the slow and a second chance poison if I miss my Q. R>E>Q>W would also work, but I tend to land a lot more Q's than E's, because of the range, so I go for that first.
My feelings on her mirror others after fighting against her a couple times last night. She was fairly difficult to deal with during the laning phase, mostly because it was hard to see where the hell her damage was coming from at times, but once the game progressed she turned into an easy kill.
What is the range on Twin Fang compared to Urgot's Q? (Not counting missile lock.) Is Twin Fang targeted or is it a mouseover? She seems like a funny mix between him and Karthus.
twin fang is targeted, idk whats with the comparison between her and urgot, the two feel vastly different, especially in how hardcore urgot RAPES in lane vs this shitty little snake, the only thing is that she has a poison cloud that mildly synergizes with a poke, thats the only real comparison you can make between the two. srsly, wtf is this cass = urgot nonsense
edit: @ waveofshadow, based on your post you clearly havnt played her, just trying to make a frame of reference, this isnt @ you even tho it may seem like it, i just keep hearing that cass is like urgot in lp and in games and its popped up in this thread too and you simply reminded me of it. sorry
On December 16 2010 00:37 barbsq wrote: twin fang is targeted, idk whats with the comparison between her and urgot, the two feel vastly different, especially in how hardcore urgot RAPES in lane vs this shitty little snake, the only thing is that she has a poison cloud that mildly synergizes with a poke, thats the only real comparison you can make between the two. srsly, wtf is this cass = urgot nonsense
edit: @ waveofshadow, based on your post you clearly havnt played her, just trying to make a frame of reference, this isnt @ you even tho it may seem like it, i just keep hearing that cass is like urgot in lp and in games and its popped up in this thread too and you simply reminded me of it. sorry
Haha I guess I struck a nerve there. Don't worry I won't let anyone compare a shit character to our beloved Urgot, I just wasn't aware she was shit as I've only seen her played once so far. Though I suppose considering how many games I've played since the patch and I've seen SWAIN more than her...I guess that says something.
lol, i'm not even sure that she's bad, she seems ok enough, its just that these ppl who keep comparing her and urgot probably havnt even played 3 games with urgot, so they have no idea what they are talking about, and that just bugs me for some reason (i am very protective and proud of my urgot, he is a very special boy)
The best use for her I've found so far is that her deeps is so amazing that she completely annihilates Dragon and Baron. They go down so fast with so little help.
I dunno I really don't have much positive to say about this champ....every game I have ever seen her in she has fed and the team who owned her lost.
I can see where the damage is supposed to be happening but by the time she can dish it out there are other players who can do it better and she is SO squishy.
On December 19 2010 05:17 WaveofShadow wrote: I dunno I really don't have much positive to say about this champ....every game I have ever seen her in she has fed and the team who owned her lost.
I can see where the damage is supposed to be happening but by the time she can dish it out there are other players who can do it better and she is SO squishy.
I think people are being too pessimistic about her and she depends a lot on a health centric build early on imo. I've been experimenting with cata --> rylai's --> banshee's and cata --> RoA --> Rylai's, and I haven't really had many survivability problems and her damage is still insane without a ton of AP items at first.
I also run ghost/cleanse and kiting with her is really good, def with rylai's so her Q ups her movement speed while slowing down her opponent's.
Overall, I think she'll get stronger and stronger as people get more experience with her.
EDIT: Also, her skilling is really interesting. I've been doing QEQWQR R > Q > W > E but I think I'm going to change that since I can be more aggressive with the new builds I'm going to try out. Something like QEQEQRQW R > E > Q > W. I just don't feel like W does that much early on except give a second attempt on a poison if you miss your Q.
On December 19 2010 05:17 WaveofShadow wrote: I dunno I really don't have much positive to say about this champ....every game I have ever seen her in she has fed and the team who owned her lost.
I can see where the damage is supposed to be happening but by the time she can dish it out there are other players who can do it better and she is SO squishy.
I think people are being too pessimistic about her and she depends a lot on a health centric build early on imo. I've been experimenting with cata --> rylai's --> banshee's and cata --> RoA --> Rylai's, and I haven't really had many survivability problems and her damage is still insane without a ton of AP items at first.
I also run ghost/cleanse and kiting with her is really good, def with rylai's so her Q ups her movement speed while slowing down her opponent's.
Overall, I think she'll get stronger and stronger as people get more experience with her.
