On February 02 2011 01:39 locodoco wrote: teemo has been more than viable since forever idk why riot is stacking buffs on him,one day some1's gonna show the community the viability of teemo than he becomes fotm than teemo gonna get put in a worse spot that he was before :S
Arguably one of the cutest champs, Teemo is now actually useful!
I play him Hybrid / Aurawhore, depending on my mood.
Hybrid:
Runes: Red Mpen (I run 8 Mpen + 1 Arpen) OR Red Aspd Yellow Armour/Dodge Blue Flat MR / MR/lvl ??? Not sure yet for quints, used to be HP but not sure how new patch will change things
Items: Doran's Blade x 2-3 , Boots 2, Malady, defensive item (optional, usually Banshee's / Randuin's / Thornmail), Guinsoo's Rageblade (optional) , Phage->Mallet/Revolver, Madred's Bloodrazor (bring forward the MBR if you know you'll need it ASAP)
Playstyle: Teemo's actually all about playstyle. I'm not really sure how to put it into words, but the motto generally is this: Be a dick. Ask me more.
I usually take solo top. From Level 1-2, focus more on last hitting and only sneak in a few attacks on the enemy every now and then. At level 3 you're almost guaranteed to have the better poke and will always win the harass war unless your enemy is really super pro or playing Vlad or some other mega healer. (even Vlad fails at Level 3) Still, remember to last hit and don't get too carried away with harassing. The ideal situation is you hit Level 6 with ~1250g, recall and pick up 2x D-blade, Boots 1, and a HP pot. Waiting till you hit 6 before you B lets you spawn additional mushrooms while making the fountain trip. Once you return, place the mushrooms wherever you think the enemy jungler might come from and in your retreat path. This changes when you're on Blue/Purple team. Try to keep the enemy solo low HP. This keeps him scared and more importantly functions as insurance against an enemy jungler gank, since you can revenge kill the enemy solo should shit hit the fan. Continue farming, get Boots 2 then Malady parts etc etc, keep mushrooming wherever. Mid-game soon rolls around. Usually the top turret is down by this time, so you're free to roam around and shroom up more important objectives such as Dragon/Baron. If you expect a teamfight to develop at location X (be it Baron/Dragon/bot turret) then you want to be ready way beforehand by planting shrooms in the general vicinity. As a rule of thumb, always put shrooms in Brush when you can. It makes them way harder to destroy, even with Oracle's and as an additional benefit prevents your team's champs from losing vision of enemies in brush. If you have Guinsoo's Rageblade, always try to be at full stacks if you can help it. If you have red buff/Phage and are chasing someone with normal attack, try to Dart as late as possible for slightly higher damage from Malady debuff. Red buff on Teemo is pretty wicked.
Aurawhore:
Same runes/masteries/skills as ^
Summoner Spells: Ghost/Heal (I like this one), Ghost/Ignite, Ghost/Exhaust
Items: Doran's Shield, Boots 2, Aegis of the Legion, Stark's Fervor, Banshee's/Thornmail (depending on which you need), Phage, MBR
Playstyle: Aurawhore Teemo's actually the tankier of the two, used when you know Aegis/Stark's will help your team a lot or there's too much burst on enemy champs. General motto is slightly different: Be a tough dick. Ask me more.
*I'm not trying to be an ass but I'm really not sure how to express Teemo's playstyle in words. Teemo plays a lot different from the typical champ. I'd really hope that people ask more specifically if they wish to learn more.
*UPDATE*
The Rain Man got to 2402 Elo, USA rank 1. His Teemo build goes something like x/21/x with defensive runes, max E first, get Phage->Mallet and Madred's Bloodrazor. Not so different from the Hybrid build outlined above, except he doesn't go Malady and instead opts for faster MBR.
Also, the recent buff to Move Quick *finally* made it better than MF's passive. I used to advocate only 1 level of W, but I'm not sure if it's worth levelling now. I'm guessing not though, due to diminishing returns on movespeed. Also, Q levelled up hits pretty hard and the longer blind always helps.
A decent starting point to explain Teemo is that you should always be acting in a way which is both annoying to your opponent and advantageous to your team. Lay Mushroom traps with the new Noxious Trap charge mechanics so that your opponent can't push the tower they want to / retreat from a fight / chase you without dying. Get redbuff and just run around poking people to death. Blind the melee whenever it's up. Quote Teemo in all-chat after scoring kills. You are Captain Teemo, and you are on duty.
On November 04 2010 11:33 Niton wrote: A decent starting point to explain Teemo is that you should always be acting in a way which is both annoying to your opponent and advantageous to your team. Lay Mushroom traps with the new Noxious Trap charge mechanics so that your opponent can't push the tower they want to / retreat from a fight / chase you without dying. Get redbuff and just run around poking people to death. Blind the melee whenever it's up. Quote Teemo in all-chat after scoring kills. You are Captain Teemo, and you are on duty.
It's key to this strat to piss off your friends in vent as well.
Do your best impression: captain teemo reporting for duty!
The best part about Teemo is that (if you read his background story) he is actually a half-retarded yordle assassin I also find he plays best when you attempt to mimic this.
You should also remember that W should be off in teamfights or when you think you will be attacked so that it isn't on cooldown when you need to escape. It's not exactly ground-breaking but I see so many players just keep it on then wonder why they died.
On November 04 2010 21:39 Jazriel wrote: "Hybrid" and "Aurawhore" sound like the dumbest Teemo builds I could imagine. Can someone please put up a real Teemo guide?
hybrid on teemo is suprisingly strong, try it.
Also, remember (everyone) to practice putting shrooms into movement patterns, you walking back and forth to determine wether you want a spotter shroom ( one which doesnt get blown up) or something you just wanna see and run awaaaaaaay, put it in a less likely movement pattern.
examples
You head bot towards dragon, if you want a spotter shroom you put in in the middle of the river, you want a boomer shroom put it near the ledges or at the dragon entrances because they are more likely to be stepped on.
note; spotter shrooms dont have a particularly large vision, but at dragon fx you can put it in a place where it spots dragon being attacked without it blowing up.
Also, DFG, HGB, Rageblade is one my favorite hybrid builds, try it out yo =) (it has riddicolous burst and some sustained damage as well, especially since the poison damage refreshes with a new damage tick every time you hit them
On November 04 2010 21:39 Jazriel wrote: "Hybrid" and "Aurawhore" sound like the dumbest Teemo builds I could imagine. Can someone please put up a real Teemo guide?
You'd be hardpressed to find a better Teemo player than me. (SO MUCH BRAG LOL)
Teemo is quickly becoming my favorite champ to annoy people with. Shroom farming and ambushes and just his general ability to kite people all day is just hilarious.
On November 04 2010 21:39 Jazriel wrote: "Hybrid" and "Aurawhore" sound like the dumbest Teemo builds I could imagine. Can someone please put up a real Teemo guide?
Jazriel #1 Teemo. I just use his Ashe build when I play teemo and it works! I won a game yesterday so it must be legit!
And yes, Hybrid build is good second choice. Teemo lays traps and kills towers. In team fights he's not so useful beyond blind, so play to the strengths.
On November 07 2010 05:14 Mogwai wrote: ok, so why the hell would you start the champion thread if you have essentially nothing to say?
I know that sounds harsh, but seriously, this is exactly what should not be in the first post of a Champion thread.
idk but u sound mad....have something to contribute?
If you're the original poster, it's on you to make your OP good. Why don't you mention what you should be doing early/mid/late game, how to effectively use mushrooms, etc.
On November 07 2010 05:14 Mogwai wrote: ok, so why the hell would you start the champion thread if you have essentially nothing to say?
I know that sounds harsh, but seriously, this is exactly what should not be in the first post of a Champion thread.
idk but u sound mad....have something to contribute?
If you're the original poster, it's on you to make your OP good. Why don't you mention what you should be doing early/mid/late game, how to effectively use mushrooms, etc.
Because what I have provided thus far should serve as sufficient starting point for anyone looking to get into playing Teemo?
I would answer your questions (and I should), but really, if I were to write out sections for those questions, it'd be unnecessarily long and in the grand scheme of things, not very useful. It's probably better to watch other Teemos play and practise a little on your own.
Thoughts on going QEE as opposed to EQE then? I like Q early because, with all that mana regen, I think it's better for harass, since it does more than poison would when you're level 1 and has more range.
I like ghost/teleport too, just because I like pushing towers/farming with teemo.
Teemo's E gives him a blood easy time farming - he's the easiest champion to last hit with, that I've played so far. His semi-carry potential is definitely there, though no outright [his passive, while a steroid, isn't really enough, imo] steroid rules him out from being a straight out hard carry.
I've been playing him: R>E>W>Q; Doran's Blade IE+Boots+Green Candy by 20mins. Snowball items++;
It's important to keep yourself alive, don't even show yourself until the fight's started. Keep yourself at the edge of the battle - ready to put additional space between yourself and anyone who doesn't like you at a moment's notice [leveling his W is important to make this easy].
Farming is stupid easy, you should be roaming mid/late game between the lanes to be farming as much as possible. If there's farm to be had, take it. Go via the jungle rather than river so you're killing mobs on the way.
On November 07 2010 18:28 DarthThienAn wrote: Thoughts on going QEE as opposed to EQE then? I like Q early because, with all that mana regen, I think it's better for harass, since it does more than poison would when you're level 1 and has more range.
I like ghost/teleport too, just because I like pushing towers/farming with teemo.
But I'm also a noob so ^^
Preference, really. E potentially more damage in a duo lane and can be spammed forever. Q actually has a cooldown. Doesn't make much difference tbh.
I've been playing 1/16/13 (exhaust, SoS, full armor/mres, full defensive mastery/harden skin, 2 in Vet's Scars, Spatial Accuracy, Good Hands, Meditation, Utility Mastery) and generally roflstomping lanes. Will post more later, though I feel there's plenty of room for improvement
In pubs, anyways, I've been running Teleport/Exhaust because 1. teleporting to invis shrooms = ninja teleport. Fuck Shunpo, you've got SHROOMPO. Plus it lets you blow all of your health/mana on harassment when you are going to go buy, come back to the lane, and knock your opponent right out of it (if not outright killing him) 2. Exhaust works nicely with blind to create something like an 8 second window where your opponent cannot hit anything with physical attacks. As you can imagine, this is a bit frustrating for him, makes you incredibly difficult to towerdive, and lets you get a lot of kills not otherwise possible (particularly before you get your phage) as well as a lot of escapes (exhaust stops em from breaking Move Quickly after they've blown their abilities).
Logic behind masteries/runes:
You are Teemo. In the lane, you should win just about every straight up fight/damage exchange unless you're against something stupid like Vlad- so you want to make a point of hitting your opponent with auto->Q->auto combo as often as possible and, in all likelihood trading blows. The defensive runes and masteries increase your survivability and staying power considerably, allowing you to do this to much greater effect. If your opponent gets too low, he is forced to retreat because he (rightly) fears your Exhaust.
I had been trying to run 9/21/0, but with my purely defensive runes I found that I just ran out of mana far too easily, particularly after I hit level 6. The addition of Meditation and the 30% longer blue/red buffs helps immensely with this issue, without actually affecting your survivability too badly. Any extra damage you take is offset by the extra Q's your enemy is taking to the face from the mana you're getting off of Meditation. 10% less time in death queue is fantastic too for any hero that's carrying Teleport.
I default to Blade, but I've had success starting with every Doran's item. If I am in a lane where I feel I will need to max Q first (for example, against Twitch), I've experimented with taking Doran's Ring first for the extra mana regen-- it helps more than you might expect. If I'm against something stupid like Vlad or in particular the FotM Pantheon I will sometimes take Shield and just hope to outfarm/survive his retarded laning ability and trust in my better scaling and play later in the game.
For an average game, i've been going Blade -> shoes -> blade -> Zerk's -> Phage -> Bloodrazor. I really like Malady, but its statistics just seem equivalent/inferior to a recurve bow + pickaxe, both of which are components to the highly superior Bloodrazor. If someone good has a solid argument for Malady, please let me know.
Mushrooms SPACEBOMBS are clustered typically in chokepoints around my lane/dragon. Put them slightly to the side because nobody walks in the middle of the pathways.
Most games: max E over Q. If your opponent doesn't have a real nuke that he can trade with you in lane/is a hard carry: Maxing Q first can be good imoimoimo Put 1 point in W at level 4, but leave it off unless you are expecting to make a kill/need to run away and your opponent has already blown his nukes. Have every entrance to your lane covered in shrooms as soon as possible. Pubs suck, so your safety is paramount. Have 1 shroom sitting just behind dragon so the enemies can't step on/counterward it.
EDIT: I have an idea. When I next get a chance (papers to write first hurdur), I'm going to try getting a Philo stone -> Nashor's Tooth -> Shurelya's to take massive map control and add a little bulk plus hitting CDR cap without the masteries and getting (hopefully) enough manaregen to spam 40% cdr shrooms SPACEBOMBS all over the goddamn place. Shurelya's should also have the perk of allowing you to get the hell away when your W is broken.
This will probably either suck horribly or be totally awesome. Considering that Teemo's laning power is heavily based on attrition as it is, this could be extremely entertaining.
EDIT EDIT: A friend tells me that Shurelya's only boosts teammates, not you. Confirm/deny? I can't test right now.
EDIT EDIT EDIT: Shurelya's boosts the holder. Also, this build works extremely well under the right circumstances. Getting a Phage before shurelya's is probably a better play, though
EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIThil stone was pretty cool story, but Catalyst is GODMODE
I've won 8 of my 9 last games as teemo, but they are still low tier bad games. I feel like the build could be vastly improved tweaked still but i'm almost certain I'm on the correct path here.
CURRENT BUILD:
Ghost/Teleport (I think this is perfect)
Solo top lane
Masteries: 0/17/13 (SoS, both dmg redux, 3 in vet's scars/ medi, utility mastery
runes: flat hp quints MPen reds mana/5/level yellows flat MRes blues
Skills: Max Q first. 1 point in W at level 4. Harass CONSTANTLY in lane. Zone almost any hero including bullshit like Gragas. Do not give a fuck about creep damage, you have 18 in def masteries and SoS and a mana crystal. get sorc boots before catalyst if you are not running low on hp/mana
-Sapph crystal, 2 hp pots -catalyst -Sorc boots -Malady -banshee's veil -phage -> Depending on type of resistance enemies get, either BT or BR
Yeah - I don't mind his billion posts because they bump the thread (allowing him to find it easily to post again :D) and more importantly they are actually relevant discussion and not just off-topic banter.
On Topic: I recently discovered Tank Teemo is impossible to pull off because the enemy team finds him to cute to kill.
Put one point in W at level 4 and never turn it on. Ever. Use it like you would Ghost, i.e. when they come to gank you eat all thier CC then W out of there - something you cant do if you are just running around with it on pre-gank. Other uses include temporary boosts to harass and escape before they can react (auto -> Q -> auto -> W -> back off is better then W -> auto -> Q -> auto -> backoff because if they do react in time to hit you you are still escaping with speed whereas getting slowed while you run can result in you eating more then one hit).
On December 12 2010 02:38 Iplaythings wrote: geez odds, quad posts
I see you know the edit button, see it
Yeah, it just seemed like a more efficient way to communicate that these were entirely different posts about entirely different builds. Also, I didn't want the thread to die. :[
On December 09 2010 21:13 Odds wrote: I've won 8 of my 9 last games as teemo, but they are still low tier bad games. I feel like the build could be vastly improved tweaked still but i'm almost certain I'm on the correct path here.
CURRENT BUILD:
Ghost/Teleport (I think this is perfect)
Solo top lane
Masteries: 0/17/13 (SoS, both dmg redux, 3 in vet's scars/ medi, utility mastery
runes: flat hp quints MPen reds mana/5/level yellows flat MRes blues
Skills: Max Q first. 1 point in W at level 4. Harass CONSTANTLY in lane. Zone almost any hero including bullshit like Gragas. Do not give a fuck about creep damage, you have 18 in def masteries and SoS and a mana crystal. get sorc boots before catalyst if you are not running low on hp/mana
-Sapph crystal, 2 hp pots -catalyst -Sorc boots -Malady -banshee's veil -phage -> Depending on type of resistance enemies get, either BT or BR
Request vouch from guitarsaurus
If you're running malady, you should be getting bloodrazors -- both always and first.
How come you get banshees so early? You won't be doing any damage x_x.
Also, I stopped getting phage recently because it doesn't build into anything that I'd really want endgame. The slow is pretty nice, but that's money that could be better spent elsewhere I think. Maybe not though.
The early banshees let me run in and do pretty significant DPS early on (because I had been winning the lane every time due to catalyst + imba teemo) with my malady, and also kite more effectively because 1 stray CC that could accidentally hit me, wouldn't completely screw me
I'm liking this build better atm:
Same pregame stuff -Start boots, HP pots, -Sorc Boots -Nashor's Tooth (CDR and mana regen to capitalize on shrooms early while they're still relevant, also adds significantly to DPS and Q/R/E power) -Bilgewater -> immediately Gunblade for the slow and more well-rounded damage type output- seems like about 50/50 phys/magical
After that, either LW or Madred's or possibly something else depending on situation
AP Teemo actually pretty decent but I just don't like playing AP chars as much as rightclickDPSers. Malady also favours autoattack more than it does AP. Wit's End is also a good consideration in certain matchups. (Secret tech vs mana-hungry-but-low-mana champs)
On December 12 2010 12:20 nyxnyxnyx wrote: AP Teemo actually pretty decent but I just don't like playing AP chars as much as rightclickDPSers. Malady also favours autoattack more than it does AP. Wit's End is also a good consideration in certain matchups. (Secret tech vs mana-hungry-but-low-mana champs)
On December 12 2010 12:20 nyxnyxnyx wrote: AP Teemo actually pretty decent but I just don't like playing AP chars as much as rightclickDPSers. Malady also favours autoattack more than it does AP. Wit's End is also a good consideration in certain matchups. (Secret tech vs mana-hungry-but-low-mana champs)
My current stance is that malady is a good second aspd + mdmg item. So you can go bloodrazor -> malady or wit's end -> malady or SotD -> malady, etc. You can get another aspd + mdmg item after, but that tends to leave you really squishy the entire game. It also gets you pretty close to the aspd cap, I believe, especially if you have an aspd ability (twitch, trist, teemo). These builds are especially fun on Teemo because he already has mdmg on his attack.
Same pregame stuff -Start boots, HP pots, -regular shoes -Nashor's Tooth (Stinger and upgrade shoes to zerks before finishing) -Start red potting -Bilgewater -> immediately Gunblade for the slow and more well-rounded damage type output- seems like about 50/50 phys/magical -SotO if i'm carrying -Guardian Angel -Banshee's Veil
This definitely feels like the strongest one so far, but i'm not sure whether i should be using Magic or Armor pen runes.
On December 12 2010 18:38 symbolic wrote: I haven't played teemo in a couple weeks but I would run 8/21/1 ghost/exhaust
doran's shield + hp zerker's/merc madred's frozen mallet malady/tanks items in whatever order is needed
Welcome to the build that absolutely everybody else uses. I'm fairly sure that this is the reason teemo is so underestimated right now. It's just terribly inefficient, imo.
On December 12 2010 18:38 symbolic wrote: I haven't played teemo in a couple weeks but I would run 8/21/1 ghost/exhaust
doran's shield + hp zerker's/merc madred's frozen mallet malady/tanks items in whatever order is needed
Welcome to the build that absolutely everybody else uses. I'm fairly sure that this is the reason teemo is so underestimated right now. It's just terribly inefficient, imo.
Builds are popularized for a reason and I'm pretty sure it isn't inefficiency.
On December 12 2010 18:38 symbolic wrote: I haven't played teemo in a couple weeks but I would run 8/21/1 ghost/exhaust
doran's shield + hp zerker's/merc madred's frozen mallet malady/tanks items in whatever order is needed
Welcome to the build that absolutely everybody else uses. I'm fairly sure that this is the reason teemo is so underestimated right now. It's just terribly inefficient, imo.
Builds are popularized for a reason and I'm pretty sure it isn't inefficiency.
just because a build is popular doesnt make it good.
