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On February 17 2012 10:32 Shiv. wrote:
I played him for the first time today, or well, for the first time since his remake. I was playing with some RL friends who're not 30 yet and while I obviously had rune&mastery advantage and was a better player by a fair margin, I had no problems playing a 1v2 lane whatsoever. Holy lord, is he retartedly strong or what? I was facing a Talon/Kayle top and had no problems straight up fighting them 1v2 from level 5 onwards. Granted, I used Feint to negate most of Talon's Rake harass and Q'd him in the face every time it was off CD, but that shouldn't be possible. I felt pretty allmighty, went HoG->Wit's->Phage->Aegis and ended the game right there. Every gank bot turned into a 3v3 with Shen generally bringing more to the table then their jungler, every fight was easily won because of the retarted amounts of AoE CC the kid has.
Is it just me being hyped after bashing some bads or is he so strong that it's very likely Riot's gonna nerf him next patch?
He's abusive in lane against champs with short ranged harass. but I don't think he's all that broken in lane. He counters a lot of top laners but he gets countered by a fair number of common tops (Rumble, Kennen, Vlad, Ryze) and tons of uncommon ones (Mundo, most AD carries).
The real reason he's busted right now is there isn't really a counter to his split push when Shen's team is competent. He had this ability before, but was gimped by energy issues and mediocre at best laning phase. He'll unbalance the game at a high level because of his split push forcing bad engages, he unbalances low elo because people don't know how to deal with his ult saving people from sure fire kills, which frustrates low elo players into banning him, also low elo hasn't figured out how to counter pick him in lane, so he's simply perma ban until counters become popularized.
The real problem here is that I don't know how riot can nerf him without ruining him. If they take away his damage. he can't lane top anymore and his jungle is worse, if they nerf the global element to his ult (which is what I think will happen) then alot of Shen players are going to be pissed because that's kind of his trademark. There's no easy solution here that balances him for all skill levels.
Even odds they nerf him and he ends up in a worse place then before the buffs.
D:
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You were not kidding about Triforce Shen
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I feel bad everytime I play shen. It feels almost not fair...
The last game I played against this Renekton I hit level 11 before he hit level 7. I don't think I have ever seen anyone get pooped on so hard... I didn't even think it was possible.
o.o
Granted, I am at an ELO where I carry pretty hard with everything (As it turns out last hitting is hard or something), but that just felt so abusive. You want to last hit? QW->auto (you can get three ki's from one W) while just spamming Q and you chunk people pretty damn hard. He so strong in lane.
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On February 17 2012 17:13 iCanada wrote:
The last game I played against this Renekton I hit level 11 before he hit level 7. I don't think I have ever seen anyone get pooped on so hard... I didn't even think it was possible.
You should start playing Spartans then.
On another note, Triforce Shen es op :p
My preferred build atm :
Boots-3 or Armor-5
HoG
Phage
Mercs
Wits
Triforce
Warmog
And this taunt seriously. 1.5s AoE stun giving you energy back :D
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On February 17 2012 16:05 Lancer723 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 10:32 Shiv. wrote:
I played him for the first time today, or well, for the first time since his remake. I was playing with some RL friends who're not 30 yet and while I obviously had rune&mastery advantage and was a better player by a fair margin, I had no problems playing a 1v2 lane whatsoever. Holy lord, is he retartedly strong or what? I was facing a Talon/Kayle top and had no problems straight up fighting them 1v2 from level 5 onwards. Granted, I used Feint to negate most of Talon's Rake harass and Q'd him in the face every time it was off CD, but that shouldn't be possible. I felt pretty allmighty, went HoG->Wit's->Phage->Aegis and ended the game right there. Every gank bot turned into a 3v3 with Shen generally bringing more to the table then their jungler, every fight was easily won because of the retarted amounts of AoE CC the kid has.