EDIT: Also, her skilling is really interesting. I've been doing QEQWQR R > Q > W > E but I think I'm going to change that since I can be more aggressive with the new builds I'm going to try out. Something like QEQEQRQW R > E > Q > W. I just don't feel like W does that much early on except give a second attempt on a poison if you miss your Q.
Indeed, I think you are on the right track here. Health items are superior, as she gets focused super hard and puts out loads of item-independent DPS.
I believe that MS% quints and masteries are mandatory so that you can run Mercs and still be faster than everybody else.
I also agree that ghost/cleanse is the right way to go. You get focused and CC'd tons, which completely shuts down your ability to do damage (unlike a burster such as Annie)-- so the ability to absorb this and walk away is a great benefit to your team as well as yourself. It also lets you get away with coming in close to blow your ultimate without being at quite as much risk for instant death.
Tear is fun but you are just too squishy.
I'm running 0/14/16 - SoS, Cleanse mastery, and utility up to and including MS%. I'm still playing with runes, but ATM it's Mres/level blues, mpen reds, mp5/lvl yellows, MS% quints.
As for skills, I think to be optimal you want to be maxing E and then Q for raw damage, but the slow on your W is actually really good (particularly when you have rylai's), so I think W is worth maxing after E and over Q.
On December 19 2010 05:17 WaveofShadow wrote: I dunno I really don't have much positive to say about this champ....every game I have ever seen her in she has fed and the team who owned her lost.
I can see where the damage is supposed to be happening but by the time she can dish it out there are other players who can do it better and she is SO squishy.
I think people are being too pessimistic about her and she depends a lot on a health centric build early on imo. I've been experimenting with cata --> rylai's --> banshee's and cata --> RoA --> Rylai's, and I haven't really had many survivability problems and her damage is still insane without a ton of AP items at first.
I also run ghost/cleanse and kiting with her is really good, def with rylai's so her Q ups her movement speed while slowing down her opponent's.
Overall, I think she'll get stronger and stronger as people get more experience with her.
EDIT: Also, her skilling is really interesting. I've been doing QEQWQR R > Q > W > E but I think I'm going to change that since I can be more aggressive with the new builds I'm going to try out. Something like QEQEQRQW R > E > Q > W. I just don't feel like W does that much early on except give a second attempt on a poison if you miss your Q.
Indeed, I think you are on the right track here. Health items are superior, as she gets focused super hard and puts out loads of item-independent DPS.
I believe that MS% quints and masteries are mandatory so that you can run Mercs and still be faster than everybody else.
I also agree that ghost/cleanse is the right way to go. You get focused and CC'd tons, which completely shuts down your ability to do damage (unlike a burster such as Annie)-- so the ability to absorb this and walk away is a great benefit to your team as well as yourself. It also lets you get away with coming in close to blow your ultimate without being at quite as much risk for instant death.
Tear is fun but you are just too squishy.
I'm running 0/14/16 - SoS, Cleanse mastery, and utility up to and including MS%. I'm still playing with runes, but ATM it's Mres/level blues, mpen reds, mp5/lvl yellows, MS% quints.
As for skills, I think to be optimal you want to be maxing E and then Q for raw damage, but the slow on your W is actually really good (particularly when you have rylai's), so I think W is worth maxing after E and over Q.
I'm running something similar but haven't tried MS quints so I'll have to do that.
I really *want* to find a way to make Tear good on her, it just synergizes far far too well with her abilities to ignore. When I have some time I will attempt some raw mana/tank builds utilizing SoS and going something like Crystal -> Catalyst Shoes Tear Catalyst -> RoA Mercs Glacial Shroud Archangel's Frozen Heart Banshee's
On December 21 2010 12:54 phyvo wrote: Funny note, you can sorta jungle Cass. 0/16/14 with armor seals and health quints and you can sorta do a run... but without lizard.
Also if you run out of golem buff you're kinda screwed.
Maybe you could get farther or do better with a more offensive build, idk.
you can do a full run and be done with very little hp left, making a gank pretty risky
20%, skillshot slow skill, so at least you're better off than olaf at ganking
So, Cass free week... I've been trying her out, and she pretty much sucks balls. But as mentioned in the two last posts, she can jungle. What i don't think they capture is, that she is (imo) an amazing jungle. Going golem > everything but red, you can clear this so fast that you can't even get boots and ward when you b. She's just insanely fast. When I'm done I got about 50% hp, so if a lane is pushing you can take another hp pot and gank just fine (though, her gank without red is really weak). This is running 1/16/11(I think 11? getting imp flash at least). Another cool thing about jungling her is the itembuild you kinda get streamlined into. I open cloth + 4 hp pots (so you can afford boots + ward when b) and then go HoG > Cata > RoA. The extra hp and armor from HoG is quite sweet on cass, since she will get beaten up a bit due to the short range on e. Thoughts?