On December 12 2010 18:38 symbolic wrote: I haven't played teemo in a couple weeks but I would run 8/21/1 ghost/exhaust
doran's shield + hp zerker's/merc madred's frozen mallet malady/tanks items in whatever order is needed
Welcome to the build that absolutely everybody else uses. I'm fairly sure that this is the reason teemo is so underestimated right now. It's just terribly inefficient, imo.
Builds are popularized for a reason and I'm pretty sure it isn't inefficiency.
just because a build is popular doesnt make it good.
A cookie-cutter build is usually a lot better than the vast amount of other builds that people try out on a whim. Starting out on cookie-cutter builds and then altering it to your own likes is usually the best way to go around it imo. But obviously people have had success with unrecreational builds, like odds, so it ultimately it comes down to what the player is most comfortable with.
I've just had success with the build I listed and if he finds it inefficient then to each his own.
On December 12 2010 18:38 symbolic wrote: I haven't played teemo in a couple weeks but I would run 8/21/1 ghost/exhaust
doran's shield + hp zerker's/merc madred's frozen mallet malady/tanks items in whatever order is needed
Welcome to the build that absolutely everybody else uses. I'm fairly sure that this is the reason teemo is so underestimated right now. It's just terribly inefficient, imo.
Builds are popularized for a reason and I'm pretty sure it isn't inefficiency.
Builds are popularized for a number of reasons. Efficiency can be (but is not necessarily) one of them.
My specific problem with this is that it symply has absolutely no synergy with any of Teemo's skills. It's basically treating Teemo like a crappier version of any ranged AD carry. The attack speed on Madred's increases the amount of times that his E will proc and... that's it. This build doesn't make any use of his shrooms whatsoever, Teemo has no need for an early Madreds because he is not an early baron hero and should not be hitting tanks, and Frozen Mallet is just a terrible item that does not add enough damage and is overshadowed by Hextech Gunblade.
If you're going to play Teemo, I think it is probably wise to play him like Teemo, not a shitty version of Trist.
On December 12 2010 18:38 symbolic wrote: I haven't played teemo in a couple weeks but I would run 8/21/1 ghost/exhaust
doran's shield + hp zerker's/merc madred's frozen mallet malady/tanks items in whatever order is needed
Welcome to the build that absolutely everybody else uses. I'm fairly sure that this is the reason teemo is so underestimated right now. It's just terribly inefficient, imo.
Builds are popularized for a reason and I'm pretty sure it isn't inefficiency.
Builds are popularized for a number of reasons. Efficiency can be (but is not necessarily) one of them.
My specific problem with this is that it symply has absolutely no synergy with any of Teemo's skills. It's basically treating Teemo like a crappier version of any ranged AD carry. The attack speed on Madred's increases the amount of times that his E will proc and... that's it. This build doesn't make any use of his shrooms whatsoever, Teemo has no need for an early Madreds because he is not an early baron hero and should not be hitting tanks, and Frozen Mallet is just a terrible item that does not add enough damage and is overshadowed by Hextech Gunblade.
If you're going to play Teemo, I think it is probably wise to play him like Teemo, not a shitty version of Trist.
Well the madred/frozen mallet build isn't focused on his shrooms doing damage but the spotting/utility aspect of them. And I disagree that madred doesn't have good synergy because, as you stated, it's more E procs but it also does a shit ton of damage. It's a better version of malady that scales incredibly well with the late game. I couldn't imagine not getting at least phage on teemo because if your enemy isn't slowed then your W is pretty much useless at getting away. Yes, shrooms slow but you can't have a shroom in every possible escape route (even though this is ideal).
Lastly, I don't know why of all champions you would compare him to trist. They are completely opposite in every aspect and trist doesn't even build any of the things I listed except... boots. If anything, teemo is like a much more versatile kogmaw that has less range, less damage, more utility, and escape abilities.
On December 12 2010 18:38 symbolic wrote: I haven't played teemo in a couple weeks but I would run 8/21/1 ghost/exhaust
doran's shield + hp zerker's/merc madred's frozen mallet malady/tanks items in whatever order is needed
Welcome to the build that absolutely everybody else uses. I'm fairly sure that this is the reason teemo is so underestimated right now. It's just terribly inefficient, imo.
Builds are popularized for a reason and I'm pretty sure it isn't inefficiency.
Builds are popularized for a number of reasons. Efficiency can be (but is not necessarily) one of them.
My specific problem with this is that it symply has absolutely no synergy with any of Teemo's skills. It's basically treating Teemo like a crappier version of any ranged AD carry. The attack speed on Madred's increases the amount of times that his E will proc and... that's it. This build doesn't make any use of his shrooms whatsoever, Teemo has no need for an early Madreds because he is not an early baron hero and should not be hitting tanks, and Frozen Mallet is just a terrible item that does not add enough damage and is overshadowed by Hextech Gunblade.
If you're going to play Teemo, I think it is probably wise to play him like Teemo, not a shitty version of Trist.
actually it has pretty decent synergy all around. malady gives madreds and teemo e extra dmg and mallet gives slow, which combined with his blind and speed boost makes it insanely easy to kite melee dps. dont really see a problem with it.
edit: and the rain man used this build to kick ass even before teemo and malady got buffed (not sure he used malady pre-buff, i think it might have been nashors, but mallet and mbr for sure)
edit2: wait what the fuck? since when are mallet and gunblade comparable items?
On December 12 2010 17:52 Odds wrote: ok new refinement of build:
Same pregame stuff -Start boots, HP pots, -regular shoes -Nashor's Tooth (Stinger and upgrade shoes to zerks before finishing) -Start red potting -Bilgewater -> immediately Gunblade for the slow and more well-rounded damage type output- seems like about 50/50 phys/magical -SotO if i'm carrying -Guardian Angel -Banshee's Veil
This definitely feels like the strongest one so far, but i'm not sure whether i should be using Magic or Armor pen runes.
You'll probably hit harder with GRB than Nashor's, and for less money.
On December 12 2010 21:24 symbolic wrote: Well the madred/frozen mallet build isn't focused on his shrooms doing damage but the spotting/utility aspect of them. And I disagree that madred doesn't have good synergy because, as you stated, it's more E procs but it also does a shit ton of damage. It's a better version of malady that scales incredibly well with the late game.
Sort of, yeah. Malady, however, helps your abilities scale. I will still buy the occasional Malady/Madred's, don't get me wrong-- but the Gunblade does (not quite as much, but getting there) damage, keeps you in the field, improves your shrooms and Q and E, and....
I couldn't imagine not getting at least phage on teemo because if your enemy isn't slowed then your W is pretty much useless at getting away. Yes, shrooms slow but you can't have a shroom in every possible escape route (even though this is ideal).
Gives you an incredible slow.
On December 12 2010 21:24 symbolic wrote: Lastly, I don't know why of all champions you would compare him to trist. They are completely opposite in every aspect and trist doesn't even build any of the things I listed except... boots. If anything, teemo is like a much more versatile kogmaw that has less range, less damage, more utility, and escape abilities.
Trist was probably a bad choice for a comparison, I agree. I just wanted to have a quick example and didn't think too much about it.
I think it's pretty obvious that AP Teemo with Void Staff + Zhonya's is best teemo. Max cdr for shrooms obviously. Maybe a WotA too if you're into that kind of thing. (Spell vamp so good on Teemo, just put some shrooms down in creep paths and you'll heal randomly sometimes. lolol)
On December 13 2010 05:54 DarthThienAn wrote: I think it's pretty obvious that AP Teemo with Void Staff + Zhonya's is best teemo. Max cdr for shrooms obviously. Maybe a WotA too if you're into that kind of thing. (Spell vamp so good on Teemo, just put some shrooms down in creep paths and you'll heal randomly sometimes. lolol)
Does spell vamp apply on Toxic Shot? I seem to remember reading somewhere that it doesn't.
On December 13 2010 05:54 DarthThienAn wrote: I think it's pretty obvious that AP Teemo with Void Staff + Zhonya's is best teemo. Max cdr for shrooms obviously. Maybe a WotA too if you're into that kind of thing. (Spell vamp so good on Teemo, just put some shrooms down in creep paths and you'll heal randomly sometimes. lolol)
Does spell vamp apply on Toxic Shot? I seem to remember reading somewhere that it doesn't.
I don't think so, unfortunately. It still works well enough with shrooms and Q to be helpful on the Gunblade.
On December 13 2010 00:49 oberon wrote: You'll probably hit harder with GRB than Nashor's, and for less money.
Nashor's is for the CDR (for shrooms) and mana regen (For SHROOMS!) as much as the attack damage. If you are going to play Teemo, once again, might as well actually capitalize on the thing that makes him the goddamn Teemo.
Malady builds are good. I just think this one is probably better in most situations.
Also, spell vamp on shrooms helps turn you into an insane backdoor/pushbot. Second only to TF and Sivir imo
On December 13 2010 00:49 oberon wrote: You'll probably hit harder with GRB than Nashor's, and for less money.
Nashor's is for the CDR (for shrooms) and mana regen (For SHROOMS!) as much as the attack damage. If you are going to play Teemo, once again, might as well actually capitalize on the thing that makes him the goddamn Teemo.
Well, GRB also gives you AP, it just gives you more attack damage. Different points on the same spectrum, I suppose, but I find that, when the feces hits the blower (i.e. teamfights/hard pushes) Teemo is a DPS and needs to be able to fulfill that role.
Malady builds are good. I just think this one is probably better in most situations.
Again, I think malady is a fine second big item, but your first has to be something that does magic damage, or it's a huge waste of money.
Also, spell vamp on shrooms helps turn you into an insane backdoor/pushbot. Second only to TF and Sivir imo
Panth is as good as TF, and Shen is better than Sivir. Nidalee is also around the Teemo/Sivir level, I think.
mbr + malady is all you really need for dps items, anything more is really a waste of money but going this route just feels like any ranged carry (except with magic and not physical damage).
GRB -> Malady -> HGB is a solid core that keeps your damage relevant throughout the entire game while still allowing you to build defensive enough to not die immediately in fights.
People who say playing Teemo as an AD carry is strictly inferior are right in a way, since none of Teemo's stats scale with typical carry items - with the exception of Toxic Shot.
Toxic Shot provides a very noticable 'AD' increase packed with a DoT, not to mention it's also magic damage. To put things into perspective, Teemo deals 165 poison damage per hit at Level 9 (max Toxic Shot). If you're able to spread your hits, you should be able to average a bonus of at least 75 per hit. No other 'carry' comes with a stronger steroid, except arguably MF's Impure Shots. Coupled with his high base attack speed, Teemo makes a fierce candidate for an 'AD' carry. He's still pretty meh, however, right until he gets Malady, which basically makes him a mix-damage carry that also reduces enemy MR. Pretty niche imo.
I play a very unique teemo that maximizes attack speed and on hit effects. Each auto attack should bring 4-5 numbers over the target's head and you do a LOT more damage that it seems like you should. The skill leveling and runes are basically the same as the OP. For summoners I always get Flash, then vary the second. Masteries are flexible, but you definitely want the 15% magic pen.
Items: Core: Boots of swiftness, Malady, Sword of the Divine Against tanky ops: Maldred's bloodrazer Against squishy: Black Cleaver or Rageblade If you need better chasing power: Frozen Mallet And and item to be less squishy (frozen heart, randuin's, banshee's, guardian angel)
Start with boots and health pot x3. Focus on last hitting creeps and don't poke unless it's completely safe for you or you're lvl 3+ (hurray on hit poison) Also remember with teemo's animations, you can pull of an auto attack and a Q at virtually the same time to score a couple hundred damage (over time) with a single poke. Rush a malady, and go B to get it as soon as you can. (Malady teemo farms like a boss with simple auto attacks) From here, try to do AA-Q-AA for your pokes. After malady, grab a SotD, and try to incorporate your 100 damage bonus into your pokes. I almost always follow up with a bloodrazer because the team generally relies on me to shred the enemy tank in a team fight.
At this point, attack speed is around 2.2, and each hit lowers magic resist, and does a total damage of 20+E impact damage+4% of their max health+100 every forth+AD.
Also, if you hit the point where your items slots are full but you still have a ton of cash (which isn't too uncommon because teemo farms like a boss), I like to transition to AD/AS penetrating Teemo with stark's, SotD, Cleaver x 2, or Cleaver + bloodthirster and tanky item.
On December 14 2010 03:49 DarthThienAn wrote: I find that DFG and HGB work really well on Teemo. Great for bringing back games. I think it's recorded on 5hit's stream somewhere.
hehehe.
HEY YOU! THATS MY BUILD!
I used that build forever, but happy someone else has concluded wisdom with it (:
Please do get add some ignite to it, add some sour Nashors and finish the conclusion with rageblade.
On December 14 2010 02:46 nyxnyxnyx wrote: People who say playing Teemo as an AD carry is strictly inferior are right in a way, since none of Teemo's stats scale with typical carry items - with the exception of Toxic Shot.
Toxic Shot provides a very noticable 'AD' increase packed with a DoT, not to mention it's also magic damage. To put things into perspective, Teemo deals 165 poison damage per hit at Level 9 (max Toxic Shot). If you're able to spread your hits, you should be able to average a bonus of at least 75 per hit. No other 'carry' comes with a stronger steroid, except arguably MF's Impure Shots. Coupled with his high base attack speed, Teemo makes a fierce candidate for an 'AD' carry. He's still pretty meh, however, right until he gets Malady, which basically makes him a mix-damage carry that also reduces enemy MR. Pretty niche imo.
MUNDO BEST STEROID SKILL +40 damage/hit level 1 imba
On December 26 2010 19:41 Odds wrote: Now working with Ghost+Ignite HP quints mpen reds mp5/level yellows, blues 0/9/21 (SoS obviously) Start mana crystal + pots Catalyst Shoes -> immediately sorcs Malady BV Stinger Phage Maybe finish Nashor's
seems most reliable so far, unfortunately i keep running into Eves so I have to finish BV early =/
I run just yellow mp5/lvl and do just fine in terms of mana. This ofc leaves me 9 blue slots to run MR. I also run 21 def (like I said, I don't need the 5 mp5 that Utility provides). Also I start with Doran's Blade/Shield. All that together = a lot less problems with bursty types like Eve, giving you the survivability needed for your DoTs to kick in.
On December 26 2010 19:41 Odds wrote: Now working with Ghost+Ignite HP quints mpen reds mp5/level yellows, blues 0/9/21 (SoS obviously) Start mana crystal + pots Catalyst Shoes -> immediately sorcs Malady BV Stinger Phage Maybe finish Nashor's
seems most reliable so far, unfortunately i keep running into Eves so I have to finish BV early =/
I run just yellow mp5/lvl and do just fine in terms of mana. This ofc leaves me 9 blue slots to run MR. I also run 21 def (like I said, I don't need the 5 mp5 that Utility provides). Also I start with Doran's Blade/Shield. All that together = a lot less problems with bursty types like Eve, giving you the survivability needed for your DoTs to kick in.
Yeah, I've been waffling between whether I should use Mr/level blues or mana regen- I still have different experiences just about every game.
I had been starting Doran's Blade/shield (and not getting catalyst, obviously), but I feel that Cata is far too great a boon to Teemo's early game to waste, and I would consider BV core on him due to its immense synergy with his W. Still experimenting, I certainly don't think your build is invalid.
EDIT: come to think of it, I guess I should probably use the MR blues if I'm getting Cata anyway
Teemo Move Quick - Ability Rework Passive - Now grants 10/15/20/25/30% increased movement speed until struck by a champion or turret Active - Teemo gains double his passive move speed for 4 seconds. This bonus is not lost on hit
teemo has been more than viable since forever idk why riot is stacking buffs on him,one day some1's gonna show the community the viability of teemo than he becomes fotm than teemo gonna get put in a worse spot that he was before :S
On December 28 2010 12:47 nyxnyxnyx wrote: Loco is a good player but taking his word on Teemo builds is a little stretching it.
The only thing I 'took his word' for was the rings, which do work extremely well with the rest of the build. Most of it is simply me changing my mind.
do u think ring first will still be ok with the dorans change?
Probably not. I think my new build is pretty vastly superior- it's sort of a fusion of one of my original setups and a talk with Spud, as well as the new patch. I haven't played since the patch, obviously, and won't be playing for probably a week or two, but I used this quite a bit before it got buffed by the patch to incredible success.
-9/21/0 -Ghost/Flash (may change to flash/ignite post-patch... jesus move quick looks op now) -RUNES I will probably get laughed at for this. I don't really give a fuck, because it's probably OP.
AS reds Armor yellows Mp5 blues (swap to mp5 yellows and mres blues if you expect to lane against a caster)
I've been considering running both armor yellows and mres blues for an even more ludicrous early game, and just getting an earlier meki pendant.
aaaaaaand
*drumroll*
hp/5 quints!
These things are amazing, especially after the nerf to flat HP quints. Combined with SoS, your Armor runes, and defensive masteries, they basically give you a free dshield at the start of the game, allowing you to open Boots and harass constantly.
For skills, open Q for the level 1 lols, then max R > E > W.
Items:
-Boots/HP pots -Zerks -Nashor's Tooth (Prioritize meki pendant and Stinger) -Hextech Gunblade
The problem I had before with the Nash/Hextech build was that I just didn't have enough AS to do the DPS I needed. The Berserker's Greaves and AS% reds are huuuuuge for correcting this problem. Nashor's Tooth gives you just enough CDR and mana regen to spam shrooms fucking everywhere, as well as boosting your DPS and your abilities by significant amounts. Hextech gives you a massive DPS boost, some much-needed sustainability (because you'll be solo-pushing a lot), and an enormous slow.
Assuming you're shrooming properly, people will be stepping on them a lot. If you are close, and the enemy is somewhat isolated, it is extremely easy to follow up with a combo as such:
Mushroom -> Autoattack -> Hextech -> Autoattack -> Q -> Autoattack -> ignite if you have it. A squishy hero [i]will[i] die, and the rest will take a huge amount of damage.
If there is enough demand, I will make a shrooming guide with pictures.
Oh please, there's no soloer that's going to be doing more damage than teemo with toxic shot and mass AS runes, nor be able to burst him down anytime soon.
Rejuv bead + 6 health pots >>> health pendent + 1 pot if you're going to be right-clicking to win your lane. This works on teemo strictly because he can move fast enough to land several attacks in a row (works on Ashe as well, except it takes Ashe way longer to do enough damage and she'll get ganked by the jungler if she zoned aggressively).
On February 02 2011 03:58 Juicyfruit wrote: Oh please, there's no soloer that's going to be doing more damage than teemo with toxic shot and mass AS runes, nor be able to burst him down anytime soon.
Rejuv bead + 6 health pots >>> health pendent + 1 pot if you're going to be right-clicking to win your lane. This works on teemo strictly because he can move fast enough to land several attacks in a row (works on Ashe as well, except it takes Ashe way longer to do enough damage and she'll get ganked by the jungler if she zoned aggressively).
Doran's change wasn't that big to Teemo in my opinion. I always get boots first plus three health pots with Teemo. Some may disagree, but I've had a lot of success with it. Of course, I'm not super pro or high leveled or anything so there may be people who think that this build is really stupid but yeah. You have to get boots anyway, one of Teemo's biggest asset is his speed, so why not open with it?
I also like the idea of getting a rejuv bead that was mentioned earlier. Dagger first could work but I feel like boots or the rejuv bead might be better.
Will be really pissed though if these changes cause people to bitch about Teemo being OP and result in an unneeded nerf.
I don't get this whole nashor's on teemo thing. It just don't make sense. It's like the worse DPS item in the world, why would you get it, and if you wanted CDR why didn't you go AP teemo with the DFG or something.
It's not like I haven't tried it. It just feels totally weak compared to malady+madred's, which can still put down shrooms for map control in any case. Most of your shroom damage comes from levels too rather than items.
On February 03 2011 02:55 phyvo wrote: I don't get this whole nashor's on teemo thing. It just don't make sense. It's like the worse DPS item in the world, why would you get it, and if you wanted CDR why didn't you go AP teemo with the DFG or something.
It's not like I haven't tried it. It just feels totally weak compared to malady+madred's, which can still put down shrooms for map control in any case. Most of your shroom damage comes from levels too rather than items.
People get nashor's on AD teemo? Never heard of that.
Nashor's doesn't make sense to me whether you're going for AP or pure DPS. If you wanted CDR on AP teemo DFG makes more sense, though I'd rather grab Ionian boots/golem and then stack AP/void staff. If you wanted DPS you can go Madred's/Malady and be more efficient obviously.
