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On January 25 2011 09:16 rob.au wrote:
The OP doesn't really discuss those at all, it just states Neo's opinion. There's no real point to starting at blue since you can't rush dragon anymore and its not optimal for maxing exp/gold.
and asking us will suddenly tell you the truth and the only truth?
if you don't feel that starting at smallgols will let you do blue safely, then perhaps... that is why starting blue is good?
also, starting blue (assuming you don't get ganked after finishing it) assures that you stay at full health through the rest of the jungle. Also, it allows you flexibility in your ganking route (you can do wolves and then go straight to red if you want for a level 3 gank, etc. etc.) as well as allowing blue to be up again when you're around 6-7 and benefit even more from the cdr and mana regen (ult). the good thing about doing buffs early, as you might notice, is that they respawn earlier (which then gives you more flexibility in when you do those buffs / give them to your teammates).
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also, i'd like to see the numbers on "maximizing exp and gold" if you have those with you  it would be kind of interesting to see. it seems intuitive that doing blue first would be good for clear times because cdr and mana regen imba, but it'd be cool to know if there was another route for him.
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Whatever works for you. I still start at blue and while its more dangerous than before its only for that first minute. The rest of the route is fine. Tbh you should be mixing up your route to be less predictable (i never do though ha)
Last night I went to solo baron at lvl 15 lol (yi caught up eventually). Man it took forever! That's with a BR and dps Yi. Fortunately the other team were busy with super minions. :p
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I was asking if anyone had any input...so someone could come in and say "i start here because...", "i don't run attack speed runes because armor lets me do x"
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the route I currently favor most
9/0/21
Pen reds and quints (attack speed doesn't add as much damage as pen until you get bloodrazors, just more lifegain)
MR blues
MR yellows
Cloth Armor, 3 hp pots, 1 mana pot
Start wraiths, wolves, drink an hp pot and the mana pot, blue, roll the rest of the jungle
I don't really care about my first clear speed with ww, just prefer to be 100% safe. if I see something silly going on this lets me invade jungle with total assurance
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On January 25 2011 11:13 UniversalSnip wrote:
the route I currently favor most
9/0/21
Pen reds and quints (attack speed doesn't add as much damage as pen until you get bloodrazors, just more lifegain)
MR blues
MR yellows
Cloth Armor, 3 hp pots, 1 mana pot
Start wraiths, wolves, drink an hp pot and the mana pot, blue, roll the rest of the jungle
I don't really care about my first clear speed with ww, just prefer to be 100% safe. if I see something silly going on this lets me invade jungle with total assurance
It's not the first clear timing that's important [edit] (talking strictly about longsword vs cloth) [/edit], it's how long it takes you to get your razors. Start opening longsword + pot and learn map awareness. Looking silly when you get killed in the jungle is part of jungling. Embrace being embarrassed on streams.
On January 25 2011 09:16 rob.au wrote:
The OP doesn't really discuss those at all, it just states Neo's opinion. There's no real point to starting at blue since you can't rush dragon anymore and its not optimal for maxing exp/gold.
wtf are you talking about you start at blue because having blue buff lets you get red buff at full hp the fastest so in case there's a gank open you can gank
it also clears the jungle the fastest and gets you razors the fastest
"rush dragon" was never viable against good players in the first place
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and as for the first creep clear timing, with a full aspd vs full arpen marks quints and aspd yellows blues, aspd won over by about 2 seconds. the amount of health i had at blue and wraiths was pretty high with the arpen aspd runepage tho.
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Ya but the reason you run full aspd isn't for your first clear, it's for your razor procs midgame and your bloodrazor %dmg per hit late game. I dunno, personal preference I guess.
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Okay, I guess I was under the impression it was better to not start at blue because it took longer to get level 6 (never tested) and because level 4-5 ww gank isn't that strong.
