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Community Feedback Update - October 29

Forum Index > Legacy of the Void
123 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Kingultalisk
Profile Joined October 2015
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-30 01:51:58
October 30 2015 01:39 GMT
#1
[image loading]


We wanted to talk a little bit this week about the beta ending. Balance updates aren’t coming to a close after the beta ends or after the game launches. As we’ve said many times before, top level pro players haven’t fully joined in yet, so while we got great feedback from the community throughout the beta, there are still unknown factors at the highest skill levels. We will continue to keep an open channel on feedback so that we can react to potential issues that come up. While we would like to respond quickly to possibleissues immediately following the release of the game, we’d also like to be careful to avoid a few pitfalls as we work together with the community:

1. Not overreacting too quickly to potential issues

a. It’s easy to laser in on 4-5 games that happened in 1 weekend and base all your decisions on those salient games. However, if a particular mechanic is cool and has potential, we shouldn’t be too quick to nerf it.

2. Making hard conclusions.

a. At times it’s easy to make hard conclusions on things, like: “This race is completely broken and unbeatable” or “This race is so bad that it can never compete ever.” However, it’s rare for balance issues in a game to be so extreme.

b. Similarly, we should take note that it’s difficult to judge whether there is an issue. We’ve seen many times that even top tier pros can make hard conclusions that turn out to be flawed as time passed. As others have pointed out,it’s just not possible to know with 100% certainty all the time.

c. Finally, we need to focus on keeping an open mind on issues and evaluating them fairly. It’s not about who “knew” what will happen, it’s about working together to find the best solution for different issues.

3. We can be more aggressive with balance test maps, but perhaps not with actual patches.

a. We do plan on testing potential issues a bit more aggressively in LotV. The reason for this is to be more quick to react on solutions once something is determined to be an issues.

b. Feedback regarding this line of though is greatly welcome, since now is the time to be discussing this plan.

4. Working together as we have all throughout the beta

a. The same things apply here that we’ve been doing together for so long: It’s not about who was right and who was wrong, and we shouldn’t care who called what and who didn’t know what would happen, extreme statements are often times wrong statements, etc.

b. Our main goal is to correctly identify issues to make sure that they’re actual problems that players can’t fix on their own, and finding the best solution.


With that said, we’d like to thank you guys once again for so much help during the beta. It was a great learning experience to be able to work so closely with many smart, dedicated, and talented people out there. It was also clear that a negative minority out there won’t change, but it was awesome to see so many people who were constructive, positive, and helpful towards the better of Starcraft 2 – we appreciate it, and we know the community does too.

We strongly believe that due to community collaboration efforts, there are clear improvements to how the game turned out for release. Thank you so much. And while we know that LotV isn’t a perfect game yet, we’ll continue working closely with all of you out there who are willing to contribute so much as you have throughout the course of development.

Next balance update
We’re not doing another balance update this week, due to how little testing time there will be even if we put one out. After the game releases, the current plan for the next balance update is to mostly focus on issues that are game breaking first. Because players will need time to explore and learn new tools, we don’t want to be too quick to make hard judgements on issues unless we have to.

From past experience, we know for a fact that timing based all ins or strategies will be easily identifiable in terms of extremely difficult to stop all ins or early timing based attacks. For example, if Nydus all in like many of you point out is really unstoppable, we’d easily see a huge amount of games where Nydus is being used in major tournaments + opponents not being able to counter them. This is the sort of issue that we will need to react as quickly as possible on. As compared to if Lurkers are a bit powerful, but Protoss players are going 45% win ratio against them, maybe we can give Protoss players the time to find their own solutions before doing a balance update.

With that said, these are the things we are currently looking at internally:

Photon Overcharge tweaks
Lurker morph times
Nydus strength
Recent Liberator changes
Siege tank drops in TvT


New maps
We wanted to talk about new 1v1 maps going into release. We’ll be releasing a map blog on these maps as well, but we wanted to talk a bit more in detail about this topic before that happens. We know that there are many of you out there including top tier pros who prefer the same, standard maps every time. As we’ve discussed many times over and over again, it’s much more exciting in terms of playing and watching to have map diversity which leads to strategic diversity as well.

As we’ve mentioned before, the reason why we wanted to reiterate further is because we’re aiming to push map diversity even more for the launch of LotV. We know that there will be some tournaments that happen right after launch, but the actual tournament seasons will begin early next year. That makes this the best time to explore new ideas, since we have an opportunity to change out one or more of these maps before the major tournament season begins in LotV early next year.

Starcraft 2 panels at Blizzcon next week
We know that there’s so much going on at Blizzcon these days. Therefore, we wanted to give you guys a heads up on what each panel will cover, so that you guys can plan your time accordingly among all the things you’ll be doing and watching during Blizzcon.