If you wanted to go hybrid Nashor's is still bad because it's just a horrible item, you can get nearly as much AP from an uncharged rageblade and the attack speed is useless without real damage (toxic shot is good but doesn't completely subsitute for damage on hit).
Again, I think the CDR on nashor's is way overrated and there are a million better sources of AP and attack speed.
On February 03 2011 04:00 barbsq wrote: malady wits #1
sogut, after u can build whatever the hell you want
I played a normal today and decided I wanted as many numbers over my enemies as possible. I went zerkers,malady, wits, sotd, madreds, I couldnt find any more items that would give numbers After that i went frozen mallet cause karthus ult was almost instagibbing me and banshees seemed too tryhard for normal. Pretty fun build if you like seeing them numbers, not very efficient though, hit the AS cap.
I go malady wits end frozen mallet usually... nashor's is retarded, that item isn't even good on kayle and I can't imagine a hero better suited for it. Total trash item
On February 03 2011 02:55 phyvo wrote: I don't get this whole nashor's on teemo thing. It just don't make sense. It's like the worse DPS item in the world, why would you get it, and if you wanted CDR why didn't you go AP teemo with the DFG or something.
%AS %CDR Mana regen (shrooms) AP (increases DPS and shrooms)
The way I build teemo, I desperately need all of these things. Nashor's is perfect.
And no, DFG is terribad on teemo because he doesn't have followup burst- he needs to kill people after they step on a shroom.
On February 03 2011 02:55 phyvo wrote: I don't get this whole nashor's on teemo thing. It just don't make sense. It's like the worse DPS item in the world, why would you get it, and if you wanted CDR why didn't you go AP teemo with the DFG or something.
%AS %CDR Mana regen (shrooms) AP (increases DPS and shrooms)
The way I build teemo, I desperately need all of these things. Nashor's is perfect.
And no, DFG is terribad on teemo because he doesn't have followup burst- he needs to kill people after they step on a shroom.
It always puzzles me when people respond to 'this item is bad' with 'well it has stats x y and z.' Do you think we're illiterate? We know what it does and it still sucks.
Wooow, I love Teemo now!! I go 9/0/21 mpen red/mp5-lvl yellow/mr-lvl blue/and SUGAR RUSH quints. Teleport+Cleanse. Open dshield to compensate squishyness>boots 1>malady>zerkers OR boots 3 OR mercury> phage> mallet> recurve>BR >Wit's end OR SotD (SotD before BR if some1 has high dodge)> Banshee OR FoN OR GA. QSS as third or fourth item if there is ww or malza on the other team.
On February 03 2011 05:55 UniversalSnip wrote: We know what it does
Apparently not, or you wouldn't claim that
On February 03 2011 05:55 UniversalSnip wrote: and it still sucks.
Either that, or you play Teemo sub-optimally, likely putting AD or something on him. the simple fact is that Teemo is not an ad carry, and requires an entirely different playstyle and itemization. Teemo's jobs are the following:
1. Shut down his lane (Reasoning behind my runes) 2. Generate and maintain map control with shrooms 3. Initiate and help team escape fights with shrooms (requires excellent placement and a slightly functional team) 4. Provide moderate hybrid AD/magic DPS in fights 5. Blind 6. Pick off runners with his ridiculous movespeed and DoT 7. Solo push
A lot of people like building Malady -> Madred's -> Frozen Mallet on him. This is an effective build, but it is not optimal, because it only helps him perform task 4, which any 'real' ranged AD carry can do much better.
Nashor's Tooth helps immensely with 1 (meki pendant), 2, 3, 4, 5, AND 7. AS% is huge on teemo, because it procs his poison more: he needs AS far more than AD. The CDR and mana-regen allows you to put down a truly obnoxious amount of shrooms, which helps incalculably with solo pushing in addition to map control. The AP bonus increases his DPS (About 10 extra damage per shot), his Q damage (about 50 extra damage iirc), and his shrooms' power (by 50-60).
It is also a flawless complement to the Hextech Gunblade, which helps a lot with 4,5,6, and 7. The %AS from your Zerks, Nashor's, and runes scales with ALL of the following: AP AD Passive E So Hextech, in addition to raising your DPS to absolutely massive amounts (about 250 mixed damage per shot, iirc) also helps greatly with solo pushing because of the lifesteal and lolololshroomspellvamp. The AP results in more powerful shrooms, which is obviously nice, but the most important component of Gunblade is this:
Active: Slows a target by 50% for 3 seconds, 700 range
If a squishy character steps on a shroom while you are nearby, you can walk up to them, proceed to hit them for your 250 damage until the slow wears off, blast them with Hextech, and quite often get a free kill. Even if it's a tank or whatever, if you are playing correctly, this slow allows you to set up a huge amount of kills for your team.
The obvious disadvantage to this build is that it does not have anything in the way of armor or magic armor penetration: and thus works vastly better against squishy teams, and teams which are already a bit behind (ie you are fed from your ridiculous laning power: this will happen often). If the enemy team is too tanky, there is no problem with adjusting the build accordingly, or using something entirely different.
I'm gonna try gunblade a few games before I talk about that, but as far as nashor's I don't have mana problems on teemo and tbh I think CDR is pretty shitty on him. There's an upper limit where it's simply not that useful to spam more shrooms and I think he's pretty close to it even with 0% cdr.
He rolls the hell out of squishies with pretty much any basic on-hit item (malady, wit's end, etc, it doesn't even matter), that's his job... he doesn't need to get a ton better at that
On February 04 2011 05:40 UniversalSnip wrote: but as far as nashor's I don't have mana problems on teemo
Then either you aren't placing enough shrooms or your runes are suboptimal.
On February 04 2011 05:40 UniversalSnip wrote:and tbh I think CDR is pretty shitty on him.
Then you're just plain wrong, sorry.
On February 04 2011 05:40 UniversalSnip wrote:and tbh I think CDR is pretty shitty on him.
There's an upper limit where it's simply not that useful to spam more shrooms[/quote] No. There isn't.
On February 04 2011 05:40 UniversalSnip wrote:He rolls the hell out of squishies with pretty much any basic on-hit item (malady, wit's end, etc, it doesn't even matter), that's his job... he doesn't need to get a ton better at that
Sooooooo why not do it with an item that comes with a huge number of peripheral benefits instead of one that just gives you a tiny bit more dps?
Fuck it, I'm going to carry to 1800 with teemo out of raw spite
Whatever you think DFG allways been the best thing for me to open on PURE ap teemo.
It gives CDR, mp5, things you need and it gives you burst. (which can be suprisingly high when paired with shroom + dart, and will kill if your opponent doesnt have MR)
but on normal teemo i agree, nashors definitly best, though idk about gunblade, i like mallet and bloodrazors too much for that i think
oh and I use sorc boots tell me why greaves are better than cutting opponents MR to 0 during early midgame
On February 04 2011 06:36 Iplaythings wrote: oh and I use sorc boots tell me why greaves are better than cutting opponents MR to 0 during early midgame
They are only better for my (rather specific) build, and I wouldn't endorse them in many other cases. Particularly if you are for some reason maxing Q, sorc boots will be better.
On February 04 2011 05:40 UniversalSnip wrote: There's an upper limit where it's simply not that useful to spam more shrooms and I think he's pretty close to it even with 0% cdr.
I have always disliked nashor's tooth since attack speed and AP is a retarded combination, and even on teemo who actually uses all the stats well I don't think it's a good item to be investing in. If you want to cap CDR for practically no cost:
9/0/21, CDR boots, blue elixir, blue CDR glyphs.
Now if we tried to use the extra 2885 gold to get 75%AS (50% from nashors and 25% from zerkers) we could do:
Malady (1825) -> 25AP, 50% AS and a nifty passive that's well worth the 30AP difference with nashor's tooth
And you could be starting on your hextech gunblade 1000g sooner which is pretty huge. I don't know about you but getting hextech after completing a 3k gold item and then boots just doesn't sound like a reasonable idea given how the nuke it gives doesn't scale.
So, teemo is recommended... somehow... and I bought him first after hitting 20 and buying runes. He seems like garbage tho, especially since the change to movequick, so here's my current build. teach me pls: I play AP teemo because if I wanted to AD, there was WAY better heros than teemo. Teemo is for mapcontrol spell damage imo... anyways >help<
Clarity/Flash. (tried exhaust for a while, but clarity seems better as a team skill especially in a dual lane, which is usually where I am)
Mark: MPen Seal: dodge Glyph: MPregen Quint: HP
Q, E, E, W, E, R W, Q, Q, Q, R, Q, W, W,W, R, E, E
(explaination, blind seems best as first skill, then E as harass skill, then I need movequick but I'm torn between it and blind at this point. So I halfass the movequick and try to max blind)
Items: Amplifying Tome, pot Boots1 Sheen/Haunting Guise (guise if I'm struggling, sheen if I'm dominating) Boots swiftness/Merc treads (swift if I'm dominating, merc if I'm getting CCd or bursted) Then: {Abyssal Scepter (if need MR) {Zhonya's Hourglass (if need armor but also need AP) {Rylai's Scepter (if team lacks CC) {Deathfire Grasp (if team is perfect, get this for AP and CDR)} Then: If I have sheen I turn it into lichbane here. Banshee's Viel (if I'm getting CC'd hard) Frozen Heart (if opponents are hardcore AD) Spirit Visage (if I didn't get DFG and team is doing well enough to let me get CDR)
On February 05 2011 08:53 Tadzio wrote: so AP teemo is trolling, AD teemo is garbage compared to other options... hybrid teemo is ... just bad at everything?
Hybrid teemo is ludicrously strong. The problem is that AP doesn't scale nearly as well on teemo as well as Magic Pen and Attack Speed. There are some great hybrid items (which are easily found in this thread) which give you one or the other in addition to other things Teemo needs (such as CDR), and of which AP is often a by-product.
On February 05 2011 07:42 Tadzio wrote: Any tips are welcome. thx
Basically use any build in the thread other than the one you posted. :p
For most of them - especially those that prioritize aspeed over mpen - you want to max E and then W, maybe getting 1 level in Q at level 4.
On February 05 2011 08:53 Tadzio wrote: so AP teemo is trolling, AD teemo is garbage compared to other options... hybrid teemo is ... just bad at everything?
Teemo is pretty great. I can generally solo mid and dominate against most champs. Look at locodoco's build on the last page, it's really good.
What Teemo is great at is harassing and placing mushrooms everywhere so that your team has map control. Basically, if at any point you have 3 mushrooms ready to drop you're playing Teemo wrong.
On February 05 2011 08:53 Tadzio wrote: so AP teemo is trolling, AD teemo is garbage compared to other options... hybrid teemo is ... just bad at everything?
I used to build rageblade on him immediately after malady and have stupidly good results with it. That being said I'm not at the ELO of some of the other posters, so who knows.
I still swear by malady as your first big purchase. You can just LOL all over your lane opponent with right clicking. Also makes last hitting hilariously easy and effortless. You can basically a-move and still grab every minion kill.
On February 05 2011 07:42 Tadzio wrote: So, teemo is recommended... somehow... and I bought him first after hitting 20 and buying runes. He seems like garbage tho, especially since the change to movequick, so here's my current build. teach me pls: I play AP teemo because if I wanted to AD, there was WAY better heros than teemo. Teemo is for mapcontrol spell damage imo... anyways >help<
Clarity/Flash. (tried exhaust for a while, but clarity seems better as a team skill especially in a dual lane, which is usually where I am)
Mark: MPen Seal: dodge Glyph: MPregen Quint: HP
Q, E, E, W, E, R W, Q, Q, Q, R, Q, W, W,W, R, E, E
(explaination, blind seems best as first skill, then E as harass skill, then I need movequick but I'm torn between it and blind at this point. So I halfass the movequick and try to max blind)
Items: Amplifying Tome, pot Boots1 Sheen/Haunting Guise (guise if I'm struggling, sheen if I'm dominating) Boots swiftness/Merc treads (swift if I'm dominating, merc if I'm getting CCd or bursted) Then: {Abyssal Scepter (if need MR) {Zhonya's Hourglass (if need armor but also need AP) {Rylai's Scepter (if team lacks CC) {Deathfire Grasp (if team is perfect, get this for AP and CDR)} Then: If I have sheen I turn it into lichbane here. Banshee's Viel (if I'm getting CC'd hard) Frozen Heart (if opponents are hardcore AD) Spirit Visage (if I didn't get DFG and team is doing well enough to let me get CDR)
Any tips are welcome. thx
Ignore those noobs. AP Teemo is fine. Your team just needs to build around him to maximize his potential.
EQQWQR, R > Q > E >= W Ignite/Ghost or Flash (I tend to get Flash) HP Quints, Magic Pen Reds, Mp5/Level Yellows, AP/Level Blues (CDR/Level Blues also acceptable). Doran's Shield => Kage Pick + Boots => DFG => Ionian Boots => Death Cap => Hextech Revolver => Void Staff
Early game, he's all about burst harass. Level 1, just auto attack twice if they get in range then back off to release yourself from minion aggro. Level 3, do the same but add in a Q to harass as well. As soon as you have 1100-1200, go back and get a Pick, Boots, hp pot and a ward. Continue to zone with poison harass.
Late game, Teemo is all about kiting. To make the most of Teemo, you have to ensure that every team fight, the enemy is at worse standing than yours. If in the next 180 seconds, your team is pushing bot, you have to shroom all the path to reach bottom path before you reach tower. If they all take the safe path, split push. You want them to run around through their jungle and other choke points because it is the "shortest" path to defend. Shortest path option for them means running into shrooms. Longer path, but safer (no shrooms) means your team should be able to severely damage the enemy tower(s).
Do the same for Baron, shroom all paths so when you do start, they have to run in at least 3 before reaching Baron.
Teemo's greatest weakness is his inability to aid his team in inhibitor tower pushing. So it's your responsibility to put your team far ahead enough with your superior map control to make sure they can siege with ease.
When shrooming early on, hit all tight choke points. If they are smart, they'll get an oracle's. When that happens, you need to start shrooming the grass enterances into the jungle. Even with oracle's, you can't see into brush, the enemy team will still have to risk running into it. Save all of your burst (Q, DFG, Ignite) for the enemy oracle's holder in team fights. Oracle's greatly reduces your map control. If the oracle's holder is a tank, tell your team to start a team fight, kill the oracle's then back if possible.
just to clarify for noobs, DFG is great on AP teemo because his damage is delayed so DFG's nuke coming after a mushroom isn't bad because it'll be after just 1 tick which means you still make a lot of the % damage.
also, after plunging almost 100 elo last night, I have decided that I will be playing the captain a lot this week and I'll be sure to report back here with my thoughts.
On February 05 2011 08:28 azndsh wrote: AP teemo is for trolling
But it's so fun. Seriously teemo is my #1 favorite champ at the moment simply because of how annoying he is. I just go into the "teemo zone" or something and all of a sudden I'm freaking queen of the trolls, making people hate their lives and ragequit games. It's awesome. No other hero I've played can drop someone from 100% hp to 0 in under a second in the right circumstances. Absolutely hilarious.
Ignite/Flash, always! 9/0/21. Pretty much any runes work, but you want magic pen, and mp5 mainly, anything else is just customizable. Open D-shield, and take a solo lane. You will wreck melee champs so bad it's not even funny. Get blinding dart, max ur poison asap, and just freaking farm. Teemo's harass ability is so stupidly powerful you don't even have to try. Whenever enemy pokes in range, Q+ auto attack. You just magically outlast them via your DOTs. D-shield lets you stay in lane forever. Once you hit 6, just put shrooms EVERYWHERE. Turn your lane into a forest. Turn ganks into a double kill. It's hilarious.
First trip back to town pick up sorc boots and some pots. Wards for chumps, there should be at least 10 shrooms clogging up your lane. Put them *everywhere*. Make it so your lane opponent is going to walk into them just by trying to last hit. They do such crazy damage. Next item to rush is DFG asap. Then start trolling. Go sit in their jungle somewhere. Put down some shrooms and go stealth. Someone comes along, hits the shroom, you DFG, Q, auto attack and ignite. They will die like 95% of the time.
After that you can get deathcap, rush lichbane, pick up abyssal, whatever you need. Late game once you have lichbane you can seriously healthbar squishies in under a second. Your full burst will have you giggling like an idiot. And the knowledge that your opponent will be punching holes in the wall just makes the whole experience all the better!
Hog blue buff like a slut. Shrooms everywhere. Pickup kills from across the map. Gank like a retard with your OP W spell. Be everywhere at once, and leave a pile of shrooms wherever you go! Seriously I can't overstate how fun this troll build is. I'm usually laughing insanely to myself when I play teemo lolololoolol
i bought teemo (my least favorite champ EVER conceived) and played a game with him totally changed my mind, jesus tits he's fun as a bag of titties and whipped cream
i went d-shield open into malady->zerkers->BRs->abyssal->haunting guise->mallet i was able to kite anyone that walked by me when i was invis, from full to 0 in a few seconds but felt worthless in teamfights unless their ad carry engaged me directly (in which case i crushed)
with abyssal, 19 mpen runes, guise, 15% mpen masteries, i was doing near-true damage on shrooms and true damage with BR + malady to every champ in the game except their panth who went banshee hexdrinker zerkers quicksilver lol
pretty much awesome, can't wait to bring him to some ranked games
Last time I went smurfing as Singed I was the only one on my team who did anything late game (bad underfarmed anivia, AP tristana, not very good mf, don't even remember who the 5th was). Unfortunately the enemy team had a Trollmo with Frozen Mallet. As soon as Trist stopped being able to burst him from 100% to dead, we lost every teamfight because he could just kite me. Except one where I bought oracles and we found him sitting in the middle of our team.
The rainman uses a very tanky rune setup involving HP quints and flat MR blues. 9/21/0. He seems to be getting wriggles as well for pushing/lanestaying/ward/neutrals. He buys dorans blades whenever he feels threatened by burst it seems as well.
Malady - 50% AS, 25AP, 20 magic damage, shreds 6 MR per hit, up to 4 stacks (-24MR) - 1825g
Wits End - 40% AS, 30MR, 42 magic damage, removes 42 mana per hit - 2150g
I'm tending to go Wits End nowadays because I prefer the extra MR and the mana steal early. If you get this item fast you can actually steal significant mana in early fights, whether its a 1v1 or a teamfight.
Malady is better from a damage perspective. Wit's End is situationally better, but really I'd almost always go Malady over Wit's End. Wit's End is really only good against shitfaces like Rammus and Alistar who have high mitigation and HP.
Not really in practice. Wits end works early/midgame against champs that you can dominate thanks to the MR, damage and Mana advantage. Alistar and Rammus are actually the ones that suffer heavily under Manastarvation.
malady helps your poison do near true damage while wits end's main bonuses are removing mana + MR. And remember that malady essentially helps the rest of your team's magic damage do more damage b/c of the reduction.
I like to get wits end if I lane against anyone with mana, just to fuck them up.But I usually go into the regular malady if I am not sure that I can zone them with wits end.
On March 12 2011 14:45 Juicyfruit wrote: The rainman uses a very tanky rune setup involving HP quints and flat MR blues. 9/21/0. He seems to be getting wriggles as well for pushing/lanestaying/ward/neutrals. He buys dorans blades whenever he feels threatened by burst it seems as well.
On March 23 2011 21:22 Shikyo wrote: The Rain Man goes for Wits end over Malady almost 100% of the time, so that probably would be better.
So what does TheRainMan's typical build look like? DBlade -> Wriggles -> Wits End? Or does he go straight to Wriggles and only picks up D Blade as needed till he can get Wits End? Any idea on how he levels his skills R>Q>E>W?
I ask since I haven't seen him play ever and can't look up history at the moment.
On March 12 2011 14:45 Juicyfruit wrote: The rainman uses a very tanky rune setup involving HP quints and flat MR blues. 9/21/0. He seems to be getting wriggles as well for pushing/lanestaying/ward/neutrals. He buys dorans blades whenever he feels threatened by burst it seems as well.
On March 23 2011 21:22 Shikyo wrote: The Rain Man goes for Wits end over Malady almost 100% of the time, so that probably would be better.
So what does TheRainMan's typical build look like? DBlade -> Wriggles -> Wits End? Or does he go straight to Wriggles and only picks up D Blade as needed till he can get Wits End? Any idea on how he levels his skills R>Q>E>W?
