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[Champion] Twisted Fate - Page 2

Forum Index > LoL Strategy
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Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
November 14 2010 16:06 GMT
#21
I guess Randuins + Bluepot can be substituted for Frozen Brain.
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
STS17
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1817 Posts
November 14 2010 16:20 GMT
#22
On November 14 2010 19:16 Odds wrote:
I've been building Guinsoos -> Malady -> banshees/bloodrazor (order dependent on situation) to try to squeeze as much as possible out of both TF's E and to maximize Q damage for pokes. Is this terribad?

If yes: please explain why. The aforementioned guide does not mention Guinsoo's - which intuitively to me seems like a core item for TF.


Hybrid twisted Fate is not bad at all, you do decent sustained damage and have a spammable poke spell which is also fairly potent. However, as you don't gain additional benefits for hybridization (like akali or kayle for example) it is generally better to focus on one over the other.
Platinum Level Terran - Take my advice from that perspective
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
November 14 2010 17:46 GMT
#23
On November 15 2010 01:06 Tooplark wrote:
I guess Randuins + Bluepot can be substituted for Frozen Brain.

oh i know nothing about tank tf. :O
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
Odds
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada1188 Posts
November 14 2010 19:53 GMT
#24
On November 15 2010 01:20 STS17 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2010 19:16 Odds wrote:
I've been building Guinsoos -> Malady -> banshees/bloodrazor (order dependent on situation) to try to squeeze as much as possible out of both TF's E and to maximize Q damage for pokes. Is this terribad?

If yes: please explain why. The aforementioned guide does not mention Guinsoo's - which intuitively to me seems like a core item for TF.


Hybrid twisted Fate is not bad at all, you do decent sustained damage and have a spammable poke spell which is also fairly potent. However, as you don't gain additional benefits for hybridization (like akali or kayle for example) it is generally better to focus on one over the other.

You mean additional benefits like Guinsoos which increases damage, attack speed, poke power, and passive damage for Stack Deck? =P

But yeah, I see what you are saying.

If I continue using this build, though, is Nashor's Tooth a logical continuation out of Malady, being cheaper than bloodrazor? Or should I just go straight for the DPS MOFUCKIN' DAMAGE?
Odds.633, AM. Plat level currently. Would love more practice partners, add me, let's play!
STS17
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1817 Posts
November 14 2010 20:39 GMT
#25
On November 15 2010 04:53 Odds wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2010 01:20 STS17 wrote:
On November 14 2010 19:16 Odds wrote:
I've been building Guinsoos -> Malady -> banshees/bloodrazor (order dependent on situation) to try to squeeze as much as possible out of both TF's E and to maximize Q damage for pokes. Is this terribad?

If yes: please explain why. The aforementioned guide does not mention Guinsoo's - which intuitively to me seems like a core item for TF.


Hybrid twisted Fate is not bad at all, you do decent sustained damage and have a spammable poke spell which is also fairly potent. However, as you don't gain additional benefits for hybridization (like akali or kayle for example) it is generally better to focus on one over the other.

You mean additional benefits like Guinsoos which increases damage, attack speed, poke power, and passive damage for Stack Deck? =P

But yeah, I see what you are saying.

If I continue using this build, though, is Nashor's Tooth a logical continuation out of Malady, being cheaper than bloodrazor? Or should I just go straight for the DPS MOFUCKIN' DAMAGE?


Not really a definitive answer to that, if you are raping face then get the BR to extend your advantage (should be able to afford it) but keep in mind your pushing abilities will suffer since only the ASPD really helps downing towers.

HGB is also decent because it gives you more of what you want while giving you survivability in the form of lifesteal and spell vamp (spell vamp works on magic damage from Malady SotD Wit's End and BR) whereas if you are short on funds SotD and Wit's End are both situationally useful and cheap.

Nashor's Tooth is a good item to get if you don't think you will be able to afford BR in a timely fashion as well because you can benefit from all the stats on it.
Platinum Level Terran - Take my advice from that perspective
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
December 12 2010 17:52 GMT
#26
W's on-hit effects get better as you level up W. DPS TF 100% wants R > E > W > Q (with W at level 1), don't even take Q until you have no choice. 2 second stun is a huge difference from 1 second stun.

I feel like AP TF might want R > Q > W > E, but I'm not sure ... all four skills are good for AP TF.

I just won a 4v5 because TF solo pushing is OP. Zerker greaves + Bloodthirster (I got IE but I wasn't really thinking that it'd come down to split pushing like this at the time) + sword of the divine and people at my level aren't good enough to deal with a solopush. Got an inhib turret down pretty early and we were in control the rest of the game ... I don't think they even crossed the river after I returned with my ult and got the inhib (they got one of our inhibs just before, but stayed too long and we aced them after I bluepilled back).

Also, I managed to ult out of their base after killing an inhib, and I think I must've died as I was teleporting, because when I re-center my screen I see my guardian angel activating in my base lol. Didn't know that was possible.