Is it just me being hyped after bashing some bads or is he so strong that it's very likely Riot's gonna nerf him next patch? He's abusive in lane against champs with short ranged harass. but I don't think he's all that broken in lane. He counters a lot of top laners but he gets countered by a fair number of common tops (Rumble, Kennen, Vlad, Ryze) and tons of uncommon ones (Mundo, most AD carries). The real reason he's busted right now is there isn't really a counter to his split push when Shen's team is competent. He had this ability before, but was gimped by energy issues and mediocre at best laning phase. He'll unbalance the game at a high level because of his split push forcing bad engages, he unbalances low elo because people don't know how to deal with his ult saving people from sure fire kills, which frustrates low elo players into banning him, also low elo hasn't figured out how to counter pick him in lane, so he's simply perma ban until counters become popularized. The real problem here is that I don't know how riot can nerf him without ruining him. If they take away his damage. he can't lane top anymore and his jungle is worse, if they nerf the global element to his ult (which is what I think will happen) then alot of Shen players are going to be pissed because that's kind of his trademark. There's no easy solution here that balances him for all skill levels. Even odds they nerf him and he ends up in a worse place then before the buffs. D:
How the heck does Vlad counter shen? Vlad doesn't counter anybody. He can be a soft counter to laners that just want to sit and farm, but he's not a counter to anyone -.-;
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On February 17 2012 17:32 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 16:05 Lancer723 wrote:On February 17 2012 10:32 Shiv. wrote:
I played him for the first time today, or well, for the first time since his remake. I was playing with some RL friends who're not 30 yet and while I obviously had rune&mastery advantage and was a better player by a fair margin, I had no problems playing a 1v2 lane whatsoever. Holy lord, is he retartedly strong or what? I was facing a Talon/Kayle top and had no problems straight up fighting them 1v2 from level 5 onwards. Granted, I used Feint to negate most of Talon's Rake harass and Q'd him in the face every time it was off CD, but that shouldn't be possible. I felt pretty allmighty, went HoG->Wit's->Phage->Aegis and ended the game right there. Every gank bot turned into a 3v3 with Shen generally bringing more to the table then their jungler, every fight was easily won because of the retarted amounts of AoE CC the kid has.
Is it just me being hyped after bashing some bads or is he so strong that it's very likely Riot's gonna nerf him next patch? He's abusive in lane against champs with short ranged harass. but I don't think he's all that broken in lane. He counters a lot of top laners but he gets countered by a fair number of common tops (Rumble, Kennen, Vlad, Ryze) and tons of uncommon ones (Mundo, most AD carries). The real reason he's busted right now is there isn't really a counter to his split push when Shen's team is competent. He had this ability before, but was gimped by energy issues and mediocre at best laning phase. He'll unbalance the game at a high level because of his split push forcing bad engages, he unbalances low elo because people don't know how to deal with his ult saving people from sure fire kills, which frustrates low elo players into banning him, also low elo hasn't figured out how to counter pick him in lane, so he's simply perma ban until counters become popularized. The real problem here is that I don't know how riot can nerf him without ruining him. If they take away his damage. he can't lane top anymore and his jungle is worse, if they nerf the global element to his ult (which is what I think will happen) then alot of Shen players are going to be pissed because that's kind of his trademark. There's no easy solution here that balances him for all skill levels. Even odds they nerf him and he ends up in a worse place then before the buffs. D: How the heck does Vlad counter shen? Vlad doesn't counter anybody. He can be a soft counter to laners that just want to sit and farm, but he's not a counter to anyone -.-;
It not necessarily a hard counter, but realistically how Shen gonna zone you when you out range him? As Vlad you can still get farms against Shen Safely and can land harrass basically for free unless you screw up your ranges. I think with Q Shen prolly can stay sustained because vlad doesn't really have killing power; It is a counter in the sense that realistically it is a free farm but Vlad obviously scales much harder into the late game being a carry rather thans a tank.
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On February 17 2012 17:59 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 17:32 Ryuu314 wrote:On February 17 2012 16:05 Lancer723 wrote:On February 17 2012 10:32 Shiv. wrote:
I played him for the first time today, or well, for the first time since his remake. I was playing with some RL friends who're not 30 yet and while I obviously had rune&mastery advantage and was a better player by a fair margin, I had no problems playing a 1v2 lane whatsoever. Holy lord, is he retartedly strong or what? I was facing a Talon/Kayle top and had no problems straight up fighting them 1v2 from level 5 onwards. Granted, I used Feint to negate most of Talon's Rake harass and Q'd him in the face every time it was off CD, but that shouldn't be possible. I felt pretty allmighty, went HoG->Wit's->Phage->Aegis and ended the game right there. Every gank bot turned into a 3v3 with Shen generally bringing more to the table then their jungler, every fight was easily won because of the retarted amounts of AoE CC the kid has.