I ask since I haven't seen him play ever and can't look up history at the moment.
I'm not sure about the starting items, you can do boots or cloth -> Wriggles -> 2 Doran blade -> merc treads -> Wits end -> Bloodrazor -> Frozen Mallet. And I'd do this build pretty much every game unless I'm doing amazingly and getting insanely fed, in which case I might get Malady somewhere.
On March 24 2011 01:34 SQWKZ wrote: I seem to recall him going something like madreds -> phage -> wit's -> frozen (with occassional wriggle's 1st).
Occassional? He rushes wriggles literally every single game
cloth + 5 pots to start boots stack 0-3 d-blades as necessary to not die to burst/ganks (alternately, if the burst isn't a problem until after you have lantern, you can just rush your phage for the HP) wriggle's lantern wit's end merc treads phage madred's bloodrazor banshee's + frozen mallet
is the build I use, which is pretty much along the lines of what TRM is doing. And yea, Wriggle's is essential for keeping your HP up + it's stat efficiency is just fucking retardedly good and there's basically no excuse to not buy it if you need all those stats (which teemo does).
Another funny thought that I actually think has some merit is Shurelia's Reverie. I used to be trolling with it by building philostone after wriggles to keep my mana high enough to always place mushrooms before I switched back to Mana/5/level yellows, but that speed for kiting around mushrooms and stuff is deceptively strong.
Does TRM play top or mid? I'm guessing top, because it's easier to always push never die, but shrooming up and securing drag is so easy for teemo that it would feel wrong not to.
okay, time to break out old school happy elf teemo. I used to play a pro as fuck solo mid teemo way back in early beta when every trist and ashe went mid
i actually dont see much use in getting mp5 on temoo, since in lane i just autoattack them to death and movequick to escape, with blinding shot just for when they get the dumb idea in their head to autoattack me, so really i just use it for shrooms
On March 24 2011 09:56 barbsq wrote: i actually dont see much use in getting mp5 on temoo, since in lane i just autoattack them to death and movequick to escape, with blinding shot just for when they get the dumb idea in their head to autoattack me, so really i just use it for shrooms
I used to not run them and then I'd not be able to sustain mushroom pushes. I think you need them.
On March 24 2011 15:56 Navi wrote: bcuz rain man uses wits end and has success with it and thus every1 feels compelled 2 copy trololol
nope
I have been use both of those items, i find wits end is better, and ive expained in this thread why... everyone who buy it only think "it drains mana", but never find that 30MR + 42 bonus damage is HUGE for early game.
same for wriggle, everyone only think with it "u can kill creeps fast and it gives u life steal", but never find its the most most valuable item in the game. free ward, 23 damage, 30 armor, this shit needs a nerf!
On March 24 2011 21:32 BlackPaladin wrote: Because being able to penetrate the bonus MR given from merc treads/aegis isn't huge for early game?
I prefer tankyness over aggression. Teemo needs survivability early and farming in peace...ur range is so small, u dont even get often chance to hit enemy 4+ times even u got malady, and u will be raped by tanky dps(sion/cho) or some mage char(annie, ryze, vlad) easily.
emucxg - out of curiosity, how do you feel a build replacing your Dodge yellows with Flat Armor would work? Getting 3/3 SoS and 1/3 Harden Skin, but keeping 1/4 Evasion for the RNG dodge seems like it would give you a lot more health over the course of the laning phase.
87 (raw poison damage with wit's) / 68 (raw poison damage with malady) = 1.28. In order to make up the difference in poison DPS malady would probably have to be at full stacks. If all you're doing is poking once every 4 seconds it's 117/101=1.16, which is too great a difference to be made up for by the one stack of malady you'd have. Do keep in mind that malady is 300 gold cheaper and gets more efficient as you add on magic DPS items (like bloodrazor).
Also, Malady would probably provide a lot more DPS if used in conjunction with Q and shrooms.
On March 24 2011 22:33 Niton wrote: emucxg - out of curiosity, how do you feel a build replacing your Dodge yellows with Flat Armor would work? Getting 3/3 SoS and 1/3 Harden Skin, but keeping 1/4 Evasion for the RNG dodge seems like it would give you a lot more health over the course of the laning phase.
both armor and dodge are good for teemo imho. armor maybe better for early game.
I use dodge for teemo, because it gave me alot movespeed boost when I AFK-farm/backdoor, when they chase you, u can easily escape with dodge-moveboost + W and say goodbye to the enemy team. Dodge also helps u in the team fight, can always escape when you are low.
yeah, both are great, but NEVER USE MANA REGEN RUNES FOR TEEMO.
edit. im not high-elo, in this thread i just wanna share my experience with my noob teemo. everyone have different play style anyways.
i see a case for mp5 on teemo for mushroom pushes, but since a) that seems more effective in high elo with teammates who are aware of what you're doing, and b) i prefer using my shrooms almost strictly for map awareness, i personally dont need it
I don't understand how your gypsies don't run out of mana without Mp5pL seals. I need them and you're all bad for not needing them D=
Also, I run 0/9/21 cause I liek summoner spells =3
wit's end rapes. malady's cool and all, but it feels like a dead weight item later in the game, whereas that 30 MR is always really good and the mana burn is pretty game changing vs. a lot of characters (you all think it's way more niche than it is). Malady is frequently stronger up until like, the 20-25 minute mark maybe, but once people spec up some MRes it's dead weight.
On March 24 2011 23:59 barbsq wrote: i see a case for mp5 on teemo for mushroom pushes, but since a) that seems more effective in high elo with teammates who are aware of what you're doing, and b) i prefer using my shrooms almost strictly for map awareness, i personally dont need it
I run mp5 yellows and rush for DFG, but that's cause I play AP trollmo.
But seriously, you can *never* have too many mushrooms, so having the mana to spam them can't be a bad thing.
On March 25 2011 02:52 HazMat wrote: O. I run 21 offense on every ranged carry ever just because everyone else does and that gives them an op advantage.
teemo's not your typical ranged carry. he's special.
Hm i go 9/0/21, either go dorans or wriggles (i usually pick teemo for lanes where we need a ranged top lane so wriggles ends up being chosen for lane staying power) into mallet/BR/veil and it hasn't failed me yet. Not really a fan of wits end/malady, bloodrazer gives me bunch of stats I want and scales all game.
On March 25 2011 01:39 Mogwai wrote: I don't understand how your gypsies don't run out of mana without Mp5pL seals. I need them and you're all bad for not needing them D=
Also, I run 0/9/21 cause I liek summoner spells =3
wit's end rapes. malady's cool and all, but it feels like a dead weight item later in the game, whereas that 30 MR is always really good and the mana burn is pretty game changing vs. a lot of characters (you all think it's way more niche than it is). Malady is frequently stronger up until like, the 20-25 minute mark maybe, but once people spec up some MRes it's dead weight.
I dont find it a dead end item at all, especially not when youre like me and you have mpen reds + quints + sorc shoes, thats ALOT of mpen. (if I dont have this runeset, iwont do malady)
my build atm is (with aspd runes): doran blades as needed, wriggles, finish up with wits end / bloodrazor / banshee / mallet
with mpen runes: dshield, boots, malady, sorc boots, nashors tooth, then banshees / bloodrazor / mallet for ending.
though I guess the build is pretty bad it teemowned alot of players at my elo >_>
On March 28 2011 09:50 mrgerry wrote: Hm i go 9/0/21, either go dorans or wriggles (i usually pick teemo for lanes where we need a ranged top lane so wriggles ends up being chosen for lane staying power) into mallet/BR/veil and it hasn't failed me yet. Not really a fan of wits end/malady, bloodrazer gives me bunch of stats I want and scales all game.
So your build is something like... Wriggles -> Bloodrazor? Going to go try this out now, this sounds really fun, never thought about skipping the malady or wit's end I always get just to be fotm-style.
I dont go straight wriggles into bloodrazer. Teemo has some pretty low base hp so I like mallet before my bloodrazer to take some focus off of me and adds some great chasing power (on top of his already op chasing). Been playing teemo in ranked again with all the melee bruisers soloing and it makes going other carries just dull lol. If only every ranged had his mobility =(
Wiggle's => Blade x2 => Recurve => Phage => Bloodrazor => Mallet. That's pretty much you're core. After that Wit's End, Atma, etc for whatever your team needs based on enemy team comp.
teemo is so damn fun, can't even be pushed around in a lane by renekton is so fun. Also I played teemo long before he was a top pick! now he is to mainstream...
anyways: I like wriggle's ->recurve->wit's or bloodrazor->mallet->banshee's/FoN/sunfire, pick one and be an asshole on speed with insane dps and OM NOM NOM chasing abilities.
If I want MS that much, I'll just pass on Mallet and get Triforce instead (which is actually pretty beast sometimes, lol) or pick up a reverie for more mushrooms. I still just stick to my wriggles -> hodgepodge of wit's end, d-blades, mercs, and phage -> mallet and bloodrazor most of the time though, build's so solid.
I assumed he went FON/Sunfire/Banshee for tankyness (counter whatever is hitting you the hardest) not the MS. Did they add MS to Sunfire at somepoint and I missed it?
On a different note - I still love running AP Teemo whenever I can. I just find it to be so much fun catching someone off guard with a shroom/dart/poison/ignite combo watching them slowly die to posion/ignite.
sunfire is just completely laughable. sunfire's passive is ignorable at that point in the game and provides mediocre stats if you don't use the passive (he also isn't in the middle of everyone to get the most out of it anyway). GA, Atma's and hell, even Omen would be better choices than Sunfire to give physical durability.
The movespeed comment was about FoN which is just ridiculous on a ranged carry, even teemo. Not enough HP, not enough time to regen it. There are just too many better options for MRes (banshee's, wit's end, hexdrinker, QSS) to ever consider a FoN which really only brings movespeed to to the table (since the regen only really works on real tanks who don't get all the burst thrown at them as soon as they misstep).
On April 01 2011 05:04 Mogwai wrote: sunfire is just completely laughable. sunfire's passive is ignorable at that point in the game and provides mediocre stats if you don't use the passive (he also isn't in the middle of everyone to get the most out of it anyway). GA, Atma's and hell, even Omen would be better choices than Sunfire to give physical durability.
Obviously you use the sunfire by running somewhere where the enemy team will pass through and hiding. Completely imba hidden AOE damage!
On April 01 2011 05:12 Mogwai wrote: that was fun when they stacked, but now it's just a straight up bad idea. The damage isn't even noticeable most of the time.
I was pretty sure it was a straight up bad idea when they stacked as well. Still was fun though.
Been playing him a bit more lately. I like starting boots and 3 pots, really makes owning the lane that much easier when you can poke in and out so quickly (1 point in W at level 3).
What's the consensus on Nashor's? I usually grab it for the CD mainly but it all works pretty well since you get some MP5 and some AP never hurts even if you are AD. Nothing funnier than 15s shrooms or w/e.
Honestly though, I think him and Veigar are my two favourite champs to play. So much fun.
On April 01 2011 06:54 Mazer wrote: Been playing him a bit more lately. I like starting boots and 3 pots, really makes owning the lane that much easier when you can poke in and out so quickly (1 point in W at level 3).
What's the consensus on Nashor's? I usually grab it for the CD mainly but it all works pretty well since you get some MP5 and some AP never hurts even if you are AD. Nothing funnier than 15s shrooms or w/e.
Honestly though, I think him and Veigar are my two favourite champs to play. So much fun.
I believe most people stopped taking nashor after the malady remake when they started using Malady/BR combo. I haven't seen it awhile personally.
On April 01 2011 06:54 Mazer wrote: Been playing him a bit more lately. I like starting boots and 3 pots, really makes owning the lane that much easier when you can poke in and out so quickly (1 point in W at level 3).
What's the consensus on Nashor's? I usually grab it for the CD mainly but it all works pretty well since you get some MP5 and some AP never hurts even if you are AD. Nothing funnier than 15s shrooms or w/e.
Honestly though, I think him and Veigar are my two favourite champs to play. So much fun.
I believe most people stopped taking nashor after the malady remake when they started using Malady/BR combo. I haven't seen it awhile personally.
I know this is an old thread but I have recently been playing teemo quite a bit. I prefer an AP build to an AD build because of the map control you can have with mushrooms and your q becomes a nuke instead of a poke. Thats not to say that AD doesnt have its uses, because with malady and bloodrazor, you can shred a tank or carry very quickly. I feel this thread needs to be updated. Im sorry if this bump was unnecessary but teemo is my new favorite hero.
On August 29 2011 09:55 crate wrote: Teemo has 500 range, he can't possibly stay farther back than your typical ranged AD champ and actually do anything.
Teemo tends to build tankier than other typical range AD champs tho so he won't blow up instantly.
His blind is also really great as help to counter melee dps that try to dive you. Your shrooms also are great for peeling. Not to mention your W makes you fly away faster than ghost.
Teemo excels at backdooring, between teleport and the insane amount of teleport locations available to you via mushrooms, you can poke any tower at any time and just W away to safety when the other team sends someone after you.
In a teamfight, your primary job is to disable the most threatening enemy AD. Q -> Exhaust -> Q disables any auto-attack based champion for such a long time that the fight will be over by the time they recover from it.
Started playing Teemo a lot... maybe one of the most fun champions in the game :D
I've been working aspd/proc builds (Malady/Blood Razor/Wit's End) starting with DBlade. Been working pretty well. Any tips about lane? I've been taking solo top, but some champions really are annoying (Akali and Irelia for instance), should I just be playing passively or should I be going for pokes on the enemy champs?
On October 09 2011 11:08 Requizen wrote: Started playing Teemo a lot... maybe one of the most fun champions in the game :D
I've been working aspd/proc builds (Malady/Blood Razor/Wit's End) starting with DBlade. Been working pretty well. Any tips about lane? I've been taking solo top, but some champions really are annoying (Akali and Irelia for instance), should I just be playing passively or should I be going for pokes on the enemy champs?
Poking is great, especially against melee laners who will beat you in a straight up fight. Peronally i play a "regen" opening, using defensive masteries, as rune page, and a dorans shield. Build a philo stone, maybe another shield, and become an inmovable object in lane. The benefit of poking melee people in lane is that a lot of melee champions require the hits for sustain, whereas if your playing regen, you dont. Just have to be careful not to trade 1 hit on them for a bunch of minion dmg
Dealing with people like Akali and Irelia can be tricky. Definitely the trick against Irelia is a blind every time she jumps to you, makes the "burst" of her dmg far less, and means you almost always wont die (Unless your way over extended/low to begin). After blinding her, swift move away, as soon as she turns to run, shoot into her back. You'll pretty much always trade equally or better.
Against Akali the same tactic applies, but you have to be far more careful. A well timed blind will stop her from breaking the mark, lowering her dmg somewhat. The problem comes in her having magical burst dmg, and 3 charges on her ult, so you cant run into her back. During the early stages of the lane (1-5) poke her has much as possible. After that, play more defensively, making sure you have shrooms setup so that she cant dive you. Call for some ganks, just dont let her kill you or farm too hard. Its a pretty hard lane, if you know its coming, id recommend some MR blues and getting fast bracers as it helps negate her dmg.
As for items, try a frozen mallet, i find it really good with Teemo. I tend to pick it up as a third item, gives good survivability and adds to Teemo's already formidable cc.
The best way to abuse Teemo's amazing abilities is to farm like a boss after 6. You become incredibly hard to gank because of swift move + mushrooms warning, so once you've got those mushrooms down, dont be afraid to be continually pushing to get all the farm possible. Late game madreds + nashors + mallet gives teemo a tonne of dmg, and solid survivability against all the other "dive" melee that most carries struggle with.
On October 09 2011 11:08 Requizen wrote: Started playing Teemo a lot... maybe one of the most fun champions in the game :D
I've been working aspd/proc builds (Malady/Blood Razor/Wit's End) starting with DBlade. Been working pretty well. Any tips about lane? I've been taking solo top, but some champions really are annoying (Akali and Irelia for instance), should I just be playing passively or should I be going for pokes on the enemy champs?
Akali isn't scary pre 6. Even movequick passive should mean that she can't touch you. Nothing to stop you zoning her. Just be sure to ward around lvl four. This has the benefit of inducing a jungle gank, which if you know is coming, isn't too hard to net double buff from, don't underestimate your kiting ability with movequick
Irelia is tougher, I fail against her but I'm pretty sure it's winnable
On October 09 2011 14:50 JSH wrote: Got Teemo yesterday and he's really fun Been starting boots/pots or dorans blade, to madreds, to Malady, to Bloodrazor, to Phage, Frozen Mallet
I feel like you fall off a lot late game though :/
Vs Akali is hard D: Like I went 2-0 before we hit level 6, but after level 6, she gets crazy Got over confident and died twice ;_;
Also baiting people into shaco boxes + shrooms = hilarity
Teemo falls off late game unless you get a Void Staff so your passive+BR can still do good damage. Without Void staff you have next to no magic pen and yous imply don't hit hard. Teemo does tend to fall off later tho.
On October 09 2011 14:50 JSH wrote: Got Teemo yesterday and he's really fun Been starting boots/pots or dorans blade, to madreds, to Malady, to Bloodrazor, to Phage, Frozen Mallet
I feel like you fall off a lot late game though :/
Vs Akali is hard D: Like I went 2-0 before we hit level 6, but after level 6, she gets crazy Got over confident and died twice ;_;
Also baiting people into shaco boxes + shrooms = hilarity
Teemo falls off late game unless you get a Void Staff so your passive+BR can still do good damage. Without Void staff you have next to no magic pen and yous imply don't hit hard. Teemo does tend to fall off later tho.
Even if you build attack/attack speed, you would want void staff at the end because of his e?
On October 09 2011 14:50 JSH wrote: Got Teemo yesterday and he's really fun Been starting boots/pots or dorans blade, to madreds, to Malady, to Bloodrazor, to Phage, Frozen Mallet
I feel like you fall off a lot late game though :/
Vs Akali is hard D: Like I went 2-0 before we hit level 6, but after level 6, she gets crazy Got over confident and died twice ;_;
Also baiting people into shaco boxes + shrooms = hilarity
Teemo falls off late game unless you get a Void Staff so your passive+BR can still do good damage. Without Void staff you have next to no magic pen and yous imply don't hit hard. Teemo does tend to fall off later tho.
Even if you build attack/attack speed, you would want void staff at the end because of his e?
If you're building on-hit effects items, like Bloodrazor and Wit's End, you're going to want some kind of magic penetration otherwise you'll do absolutely no damage once the other team gets some MR. To stay relevant, you absolutely need a void staff, not just for your E, but for Bloodrazor and such too. For teemo, Void Staff isn't that bad an item cause your skills all scale with AP anyways.
On October 09 2011 14:50 JSH wrote: Got Teemo yesterday and he's really fun Been starting boots/pots or dorans blade, to madreds, to Malady, to Bloodrazor, to Phage, Frozen Mallet
I feel like you fall off a lot late game though :/
Vs Akali is hard D: Like I went 2-0 before we hit level 6, but after level 6, she gets crazy Got over confident and died twice ;_;
Also baiting people into shaco boxes + shrooms = hilarity
Teemo falls off late game unless you get a Void Staff so your passive+BR can still do good damage. Without Void staff you have next to no magic pen and yous imply don't hit hard. Teemo does tend to fall off later tho.
Even if you build attack/attack speed, you would want void staff at the end because of his e?
If you're building on-hit effects items, like Bloodrazor and Wit's End, you're going to want some kind of magic penetration otherwise you'll do absolutely no damage once the other team gets some MR. To stay relevant, you absolutely need a void staff, not just for your E, but for Bloodrazor and such too. For teemo, Void Staff isn't that bad an item cause your skills all scale with AP anyways.
Ah that would make sense Thanks for the tip I'll definitely do that
Seems pretty boring playing him,especially in lane early/mid game. Stand in stealth mode and pop some DoTs off and hope they get brave. Late game is all about zoning I guess without much AoE or anything.
On October 10 2011 02:03 eoLithic wrote: talk about one dimensional champion.
Seems pretty boring playing him,especially in lane early/mid game. Stand in stealth mode and pop some DoTs off and hope they get brave. Late game is all about zoning I guess without much AoE or anything.
