EPT
Community Feedback Update - October 29 - Page 4
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On October 30 2015 23:56 KeksX wrote: The same reason they thought invincible anything was good, The_Red_Viper Because it is cool? Nah i think Disruptors being invincible made kinda sense for their design. But nydus worms? The nydus worm in general is in a really weird spot to begin with if you ask me. In reality it only is used to allin your opponent, i don't think this is a good sign. In reality sc2 would probably be better if they just removed it (or completely redesigned it, for another purpose) and just buffed drops accordingly. | ||
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
On October 31 2015 00:04 The_Red_Viper wrote: Because it is cool? Nah i think Disruptors being invincible made kinda sense for their design. But nydus worms? The nydus worm in general is in a really weird spot to begin with if you ask me. In reality it only is used to allin your opponent, i don't think this is a good sign. In reality sc2 would probably be better if they just removed it (or completely redesigned it, for another purpose) and just buffed drops accordingly. They just need to remove the ability to heal nydus, at least spam heals, and nydus will be perfectly balanced. That's the only thing stopping the counter play, invincibility has nothing to do with it. | ||
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MrFreeman
207 Posts
I love the new units and less demanding MM, I just hope that the game will get paced down with future updates. Ideally before HotS player base gets too small. | ||
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xenonn40
United States282 Posts
On October 31 2015 00:43 MrFreeman wrote: For me, the game has become too fast paced, reactive, with things happening all the time, to really enjoy. I would really like to see how will the "casual" and new players react. I love the new units and less demanding MM, I just hope that the game will get paced down with future updates. Ideally before HotS player base gets too small. The problem is, there is no way for Blizzard to satisfy everyone. Some people want carriers/battlecruisers/broodlords, etc to be useful, while others (including me) find mass air late game to be extremely boring. Some people don't like that you have to expand fast "or die", while others (including me) find it extremely boring when players turtle to a perfect army on 3 bases. Some players want only standard maps, so they can do their one standard build per matchup, while others want a diverse map pool so that we can see a variety of different play styles in pro games. Personally, I would like to avoid the slow games like the Infestor/BL, Swarmhost, Turtlemech, Protoss death ball games of the past, and see more games like the bio vs muta/ling/bane, blink stalker vs roach/hydra/viper games where the action is fast paced and spread out across the map, and its not just spending 20-30 minutes building up perfect armies that no one can engage, or just clash them into each other and the game is over. Also, I would prefer there to be less coinflippy, game ending harassment like oracles and widowmines and more things like immortal/warp prism drops. | ||
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zealotstim
United States455 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10760 Posts
On October 31 2015 01:09 zealotstim wrote: As someone who loves to watch but doesn't play, I really hope they keep siege tank drops. That makes sense, as you watch but don't play... | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On October 31 2015 01:16 GGzerG wrote: That makes sense, as you watch but don't play... Yeah agreed. They might be "fun to watch"(which is absurd compared to siege tank lines), but they're definitely completely frustrating to play against. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On October 31 2015 00:31 Spyridon wrote: They just need to remove the ability to heal nydus, at least spam heals, and nydus will be perfectly balanced. That's the only thing stopping the counter play, invincibility has nothing to do with it. Yeah you completely missed the point. IDC about nydus balance, as i said before i am sure you can stop it atm even with queen healing. The problem is the nydus design from the get go, it's an allin mechanic, nothing more (before they made it invincible it simply wasn't worth it in 99% of the cases) Not that interesting of a unit/structure if the sole purpose is to allin the enemy. | ||
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
On October 31 2015 01:19 KeksX wrote: Yeah agreed. They might be "fun to watch"(which is absurd compared to siege tank lines), but they're definitely completely frustrating to play against. The reason i don´t really even watch TvT unless it´s two really big names is because of the prevalence of doom dropping. Doom dropping siege tanks will just make it even more difficult to watch for me personally. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On October 31 2015 01:22 The_Red_Viper wrote: Yeah you completely missed the point. IDC about nydus balance, as i said before i am sure you can stop it atm even with queen healing. The problem is the nydus design from the get go, it's an allin mechanic, nothing more (before they made it invincible it simply wasn't worth it in 99% of the cases) Not that interesting of a unit/structure if the sole purpose is to allin the enemy. There are so many interesting things you could do with the Nydus worm. Just three on top of my head: 1) New tool to spread creep (in line, bigger radius) 2) Mass burrow units( units go into nydus -> burrowed, have fixed speed, can move all over creep) 3) Production facility -> produces larvae/can be injected(same as teleport, just slower) But the time of experimenting with the nydus didn't even come in beta :/ | ||