Has anyone done a cass + teemo or cass + twitch dual lane yet? I assume doing that, and taking twin fang at level 1, is the only thing that makes her useful...
On January 25 2011 17:22 Brees wrote: shes just really annoying to lane against, then drops off bigtime
I don't know if she drops off. Maybe she does, but in the games I've been playing in the last couple days, she's scaled very well. I think a major mistake that Cass players make is trying to (in teamfights) play her like a caster, when she behaves much more like a ranged DPS AD carry. Cass cannot be in the middle of the fight, but should instead be in the outskirts, hitting whoever she can- even if it's a tank. As a result of this role, combined with the low, low AP ratio on her E, I think that Cass needs to itemize with these priorities:
1. Survivability 2. Magic pen 3. AP
But she benefits from all of these differently at different points in the game. In the early game, most of your damage is coming from your harass with Q because nobody will let you get close enough to rail them with E repeatedly. Q has a high AP ratio, so Cass benefits immensely from AP runes and a couple Doran's rings. Survivability is extremely important for her in the midgame- because she has far too much base magic damage to be ignored, and nobody has enough magic armor to do so. However, she is extremely squishy and has to be just a bit too close to the fight to remain (almost) completely safe as a champ like Ashe would. In the lategame, the enemy tanks (eg, the only cats who will be in range of your spells if you are spacing correctly) are going to have huge amounts of magic resistance, so a Void Staff is probably mandatory. So with this in mind, then, I think an optimal build for Cass would be something like
9/9/12 (SoS is a must, it lets you rock your lane in ways never before thought possible) Mpen Reds, flat AP quints, AP/lvl blues, mp5 yellows Dring -> Shoes -> 1/2 more Drings -> sorc shoes -> Rylai's (So good with every single one of her spells, and gives that desperately needed midgame beef) -> Void Staff -> Banshee's or Hourglass or whatever other tanky shit you like
DO NOT GET TEAR ON CASS JESUS FUCK SHE DOES NOT NEED THE MANA
My match history shows me going Rylais -> Abyssal. I think this has been a mistake, as the Abyssal is coming way too late to make a significant difference in my effectiveness vs the enemies that I can hit (the tanks). I look forward to playing some games with proper items on her, later today.
Again, Cass might be as bad as everyone says she is. However, they say the same thing about Teemo- who is simply insanely strong at this point in time.
EDIT: I just had the thought that, if rushing void staff, Mercs might be a much better choice than sorc shoes. Hmmm
9/7/14 lets you take Greed, Meditation and Buff Duration while only sacrificing 4 Armor. I would definitely take that over 9/9/12. You especially want Meditation and you will probably take blue buff frequently so Buff Duration is a good idea.
(and if you want the 4 Armor so badly, get them on runes, seriously!)
On January 26 2011 08:17 spinesheath wrote: 9/7/14 lets you take Greed, Meditation and Buff Duration while only sacrificing 4 Armor. I would definitely take that over 9/9/12. You especially want Meditation and you will probably take blue buff frequently so Buff Duration is a good idea.
The entire point of the 12 in Utility is to get the Meditation and Greed masteries. I really don't feel that blue buff is necessary on Cass, but it's certainly not a bad idea. I may go for movement speed instead of the extra 4 armor.
Basically the only reason for that is I always forget that you don't need 6 in defensive to get SoS.
Honestly Cass has an awesome qwe skillset. Riot just trolled her super hard with the ult considering another hero with a skill similar to it gets a huge benefit out of hitting their back with a larger range (Tryndamere W). Just make it so it always stuns and if they are facing her their magic resist gets raped or keep the stun/slow medusa shit and always do a percent MR reduction so your teammates can recieve a benefit after you die for getting that close to them.