Late game is about hiding under chogath, backdooring and then sitting still for 3 min when they come to gank you.
On October 10 2011 02:03 eoLithic wrote: talk about one dimensional champion.
Seems pretty boring playing him,especially in lane early/mid game. Stand in stealth mode and pop some DoTs off and hope they get brave. Late game is all about zoning I guess without much AoE or anything.
On October 10 2011 02:02 PGHatchy wrote: Teemo can't 1v1 anyone except like supports.
You have no idea how wrong you are. stutterstepping to mushrooms puts the enemy in a strange position in which if they follow you, they hit a shroom and if they back off you get free shots.
On October 10 2011 02:02 PGHatchy wrote: Teemo can't 1v1 anyone except like supports.
He can 1v1 plenty well once built with Bloodrazor and Madreds/Wit's. Any champ that relies on autos get's blinded, most melees get kited by Move Quick, and if you're good about traps you can just kite them to oblivion. There are some champs he has issues with (Mages who outrange him are hard, some ranged AD), but I've been having pretty good success with him. My biggest problem is with teamfights, actually. Small fights (2v2 3v3) he shines pretty well, but once you get to the big 5v5s, you get focused so fast.
Malady is such a nice item on Teemo don't know why people don't mention it. You can do the same/similar builds (AS, on hit effects) on Kog'maw as well and it works quite well.
Sorry for the double post but the last one was ages ago. Does anyone else find it really hard to play Teemo in ranked? There always seems to be someone who gets an oracles and kills all of my shrooms and although that's not just who Teemo is, it still makes things lame.
On October 18 2011 15:08 Lorken wrote: Sorry for the double post but the last one was ages ago. Does anyone else find it really hard to play Teemo in ranked? There always seems to be someone who gets an oracles and kills all of my shrooms and although that's not just who Teemo is, it still makes things lame.
Teemo's not as strong as he used to be before all his nerfs imo, but he's still an amazing counterpick to a vast majority of solo tops. You used to be able to win a lane by just baiting your opponent into 1-2 well placed shrooms in lane, but they don't do all that much damage anymore :\
Any melee champ that doesn't have an instant gap closer gets kited and raped by teemo all day errday top lane. Shrooms aren't as strong as they used to be, but they still serve as a very strong anti-gank tool.
On October 18 2011 15:08 Lorken wrote: Sorry for the double post but the last one was ages ago. Does anyone else find it really hard to play Teemo in ranked? There always seems to be someone who gets an oracles and kills all of my shrooms and although that's not just who Teemo is, it still makes things lame.
Teemo's not as strong as he used to be before all his nerfs imo, but he's still an amazing counterpick to a vast majority of solo tops. You used to be able to win a lane by just baiting your opponent into 1-2 well placed shrooms in lane, but they don't do all that much damage anymore :\
Any melee champ that doesn't have an instant gap closer gets kited and raped by teemo all day errday top lane. Shrooms aren't as strong as they used to be, but they still serve as a very strong anti-gank tool.
Yeah they only mostly work in bushes and stuff once someone gets an oracles. His AS/poison combo is why I love him though. DoT's FTW
On October 18 2011 15:08 Lorken wrote: Sorry for the double post but the last one was ages ago. Does anyone else find it really hard to play Teemo in ranked? There always seems to be someone who gets an oracles and kills all of my shrooms and although that's not just who Teemo is, it still makes things lame.
Teemo's not as strong as he used to be before all his nerfs imo, but he's still an amazing counterpick to a vast majority of solo tops. You used to be able to win a lane by just baiting your opponent into 1-2 well placed shrooms in lane, but they don't do all that much damage anymore :\
Any melee champ that doesn't have an instant gap closer gets kited and raped by teemo all day errday top lane. Shrooms aren't as strong as they used to be, but they still serve as a very strong anti-gank tool.
Yeah they only mostly work in bushes and stuff once someone gets an oracles. His AS/poison combo is why I love him though. DoT's FTW
Shrooms are basically just free wards once someone gets oracles. Teemo's really underrated as a counter-pick to bruisers tho. It's very easy to boss someone out of lane with flash/ignite. I like going armor yellows and quints so I can tank some creep in lane and not take too much dmg from creep and just harass them out of lane with autos.
Teemo has always been a strong pick. But most people associate him with someone trolling since he is not picked very often.
The fact is he can completely shut down someone's day with Blind -> Exhaust -> Blind while still putting out a large amount of damage thanks to his nice steroid in the form of his E. He can split push with relative impunity thanks to the map control of his mushrooms and how strong of an escape ability W is provided he begins leaving before the enemy is on him.
When solo top there are very few standard champions that don't get fucked over by him and he scales pretty well off farm too. People think he's an AD carry because he's ranged and therefore belongs bottom but that's just so utterly incorrect, if he's going to go bottom it should be as support because his Blind completely changes the scales in a damage trade between the two ADs and his DoT does a lot more damage then people give it credit for, plus since he isn't farming he can just chill safely with his passive on right in the middle of (or slightly in front of) the minion wave and deny the enemy carry almost all of his farm when he comes out to last hit.
Gayest thing I found today was guys like Tryndamere/Yi can still absolutely destroy you no how well you're doing even with the blind, if they live 2.5 secs they just lifesteal it off you while doing massive crits and such. Just have to rely on tanks protecting you there I guess.
Teemo can get alot of early kills from ignite/poison if he goes AP (which I do) I think hes a fairly strong champ that can shut down alot of solo tops.
IMO AP teemo is alot weaker then an AD/AS Teemo. The build I use is 2 dorans blade, berzerkers, madreds razer then after that I either go malady or get a defensive item depending on the situation. The speed + damage from razer and dorans stacks up well with his E.
9/21/0 (take 3 ad + cdr + mpen in offense, hp regen movespeed +hp in defense, improved summoners for both) flat MR blue + quints armour pen red armor yellows
start doran blade or boots 3pot (preference / situational, both can work. dorans blade is typically for occasions where you know you can 'stand and fight' when the jungler comes. usually when they both dont have ignite or are both heavy in magic dmg, meaning your MR is able to negate both their damage at the same time e.g. xerath mid and amumu/udyr/fiddle/ww jungle for example)
try not to recall before 6, so your shrooms start growing while you waste time buying items. get these in no particular order
-a second dblade -boots 1 -null magic mantle x 2 - > merc treads -wits end -phage -(optional malady/MBR) -mallet (or triforce for lulz)
(my rationale for order of items here is similar. i go for dblade earlier if damage type is split between the mid lane and the jungler, otherwise i get 2x null magic for gayness)
skillbuild: R>E>W>Q (i skip Q at 4 sometimes if theres no one in particular i will be blinding early)
levels 1-5: harass while last hitting. keeping the enemy mid lane low is a great defense against ganks. you can trade really well with heal + ignite Q hit hit)
level 6: usually this is when i first go back to buy, unless i die early. after getting back to lane, start shrooming up the lane on your side / along chokepoints (needs pics, i know) and in the brush. you can choose which side you want, though i typically choose bot since its closer to dragon. from then on, try to farm/harass/keep all activity contained to the side on which you have shrooms.
level 7-9: your poison becomes fking OP at this point. 2 hits of your normal attack should do more damage than a full spell combo (excluding ulti) by most APs. start shrooming up the dragon area in preparation for a fight.
levels 10-16: same thing, keep dragon / your side shroomed. begin shrooming baron once you feel both sides are able to get it
random tips: -W when you're moving across long distances (like from base back to lane / across lanes) -shroom in brushes when they have oracles -try to make sure shrooms have a minimum distance of ~500 from each other. this ensures that if one guy activates both, the overlapping duration is reduced and you get more dmg to that one single person
Interesting guide... seems hella trolly, but that's what teemo does.
I've got some questions bout summoner spells and runes, why heal/ignite? Just for the trolliness of heal? Any thoughts on that new surge spell, I've never used it and dont know the numbers, but iirc it gives attack speed and AP... sounds pretty decent for an onhit teemo build. As for runes, why armor yellows as opposed to HP/lvl yellows (Which would give you more EHP against Magic damage - which you're expecting to face a bunch of in mid lane).
heal lets you overextend and possibly 1v2 junglers, cant replace. also punishes mid laners who dont take ignite
ignite is debatable, ghost/exhaust/cleanse and maybe surge could possibly be used. i choose ignite because exhaust was nerfed a while back and ignite now gives 5 ad and 5 ap on cooldown which is fucking gay. and also ignite+hit+q is so much damage especially if the guy steps on a shroom. ignite also helps negate heals which kinda screw with teemo's whole poison-to-death plan
i've tried hp/lvl yellows but they take kinda long to go online and dont give me noticably much more effectiveness against mages than i already have from the blues+quints+mercs+wits so im abandoning them. armor gives me a bit of an out against physical junglers and also reduces creep harass damage (which i will be taking quite a bit of).
And yeah nyx, bruiser Teemo best Teemo. AS/AD is good if you can carry, but running in, getting focused, and still not dying while poisoning everything is just too fun.
Running in isn't really how teemo does business, even with a bruiser build it's still better to kite (which can still occur while chasing, courtesy of mallet and movequick).
But yeah, AS on hit build is def the way to go. Wits end, wriggles, mallet, MBR all work really well in certain situations.
Never tried rageblade... it sounds fun tho, as I'm constantly AA-ing with him anyway. Maybe even gunblade for super trolling.
wits end is just ridiculous for a solo mid hero. so much survivability and damage for so cheap. makes me wanna try it on more heroes (solo mid cait with wits end? l0l)
Because lately I've been opening D-ring for some early lane presence and the mana regen is really nice for poking with your Q.
Recently I have been trying an uber AP build, that opens Malady into Nashors tooth, into WOTA. I know it sounds crazy, but the lifesteal allows you to lay super shrooms ad farm entire waves for health gold and EXP. very useful mid-late game.
And I have some more questions: Does his E qualify for Spell Vamp? And which boots are better for an AP teemo?
AP Teemo, what up? Where do you guys draw the line between straight AP, and going for CDR. I always find myself drawn to aiming for 40% cdr, just cause I like quantity over quality.
can someone detail me on how teemo v nidalee is supposed to play out? i feel like they're both early-game champs that trail off in the mid and lategame, but neither can really push the other out of lane once either has wriggles. pre-wriggles might be iffy for teemo but i don't feel like it's impossible. and they both kinda do nothing after laning except push so is either an acceptable "counterpick" to the other?
I think nidalee can outplay teemo early in lane but at the same time risks getting pushed in too hard if harassing and lane control aren't balanced well. I would like to think teemo wins in the midgame if he's aggressive and wards correctly. His damage scales a bit better than nidalee's in the midgame and he can kite just as well as nidalee can pounce. And blinding dart OP. After that both are probably too tanky to kill each other and it becomes a farm off... without ganking of course
Let's say I have my "core" of: Wriggles, Mercs, Wits End, FM, Atmas...
I now have 5/6 slots filled and 10k gold. What do I do?
Obvious change: Wriggles -> BT.
What else? What's my 6th item? When does it make sense to get LW/Voidstaff and which increases my dps the most when? =S
Let's say I'm sitting on BT, Mercs, Wits, FM, Atmas, LW. That wits end is not a slot effective item atm. Sub it with Bloodrazor? Did it then make sense to have built a LW or should it be a Voidstaff now?
Personally I go a more magic dmg build, malady + wits + MBR, and then a late voidstaff if needed.
Assuming you want to keep your build the same, wriggles into BT makes sense, as does wits into MBR. then potentially mercs for PD (maybe even PD for your wits?). LW makes sense in your build, but I'm not sure if your build is optimal anyway.
I dunno, I'm just so used to building Teemo with on hit magic damage items. Not really sure what to make of a more AD build. I feel like magic on hit dmg synergizes with his kit better (AP from malady increases skill damage, late voidstaff provides pen for all of your damage).
There's really two ways to build Teemo lategame. You can keep building AD, things like black cleaver are especially scary on him, but you're only going to be good at bursting carries. But if you're sticking with on-hit, a late MBR followed by voidstaff is how you keep all your procs relevant. Wits, MBR, and voidstaff makes Teemo the tank melter.
On February 28 2012 04:00 Offhand wrote: There's really two ways to build Teemo lategame. You can keep building AD, things like black cleaver are especially scary on him, but you're only going to be good at bursting carries. But if you're sticking with on-hit, a late MBR followed by voidstaff is how you keep all your procs relevant. Wits, MBR, and voidstaff makes Teemo the tank melter.
So what you're saying is that I should end up with:
a) Mercs, BT, FM, Atmas, LW and... what instead of Wits? PD? ... or
On February 28 2012 04:00 Offhand wrote: There's really two ways to build Teemo lategame. You can keep building AD, things like black cleaver are especially scary on him, but you're only going to be good at bursting carries. But if you're sticking with on-hit, a late MBR followed by voidstaff is how you keep all your procs relevant. Wits, MBR, and voidstaff makes Teemo the tank melter.
So what you're saying is that I should end up with:
a) Mercs, BT, FM, Atmas, LW and... what instead of Wits? PD? ... or
b) Mercs, Wits, MBR, Void, FM, Atmas?
That would make sense.
I disagree strongly.
Neither of these builds have wriggle's, which is essentially core on Teemo.
On February 28 2012 04:46 r.Evo wrote: As I said above, I'm asking for uberlategame.
You'd still keep Wriggles when you're at 6 items with 5k+ gold left?
games like these are a myth as far as I'm concerned. You could replace it with Bloodthirster if you really wanted to, idc about how you spend your 15K-20K gold.
On February 28 2012 03:12 r.Evo wrote: Question about Teemos items lategame.
Let's say I have my "core" of: Wriggles, Mercs, Wits End, FM, Atmas...
I now have 5/6 slots filled and 10k gold. What do I do?
Obvious change: Wriggles -> BT.
What else? What's my 6th item? When does it make sense to get LW/Voidstaff and which increases my dps the most when? =S
Let's say I'm sitting on BT, Mercs, Wits, FM, Atmas, LW. That wits end is not a slot effective item atm. Sub it with Bloodrazor? Did it then make sense to have built a LW or should it be a Voidstaff now?
I don't think going Atma on Teemo is a good idea, a MBR should be way more useful if the enemy team get multi Warmog which I think they are. And Teemo with BT, FM, Wits will crush any AD carry in no time. Your 6th item should be an surviving item like an Angel Guardian or a Banshee depending on the enemy team.
I think high elo/pro should try teemo up top more if they pick a really tanky jungler. What do you guys think of that?
On February 28 2012 04:46 r.Evo wrote: As I said above, I'm asking for uberlategame.
You'd still keep Wriggles when you're at 6 items with 5k+ gold left?
games like these are a myth as far as I'm concerned. You could replace it with Bloodthirster if you really wanted to, idc about how you spend your 15K-20K gold.
dno, I asked because once I sit on Wriggles/Boots/Wits/FM/Atmas I have no clue what to get next. =P
On February 28 2012 04:46 r.Evo wrote: As I said above, I'm asking for uberlategame.
You'd still keep Wriggles when you're at 6 items with 5k+ gold left?
games like these are a myth as far as I'm concerned. You could replace it with Bloodthirster if you really wanted to, idc about how you spend your 15K-20K gold.
dno, I asked because once I sit on Wriggles/Boots/Wits/FM/Atmas I have no clue what to get next. =P
GA, Banshee's or Omen. Defensive options are good on teemo. I would also say that if you're doing atma's, you should do PD and not Wit's End. Wit's doesn't really play very well with sources of AD/Crit.
On February 28 2012 04:46 r.Evo wrote: As I said above, I'm asking for uberlategame.
You'd still keep Wriggles when you're at 6 items with 5k+ gold left?
games like these are a myth as far as I'm concerned. You could replace it with Bloodthirster if you really wanted to, idc about how you spend your 15K-20K gold.
dno, I asked because once I sit on Wriggles/Boots/Wits/FM/Atmas I have no clue what to get next. =P
GA, Banshee's or Omen. Defensive options are good on teemo. I would also say that if you're doing atma's, you should do PD and not Wit's End. Wit's doesn't really play very well with sources of AD/Crit.
Gotcha, those were the answers i was looking for. <3
Have the patch notes been released (the upcoming patch where wriggles is scheduled to be nerfed)? If so, post the parts relevant to teemo. If not, wait until the notes are released, or better yet, people have a chance to try it out first hand.
I just thought I'd let people know that there is an additional bug with Teemo.
Teemo shrooms are currently bugged. Skilling it up, getting blue buff, and itemizing CDR do not affect shroom CD. Masteries do. IDK about runes. I only just submitted a report to Riot and afaik they don't know about it.
Playing lots of Teemo in normals post buff to try to get used to him again. The buff is noticeable, to say the least, although I've barely played Teemo since my account hit 30 in like September.
My current plan is to build anything on him, tailored completely to the other team. I seriously can't determine any necessary items on him other than mercs. I mean, there's a huge list of viable items but none of them need to happen on Teemo to specifically make your early-mid game work.
Maw of Mal is absolutely absurd. Gonna start building this thing on other champs.
been playing a lot of teemo lately. freakin love the little guy but i have a couple of questions.
1: after reading through thread, it seems almost nobody is advocating malady on teemo. why is that? with nerf to wriggles and buffs to poison, i feel like i would rather get malady + pots into wits and be really aggressive against who i'm laning against rather than getting wriggles to wits and only harrass when they get to close. especially against people who get ninja tabi.
2: a lot of times when i go teemo early pick, people have been getting riven. and i've destroyed all of them (in lane at least). is riven supposed to do well against teemo and i'm just playing against bad rivens? i feel like teemo should destroy her, but maybe i'm missing something
3: fuck yorick
4: fuck swain
5: in teamfights, is it more important to blind their ad range or blind their bruiser going after my ad ranged. i've tried focusing one or the other many fights, but i can't really determine which contributes more.
On April 27 2012 06:52 goldenkrnboi wrote: been playing a lot of teemo lately. freakin love the little guy but i have a couple of questions.
1: after reading through thread, it seems almost nobody is advocating malady on teemo. why is that? with nerf to wriggles and buffs to poison, i feel like i would rather get malady + pots into wits and be really aggressive against who i'm laning against rather than getting wriggles to wits and only harrass when they get to close. especially against people who get ninja tabi.
2: a lot of times when i go teemo early pick, people have been getting riven. and i've destroyed all of them (in lane at least). is riven supposed to do well against teemo and i'm just playing against bad rivens? i feel like teemo should destroy her, but maybe i'm missing something
3: fuck yorick
4: fuck swain
5: in teamfights, is it more important to blind their ad range or blind their bruiser going after my ad ranged. i've tried focusing one or the other many fights, but i can't really determine which contributes more.
1. Malady is pretty damn good on Teemo and synergizes very well. I actually it's such a niche item that I'd only get it on Teemo. It's akin to Sunfire:Malphite to me at this point. Wit's End is nice but do you really need the MR in lane, esp Top? I'm all for more Maladies on Teemo.
2. Teemo vs Riven is rather skill based. At first glance, you may make the assumption that Riven loses hard because Teemo is ranged. But EQQQ, Riven closes in fast (even if Teemo uses Move Quick) and can deal a lot of damage. Key thing for Teemo is knowing when to Blind. If you can't escape, minimize the damage you take from her autos. 60/40 in favor of Teemo during laning imo.
3. l0l, Teemo user complaining
4. l0l, Teemo user complaining
I laugh mostly because Teemo hard counters just about 95%+ of all the bruisers that traditionally goes Top.
5. Blind the ranged AD, always. Auto whoever your team is focusing down. Obviously prioritize squishies but team focus fire trumps that.
On April 27 2012 07:28 Alaric wrote: Does Swain really beat Teemo? I thought move-quick + range was enough to avoid eating a Q, then no W in your face either.
It's not the Q, it's the level 2-3 E during lane. By 6, Swain can even purposely walk into shrooms and heal off the damage. Teemo has to get Vamp Scepter early to be able to counter sustain.
This is of course talking about AD Teemo. AP Teemo can fare a little better vs a Swain, poke for poke.
What do you do as teemo when irelia/jax/renekton/pantheon jump and stun you. Teemo's blind only lasts 1.5 second. You just stand and trade in minions because the call for help should generate on their melee minons too? lee sin and riven would probably be strong if riven could get to teemo or if teemo stayed to fight lee sin.