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I mean, I play a low-gank style of warwick, probably the lowest out of all the good warwick players in this entire game, but I still think it's absolutely crucial to get your red buff in case there is a gank open because without it your 4-5 gank isn't just not strong, it's nonexistent.
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On January 25 2011 11:13 UniversalSnip wrote:
the route I currently favor most
9/0/21
Pen reds and quints (attack speed doesn't add as much damage as pen until you get bloodrazors, just more lifegain)
MR blues
MR yellows
Cloth Armor, 3 hp pots, 1 mana pot
Start wraiths, wolves, drink an hp pot and the mana pot, blue, roll the rest of the jungle
I don't really care about my first clear speed with ww, just prefer to be 100% safe. if I see something silly going on this lets me invade jungle with total assurance
With my runes I only get low at blue and finish red with well over half- 2/3rds health. I'm setup for ganking (AS + MS) which is far better throughout the game than shaving a few seconds off jungle or being a pansy 100% safe WW.
Ntm I don't think turrets are affected by apen.
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On January 25 2011 04:05 NeoIllusions wrote:
Oh, and it's nearly impossible to match up with solo laners in levels. MR buff makes jungling noticeably slower this patch. It's better to compare your CS with the enemy jungler (whenever he shows himself, take a look at the tab screen) and compare your level with the bottom laners. Assuming you're successful with your ganks, you should be equal or higher level than the guys down at bot.
Thanks for the tips and advice man, I will definitely take it onboard. I think part of me is just foolishly expecting more communication from team-mates in a solo q game. Communication which can make, or break, a gank.
I've actually been playing jungle rammus for the last few games and it's given me a lot to think about when jungling with WW. Because you can move around the map so quick with Rammus, and clear it with relative ease, you have no option but to pay constant attention to the map (or else get bored standing still, or sitting in a lane stealing your solo's xp). Of course you should do this with every champion, whether you're jungling or not, but the contrast between being able to powerball across the map and having to leg it with WW, means that you have to be able to react a lot quicker; often preemptively, so that you can be near a lane that needs help, or near a gank oppourtunity, or whatever.
Not keen on starting at blue with WW these days. Maybe because I don't have a great rune setup yet, but I find myself getting a bit too low for comfort.
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What do you guys think about Glacial Shroud/Frozen Heart in place of HoG/Randuin?
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United States37500 Posts
On January 27 2011 23:06 rob.au wrote:
What do you guys think about Glacial Shroud/Frozen Heart in place of HoG/Randuin?
WW doesn't need mana, he needs health.
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heart wouldnt be terrible on ww, but the mana is a bit wasted, and you could use hp from some source (tho it doesnt have to be omen)
hog is just nice since it is super cheap and omen is really easy to build in comparison to heart (1600 (ish) for shroud then 1400 to finish, vs 975 for hog and like 1350 (ish) for wardens and 600 combine cost
edit: @ neo, altho ww does have alot of ehp from lifesteal, he benefits a lot more from resistances at lower hp levels than a lot of other heroes do. that said, i do agree that he still does need quite a good bit of hp
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United States47024 Posts
The other thing is that the Randuin slow helps you stick to someone in a teamfight, particularly after you pass the point where you pass off red buff to your ranged carry.
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Ult-> randuins is amazing for hitting bloodrazor procs on someone and it provides regen, a movespeed slow, and HP on top of the armor, cdr and the attackspeed slow.
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Frozen heart should only be used on someone who needs the mana and the CDR, even if the armour and the proc is nice, its hardly justifiable.
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I somehow died to golem at lvl 1. Either I got an unlucky crit or lagged missing a crucial hunger. Either way I'm starting with wraith jack> wolves> golem lol.
Anyone else getting ridiculous lag yesterday?
I got unlucky as their jungle shaco decided to start at wraiths too and smited before I could. Need a contingency for that too..
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United States47024 Posts
How do people even die at blue with the leash trick now? You can finish with like over half HP.
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EPT