Future of SC2 panel
Here, we will talk about our plans on each department of the SC2 development team and what our focuses are going forward. This includes the future plans for campaign/story, multiplayer systems, co op missions, and answers to miscellaneous suggestions. This will be on Friday right after the opening ceremony.

Multiplayer panel
This panel will be going over the goals we had for LotV, as well as examples of what actually made it into the game due to these goals (as a summary for people who haven’t been keeping close attention). We will then go into our community collaboration efforts we’ve been putting into Void, and what it means in this area going forward. Finally, this panel will go in depth into thoughts behind the ladder system revamp as well as the current ideas and solutions we have on the design side. This will be on Friday afternoon around 4:30pm.

SC2 Launch Celebration
This isn’t a panel, but we’ll be celebrating the launch of LotV on Saturday morning on the WCS stream. This will include looking back through both the development and the life cycle of all of Starcraft, and there will be discussions with SC1 developers, various pro players/influencers to Starcraft, as well as SC2 developers.

We strongly feel that many of you out there have clearly been an integral part of our development team throughout the beta. We hope this process continues even after the launch of the game in less than a couple weeks! Thank you so much, and we’ll see you at Blizzcon next week!

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Kingultalisk
Profile Joined October 2015
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-30 01:44:56
October 30 2015 01:43 GMT
#2
My personal opinion.

Zerg

In all honesty ling/ravagers is way better then lurkers in ZvP
I have no idea why David Kim thinks that Lurkers timings is to strong when we don’t see lurkers outside of ZvP.

Its to bad cuz now ZvZ is back to Roach vs Roach and faster Lurkers would have made ZvZ go into late game

Byun showed clear counters to nydus in many tournaments, more obvious he showed that bio parade push might be to strong if the Zerg has only 3 larva and the Terran has almost the same MULE

Terran

Liberators are fine but to easy to mass, a simple change to make them at techlab is perfect, damage nerfs might happen if koreans find something broken

Tank drops needs removed, design wise makes no sense

Toss

PO needs to be 50 energy, David Kim knows this, its just a spam fest for now. You cant push a Protoss in the early game.

Disruptors will need a damage nerf for sure
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
October 30 2015 01:46 GMT
#3
TLDR: Beta is over, that's what the game will be. Patches will come because the game won't be perfectly balanced right now. But balance issues aside nothing will change from now on.
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10682 Posts
October 30 2015 01:54 GMT
#4
Awesome, thanks for posting.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
TronJovolta
Profile Joined April 2013
United States323 Posts
October 30 2015 02:04 GMT
#5
I'm way into further experimenting with maps, cool that they are talking about it.

Also, with what they're talking about internally, my only issue with LOTV balance that they aren't talking about is warp prism strength. The pickup range is crazy.

Other than that, I'm still really enjoying the beta overall and can't wait to see top tier tourney's next year.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17026 Posts
October 30 2015 02:09 GMT
#6
On October 30 2015 10:39 Kingultalisk wrote:
Future of SC2 panel
Here, we will talk about our plans on each department of the SC2 development team and what our focuses are going forward. This includes the future plans for campaign/story, multiplayer systems, co op missions, and answers to miscellaneous suggestions. This will be on Friday right after the opening ceremony.

Multiplayer panel
This panel will be going over the goals we had for LotV, as well as examples of what actually made it into the game due to these goals (as a summary for people who haven’t been keeping close attention). We will then go into our community collaboration efforts we’ve been putting into Void, and what it means in this area going forward. Finally, this panel will go in depth into thoughts behind the ladder system revamp as well as the current ideas and solutions we have on the design side. This will be on Friday afternoon around 4:30pm.


my biggest question for the future of SC2 Esports is how will this new ATVI eSports subsidiary impact WCS 2016
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Kingultalisk
Profile Joined October 2015
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-30 02:39:12
October 30 2015 02:38 GMT
#7
On October 30 2015 10:46 Big J wrote:
TLDR: Beta is over, that's what the game will be. Patches will come because the game won't be perfectly balanced right now. But balance issues aside nothing will change from now on.


I honestly doubt it, to many things are imbalanced.
Once those change, so will the Meta

Or I at least hope so cuz seeing Protoss mass stalkers and Disruptors in all matchups is not fun
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20322 Posts
October 30 2015 02:55 GMT
#8
Or I at least hope so cuz seeing Protoss mass stalkers and Disruptors in all matchups is not fun


They nerfed carriers to unplayability and adepts to being kinda meh and less useful than stalkers in many situations, what do you expect? What do you want from protoss matchups?
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Ozmodeus
Profile Joined April 2011
United States24 Posts
October 30 2015 03:01 GMT
#9
adepts offer free scouting at 0 risk to protoss every game.. wtf seriously?
live and let lie
ThunderBum
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia192 Posts
October 30 2015 03:17 GMT
#10
It has been great to read some of Blizzards thoughts throughout this beta, and it has been sad reading the communities responses to everything they do. LotV is such a cool game and it's a shame to see how so many people hang onto what they know instead of realising it's a very different game that plays mechanically the same.
NKexquisite
Profile Joined January 2009
United States911 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-30 03:18:52
October 30 2015 03:18 GMT
#11
Well this isn't anything terribly news-worthy.. Of course they will continue to patch and change things as they come up... Nobody should reasonably expect perfection in a game like this straight out of beta..