I was doing R > Q > W > E, a pretty bad way to level her skills, not touching E until I had maxed Q and W, but I think it should be closer to something like this
R > Q=E > W QWEQQREEEQRQQWWRWW
Focus Q more if you're teamfights are going to be more close ranged and clumped together, E if teamfights are spread out and long range
On January 26 2011 08:44 mrgerry wrote: Honestly Cass has an awesome qwe skillset. Riot just trolled her super hard with the ult considering another hero with a skill similar to it gets a huge benefit out of hitting their back with a larger range (Tryndamere W). Just make it so it always stuns and if they are facing her their magic resist gets raped or keep the stun/slow medusa shit and always do a percent MR reduction so your teammates can recieve a benefit after you die for getting that close to them.
pretty much, she's good against the worst type of char in the game (melee dps) and horrid against ranged dps. a winning combination to being fucking horrible
On January 26 2011 08:44 mrgerry wrote: Honestly Cass has an awesome qwe skillset. Riot just trolled her super hard with the ult considering another hero with a skill similar to it gets a huge benefit out of hitting their back with a larger range (Tryndamere W). Just make it so it always stuns and if they are facing her their magic resist gets raped or keep the stun/slow medusa shit and always do a percent MR reduction so your teammates can recieve a benefit after you die for getting that close to them.
pretty much, she's good against the worst type of char in the game (melee dps) and horrid against ranged dps. a winning combination to being fucking horrible
I think it goes beyond this: her E is low damage/fast reload, but LoL is all about dropping a ton of damage on someone and then repositioning. She either has not use it whenever it's up (reduced DPS) or not reposition (reduced lifespan). At least with attack speed for DPS champs it also reduces the animation time, so you can reposition sooner.
Just make it so it always stuns and if they are facing her their magic resist gets raped or keep the stun/slow medusa shit and always do a percent MR reduction so your teammates can recieve a benefit after you die for getting that close to them.
What about an alternate approach: Give her passive MR gain when she levels her ult?
Definitive probably. Hit like truck all game, be hard 2 kill
She is *extremely fucking strong* mid lane, but can't really do top because she has no innate escapes. Ult doesn't count.
EDIT: I might have to retract my earlier statement about Tear. Running out of mana in the middle of a fight as Cass REALLY SUCKS and because she needs to be constantly casting, it's not as easy to manage your mana as someone like Veigar or Annie who only need enough for 1 burst to be useful.
Like Odds, I've been getting amazing success mid-lane. It doesn't even matter the matchup. However, I also feel that those I've been up against have no idea what to do vs Cass and generally brain fart.
I go CDR because she really relies on hitting Q. Not because of what it does to E, but simply because it's a skillshot and does a ton of damage. I also feel it's her main source of survival because of the Movespeed buff. It's just too good to miss.
1337 Tricks You can cast Q as you're casting other things. Which means, if you're fast, you can do: Shift + E and hit Q really quick. If the target is at least half E range away, the poison will land before E hits, and you'll get the 0.5sec CD buff on E. Q can be delayed at anytime during the cast animation of E. If you move your mouse fast enough, Q can be cast at a different place than E.
Definitive probably. Hit like truck all game, be hard 2 kill
She is *extremely fucking strong* mid lane, but can't really do top because she has no innate escapes. Ult doesn't count.
EDIT: I might have to retract my earlier statement about Tear. Running out of mana in the middle of a fight as Cass REALLY SUCKS and because she needs to be constantly casting, it's not as easy to manage your mana as someone like Veigar or Annie who only need enough for 1 burst to be useful.
Bump because she`s pretty fun and a different flavor of `ranged DPS`
A few things you might want to consider:
- Cleanse > ghost. It really sucks balls for her damage output if she get stunned or silenced in the middle of chaining twin fangs since you have to start from the poison all over again, and sometimes that can cost you in 1 v 1 fights. She kites like a boss with rylais and her two skills + ulti, and you really REALLY don't want to be in a position where if you don't ghost you're going to get caught.
- Sheen instead of tear. Tear proved to be an absolute overkill on mana given that she's not a super-duper roaming champ and can't safely waddle around the map farming endlessly anyways. A couple of blue buffs per game and you're good to go for the most part. Sheen is one of the better ways of getting mana without going catalyst, and it does help your DPS somewhat as well. Cass has decent base AD, range and attack animations. You may or may not build a lichbane.
At some point tonight I actually want to try double catalyst -> double RoA for super tanky Cass and see how that works out. If I'm feeling salty, maybe triple cata or double cata -> tear
Cleanse would be a really nice luxury, but she is DPS and kinda needs ghost to be able to space properly and consistently in a fight.
