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On January 27 2013 14:37 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
The biggest problem with Ashe is that you just get so owned in lane by like 90% of the pairs bot
Actually, I found if you go with Lulu, Taric, Leona, or some other high damage support, you can often win fights easily. Barrier as the 2nd summoner is the key to beating burst lanes.
Again, you're kinda low damage early game so you need to (preferably) kite to win. If their lane has no hard initiation, you can play Ashe/Nunu and walk all over people with BB and infinite slows.
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On the other hand Ashe is a great 2v1 laner. Huge range, great poke, you can inflict great punishment when the solo laner gets into range and she's awesome at supporting ganks. Best of all it gets her through her toughest period.
Giants used Ashe exceptionally well in their game against Fnatic at LCS. Abused her range to smash the top tower early and get FB, kept her shielded from a 2v2 lane till midgame then used plenty of vision to open up arrow opportunities.
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what?
ashe has one of the best laneing phases you just go balls out aggressive and push the lane like crazy. Just like you would with cait but ashe's W compared to cait's Q is a bit weaker but the instant cast time, the added slow and the huge cone makes it so much better because you can combo it with an auto very often.
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what you think about ashes E? i always max it for maximun farm at early stages, best case at 15 min i have 700 extra gold.
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cashashe loves E and averice blade
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On January 28 2013 04:25 clickrush wrote:
what?
ashe has one of the best laneing phases you just go balls out aggressive and push the lane like crazy. Just like you would with cait but ashe's W compared to cait's Q is a bit weaker but the instant cast time, the added slow and the huge cone makes it so much better because you can combo it with an auto very often.
I think ashe W is a little more unreliable than cait Q, not by alot, but the damage output at the end of the arc leaves some spaces in between where targets might not get hit (doesn't happen that often, just enough to notice).
I don't think ashe has a good laning phase at all (this is after maining ashe for a few hundred games), she has to play conservative while poking with w to get cs when jungle doesn't show for a minute or two, and she gets crushed by 90% of bot lanes possible because her positioning play is so unforgiving.
And if the opponent ADC gets vamp scepter or has a sona or any sort of lead to where you get zoned... laning is a straight bitch.
EDIT* - FUcking a I popped my 1000th post cherry on this reply. Goddamnit I was trying to save it... >.>
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Just copying jcc's post about cAshe here (the discussion pans a few more posts after that) since it was posted just a few hours ago:
On February 28 2013 01:56 jcc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 16:38 iCanada wrote:On February 27 2013 13:59 Sermokala wrote:On February 27 2013 13:48 Zooper31 wrote:On February 27 2013 13:43 zodde wrote:On February 27 2013 13:25 Sermokala wrote:On February 27 2013 13:19 zodde wrote:On February 27 2013 13:13 Sermokala wrote:
Its not even akali or rengar anymore. Any of the new super gapcloser junglers or god forbid hecarim or garen come out of the woodwork the second your out of position and you know that you're already fucked and gona die. Garen is so good at this. Midgame, an ADCs barely scratch garen, but he kills them in like 4 seconds. Hate that guy. His W is getting nerfed though, so i guess that will help. I've decided to just go stright bortk omen whenever I see garen in games. not too much longer until bortk gives as too for a good 1 item power curve. Gotta try that. Anyone knows when the botrk change is supposed to go live? The 5% change is live now. It's fully buffed atm. He's refering to the 30%as that bortk has on the pbe right now and should be going in the next patch on the 28th when maintinence was annouced today. Not sure on the change as patch notes arnt out yet ofc. Adcs now have a really weak mid game for a strong early and late game. So champs are being picked up that have a super charged mid game to throw off the adc. Garen vi hec j4 still can't touch a 6 item adc tho. Nasus on the other hand makes a 6 item AD worthless. Wither make them move so slow, do no damages. Just manage to get your team to stall till 40 minute mark you win erry game. Be a 5k HP 200/200 resistances freak who makes their AD useless and has a Q that does like +800 damage. In addition, gets AoE 5% per second Hp burn (which also gives him increased AD) on his ult. Nasus R so strong in League of Warmogs, even if you just sticking to one tank for one second you prolly going to hit the max AD bonus from his R, if you running at their AD you probably going to get like +500 AD with everyone trying to peel you. You can win 45 minute games where other team like 10-15k gold ahead. On February 27 2013 16:19 Shotcoder wrote:On February 27 2013 16:13 Craton wrote:
200 CS with a 0 threat build. What exactly is the enemy team doing during all of this? Zero threat? You are completely fine because of your ult. Yes you dont have the same damage, but you're 800 gold behind? Is that really back breaking in a lane where you're main focus is farming? Dorans>Avarice>BF is completely viable and barely puts you behind if you play passive. How you going to stop a Taric, Thresh, Alistar, Lulu, Lux, Nautilus, Blitz, Sona, Leona or Zyra from just poking your balls off / just hard engaging on you? You can't use arrow every trade... Its not like you can expect your jungler to pressure bottom that hard either because bottom ridiculously hard to gank always 2+ wards down there unless one just expire. I don't buy it, think you just get totally crushed by any competent bot lane if you rush Avarice while having no trading ability. Only Support I could see not just totally zoning you is like Soraka, but no one plays Soraka anymore. Ok, you're making alot of incorrect assumptions here and seem to not be very comfortable with Ashe's playstyle in general. You ask how to deal with hard initiating supports in lane, and i'm guessing that this leaks into later on in the game into "How do you deal with hard initiating jungler ganks? Or hard initating bruisers in team fights?" - None of this matters to Cash Ashe because it is IRRELEVANT to what items you get. That initial 800 gold into avarice changes none of those dynamics, if anything it makes them easier to deal with because you can peak faster and kill those bruisers faster before they hit dangerous peaks. Now, i also described the scenario on WHAT TO DO to appropriately get away with this build in a way that the enemy adc, nothing short of super blue golems lvl 2 all in, can do to stop. I'll set my conditions on when i MOST OFTEN pick Cash Ashe and the scenarios she excels in for GUARENTEED advantages. - 1) - You are blue side. Not because of golems, but because it allows you to abuse your lvl 1 crit / W by harassing the blue.
- 2) - First request Sona support, and if you cant get sona get Zyra, and worst case scenario get janna. Why? Sona allows you to start dorans safely, provides the strongest lvl 1 in bot lane in conjunction with your crit / w, and allows you to TOGETHER rush to their blue, "60" second ward their banana bush, then green ward their blue.
You can force their jungler to a) Back cuz he gets low from your harass b) the enemy bot lane to get REAL low from defending your harass, c) steal blue cuz hes trying to smiteless and you hit it over wall, or d) he has to smite and mid has to waste time in conjunction with their bot to stall your harass.
- 3) That you know how to appropriately control lane flow and after the lvl 1 stuff you come to lane (ideally ahead in hp), SHOVE IT HARD, and non stop shove until you hit about 800 -1200 gold, immediately back, buy avarice and maybe longsword or a few pots. you can get away with this cuz you harassed the fuck out of the jungler and KNOW he cant punish for 3-4 minutes.
And almost no enemy bot lane can deal with that kind of shove with a dorans start ashe + sona or zyra in the first 3 levels unless they want to risk an all in where the likelihood of your jungler being there is MUCH higher than theirs.
- 4) On return of buying your avarice, you again shove fast 2-3 waves, then shop and you can equalize what items they bought. They started dorans too and bought vamp? Ok, you bought dorans, avarice, shoved, shopped, buy longsword. THE TRADE VALUE IS EQUAL in atk damage, he only has the 10% lifesteal, which means nothing to you cuz you have sona and want SELECTIVE burst trades with W, + Sona Q and autos. Not extended trades or allins.
- 5) Ashe and Sona both have HUGE range, learn to kite, learn to harass CORRECTLY, learn to disengage.
- 6) Supports like taric are actually VERY easy to deal with. He's sort of a joke support after a certain elo, very easy to push out of lane if the enemy adc has long range and the enemy support is ranged.
Also leona / blitz supports are predictable. Blitz support is also very squishy. Dont get grabbed, and if he runs up to you to punch you fucking just attack him, he is squishy, he will either die, back, or the trade will be equal deaths. Which favors you cuz you have a CONSTANT larger income.
- 7) Ashe isn't the best "herp derp" pick this adc whenever you want. Much like Vayne, Kog, I put Ashe in the hyper carry category.
She has no ingrained escape, so if you are 4th pick and they ALREADY have J4, Leona, Ahri, etc then you chose your fate. That is a scenario you'd want a safer adc like ezreal, trist, sivir, etc. BUT, if you pick ashe against a good comp, OR you get so much money so fast and your team KNOWS how to play with an ashe (cuz its very different than playin with a graves or ezreal), you can still easily win and still be ahead.
Typical build order btw would be: Dorans --> first 800 fast buy avarice --> longsword ---> BF or pickaxe (depending on how soon you gotta back) ---> vamp --> Beserks ---> Shiv ---> BotRK or LW, etc etc.