I like the new weekly/semi-weekly update format and hope it continues. We really do need to get into televised matches to flush out any remaining balance issues and prove what is and isn't working.

I'm excited for LOTV, its really quite different from HOTS in so many ways.
Whattttt Upppppppp Im Nesteaaaaaa!!
Sogetsu
Profile Joined July 2011
514 Posts
October 30 2015 03:32 GMT
#12
No faith here... but it is time for the Modders to shine...

Like, seriously, now the Devs stated they won't be patching fast, but using PTRs... and remember what happened the last time with PTRs and everything regarded to Swarm Hosts? Yep... almost nobody tested it, and they got flying locust... later they made another PTR and they rolled back the changes.

The only thing I hope is to see decent and different games from pros, instead the same thing over and over.
Raptor: "Es hora de salvar a los E-Sports..." http://i3.minus.com/ibtne3liprtByB.png
WhaleOFaTale
Profile Joined June 2014
46 Posts
October 30 2015 03:47 GMT
#13
On October 30 2015 12:32 Sogetsu wrote:
No faith here... but it is time for the Modders to shine...

Like, seriously, now the Devs stated they won't be patching fast, but using PTRs... and remember what happened the last time with PTRs and everything regarded to Swarm Hosts? Yep... almost nobody tested it, and they got flying locust... later they made another PTR and they rolled back the changes.

The only thing I hope is to see decent and different games from pros, instead the same thing over and over.



When you are playin for shit tons of money pros will choose the best 1 strategy and use it the most, if you want diversity watch lower pro games or people that don't have it all on the line.
ZeroCartin
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Costa Rica2390 Posts
October 30 2015 03:48 GMT
#14
Im a big fan, but am still unsure as to buy LOTV. I have both collectors editions, but still not really feeling this one
"My sister is on vacation in Costa Rica right now. I hope she stays a while because she's a miserable cunt." -pubbanana
ThunderBum
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia192 Posts
October 30 2015 03:52 GMT
#15
On October 30 2015 12:32 Sogetsu wrote: The only thing I hope is to see decent and different games from pros, instead the same thing over and over.


That's their reasons behind map diversity.
ThunderBum
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia192 Posts
October 30 2015 03:53 GMT
#16
On October 30 2015 12:48 ZeroCartin wrote:
Im a big fan, but am still unsure as to buy LOTV. I have both collectors editions, but still not really feeling this one


If you like slow macro "standard" games where a failed big attack means just adding a tech structure and trying again appeals to you, stick with HotS.
looknohands119
Profile Joined March 2010
United States815 Posts
October 30 2015 04:01 GMT
#17
The panel descriptions are super helpful and I'm very glad that there will continue to be big design changes post release.
"The kingdom of the heavens is buried treasure. Would you sell yourself to buy the one you've found?" - Jon Foreman ('Your Love Is Strong' - Spring EP)
Masada714
Profile Joined March 2011
United States89 Posts
October 30 2015 04:03 GMT
#18
On October 30 2015 10:39 Kingultalisk wrote:


Finally, this panel will go in depth into thoughts behind the ladder system revamp as well as the current ideas and solutions we have on the design side. This will be on Friday afternoon around 4:30pm.




I'll be curious to see what the ladder revamp is. As far as I know, there is no information on this and I feel like this could be important to the future of this game. I hope they get this part right, although I'm not sure what that should look like right now.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20322 Posts
October 30 2015 04:18 GMT
#19
On October 30 2015 12:01 Ozmodeus wrote:
adepts offer free scouting at 0 risk to protoss every game.. wtf seriously?


Nobody's arguing that they don't do that.

A scouting adept won't replace stalker/disruptor blobbing around the map, nor will it replace air armies. It's just something that any protoss style can make good use of in the first few minutes of the game.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
moofang
Profile Joined June 2011
508 Posts
October 30 2015 05:11 GMT
#20
It seemed at a few points in the beta that the game could promise to be better and cooler than it currently is, but looking at it in absolute terms - especially looking at the nett changes in the hots->lotv changelog thread - I think lotv is in a good place. It's time to settle down and appreciate the game for what it is I guess
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