Also I think if you're going to troll with tank TF you need locket because locket is imba.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
December 12 2010 18:10 GMT
#27
On December 13 2010 02:52 crate wrote:
W's on-hit effects get better as you level up W. DPS TF 100% wants R > E > W > Q (with W at level 1), don't even take Q until you have no choice. 2 second stun is a huge difference from 1 second stun.

I feel like AP TF might want R > Q > W > E, but I'm not sure ... all four skills are good for AP TF.

I just won a 4v5 because TF solo pushing is OP. Zerker greaves + Bloodthirster (I got IE but I wasn't really thinking that it'd come down to split pushing like this at the time) + sword of the divine and people at my level aren't good enough to deal with a solopush. Got an inhib turret down pretty early and we were in control the rest of the game ... I don't think they even crossed the river after I returned with my ult and got the inhib (they got one of our inhibs just before, but stayed too long and we aced them after I bluepilled back).

Also, I managed to ult out of their base after killing an inhib, and I think I must've died as I was teleporting, because when I re-center my screen I see my guardian angel activating in my base lol. Didn't know that was possible.

Also I think if you're going to troll with tank TF you need locket because locket is imba.


on ap tf i do a wonky little thing that i also do with panth in that i go q,w,e (or w at lvl 1 if we teamfight), then max q, get a 2nd or 3rd lvl of w (depending on how many merc treads are out on the ppl ur aiming to kill) then max e then max w, ofc getting r whenever possible.
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
STS17
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1817 Posts
December 12 2010 20:30 GMT
#28
AP TF maxes Q first almost 100% of the time. Simply put, the largest advantage AP Fate has over DPS Fate is range, so it only makes sense to capitalize on that. R>Q>W>E (W at level 1, first rank of E at 3 or 4, really comes down to preference)

You don't want to harass with Q until level 4 or 5 because until then its damage:mana ratio isn't too great especially considering your mana pool.

In Lane:
Laning AP Fate and DPS Fate are basically identical until you begin getting AP, last hit with blue card and/or E proc - using both to harass and zone your opponent when he tries to farm. Once you hit level 4-5 (and again when you begin accruing AP) you can harass with Q as well, abusing its range to make your opponent last hitting under his tower as difficult as possible.

At 6 you should b to buy and look for a gank opportunity, if none presents itself then just return to lane, if you doubt there will be a need to use it in the near future, ult back to lane to minimize downtime and resume pressuring your opponent (possibly now with an item advantage) you should be 1-2 levels ahead of your opponent at this point against quite a few lanes.

In Teamfights:
Poke with Q all day every day (presuming you have the mana supply - you want to save some for the fight). If your opponents are getting BVs, I believe it is still possible to pop it with your ult so it's a good idea to do this before your team initiates to prevent them from absorbing a rocket grab or mummy ult or what-have-you.

Once the fight actually begins, you want to spam red card over gold, barring facing champs with channel ults (kat / galio etc) or someone who "needs" to be stunlocked (fed carry). Reason being Red simply does more damage (and it's AoE) then gold and the slow prevents their team from repositioning properly. Keep spamming those Qs trying to hit as many as possible.
Platinum Level Terran - Take my advice from that perspective
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
December 12 2010 21:17 GMT
#29
As in the AP vs AD, AP is way safer in teamfights, and fits in poke setups as well AP setup also bring towers down fast without being really fucking fed (all he needs is lichbane + bluepot for wrecking towers)
Lategame AP tf is also VERY underrated since he can basically chop you up for 1k damage and run away to do the same 3 seconds later (if your E is up in time that is).

AD just has a stupid amount of damage (especially lategame where it becomes completely riddicolous) and will almost allways be in range to blow someone up with goldcard.
In the woods, there lurks..
STS17
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1817 Posts
December 12 2010 21:23 GMT
#30
On December 13 2010 06:17 Iplaythings wrote:
As in the AP vs AD, AP is way safer in teamfights, and fits in poke setups as well AP setup also bring towers down fast without being really fucking fed (all he needs is lichbane + bluepot for wrecking towers)
Lategame AP tf is also VERY underrated since he can basically chop you up for 1k damage and run away to do the same 3 seconds later (if your E is up in time that is).

AD just has a stupid amount of damage (especially lategame where it becomes completely riddicolous) and will almost allways be in range to blow someone up with goldcard.


.4 AP added to damage against towers FTW!

Platinum Level Terran - Take my advice from that perspective
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
December 13 2010 03:12 GMT
#31
On November 15 2010 05:39 STS17 wrote:

HGB is also decent because it gives you more of what you want while giving you survivability in the form of lifesteal and spell vamp (spell vamp works on magic damage from Malady SotD Wit's End and BR) whereas if you are short on funds SotD and Wit's End are both situationally useful and cheap.


I realize it's been a month, but I just tested this and Spell Vamp does not work on any of these effects, nor the active from HGB or DFG. It also doesn't work on Akali's Discipline of Force.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Pigsquirrel
Profile Joined August 2009
United States615 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-13 04:18:06
December 13 2010 04:17 GMT
#32
Is bloodthirster a good damage item? Fairly cheap and builds smoother than IE.
EDIT: Plus lifesteal seems necessary on anybody who is going to be inside autoattack range of anything. If not BT, then what lifesteal item?
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-13 05:58:18
December 13 2010 05:57 GMT
#33
it's basically a better sword of the occult imo. If you stay alive, it gets stronger, if you die your dps goes pbtttttttttth.