I usually level q>>e>>w starting with d-ring and going straight to another dorans ring/deathcap. She needs the higher levels in q to do more reliable dmg early game and to get the speed boost.
Here's how i've been building her. To date she is still my absolute favorite champion, very fun to play, nukes the hell out of people, and an ulti that can turn a team fight around in your favor.
9/0/21 masteries. 1 point in exhaust mastery. 3 points on CDR and 2 on movement. Rest of mana regen/experience
Magic pen marks. Flat 5 AP quints. Mana regen per 5 /lvl seals. CDR glyphs.
Skilling order: Open with Q > E > W > E > E > R > Max Q > Max W
Start with doran's ring. Back at 800 gold to get shoes + ability tome. Go back into lane, get first blood (obviously subjective but you should be hitting pretty hard). For her laning, i have to say avoid Q'ing the minions as much as possible. so try to aim slightly to the side and let the aoe hit them. Hitting minions too much overextends yourself and primes for a gank. Last hit with auto attack like normal.
feel free to use E to harass too when you know you're not going for a kill, good damage, target nuke, the cool down bonus from the poison is only really to set you up for continuous damage. Open combo's with W to slow and get free guaranteed poison compared to Q, get 2 E's off, Q to make sure you keep up with them and they'll be dead fast.
If they do turn around for some reason, just exhaust + ignite and they wont be able to hurt you.
Depending on how much gold you have next time you back. Get sorc shoe + either mejai if you think you're gonna roll them, or hextech gunblade. This will solve any drop in early/mid transition damage and squishyness. Finish into will of the ancients, or wait a bit and deathcap first (you already have the 20% spell vamp which is what you want). After death cap, finish will of the ancients now for sure and start working on void staff.
After securing your magic pen, work on getting some sort of survivability. If lots of magic, then just get abyssal. If lots of physical, you can zhonya. A lot of people get rylai/RoA on her. Between the two i'd go with Rylai for the slow. But you dont need to rush it. Her damage output with the spell vamp is enough to stay alive during engagements.
Having finished most of your items, i think you have space for one more. At this point you can save up for an arch angels and become an absolute menace. 900AP cass lets your twin fang nuke for about 700 a pop or so? thats 1400 DPS from 1 skill. While twin fang hits that hard, Q is also hitting 700 every 2.7 seconds and W is proccing a couple hundred per second as well. Ulti at this point should be hitting around 800 also i think.
I personally dont agree with all the early survivability people get for her, it seems unneccesary to me =\.
*above is based on my experience with her in minimum 100+ normal games and a couple ranked games (1400 ELO but still getting better)
It seems as though there are really multiple viable ways of building her in terms of which skills to max first.
If I know it's going to be a lane where I can easily harass without paying for it, I will max R>E>Q>W with one point in W early for slow/AoE creep farming/whatever.
If I know I need to sit back and rice while surviving, R>W>Q>E.
I usually run Boots 3 and 2/3 MS quints on her with my first items being Cata then turning it into RoA and getting Rylai's, usually building HP first. No Tear necessary with MP5 yellows.
I find I don't kick in until later on with Cass but that's honestly fine for the way I play her; this way I survive much longer, can kite with Rylai's slow/Boots/W slow VERY easily, and once I have my core and start working towards Deathcap I start bringing the pain. That's not to say scoring kills on her is hard without a lot of early AP, you just have to be smart about it. Maxing E first for thsoe kills is a HUGE plus.
Her Ult is excellent in teamfights, but positioning is key on her---you do NOT want to get caught in any way because if you do and summoners are down you're done. (I usually run Ghost/Flash instead of CLeanse/Flash because ghost makes for easy chasing/kiting, but I can definitely see the merit in Cleanse if you're not so good with positioning. I restate, positioning on Cass in fights/lane is absolutely essential.)
I find that people focus too much on survivability with her instead of just getting power. I also don't get why people aren't focusing on her q. Her q is her source of survivability along with her ult to counter blink champs. On AD carries do you rush survivability items? No, same with cass still go for the normal caster route and get a Deathcap (akin to IE). Use your Q to kite, she is one of the if not the most reliant champion on positioning. Got a w to kite as well. The only early survivability I would buy on her is stacking 2-3 dorans rings or getting a catalyst which would eventually turn into banshees.