Is it just me being hyped after bashing some bads or is he so strong that it's very likely Riot's gonna nerf him next patch? He's abusive in lane against champs with short ranged harass. but I don't think he's all that broken in lane. He counters a lot of top laners but he gets countered by a fair number of common tops (Rumble, Kennen, Vlad, Ryze) and tons of uncommon ones (Mundo, most AD carries). The real reason he's busted right now is there isn't really a counter to his split push when Shen's team is competent. He had this ability before, but was gimped by energy issues and mediocre at best laning phase. He'll unbalance the game at a high level because of his split push forcing bad engages, he unbalances low elo because people don't know how to deal with his ult saving people from sure fire kills, which frustrates low elo players into banning him, also low elo hasn't figured out how to counter pick him in lane, so he's simply perma ban until counters become popularized. The real problem here is that I don't know how riot can nerf him without ruining him. If they take away his damage. he can't lane top anymore and his jungle is worse, if they nerf the global element to his ult (which is what I think will happen) then alot of Shen players are going to be pissed because that's kind of his trademark. There's no easy solution here that balances him for all skill levels. Even odds they nerf him and he ends up in a worse place then before the buffs. D: How the heck does Vlad counter shen? Vlad doesn't counter anybody. He can be a soft counter to laners that just want to sit and farm, but he's not a counter to anyone -.-; It not necessarily a hard counter, but realistically how Shen gonna zone you when you out range him? As Vlad you can still get farms against Shen Safely and can land harrass basically for free unless you screw up your ranges. I think with Q Shen prolly can stay sustained because vlad doesn't really have killing power; It is a counter in the sense that realistically it is a free farm but Vlad obviously scales much harder into the late game being a carry rather thans a tank.
...by walking between your creeps and him once they took aggro. Then you lasthit with melee attacks and Q in Vlads face every time it's up. What's he gonna do? Q you back at 1/5th the CD? =P
btw, for starting items:
cloth+5 vs AD
boots+3 vs skill shot based AP (e.g. Ahri)
nmm+2 vs other APs
Like, vs a Rumble e.g. you're better off with the nmm instead of boots imoimo.
If you want to be a real douche you can just pretend being an Irelia. nmm+2 -> boots+nmm -> Wits/Mercs/Phage. While HoG is stronk a lot of the time I rather get my core of Wits/Mercs/Phage and continue with Giants Belt -> Chainmail -> Triforce -> Randatmogs.
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IIRC I saw Loci playing some old Shen vs Vayne top, and got dumped on because her autos outranged his Q.. Seems like a solid way to go about beating him.
As for elementz build... it just really doesn't sound too good. In teamfights you don't have the energy to be spamming vorpal to get slows off, so rylai's doesn't seem that great. I have no idea why you wouldn't make some kind of AS core on him (wits being the fairly obvious choice).
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Yeah, I tried the Elementz build last night in some normals. I guess if you get fed, it's nice... but just with farm and what not you're sacrificing all that early game power for only semi decent improvements later. I dunno. Plus, it's really impractical to wait for that kind of money and items if you're jungling.
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played some ranked for the first time in a week, everyone tells me to ban shen..
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United States37500 Posts
Played vs a Ghost/Ignite Xin just now. We both opened Cloth +5 and it was pretty stalemate early. I could harass him but he would heal it off with Passive + pots.
I died around level 5 because he initiated on me once, I dashed away but stuck around lane. I didn't let my energy recover enough before he auto'd creeps with W and EQ me again and Ignite for the kill. Using Dash as a retreat mechanism hurts a lot.
At worst, he was 60-70 creeps ahead of me but ended the game with a win with 2/2/18 and behind 10 creeps on Xin (he was 230 and his team's high).
Next time vs Cloth Xin, I'll probably just farm fest it. Shen feels more sustain vs Xin's burst when it comes to 1v1. He's almost unharassable after he comes back with Wriggle's. But team fights, it doesn't compare.