I remember seeing wickd getting counter picked as irelia and every time he jumped and stunned teemo, teemo would lose half his life before having to get out.
My opinion of teemo. Innately squishy champion with low range and no instantaneous escape or stealth to back it up. I don't even think he's as good of a laner as people say. I never see people do well against equal level opponents on stream. At least his ult is good. It always pisses me off.
LOL this new teemo is way too strong. Been going malady, rageblade, zerks, Dcap. Pretty funny stuff.
So many options with him too. I feel like the shredder builds similar to kayle are really good, but I think any AP with some AS is good too, and I still have friends who swear by AD teemo but I can't seem to force myself to give up Supashrooms
On April 27 2012 06:52 goldenkrnboi wrote: been playing a lot of teemo lately. freakin love the little guy but i have a couple of questions.
1: after reading through thread, it seems almost nobody is advocating malady on teemo. why is that? with nerf to wriggles and buffs to poison, i feel like i would rather get malady + pots into wits and be really aggressive against who i'm laning against rather than getting wriggles to wits and only harrass when they get to close. especially against people who get ninja tabi.
2: a lot of times when i go teemo early pick, people have been getting riven. and i've destroyed all of them (in lane at least). is riven supposed to do well against teemo and i'm just playing against bad rivens? i feel like teemo should destroy her, but maybe i'm missing something
3: fuck yorick
4: fuck swain
5: in teamfights, is it more important to blind their ad range or blind their bruiser going after my ad ranged. i've tried focusing one or the other many fights, but i can't really determine which contributes more.
1. Malady is pretty damn good on Teemo and synergizes very well. I actually it's such a niche item that I'd only get it on Teemo. It's akin to Sunfire:Malphite to me at this point. Wit's End is nice but do you really need the MR in lane, esp Top? I'm all for more Maladies on Teemo.
2. Teemo vs Riven is rather skill based. At first glance, you may make the assumption that Riven loses hard because Teemo is ranged. But EQQQ, Riven closes in fast (even if Teemo uses Move Quick) and can deal a lot of damage. Key thing for Teemo is knowing when to Blind. If you can't escape, minimize the damage you take from her autos. 60/40 in favor of Teemo during laning imo.
3. l0l, Teemo user complaining
4. l0l, Teemo user complaining
I laugh mostly because Teemo hard counters just about 95%+ of all the bruisers that traditionally goes Top.
5. Blind the ranged AD, always. Auto whoever your team is focusing down. Obviously prioritize squishies but team focus fire trumps that.
1: i always get wit's end for several reasons. 1) i'm pretty sure malady effect doesn't stack :O 2) 42 straight up magic damage per hit. with max malady stacks that's 66 extra damage per hit. 3) in case mid is feeding lol. my typical order is cloth->ninja->0-2 dblades->malady->wit's->mallet->bloodrazor->whatever i need. against magic damage boots->merc treads-> wit's->0-2 dblades->malady/mallet -> mallet/malady ->bloodrazor->whatever i need as i mentioned, i really don't like wriggles on teemo. he does too little initial damage for the lifesteal to do a whole lot. plus he gets free wards from his ult.
2:her stun and q does do a bit of damage, but i feel like the majority of her damage comes from her boosted autos. i feel like as long as you blind her as soon as she gets in range for her autos and use move quick as soon as she stuns you, you should be able to get away once blind wears off and deal equal or more damage to her in the process
i think another big point is that you shouldn't try and go out of your way to harass whoever you're laning against. whether it be riven or anybody. what i mean is that if you're continually going into their creepwave to try and get a poison off, you're doing it wrong, that's what gets you in range for stuff like riven's combo and jungle ganks. what you should be doing is staying at the max distance that they can reach a minion, so you can effectively poison them as soon as they try to go for that cs. and maintain your distance for your already limited range.
3: >:[ 4: >:[ also add olaf to the fuck you list. though not as difficult as yorick or swain. but still. and yeah. as mentioned, swain is a bitch because his lvl 2-3 dot outdoes yours. and by the time you get aspd and lvl 4-5 poison, he has his bullshit crows that just negates your dot. and if he's on blue side and he gets blue. lol fucking gg. hate that bullshit.
5: i intially thought so too, but i feel like with teemo's low range, you get yourself way too out of position to make the ad range your primary blind target. on the other hand if you stay with your ad range and their bruiser jumps on top of him/her, you can blind him and then shred that mofo with your ad range in a somewhat comfortable position.
On April 27 2012 07:54 obesechicken13 wrote: What do you do as teemo when irelia/jax/renekton/pantheon jump and stun you. Teemo's blind only lasts 1.5 second. You just stand and trade in minions because the call for help should generate on their melee minons too? lee sin and riven would probably be strong if riven could get to teemo or if teemo stayed to fight lee sin.
I remember seeing wickd getting counter picked as irelia and every time he jumped and stunned teemo, teemo would lose half his life before having to get out.
My opinion of teemo. Innately squishy champion with low range and no instantaneous escape or stealth to back it up. I don't even think he's as good of a laner as people say. I never see people do well against equal level opponents on stream. At least his ult is good. It always pisses me off.
for everybody you mentioned except pantheon, there's a small timing window between when they jump and when they stun you. irelia's is a little hard because her jump is pretty instantaneous, but it's there. if you can blind during that small window, then you'll be able to escape those 1 or 2 hits after the stun and then a-move quick away/harass the fuck out of them as they turn around.
pantheon on the other hand is a little tricky because his jump and stun are at the same time. there's that and once his e get s leveled up it actually hurts quite a bit, and it goes through blind. then there's his bread and butter q that goes through blind as well. that's why for me pantheon is a soft counter to teemo, it mostly depends on how pantheon plays. teemo can definitely make it work, but it's harder than most bruiser tops. then again i love mantheon and know how hard he hits. <3
my opinion: blind. blindblindblindblindblindblind. blind the fuck out of everybody.
On April 27 2012 07:59 Juddas wrote: LOL this new teemo is way too strong. Been going malady, rageblade, zerks, Dcap. Pretty funny stuff.
So many options with him too. I feel like the shredder builds similar to kayle are really good, but I think any AP with some AS is good too, and I still have friends who swear by AD teemo but I can't seem to force myself to give up Supashrooms
If you're going to build AP teemo, get a void staff. Mpen on all your procs > AP ratio on your passive.
All my recent forrays into Teemo have been like, boots -> zerker's -> 2 dblades -> malady or wit's -> phage -> zeal -> PD + Mallet -> Bloodthirster. I feel like a raging hypocrite building these stupid items because the build has terrible internal synergy, but it always seems to work out so... oh well :p.
On May 02 2012 07:39 Bladeorade wrote: Just played teemo for the first time ever in ranked. Started off 1/4/1, got Fmallet, Atmas, Wits and ended up going 8/5/15 lol
Actually a pretty fun champ. Though his voice...Gawd
In time, you will learn that even the Teemo players hate Teemo.
Okay, I have a question. How does Teemo do damage?
I know you build on-hit items like Maladys or Wit's, but how does that damage? Because when I see Teemo's, they are ripping up tanks somehow. And on-hit damage is like certain magic damage on-hit. But tanks have massive magic resist. I think his E is also magic damage? Anyway, how does he shred beefy champs with simply on-hit items?
Malady is a magic resist shred. His E, Wits, and MBR all add magic damage, and he also does physical damage. The dual nature of the damage from this build is what makes it effective against tanks.
On May 02 2012 17:11 stormtemplar wrote: How the hell do you lane VS AP WW? I couldn't seem to hurt him and he could always harass me
stop being bad? I dunno man, there's really no reason WW should ever be able to get close enough to Q you, so you just molest him, it's a slam dunk matchup.
I just started playing LoL again (I think I'm only level 11 or 12 atm), and I was wondering if this is a good build guide for Teemo : http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=658&page=0#comments . I'm asking because it says that it was updated 78 days ago, and I don't know if any major changes happened to Teemo since that time. Also, where would you recommend I play? My friend told me that playing top with Teemo is best but upon joining a game they told me to play mid.
Thanks in advance (and sorry for being such a noob ).
I just started playing LoL again (I think I'm only level 11 or 12 atm), and I was wondering if this is a good build guide for Teemo : http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=658&page=0#comments . I'm asking because it says that it was updated 78 days ago, and I don't know if any major changes happened to Teemo since that time. Also, where would you recommend I play? My friend told me that playing top with Teemo is best but upon joining a game they told me to play mid.
Thanks in advance (and sorry for being such a noob ).
In general, Teemo is played top, because he is very good at kiting Bruisers without gap closers and also has a blind. However, Teemo can also do very well against certain champs at mid (Karthus specifically comes to mind, perhaps Ziggs as well) who rely on skillshots, because as long as you dodge their spells, you can attack them freely while their spells are on CD. The build for teem hasn't really changed.
I just started playing LoL again (I think I'm only level 11 or 12 atm), and I was wondering if this is a good build guide for Teemo : http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=658&page=0#comments . I'm asking because it says that it was updated 78 days ago, and I don't know if any major changes happened to Teemo since that time. Also, where would you recommend I play? My friend told me that playing top with Teemo is best but upon joining a game they told me to play mid.
Thanks in advance (and sorry for being such a noob ).
I honestly really don't like Rainmain's guide.
I've been running this spec:
21/0/9 Flash/Ignite AS Marks, Armor Seals, MRes/Level Glyphs, MS Quints vs. Bruisers OR AS Marks, Armor Seals, Flat MRes Glyphs, Flat MRes Quints vs. AP Counterpicks
Open Boots + 3 Pots -> Zerker's Greaves + 2 Dblades core From there, I aim for Malady or Wit's End depending on how high my opponent's MRes is (Malady vs. low MRes, Wit's vs. high MRes) or Wriggle's Lantern if I'm really struggling vs. a physical Damage Dealer. After that, I aim for Phage + Zeal and shoot for a late game core of Frozen Mallet + Phantom Dancer + Bloodthirster (no wriggles) or IE (wriggle's) (typically I sit on something like Malady + Wit's End + Phage + Zeal + Vamp Scepter and then go for Mallet -> BT -> PD, or I'm on Wriggle's + Wit's + Phage + Zeal -> BF Sword -> IE -> PD -> Mallet).
anyone like to play delicious support teemo? The first time I did was because our support was trolling and picked top super fast, so me, not wanting to lose, took exhaust and flash right quick and used my support masteries. Well my lane buddy was a trist, and we were vs. ali and vayne i think. Anyways, I maxed E and poked all the time. Vayne could not CS. Every time she poked back I obviously blinded and it was just not even fair. The trist already does crazy harass plus my E and they couldn't even stay in lane. Once I hit 6, I shroomed the river and went back to pick up the rest of my philo.
Then, I just perma warded for the rest of laning, trist got 5 kills from them being so low all the time, and she had 45 CS advantage. It was crazy. Well then I get the sweet idea to run 4 GP5 because they are all so good on him and the gold just flowed in and it was wonderful. From then on I just played like a normal support with lots f harass and perma wards and we dominated that game. I really think people underestimate his power as a support
On May 23 2012 11:31 Juddas wrote: anyone like to play delicious support teemo? The first time I did was because our support was trolling and picked top super fast, so me, not wanting to lose, took exhaust and flash right quick and used my support masteries. Well my lane buddy was a trist, and we were vs. ali and vayne i think. Anyways, I maxed E and poked all the time. Vayne could not CS. Every time she poked back I obviously blinded and it was just not even fair. The trist already does crazy harass plus my E and they couldn't even stay in lane. Once I hit 6, I shroomed the river and went back to pick up the rest of my philo.
Then, I just perma warded for the rest of laning, trist got 5 kills from them being so low all the time, and she had 45 CS advantage. It was crazy. Well then I get the sweet idea to run 4 GP5 because they are all so good on him and the gold just flowed in and it was wonderful. From then on I just played like a normal support with lots f harass and perma wards and we dominated that game. I really think people underestimate his power as a support
Well there's a lot of potential supports that can deal damage without taking any in return. I've done support teemo, but when things don't go your way you're less useful than other goldless champions like yorick or janna.
teemo can also beat Darius, something that i found SO entertaining when i challenged my friend to a 1v1 to show him that darius wasnt totally op. God it was satisfying watching him completely unable to do anything the entire game
Teemo DESTROYS Darius as he's the exact kind of bruiser you want to go up against. He has no hard CC, and you can mitigate the majority of his combo with blind (get pulled into range, blind, shroom because you're standing on top of Darius). You don't even need to build armor against him, so you can open with better items like wit's end instead of the standard taibi/wriggles to get vs big AD lanes.
On June 23 2012 02:39 Mogwai wrote: shoot her and blind her?
I dunno, I never see Fiora picks, but it seems like it should be easy to me.
I blind her but after that she just owns me TT
Blind when she uses Q, keep shooting for blind duration, activate W after blind duration, kite backwards, shoot her on the way out. Seems simple and easy to me. Use mushrooms in lane to set up peeling points when she looks to chase you.
I harassed her, then she used her dash and attacked me. I blinded her, shot and tried to run away. It was good till she got ult. When she got ult she just owned me TT
On June 23 2012 04:46 Mogwai wrote: but when she has ult, you have ult, meaning it should be really easy to put her ontop of mushrooms and destroy her if she tries to get on top of you.
maybe just need more practice. What skills are you leveling?
stack the mushrooms? if you run over 3 at once do you get 3 times the damage?
On June 23 2012 04:46 Mogwai wrote: but when she has ult, you have ult, meaning it should be really easy to put her ontop of mushrooms and destroy her if she tries to get on top of you.
maybe just need more practice. What skills are you leveling?
stack the mushrooms? if you run over 3 at once do you get 3 times the damage?
I go E > Q > E > W then R > E > Q > W pretty much all the time on Teemo. There's a few match ups were you might benefit from an earlier point in move quick but YMMV.
Shrooms do not stack damage. Running over two at once doesn't do any bonus damage. Running over two shrooms back to back will refresh the dot duration.
Can anyone put into a comprehensive explanation of why teemo counters darius? Because while I know that he does from experience, I'm having trouble articulating it to my friends. ty >.<
Why would anyone play teemo solo top? he is so squishy, and his mushrooms are better on bot (to control the dragon). He is better of harassing and being a dick than open 1v1 fight.
On June 28 2012 14:21 bokeevboke wrote: Why would anyone play teemo solo top? he is so squishy, and his mushrooms are better on bot (to control the dragon). He is better of harassing and being a dick than open 1v1 fight.
There's more to top lane than right-clicking the enemy laner, surprisingly. You think that Teemo doesn't harass when he's top lane? His poison does massive damage from range and very few people can force him to fight because he's so damn fast.
On June 28 2012 14:21 bokeevboke wrote: Why would anyone play teemo solo top? he is so squishy, and his mushrooms are better on bot (to control the dragon). He is better of harassing and being a dick than open 1v1 fight.
because he destroys every melee bruiser top. Will write more later now iam watching spain portugal^^
On June 28 2012 14:21 bokeevboke wrote: Why would anyone play teemo solo top? he is so squishy, and his mushrooms are better on bot (to control the dragon). He is better of harassing and being a dick than open 1v1 fight.
Not to mention that you build him rather tanky.
Wriggles/Phage/Wits/Frozen Mallet makes for one tough yordle.
On June 28 2012 14:21 bokeevboke wrote: Why would anyone play teemo solo top? he is so squishy, and his mushrooms are better on bot (to control the dragon). He is better of harassing and being a dick than open 1v1 fight.
Because he doesn't have great scaling, he has short range and no steroid.
Blind is great but in a team fight when you have more than one person trying to jump you blind isn't that good :/ .
The thing that is important you dont go in a direct 1v1 fight.
you try to harass them in lane and if you get jumped on/grabbed you shroom the enemy and blind him. While the blind duration you attack and after that you run away and kite them with the occasional shrooming. When they stop the chase you chase them down.
Look at it from the other perspective. Teemo's actually really annoying to lane against in top as an AD bruiser. His Q nullifies as many as 2-3 autoattacks on him, and his E deals more damage than you'd expect.
Even if you manage to catch a Teemo, his W and shrooms if he's past level six still give him a good chance to get out. He's squishy as hell, but that's because he has a lot of options.
Been playing him a lot in ranked, he is pretty much ungankable 6 and beyond, his early game is strong, his mid game excellent and his late game isn't the best but his split pushing is superb, and he has decent damage and durability with a proper 6 items.
Played vs Darius (Easy win), Jax (Easy win but the guy was lagging so still a bit unsure) and Singed (ROFL) so far.
He is the most annoying champion to lane against - even worse than singed - but except for the split pushing, he's almost completely useless in lategame. You need a very tanky jungler to compensate for his relative squishyness or you'll lose any teamfight.
If you want to play to have a good laugh and annoy the heck out of your lane opponent, play Teemo, he's great for that. If you want to play to win, either play a d*mn good Teemo and split push all the time while hoping your team doesn't get caught 4v5 or pick one of the more standard bruisers/tanks.
Whenever there is a Teemo in the enemy team my most used phrase for that game is "F****ING MUSHROOMS!". I think i'm not alone with that.
On June 23 2012 04:46 Mogwai wrote: but when she has ult, you have ult, meaning it should be really easy to put her ontop of mushrooms and destroy her if she tries to get on top of you.
maybe just need more practice. What skills are you leveling?
stack the mushrooms? if you run over 3 at once do you get 3 times the damage?
I go E > Q > E > W then R > E > Q > W pretty much all the time on Teemo. There's a few match ups were you might benefit from an earlier point in move quick but YMMV.
Shrooms do not stack damage. Running over two at once doesn't do any bonus damage. Running over two shrooms back to back will refresh the dot duration.
huh. I've always maxed W over Q. I go R>E>W>Q. The blind duration increase on Q per level is quite small, only .25 seconds, and lvl 1 blind lasts 1.5 seconds, which is more than enough. The damage increase is nice I suppose but you're not really using Q for damage. On the other hand, W increases by 4% per level and lets you kite melees soooo much better.
I also like to just push hard all day long and that extra movespeed lets me escape ganks almost 100% of the time with good shroom coverage.
I got to thinking maybe instead of getting wriggles on teemo he could get a cutlass and then later turn it into a gunblade to take advantage of his increased ap scaling while also improving on his godlike kiting.
Cutlass is already a pretty strong alternative to wriggles. Gunblade seems kinda trollish but the AP ratio on him is actually godo enough now that it's... 40+0.4*75 = +70 damage in addition to the lifesteal/vamp and nifty active. And that's before the poison ticks (another 7.5 damage to that portion)
I got to thinking maybe instead of getting wriggles on teemo he could get a cutlass and then later turn it into a gunblade to take advantage of his increased ap scaling while also improving on his godlike kiting.
not a bad idea might try it when I get to play teemo again. Personally I think building teemo tanky is stupid then there is the question why teemo and not sth else? But you can build teemo dmg! Not pure dmg ofc you might need mallet or sth in lane but afterwards you can go PD IE and still do quite a bit of dmg.
On August 18 2012 00:47 Leonite7 wrote: I got to thinking maybe instead of getting wriggles on teemo he could get a cutlass and then later turn it into a gunblade to take advantage of his increased ap scaling while also improving on his godlike kiting.
Funnest thing about gunblade teemo is the possibility of getting a clutch heal from a group of enemy minions walking over a mushroom. Too bad the E poison doesn't proc spellvamp.
On August 18 2012 00:47 Leonite7 wrote: I got to thinking maybe instead of getting wriggles on teemo he could get a cutlass and then later turn it into a gunblade to take advantage of his increased ap scaling while also improving on his godlike kiting.
Funnest thing about gunblade teemo is the possibility of getting a clutch heal from a group of enemy minions walking over a mushroom. Too bad the E poison doesn't proc spellvamp.
If passive poison proc'd spell vamp then gunblade would be a core item in every single teemo build ez and be his best weapon. It still might be better now with the changes with the ap ratio on his E.
came here to say I just fucking love teemo. My all time favorite + most played champion at ranked. Also, I really wish stacking mushrooms did more damage.... once I stacked about 25 mushrooms in one spot, hoping it would one-shot the champion. Nope :/
I'm gonna go play some teemo. Need to try ranged tops other than kayle. I'm definitely going bruiser.
He gains 45 damage per level on Q. His E gains about 10 damage straight up but at 1.0 aspd it looks like he gets a proc off on his poison every second too. That means E gains 6 damage per second due to poison per level as well. At 45 to 60, teemo only needs 3 attacks to break even.