There is no need to gimp yourself at any part of the game as cass. Your early game is amazing, your mid game can be amazing too if you get dmg and your late game is amazing because of your massive dmg output if you have a competent team.
On May 15 2011 13:15 ShoreT wrote: Honestly, I think if they just buffed her ults range a little bit she'd be pretty decent. The range on her ult is just awful though.
The wiki says its 850, the same range as her q. Its width has been buffed too in a recent patch, as well as the hit detection. I think her ult is pretty damn good now.
On May 15 2011 13:15 ShoreT wrote: Honestly, I think if they just buffed her ults range a little bit she'd be pretty decent. The range on her ult is just awful though.
Ult range is fine. You hit people in almost (if not) a 180% radius from you and much further out then the targeting reticule shows.
I played vs casseopia in lane, thought I'd be pretty east as annie. Went 0/6 in lane. With fiddle constantly ganking and getting kills a couple of times. If she hit her slow poison then she just hit her other poison and then run up and kill me in 3 twin fangs, shit was so OP.
Of course I went 16/9/12 because annie is overpowered especially with fiddle and double book, tower dive all day.
I think spell vamp is probably important on her, her DPS is retarded I don't know how we haven't seen her more. A classic AP nuke with a 0.5 second CD has to be strong.
On July 05 2011 06:13 Slayer91 wrote: I played vs casseopia in lane, thought I'd be pretty east as annie. Went 0/6 in lane. With fiddle constantly ganking and getting kills a couple of times. If she hit her slow poison then she just hit her other poison and then run up and kill me in 3 twin fangs, shit was so OP.
Of course I went 16/9/12 because annie is overpowered especially with fiddle and double book, tower dive all day.
I think spell vamp is probably important on her, her DPS is retarded I don't know how we haven't seen her more. A classic AP nuke with a 0.5 second CD has to be strong.
spell vamp is nice, but it's not your first priority. Basically you need
doran's ring tear sorc shoes rylai's
and then think about spell vamp. pretty much choose between wota and moonflair i think. Both are good but you really need deathcap probably.
On July 05 2011 06:13 Slayer91 wrote: I played vs casseopia in lane, thought I'd be pretty east as annie. Went 0/6 in lane. With fiddle constantly ganking and getting kills a couple of times. If she hit her slow poison then she just hit her other poison and then run up and kill me in 3 twin fangs, shit was so OP.
Of course I went 16/9/12 because annie is overpowered especially with fiddle and double book, tower dive all day.
I think spell vamp is probably important on her, her DPS is retarded I don't know how we haven't seen her more. A classic AP nuke with a 0.5 second CD has to be strong.
spell vamp is nice, but it's not your first priority. Basically you need
doran's ring tear sorc shoes rylai's
and then think about spell vamp. pretty much choose between wota and moonflair i think. Both are good but you really need deathcap probably.
Just like Mercs are typically bad on ranged AD, Spellblade is bad on Cass. Is there even any champ who would want Spellblade...?
On July 05 2011 06:13 Slayer91 wrote: I played vs casseopia in lane, thought I'd be pretty east as annie. Went 0/6 in lane. With fiddle constantly ganking and getting kills a couple of times. If she hit her slow poison then she just hit her other poison and then run up and kill me in 3 twin fangs, shit was so OP.
Of course I went 16/9/12 because annie is overpowered especially with fiddle and double book, tower dive all day.
I think spell vamp is probably important on her, her DPS is retarded I don't know how we haven't seen her more. A classic AP nuke with a 0.5 second CD has to be strong.
spell vamp is nice, but it's not your first priority. Basically you need
doran's ring tear sorc shoes rylai's
and then think about spell vamp. pretty much choose between wota and moonflair i think. Both are good but you really need deathcap probably.
Just like Mercs are typically bad on ranged AD, Spellblade is bad on Cass. Is there even any champ who would want Spellblade...?
It might be bad, I've only gotten it once. Either way, it's really low on her priority list.
That said, if anyone should get it, it's probably Cass- what with that whole DPS AP thing and all. You're right though I think: Zhonyas or QSS probably better.
Okay, so, cass guide.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SET YOUR E TO SMARTCAST
Example game, I had a real bad start but pulled it out with some ganks. Maybe i'll make a pack later:
0/8/22. If you complain about this, urbad. The slut really needs the hp regen from SoS, and because you're getting tear, you'll have plenty.