Went Tabi, Wriggle's, HoG, WE. He went Wriggles, Merc, Belt, Mallet. Felt really squishy with just HoG as only HP item. Phage before WE might have been better.
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Having tried it a couple times, I don't feel like jungling Shen is a good idea. I feel like he's pretty weak early game and you never really get enough CS to hit a point where you can 1v1 people effectively.
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i think the map awareness and presence that you have jungling combined with his ult allows you to have pretty much the most impact on the game possible in lol.
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Playing around 1400 shen vs irelia isnt even funny so bad for irelia. Spam Q at her non stop and if she comes in to cs you dash and beat on her and she just cant win those exchanges.
She cant even cs anymore before lvl 6 most of the time and end up leaving for jungle or other lanes.
Do people have any tips for helping to learn map awareness? Im pretty terrible at keeping my eye on the map while harassing and end up missing ults.
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On February 18 2012 10:36 Gorsameth wrote:
Playing around 1400 shen vs irelia isnt even funny so bad for irelia. Spam Q at her non stop and if she comes in to cs you dash and beat on her and she just cant win those exchanges.
She cant even cs anymore before lvl 6 most of the time and end up leaving for jungle or other lanes.
Do people have any tips for helping to learn map awareness? Im pretty terrible at keeping my eye on the map while harassing and end up missing ults.
Go play some ZvP in Broodwar.
You have two choices, get the better map awareness, or die horribly.
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On February 18 2012 10:36 Gorsameth wrote:
Playing around 1400 shen vs irelia isnt even funny so bad for irelia. Spam Q at her non stop and if she comes in to cs you dash and beat on her and she just cant win those exchanges.
She cant even cs anymore before lvl 6 most of the time and end up leaving for jungle or other lanes.
Do people have any tips for helping to learn map awareness? Im pretty terrible at keeping my eye on the map while harassing and end up missing ults.
quoting from one of the older GD threads.
Download ICCUP. Play Zerg. Make a game titled "D- ZvP no dts." Repeat.
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On February 18 2012 08:30 NeoIllusions wrote:
Played vs a Ghost/Ignite Xin just now. We both opened Cloth +5 and it was pretty stalemate early. I could harass him but he would heal it off with Passive + pots.
I died around level 5 because he initiated on me once, I dashed away but stuck around lane. I didn't let my energy recover enough before he auto'd creeps with W and EQ me again and Ignite for the kill. Using Dash as a retreat mechanism hurts a lot.
At worst, he was 60-70 creeps ahead of me but ended the game with a win with 2/2/18 and behind 10 creeps on Xin (he was 230 and his team's high).
Next time vs Cloth Xin, I'll probably just farm fest it. Shen feels more sustain vs Xin's burst when it comes to 1v1. He's almost unharassable after he comes back with Wriggle's. But team fights, it doesn't compare.
Went Tabi, Wriggle's, HoG, WE. He went Wriggles, Merc, Belt, Mallet. Felt really squishy with just HoG as only HP item. Phage before WE might have been better.
yea, I've been liking like, hog, recurve, phage after wriggles if you need it, then finishing wit's after the phage. speeds up your HP pool by 950 gold, which is noticeable.
WW beats shen in lane, for sure. Played it twice last night and it's just not fair, WW with wriggle's + wit's just stands there and beats your face in. Xin should be a losing matchup Neo, but yea, if you can make it a straight farm fest, w/e, shen late game >> xin late game.
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I've tried AS reds + quints and mpen red + MS quints. I feel better with the AS because if they decide to stay & fight in early levels, you have more ki strikes and so more shield and more vorpal blade. It's also great with wits end. I also pick the AS and the armpen in the offense tree so I do a bit more damage during those trade, it seemed better than the CDR/magic pen.
The real problem is that shen is too strong so it's hard to discern which build is optimal.
Then the early giant belt is really nice in lane because it gives a nice burst to your damage but the transition to midgame is less good than with what Mogwai said.
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What do you open with for jungle shen? cloth5 or is it doable and better to go vamp/boots/sword/blade/shield?
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Ruby crystal like a boss.
Alternatively doran's shield is good too if you're pussy, you don't need vamp scepter because that puts you over the top on sustain and what shen needs in the jungle is a bit more damage and clear speed.
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EPT