But I really like teemo's autoQauto combo. Q has great range so it's easy to do. I'll try out maxing both.
On August 18 2012 15:43 schmutttt wrote: Probably my favorite top to play, he is such an arsehole. I do build him tanky though, with such low range I hate having just a mallet to survive.
Who do you think can genuinely beat him top aside from Yorick? I thought Vlad could but Teemos sustained damage is stupid early game.
On August 18 2012 18:51 nyxnyxnyx wrote: vlad cannot beat teemo. in general any wits end champ shuts down vlad
You think too little of Vlad.
I played Teemo as my main champion when I was below level 30. I haven't played him as much since then--I suppose other champions stole my interest, but he will always have a special place in my heart. A couple months ago I went on a tangent with AP Teemo, building Meji's and Lichbane every game. T'was quite funny when a q and auto attack would kill someone from full health or when people would die from solely 'shrooms. The last three games I played with Teemo I went versus Pantheon all three times~ I suppose they though that Panth stood a chance against Teemo because blind didn't block his spells. But cloth 5pot into wriggles and Panth couldn't do anything at all. The little badger will always have a special place in my heart.
On August 18 2012 15:43 schmutttt wrote: Probably my favorite top to play, he is such an arsehole. I do build him tanky though, with such low range I hate having just a mallet to survive.
Who do you think can genuinely beat him top aside from Yorick? I thought Vlad could but Teemos sustained damage is stupid early game.
Darius beats Teemo top fairly consistently from my experience.
On August 18 2012 15:43 schmutttt wrote: Probably my favorite top to play, he is such an arsehole. I do build him tanky though, with such low range I hate having just a mallet to survive.
Who do you think can genuinely beat him top aside from Yorick? I thought Vlad could but Teemos sustained damage is stupid early game.
Darius beats Teemo top fairly consistently from my experience.
I've always found the opposite, if he pulls you QW then poke the shit out of him whilst his pull is on CD, and once you get a phage you destroy him.
On August 18 2012 18:51 nyxnyxnyx wrote: vlad cannot beat teemo. in general any wits end champ shuts down vlad
You think too little of Vlad.
I played Teemo as my main champion when I was below level 30. I haven't played him as much since then--I suppose other champions stole my interest, but he will always have a special place in my heart. A couple months ago I went on a tangent with AP Teemo, building Meji's and Lichbane every game. T'was quite funny when a q and auto attack would kill someone from full health or when people would die from solely 'shrooms. The last three games I played with Teemo I went versus Pantheon all three times~ I suppose they though that Panth stood a chance against Teemo because blind didn't block his spells. But cloth 5pot into wriggles and Panth couldn't do anything at all. The little badger will always have a special place in my heart.
nyxnyxnyx if you have some vod against vlad. I would be interested to see them. I can dominate the lane from the start but after his first back its over for me.
Wow. I just had a straight up fullAP teemo on my team and it was actually scary how much damage he did. No bruiser teemo shit. Straight up AP. Went tabis dorans kages -> rylais -> dfg -> dcap -> nashors. He did really poorly early-midgame but after a certain point, the combination of stupidly high damage shrooms, ridiculously high damage harass meant that he could go toe to toe with anyone and win or at least survive.
I'm gonna be running sheen in the coming week and I wanted to try it out first on teemo. Looks like a good supplement/alternative to malady or stinger or something. Although I also kind of want cata for lane sustain, a later RoA and more mushrooms early-mid game.
A lot of what was holding sheen back was that it was hard to maximize the damage of its procs. The change is probably good.
On August 19 2012 16:10 Lmui wrote: Wow. I just had a straight up fullAP teemo on my team and it was actually scary how much damage he did. No bruiser teemo shit. Straight up AP. Went tabis dorans kages -> rylais -> dfg -> dcap -> nashors. He did really poorly early-midgame but after a certain point, the combination of stupidly high damage shrooms, ridiculously high damage harass meant that he could go toe to toe with anyone and win or at least survive.
Started doing that in normals, and usually go DFG->Nashor's->DCap. Nashors just for teh lulz really, because AP Teemo is a little troll to begin with. E does stupid amounts of damage, the CD on Q is really low and the ratio on both Q and R reasonable. You can't really enter the baron pit unless you have oracles, and you're stupidly safe from ganks with him, too, so playing so squishy really works out. IDK, really fun to play.
On August 19 2012 03:19 Chexx wrote: nyxnyxnyx if you have some vod against vlad. I would be interested to see them. I can dominate the lane from the start but after his first back its over for me.
i dont have vods against vlad but ill try to explain how the matchup goes
vlad really counters melee champs since it gives him a lot more options as to how the lane plays out. against teemo every transfusion vlad takes should be met with at least 1-2 autos/Q which outtrades vlad handily. vlad's W is also not great against teemo since he never gets to utilize the life-vamp portion of it (because you're ranged) and your poisons/ignite continue ticking while he's pooled. depending on who their jungler is, flat MR blues + quints can make it impossible for you to die even with massive overextension.
on your first B you have the option to go double NMM (to be made into merc treads if they have a lot of CC) which rapes vlad since it removes spellvamp as an option for him to remain in lane. if you harrass vlad down but cant find a kill opportunity, you can always farm till 800++ gold then push up and recall, forcing vlad into a lose-lose situation - if he stays and farms that wave you come back with double NMM + pots and win. if he goes home he loses CS at turret anyway. i typically like to go home when i'm 6 unless i'm forced to go home earlier for some reason. recalling at 6 allows that extra mushroom recharge.
when you have wits you win. if he stacks MR you make the NMM into a hexdrinker instead and taunt him in all chat for massive tilt
edit: you need indomitable + minion dmg reduction almost always as teemo. against vlad something like 9/21/0 would be best, taking points in 3hp5, -2 all dmg, -2 minion, 6 MR and movespeed.
I actually played a few games in solo queue with GeneralChicken who ran AP Teemo mid. He runs 21/0/9 masteries as well as MP marks, GP10 seals, MR glyphs and flat AP quints. In game he goes Philo/Kage/HoG then his full build becomes Deathcap/DFG/Zhonyas/Lich/Void/Sorcs (or GA somewhere in there). It does do a lot of damage but the funniest part of the build is when he gets blue buff and proceeds to lay like 25 shrooms across the middle of the map (and baron area). Makes it really easy to force advantageous baron fights.
On August 19 2012 03:19 Chexx wrote: nyxnyxnyx if you have some vod against vlad. I would be interested to see them. I can dominate the lane from the start but after his first back its over for me.
i dont have vods against vlad but ill try to explain how the matchup goes
vlad really counters melee champs since it gives him a lot more options as to how the lane plays out. against teemo every transfusion vlad takes should be met with at least 1-2 autos/Q which outtrades vlad handily. vlad's W is also not great against teemo since he never gets to utilize the life-vamp portion of it (because you're ranged) and your poisons/ignite continue ticking while he's pooled. depending on who their jungler is, flat MR blues + quints can make it impossible for you to die even with massive overextension.
on your first B you have the option to go double NMM (to be made into merc treads if they have a lot of CC) which rapes vlad since it removes spellvamp as an option for him to remain in lane. if you harrass vlad down but cant find a kill opportunity, you can always farm till 800++ gold then push up and recall, forcing vlad into a lose-lose situation - if he stays and farms that wave you come back with double NMM + pots and win. if he goes home he loses CS at turret anyway. i typically like to go home when i'm 6 unless i'm forced to go home earlier for some reason. recalling at 6 allows that extra mushroom recharge.
when you have wits you win. if he stacks MR you make the NMM into a hexdrinker instead and taunt him in all chat for massive tilt
edit: you need indomitable + minion dmg reduction almost always as teemo. against vlad something like 9/21/0 would be best, taking points in 3hp5, -2 all dmg, -2 minion, 6 MR and movespeed.
This is a common misconception. Vlad heals the same amount no matter what MR his target has.
As far as the vlad vs teemo matchup goes, I do think teemo wins it handily, and while I do agree that wit's end is a best first item and can be used to zone vlad, I think teemo gains more from AP items. Like if teemo gets a fully stacked rageblade, then that's 93/2 magic damage from the ap 35 attack damage and 32 attack speed.
All his spells hit harder too.
One of the main selling points of on-hit is that it's magic damage. But now teemo's E has a .4 AP ratio, and a .1 ratio on the poison proc. I don't see the point of building on hit.
Ap teemo is super fun and strong. I go 21/9/0 and use a strange rune set up of mixed flat and level 18 AP with flat armor and mr with level 1 Q+ dorans ring I can do 120 damage to most champions its reallllllly strong with support bot (playing the Ad carry role but being AP) in all honesty AP teemo can do any role and be strong except jungle. xD at least in my opinion
Thing is, a support like Sona could probably harass you out of lane by herself while her AD farms because Teemo's range isn't very good. The burst from your Q really isn't THAT much. Teemo has never been particularly strong bot lane because of his short range and poor performance under harass (top lane, he avoids most harass by virtue of being ranged vs primarily melee opponents.)
And dorans is pretty bad to start - it's just asking to get chipped down quickly by the opposing lane because you have no potions.
I just went 11-3 as Teemo. I think I picked up first blood in an invade though and Rumble top went 9-1 which was even better than my score. I really like AP. 2 of my shrooms could almost kill Caitlyn. She was fed 4-1 early on so she wasn't underleveled. Even if I weren't fed, it'd still only take 3 mushrooms to kill Cait.
He does a lot of magic damage and can abuse many short ranged mids. Also by doing so much magic damage, Teemo can get a lot of kills early game which leads to the enemy team building MR, which actually isn't a big advantage. I really like cleanse on Teemo. Attack speed slows really hurt and cleanse can help you to escape ganks. A big weakness is that since Teemo does so much damage, his team's AD carry may not get as fed and I don't think Teemo scales as well as AD carries. Mid game Teemo's mushrooms can cause lots of mayhem and provide vision and force oracles (which again isn't that bad). If your enemies enter brushes from the front then they'll run into mushrooms even if they have oracles... something that's just a bit broken. He's like a heavy magic damage mid hero who doesn't have the weakness that he's reliant on ults or his enemies grouping up. It's great.
I just found that thread and from what I understood Teemo is actually a solo top champion? I always thought that he is for mid and sometimes even for AD carry (rarely though and maybe for fun), but how come he is solo? aren't the solos suppose to be more tankier assasins who can absorb damage and deal fair amount of it?
Teemo used to be extremely good top. His job top, both then and now, was to dick the enemy top lane super hard, shroom up top lane and enemy topside jungle, solo push all day, and make it easy for his team to do baron. It used to be that Wriggle's gave him (and everyone else) incredible sustain, so he could just abuse his map control and never leave top. Now it's slightly harder for him and he has a few losing matchups, but he still works top. Top lane Teemo is usually build with a combination of tanky and on-hit items, though you can certainly play AP up there.
People have been playing teemo as AP mid a lot since his AP ratio on E got buffed. The on-hit E damage was buffed from 0.14*AP to 0.4*AP (+ a small buff to base damage), and although the DoT was nerfed from 0.14*AP to 0.1*AP per second, it's overall a buff, to the point that AP teemo is simply better than AD or on-hit or hybrid teemo. Comparable damage but AP also buffs his Q and R as well. It doesn't work with crit chance but teemo's range is too low to build glass cannon anyway, leave that to the AD carry.
I'm finding I'm not even building AS early as teemo, since his AS per-level gain is pretty high as it is, you don't have the range to just stand and shoot, and the DoT mechanic of his poison somewhat discourages it as well. My core build looks something like sorcs/lich bane/rylais/deathcap, adding stuff like nashor's for more damage and more mushrooms, or zhonya's/QSS if I feel like my global taunt is too stronk. It's probably not optimal but it feels pretty good atm.
Masteries I go 9/20/1, taking the mpen in offense, the improved recall in utility (teemo's stealth is still bugged with it lol) and heavy in defense, basically the -minion damage and -damage are essential due to how reliant teemo is on autoattacks to harass in lane. S3 masteries will probably hit teemo pretty hard in this respect, no more insane minion mitigation.
On December 04 2012 00:09 Tooplark wrote: Teemo used to be extremely good top. His job top, both then and now, was to dick the enemy top lane super hard, shroom up top lane and enemy topside jungle, solo push all day, and make it easy for his team to do baron. It used to be that Wriggle's gave him (and everyone else) incredible sustain, so he could just abuse his map control and never leave top. Now it's slightly harder for him and he has a few losing matchups, but he still works top. Top lane Teemo is usually build with a combination of tanky and on-hit items, though you can certainly play AP up there.
I've been experimenting with Ionic Spark/Malady/Phage as core. Building FM, Nashor, Rabby's late game, but I think maybe MBR might be better than Rabby's. They're removing Ionic Spark, which blows, but the new Hurricane looks to be really cool for on-hit Teemo
On December 04 2012 06:29 Bladeorade wrote: How would MBR be better than Rabadons?
I was hoping TL would tell me. I have yet to bother getting it, because Rabby's means better shrooms and DoT too, but I see builds with it all over the place.
If I am not mistaken, Riot think Teemo is currently really strong (and probably needs a nerf) - and they were surprised that no one played Teemo at World's.
On December 04 2012 06:55 Sufficiency wrote: If I am not mistaken, Riot think Teemo is currently really strong (and probably needs a nerf) - and they were surprised that no one played Teemo at World's.
By Riot do you mean that one guy from Riot who says a ton of things and who's every word gets posted on Reddit. That's all I remember of talk of him getting nerfed.
He definitely is strong and I'm surprised he wasn't used at worlds. Two autos has at least the AP ratio of a malzahar E. He may just remain a secret and I'm sure many people don't play him because of honor or something. They haven't given their hearts to the scout's code.
What do you guys think about Liandry's on teemo? I've been playing Teemo top recently, and have been going Berserker's Greaves/Nashor's/Liandry's/Death Cap/Void Staff. With the magic penetration from Liandry's and Void Staff plus Liandry's passive, shrooms can do like 1,000 damage, and Q does over 500. Plus, with Ryalai's next, Liandry's passive is doubled on Q as well.
On January 06 2013 06:51 NationInArms wrote: So how do you build Teemo top? Should he be AP or AD or tanky or something else?
AP used to be better before the previous nerf.
Now the ratio is anywhere between .3 and .45 on his E depending on whether you get spell sword or malady. Also a .1 ish ratio on his poison. AP has lower dps than on hit or AD but it raises the damage on his Q and mushrooms the most. Also more of the damage is magic so it's better vs low MR targets.
No AP item will give him more dps than a wits end for its cost so wits I find wins lane harder (useful if you have a hard magic damage lane).
Some people build Teemo with bork, runaan's and mallet for decent AoE dps, and survivability, and a slow.
While you could build Teemo as an AD I find his conditional stealth and blind are not enough to make up for his lack of jumps and his low range. He also lacks AD ratios. Obviously AD will have the highest DPS come late game though so if your team has a bruiser urgot or bruiser/hybrid/ap ezrael then you might want to go AD.
I just tried out Teemo for the first time a couple days ago (I'm a bit late, I know ). Seems like you can build pretty much anything on him to make him strong, but I'm trying to figure out the best hybrid/attack speed + AP build possible - no easy task, as I've come to realize.
First off, I'm having a real hard time deciding between a Malady and Nashor's tooth for my first core item (I've been starting out with dagger + 2 pots btw, is that bad?). Malady scales with AP and has nice MR resist reduction passive, but Nashor's has more AP and CDR. So I think Malady would be better ONLY if you plan on getting a lot of AP along with it, which I'm not sure is worth it at this point? Then there's also Wit's End, which from what I'm reading here gives the most DPS of all of them. So I dunno wtf I should build towards first, and if I should get a second one of these 3 items or not?
It also sounds like phage into frozen mallet is pretty much a must buy - if this is a must buy, then you won't have much money left to buy AP... and AP is very important too since its the only way to raise mushroom and Q damage.
On top of all of these already great item choices, there's also BotRK, Liandry's, and runaans, or even deathcap... WHICH ITEMS TO GET AND IN WHAT ORDER, TOO MANY TO CHOOSE FROM! This literally kept me up last night in bed while trying to sleep, trying to think of the best and most cost efficient way to maximize dps on him... in the end I couldn't even decide on which item to get first :/
One more question, I've been getting sorc shoes after my first core attack speed/AP item, should I be getting berserker's greaves instead? I thought sorc made more sense since I'm already getting attack speed from other items, and the magic pen is badly needed.
What I've tried is berserker's boots, nashor's, death cap, liandry's, void staff. Obviously you're pretty weak in team fights, but your shrooms are doing like 800 damage and your Q does around 600 as well, and with your stealth you can still pop up and take out squishies very quickly. A hurricane can also help out in team fights, as doing only 50% damage with the extra shots doesn't really matter when most of your damage is coming from your E anyways.
GRB is secret op hybrid item, and few things are more frustrating than disables + lifesteal/vamp. However, malady liandry is really really strong, so I would do that first. Then I'd probably get some form of survivability, then maybe GRB. Disclaimer: I haven't actually tried GRB on teemo but it seems pretty strong and puts you around the same gold value as a standard ranged DPS core.
bonus AS is added up, then multiplied off teemo's base AS. depending on how you define 'diminishing return', it could be yes and no.
generally speaking it'd be a no, since AP / MR shred / malady's onhit damage provide 'damage' to work off the increase in AS. however, having high AS would reduce the effectiveness of the DoT component of toxic shot.
TIL - Liandry's does not proc on teemo's E, only on his Q and R, although on his R he gets a new proc for every DoT. Also Rylai's does not proc on teemo's E (it only makes his Q's slow), so it's not a very good substitute for frozen mallet. I assume most of you already knew all of this but I think it's a good FYI for those who don't.
On February 20 2013 15:51 krndandaman wrote: nashors, sorc shoes, death cap, liandrys, voidstaff, filler adjust to other team's comp but this is what I usually get in that order
I pretty much agree with this, have not tried void staff yet though, the +30 mpen from sorcs/liandry's always seems like enough. Botrk and FM could also be good 5th/6th items. Maybe lich bane too once you've got deathcap and liandrys. I think wits end and malady has kind of fallen off the radar for teemos though, too many other good options.
I'm sure it's suboptimal, but I've been doing 9/21/0 (mpen) with either splitpen or mpen marks, armor/mr yellow/blues, and either MS or AP quints all depending on lane.
Core of Nashor's + Liandry's + whatever boots, generally either Tabi or Merc's as I prefer a bit of defense over the Sorc's, though I'd probably sell to get the extra mpen later on if need be. I'll pick up Seeker's/Zhonya if it's a more difficult AD lane and Wit's for AP, but if neither are necessary I go for a DC. I've been considering Rylai's as an item, as it turns your Q into a pretty potent tool, but I've never really gotten that far into a game with Teemo yet.
Of course, if worse comes to worst and I get hard counterpicked or something, I can always switch into Tankmo and go FMallet/BorK :D
Yeah man, that's pretty much my build when I'm not going full-support. His HP still sucks and it's really easy to get blown up, but teemo is still pretty lethal and if I ever need to be the split-push carry I just throw in a hurricane with sorc boots to really lay into them from behind. :D
Teemo with new Nashtor's is such a beast, I just come from a game where I soloed baron 34 minutes in with AP Teemo. The hamster assassin looks quite viable now.
On June 21 2013 00:40 Jek wrote: Teemo with new Nashtor's is such a beast, I just come from a game where I soloed baron 34 minutes in with AP Teemo. The hamster assassin looks quite viable now.
Yeah, I'm seeing him a whole lot more that's for sure and he is pretty beastily as long as you are a really good zoner.
For example saw Darius and was like, okay Teemo owns melee right? But then that didn't really work out. Is it because I suck with Teemo or am I actually godlike but Darius is secret Teemo hardcounter?
Quick search through this thread and couldn't find recent info on matchups besides vlad who I never see
Help pls
Edit: Nvm found a little info was ctrl-fing for the wrong word but still what's the verdict vs common top laners, esp AP ones like Kennen?
Like most ranged tops, Teemo excels in harassing his lane opponent into missing farm, while a well-timed blind lets you deal with many brusery melees.