Flash/Teleport. Flash = an escape and ultimate positioning tool for your, uh, ultimate.
Someone will probably give me flak about teleport, but it's really really essential in soloq. Because Cass is an insanely good chaser and cleanup hero, you want to show up to every gank attempt on another lane and hopefully collect the double/triple kills. Usually when you show up the enemies' cc will already be gone and you can just dps damage everything to death.
Runes
Red: mpen Yellow: flat mana regen blue: flat AP quint: flat AP
The flat mana regen and AP probably seems silly to some. I don't really care. It maximizes your effectiveness at the single most important time of the game for you: levels 1-5. The extra AP from these runes as well as your Dring will increase the damage on your Q by 35, which is HUGE for harassing someone out of the lane or getting a kill.
People to avoid laning against:
Kass. He will rape you. Annie/malz will give you a rough time but you can go evenly against them.\
people who you should rape: everyone else.
Items, not really negotiable:
Dring Sorc shoes Tear Rylai's AA/Deathcap/wota in whatever order you please. Then like, whatever
Dring obvious, gotta capitalize on those first few levels. Sorc shoes also obvious. Tear also obvious: you get better use out of it than anyone else in the game, including Karthus. Rylai's makes you uncatchable, inescapable, unkillable. Rest give AP.
The timing of the tear sort of works out so that you get it at roughly the same time that your mana regen runes lose their lustre. Yay, planning ahead!
Gameplay:
Rape your lane. Hit him with a Q every time he goes in for a last hit, comes in to harass you, or runs away from you in a predictable line. Follow Q's with E's - if they're running they'll usually be under their tower and you can hit them with another Q. Bait jungle ganks from Udyr, kite him and receive double buff.
Use teleport to gank, NOT to return to your lane. Farm as much as possible but not at the expense of having your godly teleport on cooldown.
You have the most underestimated ult in the game. When a teamfight starts, keep to the edges using your Q and W until most of the enemy CC is down or someone on your team initiates with an AoE stun or something. Best example: amumu ult. Mumu ults, enemy team is disabled for 2s, you hit the ezmode followup ult and they're stunned for another 2 and probably all dead.
In fights,just hit with your spells really. People are really really easy to hit with Q when they're running away, you should almost never miss even blind Q's. Keep as much space between you and opponents as possible unless you *know* you can kill em and get away, then close it up to increase your DPS - E refreshes when it hits, and takes longer to hit from farther away.
In that replay you didn't level up your W until like level 13. Is that normal or special for that game? Also I still seem to have problems hitting people with q in lane... maybe I am not used to the range yet and need more practice but cass is so slow, people stay max range from you so at best you clip them with q and then the increased movement speed doesn't seem enough to run up to them and get 1 or 2 twin fangs off on them. I guess I can try running movement speed quints on her and see how they work out.
On July 05 2011 06:13 Slayer91 wrote: I played vs casseopia in lane, thought I'd be pretty east as annie. Went 0/6 in lane. With fiddle constantly ganking and getting kills a couple of times. If she hit her slow poison then she just hit her other poison and then run up and kill me in 3 twin fangs, shit was so OP.
Of course I went 16/9/12 because annie is overpowered especially with fiddle and double book, tower dive all day.
I think spell vamp is probably important on her, her DPS is retarded I don't know how we haven't seen her more. A classic AP nuke with a 0.5 second CD has to be strong.
spell vamp is nice, but it's not your first priority. Basically you need
doran's ring tear sorc shoes rylai's
and then think about spell vamp. pretty much choose between wota and moonflair i think. Both are good but you really need deathcap probably.
Just like Mercs are typically bad on ranged AD, Spellblade is bad on Cass. Is there even any champ who would want Spellblade...?
It might be bad, I've only gotten it once. Either way, it's really low on her priority list.
That said, if anyone should get it, it's probably Cass- what with that whole DPS AP thing and all. You're right though I think: Zhonyas or QSS probably better.
Okay, so, cass guide.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SET YOUR E TO SMARTCAST
Example game, I had a real bad start but pulled it out with some ganks. Maybe i'll make a pack later:
0/8/22. If you complain about this, urbad. The slut really needs the hp regen from SoS, and because you're getting tear, you'll have plenty.
Flash/Teleport. Flash = an escape and ultimate positioning tool for your, uh, ultimate.