On a hero where it makes sense to just stack bf swords at a certain point, it's what you should be upgrading into
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
December 13 2010 08:15 GMT
#34
Bloodthirster is pretty good on TF imo because you can solopush to fill it up then ult in to teamfights if you have to. #1 backdoor damage item too. IE tends to work better if you're actually hitting champs though, especially with green pot, because the added crit/crit damage is big.

If you're getting lifesteal Bloodthirster is obviously good for that too, but I've never really felt a pressing need for lifesteal as TF personally.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
Pigsquirrel
Profile Joined August 2009
United States615 Posts
December 13 2010 12:52 GMT
#35
I think lifesteal is a necessity on anybody who isn't just standing out of range sending in skillshots (hello lux/ez). Without any lifesteal, if I sell Doran's, I can solo push a lane, pull minion aggro from a few waves of minions, and wind up down a fair percentage even lategame. What about Starks as a speed item and with a damage item of your choice? Helps with BDs and aurabitchin' is never a bad thing.
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-13 14:41:04
December 13 2010 14:40 GMT
#36
A solo pusher doesn't really want Stark's. After all he SOLO pushes. You can just stay at Recurve + Scepter or build something from either of those. Finishing Stark's mostly gives you the aura, so it's not as important if you are always doing your own thing.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
LOLMARINE
Profile Joined December 2009
United States28 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-14 04:11:35
December 14 2010 04:11 GMT
#37
I always go with this hybrid build, i find that it lets me burst for a good deal of damage and have something to follow up the burst or backdoor if it comes down to that.

Items
1. sheen (start the game with a sapphire crystal and 2 hp pots)
2. Beserker Greaves (or Sorcerer's Shoes)
3. Guinsoo's rageblade
4.Sheen into Lich Bane
5. Nashor's tooth
6. Either Rylai's Scepter or Zhonya's Ring depending on how your game's going
7. Bloodthirster

Mejai's Soulstealer if your game is going really really well.

Masteries: 9/0/21

Runes
Magic Pen Quints (can be replaced with flat health)
Magic Pen Marks
CDR Glyphs
Attack Speed Seals

Summoner Spells
Flash and Exhaust
I find flash to be absolutely necessary on an uber squishy champ like TF, the other spell can be whatever you see fit (preferably exhaust/ignite/ghost)

Skills
R>Q>E>W
Put 1 into W at the very beginning of the game, then proceed to put 1 in Q every time you can (except when you can level up your R of course), then max out E, and then W

Hope this helped somebody
Chicks dig it
stet_tcl
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Greece319 Posts
December 19 2010 11:09 GMT
#38
What are people's opinions on going Sheen -> Tear -> Archangel's -> Manamune and following with Guinsoo's/Nashor's/Leechbane/survivability...

Apart from the obvious fact that tear will not have any instant bonuses meaning a weaker early-mid game it feels that this build is more cost effective than other hybrid builds.

Is there something I'm missing?

Also assuming this is viable should one get Manamune before Archangel's since it lets you charge your tear faster?
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
December 19 2010 12:08 GMT
#39
I don't see why you'd get Tear because I don't have mana problems as TF (the only way you can really run out is if you use Wild Cards a lot anyway). Run mp5pl runes if you really have problems. TF only has about 900 mana at level 18, so AA + Manamune gets him to ~2650 -> AA gives 125 AP and Manamune gives 73 AD for 5000 gold (these numbers go up a bit if you get more mana, like from Sheen, but I don't see how it's even possible to spend 2600 mana on TF usefully so any mana you get at this point is wasted gold to begin with). Gunblades give similar AD/AP per gold spent (60 AD and 75 AP for 3625), and on top of that come with lifesteal, spellvamp, and an active, and you only lose out on max mana and mana regen that you shouldn't need.

(Zhonya's beats out Archangel's for AP anyway. 120 + 25% AP for 3460 from Zhonya's, compared to 125 for 2900 from AA. Even if Zhonya's is your only source of AP you get slightly more AP per gold, plus you get a really nice active ... and if you're getting Rageblade there's really no contest).

Rageblade is good though, since Wild Cards is almost enough to keep it stacked on its own and it's disgustingly efficient.

I think I'd rather go Rageblade + Gunblade if you want hybrid, it's more efficient and it kicks in faster. From there add in Lichbane or attack speed (Malady/SotD perhaps) probably.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
Pigsquirrel
Profile Joined August 2009
United States615 Posts
December 19 2010 16:50 GMT
#40
Just owned a game as DPS TF.
My build:
Arpen marks
Dodge yellows
CDR/lvl blues
Arpen quints

Open Doran's blade
Rush malady
Zerks
BT
LW
SotD
Infinity

New LW worked WONDERS on TF.
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