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On February 28 2013 06:14 SwizzY wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 04:25 clickrush wrote:
what?
ashe has one of the best laneing phases you just go balls out aggressive and push the lane like crazy. Just like you would with cait but ashe's W compared to cait's Q is a bit weaker but the instant cast time, the added slow and the huge cone makes it so much better because you can combo it with an auto very often. I think ashe W is a little more unreliable than cait Q, not by alot, but the damage output at the end of the arc leaves some spaces in between where targets might not get hit (doesn't happen that often, just enough to notice). I don't think ashe has a good laning phase at all (this is after maining ashe for a few hundred games), she has to play conservative while poking with w to get cs when jungle doesn't show for a minute or two, and she gets crushed by 90% of bot lanes possible because her positioning play is so unforgiving. And if the opponent ADC gets vamp scepter or has a sona or any sort of lead to where you get zoned... laning is a straight bitch. EDIT* - FUcking a I popped my 1000th post cherry on this reply. Goddamnit I was trying to save it... >.>
Make the post anyways and then post a few more times to replies in your thread. No one will notice!
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Ashe has one of the worst laning phases.You cant poke people without pushing creeps and you lose most of trades against other champions.
She also have no escape mechanism like graves ez and that makes her very weak against assasin champions.She isnt late game king like vayne kog aswell.
I dont see any reason to pick her instead of another ad carry lol.
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On February 28 2013 09:53 Silentenigma wrote:
Ashe has one of the worst laning phases.You cant poke people without pushing creeps and you lose most of trades against other champions.
She also have no escape mechanism like graves ez and that makes her very weak against assasin champions.She isnt late game king like vayne kog aswell.
I dont see any reason to pick her instead of another ad carry lol.
Ashe is a monster late game against the right teams. She doesn't have vayne's damage, but arrow is unbelievably strong, and permanent slows can wreck anyone without a gap closer.
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On February 28 2013 10:34 triangle wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 09:53 Silentenigma wrote:
Ashe has one of the worst laning phases.You cant poke people without pushing creeps and you lose most of trades against other champions.
She also have no escape mechanism like graves ez and that makes her very weak against assasin champions.She isnt late game king like vayne kog aswell.
I dont see any reason to pick her instead of another ad carry lol. Ashe is a monster late game against the right teams. She doesn't have vayne's damage, but arrow is unbelievably strong, and permanent slows can wreck anyone without a gap closer.
doesnt everyone have a gap closer nowadays
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On February 28 2013 11:10 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 10:34 triangle wrote:On February 28 2013 09:53 Silentenigma wrote:
Ashe has one of the worst laning phases.You cant poke people without pushing creeps and you lose most of trades against other champions.
She also have no escape mechanism like graves ez and that makes her very weak against assasin champions.She isnt late game king like vayne kog aswell.
I dont see any reason to pick her instead of another ad carry lol. Ashe is a monster late game against the right teams. She doesn't have vayne's damage, but arrow is unbelievably strong, and permanent slows can wreck anyone without a gap closer. doesnt everyone have a gap closer nowadays
I feel that she can't deal with anyone with spammable gap closers; otherwise, she is retardedly strong.
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On February 28 2013 11:10 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 10:34 triangle wrote:On February 28 2013 09:53 Silentenigma wrote:
Ashe has one of the worst laning phases.You cant poke people without pushing creeps and you lose most of trades against other champions.
She also have no escape mechanism like graves ez and that makes her very weak against assasin champions.She isnt late game king like vayne kog aswell.
I dont see any reason to pick her instead of another ad carry lol. Ashe is a monster late game against the right teams. She doesn't have vayne's damage, but arrow is unbelievably strong, and permanent slows can wreck anyone without a gap closer. doesnt everyone have a gap closer nowadays
Once it's on CD you don't have a gap closer anymore.
(Doesn't work too well against guys like Xin or Jax who like to stack CDR or just plain Diana/Kha'Zix/Zed.)
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I've been playing Ashe in ranked with reasonable success, I copied genjas build with muramana over PD/shiv (All other items are standard) is this still ok? Her base as scales so well that I honestly don't feel any problems kiting late game.
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I find Muramana pretty god-awful when paired with Genja's item set and Genja's that builds need more AS and/or CDR to actually use Muramana correctly. I'd much rather copy Sneaky's builds. Shiv is just SO GOOD on Ashe.
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On August 04 2013 01:32 sylverfyre wrote:
I find Muramana pretty god-awful when paired with Genja's item set and Genja's that builds need more AS and/or CDR to actually use Muramana correctly. I'd much rather copy Sneaky's builds. Shiv is just SO GOOD on Ashe.
Wait, what's Sneaky's builds? And has anyone seen the supposed "Asian Meta Ashe" where you build Brutalizer or something for a Black Cleaver?
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What about cool down blue ashe build?
SotEL, Black Cleaver, CDR boots, and Muramana.
Spam 2.4 second volleys all damn day for the seige comp.
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EPT