Someone will probably give me flak about teleport, but it's really really essential in soloq. Because Cass is an insanely good chaser and cleanup hero, you want to show up to every gank attempt on another lane and hopefully collect the double/triple kills. Usually when you show up the enemies' cc will already be gone and you can just dps damage everything to death.
Runes
Red: mpen Yellow: flat mana regen blue: flat AP quint: flat AP
The flat mana regen and AP probably seems silly to some. I don't really care. It maximizes your effectiveness at the single most important time of the game for you: levels 1-5. The extra AP from these runes as well as your Dring will increase the damage on your Q by 35, which is HUGE for harassing someone out of the lane or getting a kill.
People to avoid laning against:
Kass. He will rape you. Annie/malz will give you a rough time but you can go evenly against them.\
people who you should rape: everyone else.
Items, not really negotiable:
Dring Sorc shoes Tear Rylai's AA/Deathcap/wota in whatever order you please. Then like, whatever
Dring obvious, gotta capitalize on those first few levels. Sorc shoes also obvious. Tear also obvious: you get better use out of it than anyone else in the game, including Karthus. Rylai's makes you uncatchable, inescapable, unkillable. Rest give AP.
The timing of the tear sort of works out so that you get it at roughly the same time that your mana regen runes lose their lustre. Yay, planning ahead!
Gameplay:
Rape your lane. Hit him with a Q every time he goes in for a last hit, comes in to harass you, or runs away from you in a predictable line. Follow Q's with E's - if they're running they'll usually be under their tower and you can hit them with another Q. Bait jungle ganks from Udyr, kite him and receive double buff.
Use teleport to gank, NOT to return to your lane. Farm as much as possible but not at the expense of having your godly teleport on cooldown.
You have the most underestimated ult in the game. When a teamfight starts, keep to the edges using your Q and W until most of the enemy CC is down or someone on your team initiates with an AoE stun or something. Best example: amumu ult. Mumu ults, enemy team is disabled for 2s, you hit the ezmode followup ult and they're stunned for another 2 and probably all dead.
In fights,just hit with your spells really. People are really really easy to hit with Q when they're running away, you should almost never miss even blind Q's. Keep as much space between you and opponents as possible unless you *know* you can kill em and get away, then close it up to increase your DPS - E refreshes when it hits, and takes longer to hit from farther away.
KS like a boss.
Ok you have to answer a few things for me because I build her differently: 0/8/22 over 9/0/21, why exactly? Tear, why? I suppose I could understand it if you're going to be spamming Q a lot but honestly farming with Q sucks early levels; great for harass but E is far superior harass.
No RoA rush, why? Without early Cata she is unbelievably vulnerable to ganks from anyone except Udyr and even then without that health regen (SoS is inferior to Cata regen imo) she can easily be harassed out of lane at early levels.
The rest I more or less agree with, though not having watched your game (yet) I don't know what your leveling skill order is.
Answer me these questions three, if you will. Cass is one of fave champs and I would love further discussion.
0.8.22 is personal preference. I have always felt that the 15% spellpen is wildly overrated and you do need some sort of regen in the lane. It also synergizes very well with your Tear. As for said tear, you really do need it because without it you *will* run out of mana at some inconvenient point. Even if for some reason you aren't harassing with Q in the lane constantly, which you absolutely should be, you desperately need the mana to properly dps dragon and baron. You do more damage to dragon and baron than any other champ in the game, you need to capitalize on it.
Don't use your flash aggressively if you can help it. Ganks can be tough to deal with, but you should usually be able to escape with your flash, ult, or both.
The reason I level Q first and Q and E fully before W is that W is frankly kind of bad pre-rylais, with IRA low damage, small slow, and high cd. It has a good ap ratio though which means that my rylais makes it legit useful from the moment I level it.
As for harassing in the lane with Q over E, I do both. Q is one of the longest range, easiest to hit skills in the game, so you can usually just stand in the creeps and nail your opponent every time he does anything. Dry E's have their place too (slowing down teemo, after a combo instead of risking a missed Q, etc) but just not as important as Q.
I just started playing her. More often than not i find myself pushing the lane hard starting from level 4, when i can w -> q to kill the ranged minions. I usually ward the side brush to avoid ganks and just constantly keep the minions towards their tower. Is this the standard playstyle? Or do you just save nukes for the champions? He attack animation and damage are pretty low, I'm having trouble last hitting with just attacks.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cXOzE.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/HOSJD/casswins.jpg)