Example: vs Darius, auto him a bit, if he manages to grab you, you then blind him, hit W, back off and once you have created a gap, harass him even more relentlessly (because he can't grab you anymore) - you really can't sit around and let him hit you - if you do, he'll just dunk you.
He has problems against mages (blind doesn't do anything) and though he can 1v1 another ranged autoattacker, if they have skill combos (eg. Doran's blade kennens) that are more influential to a duel than your blind, then you're in trouble.
Teemo works against darius but you need to not get dunked in an all-in. At 6, you use your shrooms to turn your lane into a permenant 1v1 in a (hopefully) winning matchup.
Pretty sure kennen would walk all over teemo. You can match his autos with your charged W->skills, you actually outrange him a little bit, and you're ALSO a devil rat yordle like he is.
On July 19 2013 03:30 Mauzel wrote: Hey guys 2 questions:
What does Teemo counter / what counters Teemo?
For example saw Darius and was like, okay Teemo owns melee right? But then that didn't really work out. Is it because I suck with Teemo or am I actually godlike but Darius is secret Teemo hardcounter?
Quick search through this thread and couldn't find recent info on matchups besides vlad who I never see
Help pls
Edit: Nvm found a little info was ctrl-fing for the wrong word but still what's the verdict vs common top laners, esp AP ones like Kennen?
darius counters teemo because his pull is the same range as teemos auto (i think)
The problem with Teemo vs Darius is that his grab outranges your auto attacks, and is very close to your Q. You can still beat him though; you can harass him with your Q since it does barely outrange his grab, and you can try to bait out his grab and then harass him while it's on CD. Teemo can do well against melee champions like Darius and Singed as long as you don't make mistakes.
On July 19 2013 13:45 GolemMadness wrote: The problem with Teemo vs Darius is that his grab outranges your auto attacks, and is very close to your Q. You can still beat him though; you can harass him with your Q since it does barely outrange his grab, and you can try to bait out his grab and then harass him while it's on CD. Teemo can do well against melee champions like Darius and Singed as long as you don't make mistakes.
That's basically the common rule of playing teemo top in most matchups. One mistake and you're dead and will probably lose the lane. About what people posted before, I have no idea where you fit nashor in your build. The only way I can see it working is if you absolutely stomp your lane and go full splitpush.
Darius's grab doesn't outrange teemo's auto. 500 AA range vs. 540 spell range. Even with as small as teemo is, you can auto without being in grab range.
I'm not sure exactly, but it's very close. If you're going AP Teemo, why wouldn't you get Nashor's? You obviously don't get it as your first item or anything, but once you have some decent AP, it adds a ton to your autos.
A well played teemo completly crjavascript:addUBB_selected('reply_area',%20'quote')ushes darius (if you make one mistake you are dead though - which is true in a lot of matchups like irelia and others)
You just have to autoattack and dance around his grab range - you can outrun it because of the animation
About what people posted before, I have no idea where you fit nashor in your build. The only way I can see it working is if you absolutely stomp your lane and go full splitpush.
My usual "go to" teemo build is: 2 dorans blades sorc boots morello (rarely athene) nash tooth those 2 can be exchanged possibly also a bit delayed liandries
the last 2 items depend a bit what I want dcap/zhonya/void are the most common items
the 2 massive cdr items and some manaregen from morello are obviously only needed/useful if you do not get the bluebuff - if you get it you can remove any manaregen/additional cdr item from your build
Edit: Nvm found a little info was ctrl-fing for the wrong word but still what's the verdict vs common top laners, esp AP ones like Kennen?
a lot of ranged champs beat teemo like kennen. The one ranged champ I completly stomped was lissandra - not sure if she missplayed or if the matchup really is good. There are some melee champs which can beat teemo - in general champs with great all in which dont depend on autoattacks - like a Jarvan Wukong or Zed. As said before most teemo matchups are really really snowball dependend if you make one mistake you might be fucked and go like 0-5 just because he has xp/gold advantage and can roll you over
Are there any new developments/insights/tips when it comes to playing Teemo?
I've been trying to get the hang of playing him by picking him for a bunch of games in a row and trying different builds than just the typical AP items + liandry's and void staff.
I'd like to figure out how to make botrk+fmallet Teemo (into whatever is appropriate) work, but not much luck so far. Any tips on how the playstyle there differs from the standard AP teemo playstyle? AP Teemo seems to revolve heavily on harrassing your opponent early if possible and relying heavily on shrooms post-6 since you typically lose a hard engage if both of you are full health. Which is great and very effective, but I'd like to learn to play bruiser Teemo, and I see it work fairly regularly for high-elo players, I just haven't figured out when it's more appropriate. (Is it more of a per-matchup thing? Do you just split push more/trade more often?)
One thing I've found very effective vs melee tops that have weak wave clear but strong all-ins (e.g. Jax, Wukong, Darius) is to go MS quints, max W first (W>E>Q), get 3 points in the move speed utility branch (I like 27/0/3) and rush Statikk Shiv. You use the move speed to harrass more frequently and more safely (the move speed *really* helps against Jax in particular), and once Shiv is finished I find that they can't even hold the tower since my power spike exploits both their wave clear and their vulnerability to harrass. (I think this won't do well against reliable engages like Maokai's or high-sustain champs like Vlad, you just don't punish them enough before they all-in or heal up.)
Also, do people still use Nashor's? I've thought of taking the Shiv into a purely split push oriented build with maybe Liandry's and Ruunan's, but I'm actually not sure that it's even worth it, given that building straight AP allows you to push hard as well if you sacrifice shrooms for wave clear. But I'm pretty low elo, so what do I know.
There is an other Teemo thread which is a bit more recent http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/lol-strategy/430843-champion-teemo?page=6 It's still old though because everybody has given up on Teemo since the last mushroom nerf, the champ was already barely viable and he has been more than olaf'd (ap ratio halved + base damage reduced too if I recall correctly). He is without a doubt one if not the weakest champion in the game right now.
Sorry for not giving much advice, the only barely viable build right now is full ad/as splitpush and it only works into lanes you are 100% guaranteed to win (aka not a lot of matchups at the moment LOL). Just do the standard split push stuff, ward their jungle, kite people, push towers when your team is fighting. The only reason this somehow works is because splitpushing is a very strong strategy in solo queue, but you could pick any other splitpushing champion and do better than with teemo (hint : nidalee).
Also don't mix ad/ap builds. Either you go full ap (with nashor if you want to splitpush OR with liandries if you want to teamfight) or full ad/as (splitpush only). I would also never max W ever, max E if you want to have a shot at winning your lane. I will rant again (sorry ) and say I was diamond 1 with teemo S3 but the last shroom nerf really destroyed him.
"already barely viable" "more than olaf'd" "one of the weakest champions in the game" "only barely viable build" "only works into lanes you are 100% guaranteed to win"
I disagree with your statement as well. First of all, with 7% playrate and more than 51% winrate you can not justify your statements, but you are surely the one who should, and not the other way around. You make incorrect statements sound like facts and you'd expect others to defend it? Not cool.
Teemo is very far from being the weakest champion in league, even if we exclude the notoriously volatile Poppy, or the ever so outdated Urgot. Maybe you are one of the Teemo haters and that's why you would like newcomers to think he's not worth to pick up? I dunno, but Teemo is a very strong pick, and I feel like he always has been, at least since I'm playing (Lulu-patch). Not only he is a perfect example for lane counter - meaning that until the champions he counter are played, he can not be unviable -, he has a unique team utility through his shrooms. Even if you go the ad route, it only takes one liandry to make your mushrooms a real son of a bitch.
You can also play him an ap nuker (insane damage, shroom damage is still a joke), ad heavy (for maximum toplane annihilation) or to be a tanky dude, who is hard to kill, but makes you bang your head into the nearest wall with his mallet-botrk build. But I've seen TRM win with seemingly the shittiest Teemo builds (dorans blades into rod of ages into botrk, WTF), so he is one of the few champions you can think when itemizing. Maybe there is a build or two you should highly consider following if you want to be challenger with him asap, but that's about it, nothing like "rush youmu/infi, other shits are not viable".
Do you know who remains the sole champion in the game who has a point and click blind in this adc dominant meta? Teemo, and it has a reasonable range too, so it's not like you will die if you try to blind the enemy adc. Unless it's Trist, but then jokes on you for not banning her.
Now, if you were to say Teemo is one of the worst champions when it comes to unexpected 5v5s, I might agree with you, but AP Teemo would like to disagree, so forget it. I don't see at all how is he even remotely close to being bad. He is hard to play, unlike some faceroll champions like Pantheon or Ryze, but that's about it. I got carried not once by good Teemo players, and I already won many games with a Teemo on my team who was 0-3 or something like that, but managed to come back. On the other hand, I managed to lost because our Nasus thought he will be very good with 900 stacks. Man, I wish we had a Teemo that game who at least splitpushes properly if he's not grouping with us.
So yeah, I don't think you know what olaf'd means, so please, don't throw around the term like being olaf'd is a.) something very common b.) has even remotely relevant when we are discussing Teemo.
As for The Rain Man, I'm not sure what the fuck was he doing on his main account; he was d1/challenger, but started goofing around and I even saw him in d5 a few months ago, but on his The Sun Man account he almost exclusively plays Teemo (d2 90 lp, without giving any fucks lately, he could easily reach d1)), and he had no trouble climbing the ranks with his usual weird ass builds. Ad, as/ad, as/ap, ap, tanky ad, tanky ap, ad/ap, everything, you name it. There were times I literally had to close his stream, because I refused to accept that you can constantly win with the most cancerous builds on this champion.
This champion is fine, and probably the only toxic one (yorick, shaco, poppy, urgot...) who managed to avoid being gutted out.
edit: nevermind, apparently you are not a hater, just bitter he doesn't massacre everyone anymore. gotta love those times...
TRM wins easily with teemo because it is his main champion and if he was playing seriously he wouldn't be diamond 2. I too can play teemo in diamond 2 that doesn't make him a good champ.
His ap build was olafd and that is fact. Just look at the numbers and compare them with any other ap ability nerf (not counting supports because obviously teemo is a damage dealer).
That is why i advise an ad/as splitpush because this one wasn't nerfed that much.
as someone who used to play a lot of teemo in other seasons I agree that he is just incredibly underwhelming at the moment, my statement when the trinkets where first introduced that sweepers are far better to deal with a teemo than oracles I still believe holds true and people got better and more comfortable using trinkets.
And obviously the nerf which just made it way harder for him to lane. In addition to that looking at top lane with the likes of maokai, nidalee, ryze, rumble, gnar etc which all have a very good matchup versus teemo because they have range and/or good sustain. We could also add the rammus/j4 jungles which are popular and hard to deal with as teemo.
So a lot of things which make him way weak(er) than before
Teemo wrecks Maokai, barring serious early ganks. Just don't cast spells. You outrange Q, you can dodge E, and if he Ws onto you you just Q him and fight him.
On October 12 2014 23:33 Tooplark wrote: Teemo wrecks Maokai, barring serious early ganks. Just don't cast spells. You outrange Q, you can dodge E, and if he Ws onto you you just Q him and fight him.
not really. maokai can safely farm under tower and has enough sustain to last the lane. he'll eventually outscale teemo and be able to 1v1 him easy. teemo isn't going to get zoned or anything during laning but its not a matchup I'd particularly pick into.
Maokai's sustain is entirely dependent on casting spells and autoattacking creeps. Teemo doesn't have to cast spells to harass Mao; if Maokai casts spells, Maokai pushes the lane; when Maokai eventually gets 5 stacks on his passive and goes to auto a creep, Teemo can punish him with autos and Q.
Add to this the fact that if the jungler comes teemo won't survive because mao can slow/root him easily. This is the problem with most teemo matchups, 1v1 he's kinda fine (if not vs ranged) but when you add a fucking leesin or khazix things change.
Yeah, krndandaman actually tested it with me yesterday, and our conclusion was that the matchup is probably Teemo-favored, but not as much as I thought. However, we only played one game, and there's a bit of a skill gap between us, so take this with a grain of salt. We both agreed that if there were a jungler, Teemo's life would have been much harder, and even if Teemo does beat Maokai, an underfarmed tree is still useful to his team. So I guess I should make it clear that I'm not advocating Teemo as a counterpick.
RouaF: When you say go full as/split push, does this mean 'bruiser type' BotRK/fmallet build or something even more push-oriented? What would that look like?
I've tried the BotRK/FMallet build a few more times, but really without any luck. I still don't understand how people make it work: BotRK takes so long to build (I'm probably just horrible at farming) that by the time I complete it, and definitely before I complete FMallet, my enemies seem outscale me in one of two ways: The damage to 100-0 me (e.g. Jax/Darius/) if I ever get in range, or they have enough sustain to outtrade me heavily if I get in range (e.g. Ryze/Mao). The AP build deals with this through shroom+Q harrass that gets people low before they get into AA range.
How does one play a bruiser build? Any good examples? Maybe I just don't realize how to kite effectively.
Since BotrK is so expensive to complete, it feels like I miss my chance to punish the opponents pre-6 and around 6-9, while the haunting guise -> liandry's build-up seems a lot smoother (haunting guise seems a lot better than cutlass).
You have to understand that teemo's strength is bullying melees early. The splitpush build works by getting ahead, if you want to splitpush it's obviously way better if you can 1v1 your direct opponent. For this you need to get ahead, in gold but also more importantly in XP ! So the most important thing you should be focusing on is winning your lane hard.
This means either killing your opponent or just making him recall way too often and denying him XP by shoving into his tower while he backs. In the meantime you also need to be taking as much cs as possible, as Teemo you should miss very few of them. I admit that for a beginner this is really hard to do but that's how Teemo plays.
As for the best build I don't know you'd have to look it up on probuilds.net or TRM's stream. I played mainly AP teemo back then. If you want to play ap splitpush (which is kinda meh but you seem more comfortable playing AP) just start doran ring 2 pots -> haunting guise -> sorc shoes -> nashors. Don't forget to buy potions when you have spare money after buying when you back, Teemo has no sustain and he needs to win the lane as said above.
Just updating because for great science I've been playing Teemo on my smurf (smurf mmr is around plat while i'm D1/masters on main). While I don't have too much trouble in lane (expected against weaker opponent) I maintain that ap teemo is really bad because even when you get ahead you don't deal that much damage. The damage output is just overall too low compared to what it should be.
It's sadly true. Teemo was my main before he was even popular in s4 but after the nerfs he is just underwhelming. Even when I get fed it's super hard to actually carry, I'd win games with Zero effort on certain other Champions with the same score.
I hate to say it but teemo is only viable as a niche pick vs some melee carrries and even then he isn't the best pick for the job. By playing heimerdinger top you get everything teemo has combined with more damage and cc, pick that guy if you want an ap splitpusher with objective control
On October 28 2014 10:25 GolemMadness wrote: Irelia is definitely not a counter to Tryndamere...
Skill matchup but Tryndamere will outscale in 1v1 duels eventually. Irelia much more useful in teamfights with that wtf-forever stun though.
at no point does tryndamere ever outscale teemo. unless you're getting 50 cs per 10, or letting him go even. The best i've seen a tryndamere do vs my teemo was to literally abandon lane, and gank bottom 4v2 with his jungler several times. they'd get a double kill + dragon + tower for my tower. rinse repeat a few times and my team was just ready to surrender. the only way to beat teemo is to not 1v1 him. interpret as necessary; 2v1 or 0v1.
I feel the baron control with shrooms is really, REALLY strong though, even with his ap ratios nerfed. Also, they should've made the lifespan of the shrooms go up with the ap reduction, would've been fun to completely cover their jungle + river with the mushrooms.
On December 27 2014 14:31 nobodywonder wrote: Actually Teemo forever...Teemo jungle, support, adc, top, or middle. Teemo works in any situation.
Sell your soul for elo. Hail Satan.
On October 28 2014 10:25 GolemMadness wrote: Irelia is definitely not a counter to Tryndamere...
Skill matchup but Tryndamere will outscale in 1v1 duels eventually. Irelia much more useful in teamfights with that wtf-forever stun though.
at no point does tryndamere ever outscale teemo. unless you're getting 50 cs per 10, or letting him go even. The best i've seen a tryndamere do vs my teemo was to literally abandon lane, and gank bottom 4v2 with his jungler several times. they'd get a double kill + dragon + tower for my tower. rinse repeat a few times and my team was just ready to surrender. the only way to beat teemo is to not 1v1 him. interpret as necessary; 2v1 or 0v1.
Uh...check what I quoted... I referred to the Irelia vs Tryndamere matchup.
Recently, I've been playing AP Teemo again to good success, but this time in the mid lane.
I feel that the mid lane can actually be better for Teemo than top lane for a couple reasons.
1. More skillshot-based champions that you can dodge. 2. Better control the jungle, river and dragon with shrooms at the center of the map. 3. Usually less sustain champions in the mid lane.
core items for me are: liandrys, void staff, sorc boots, nashors tooth, zhonya + flex item (morello, lich bane, frozen mallet, banshee, etc.) focus on magic pen for most dmg. nashors tooth gives good dps and cdr, zhonya good active, flex item for different situations - morello vs mundo, soraka, lich bane for burst, etc)
On January 08 2015 05:33 nobodywonder wrote: Recently, I've been playing AP Teemo again to good success, but this time in the mid lane.
I feel that the mid lane can actually be better for Teemo than top lane for a couple reasons.
1. More skillshot-based champions that you can dodge. 2. Better control the jungle, river and dragon with shrooms at the center of the map. 3. Usually less sustain champions in the mid lane.
core items for me are: liandrys, void staff, sorc boots, nashors tooth, zhonya + flex item (morello, lich bane, frozen mallet, banshee, etc.) focus on magic pen for most dmg. nashors tooth gives good dps and cdr, zhonya good active, flex item for different situations - morello vs mundo, soraka, lich bane for burst, etc)
Yeah, but his global passive goes into full effect and hard CC jungles are the worst. This is a ok strat if you play passive the entire game. My opinion is most mages outrange you and those who don't have some sort of gap closer. Top lane is just so remote and and you can get away with a lot more shit.
On January 08 2015 05:33 nobodywonder wrote: Recently, I've been playing AP Teemo again to good success, but this time in the mid lane.
I feel that the mid lane can actually be better for Teemo than top lane for a couple reasons.
1. More skillshot-based champions that you can dodge. 2. Better control the jungle, river and dragon with shrooms at the center of the map. 3. Usually less sustain champions in the mid lane.
core items for me are: liandrys, void staff, sorc boots, nashors tooth, zhonya + flex item (morello, lich bane, frozen mallet, banshee, etc.) focus on magic pen for most dmg. nashors tooth gives good dps and cdr, zhonya good active, flex item for different situations - morello vs mundo, soraka, lich bane for burst, etc)
Yeah, but his global passive goes into full effect and hard CC jungles are the worst. This is a ok strat if you play passive the entire game. My opinion is most mages outrange you and those who don't have some sort of gap closer. Top lane is just so remote and and you can get away with a lot more shit.
By global passive, do you mean the Teemo permataunt, and if so, is that just a joke or no?
On January 08 2015 05:33 nobodywonder wrote: Recently, I've been playing AP Teemo again to good success, but this time in the mid lane.
I feel that the mid lane can actually be better for Teemo than top lane for a couple reasons.
1. More skillshot-based champions that you can dodge. 2. Better control the jungle, river and dragon with shrooms at the center of the map. 3. Usually less sustain champions in the mid lane.
core items for me are: liandrys, void staff, sorc boots, nashors tooth, zhonya + flex item (morello, lich bane, frozen mallet, banshee, etc.) focus on magic pen for most dmg. nashors tooth gives good dps and cdr, zhonya good active, flex item for different situations - morello vs mundo, soraka, lich bane for burst, etc)
Yeah, but his global passive goes into full effect and hard CC jungles are the worst. This is a ok strat if you play passive the entire game. My opinion is most mages outrange you and those who don't have some sort of gap closer. Top lane is just so remote and and you can get away with a lot more shit.
By global passive, do you mean the Teemo permataunt, and if so, is that just a joke or no?
Both a joke and observation. Some games I get camped hard, like jungle taking significant time to kill me. Also noticing that people go out of their way to kill me (so-called worth kills). Midlane just isn't as safe as top. When I play teemo I notice peoples frustrations a lot more than any champ. Not by what they say, but how they play.
EPT
hil stone was pretty cool story, but Catalyst is GODMODE
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