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Apoteosis
Chile820 Posts
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Antonidas
United States105 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19367 Posts
On October 30 2015 10:46 Big J wrote: TLDR: Beta is over, that's what the game will be. Patches will come because the game won't be perfectly balanced right now. But balance issues aside nothing will change from now on. You continue to post super negative front page posts. You're whole attitude is terrible, outlook on this op is wrong, and it's a shame you can't seem to change. DK did a solid job here of vocalizing acknowledgement of all the current issues mentioned on TL and has said they are reviewing them. You can't ask for anything more. This is very positive and should be regarded so. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
On October 31 2015 01:22 The_Red_Viper wrote: Yeah you completely missed the point. IDC about nydus balance, as i said before i am sure you can stop it atm even with queen healing. The problem is the nydus design from the get go, it's an allin mechanic, nothing more (before they made it invincible it simply wasn't worth it in 99% of the cases) Not that interesting of a unit/structure if the sole purpose is to allin the enemy. Ironic that you claim Nydus is only useful for allin's, as you accuse me of "missing the point". Nydus has a huge amount of uses - for example breaking out/around positional dominance, retreating, blocking expansions, global range creep spread with a queen or 2, or bringing your queens across the map to assist your army as a support unit. Easily setting up static defenses across the map. Nydus is actually one of the things Zerg has that you can get most creative with it's use. Your argument is flawed. But in WoL/HotS you never seen it. Why? Because it was so ridiculously easy to counterplay. Your opponent had a chance to counterplay it far before you could do anything about it. The counterplay had no interaction between players whatsoever. It was completely asynchronous. The new Nydus, in theory, forces interaction between the players better. The counterplay is real time, with both players having a chance to interact as the nydus erupts. But the problem right now is the balance. Which brings me back to your claims of it being an "allin mechanic".... the only thing making it an allin mechanic right now is the fact that you could throw your entire army in it, queens and all, spawn a nydus right in the middle of hte opponents base, and spam it with heals as you erupt, in hopes that your opponent can't do anything about it. Simply remove the ability to heal it (or spam heals, at least), and all of a sudden we have a mechanic that is NO LONGER USED FOR ALL-INS, but rather can be used creatively to force interaction. You wouldn't see people bringing their entire army + queens and spawn it right in the middle of their base anymore. The ability to spam heal Nydus is the backbone of the "all in Nydus" strategy. | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
On October 31 2015 02:32 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Is there anything incorrect what he has written? He basically wrote accurately hat blizzard has said with the PR bullshit taken out. If it sounds negative, well that's just your interpretation of the essence of the update. Yeah I feel pretty much the same as you and BigJ, that's the essence of this community management post. | ||
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Blizzkrieg
95 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On October 31 2015 02:32 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Is there anything incorrect what he has written? He basically wrote accurately hat blizzard has said with the PR bullshit taken out. If it sounds negative, well that's just your interpretation of the essence of the update. Oh come on, don't play that game. If you follow those guys' posts, they're never satisfied with anything. They are also assuming the worst at any point in time. And they're leaving out the past to establish their point. Blizzard >DID< change more things than just balance in the past. It wouldn't the first time and it certainly wasn't the last time when they did it with the Swarm Host. I'm the first one to judge Blizzard for not being bold enough, but at this point many people on Teamliquid.net, especially newer posters, are just playing into the "ded gaem" narrative Destiny started with his post a few years ago. EDIT: Took out the name since it's not just him. | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
On October 31 2015 03:05 Blizzkrieg wrote: Still wish they would've kept the starting workers at 6. Yeah when I watch games with this 12 worker start, what really bothers me is that I think what I'm seeing is players basically blind expo + 2 gate + tech ? I see they nexus 2 gate cyber blind? If you definitely have to FE every time, it means it is no longer strategically relevant the time and the way that you expand the first time and when you choose to build these first buildings which is such an important part of opening a game leading to diversity of stuff happening early, and to different midgames. What was said is the reason why they put 12 worker starts, to speed up the early game?? Or to simplify openings??? | ||
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