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Community Feedback Update - October 8

Forum Index > Legacy of the Void
125 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
October 08 2015 22:48 GMT
#1
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/19267196539#1

Welcome back for another Community Feedback Update. We’ve got some topics to discuss regarding balance, as well as some topics on Terran and Protoss.

Perfect Balance Thread

We saw the popular thread this week stating how Heart of the Swarm has near perfect balance. We wanted to say a few things about that. First is the game’s current balance is really a combined effort of everyone doing his or her part to make the results this good. For example, if players of a certain race aren’t playing as well as they would normally, even with our current numbers, the in-game stats wouldn’t look as good. Also, due to the heavy collaboration with our community, we feel that the perception around good stats has improved. In the past, we’ve seen many negative responses to posts like this due to less people being connected. Now however, due to increased community collaboration, we feel that this weird negativity has largely been dispelled.

The other important thing we’d like to point out is that while it’s true that LotV balance definitely won’t start off this good, this post and your thoughts around it was a good example of how there’s an extremely high confidence that we can get there over time. We say this because our processes having improved over the years, many community members have leveled up in their thought processes and suggestions, and players playing the game at a much higher level.

Thank you everyone for the high positive engagement throughout this year, and we hope that we can continue this throughout LotV as well.

Heart of the Swarm Patch?

Balance is looking pretty good right now, better players seem to win in each matchup, and we don’t want to risk Zerg being on the stronger side for BlizzCon finals, so we’ve decided not to do a HotS patch. Thank you for your feedback regarding this, and thank you for playtesting in the latest balance test map. Your efforts are always appreciated and helpful when we make these kinds of decisions.

Terran MULE

We’ve seen that the mining rate nerf wasn’t a good choice for the MULE. It’s hurting the cases where MULE’s need to be pulled off of minerals, and the randomness that can occur of a MULE not being dropped optimally causes more varying return amounts per MULE than we expected. Therefore, we’d like to revert this nerf, and reduce the harvest amount per trip instead to not have these effects. Also, the harvest amount nerf was too much, so we’ll be looking at a slightly smaller overall nerf to the MULE for the next patch. This should bring Terran up a bit in strength overall, which we think is a good thing since Terran is the slightly weaker of the 3 races currently.

Adept

Adepts do look to be in a much better place like you guys point out, but we also agree with the feedback that they probably need to be nerfed slightly more. We’d like to go for a slight nerf again to see where the unit stands. We’re currently thinking of reducing its life by 10.

Warp Prism and Warp-in Changes

The reduction in warp-in time is looking like it has a very small impact on the defensive case (units already warped in fast enough), and on the offense, the defending player really has no time to move the defending units around. We believe this is the issue with the Warp Prism, and would like to try out going to 4-5 seconds to warp in units. In this scenario, we would also remove the double-damage penalty for units warping in. We’re not too worried about the defensive warp-in case with these changes, because defensive units being warped-in to defend has always been strong and quick enough throughout Wings and HotS.

We did also look into the popular suggestion of making faster warp-ins an upgrade, but during internal playtesting, we realized it just pushes the problem to a later timing where the issue is arguably worse. Not having time to react in terms of army movement is the issue, so we felt the super quick warp-in ability just isn’t that great at any stage of the game.

Cyclone

We’ve had many discussions with players regarding this unit in the past week, and there seems to be a general consensus that Cyclones, when in small numbers, need to be buffed. We definitely agree but we want to make sure any buff we apply doesn’t make massing only Cyclones a viable strategy. We feel that it’s the 7 range required to lock-on that makes mass Cyclones much less effective than before, so we will try to avoid a buff in areas such as this.

For the early/mid game buff, we have been playtesting with a movement speed increase to the base unit to allow the Cyclone to be microed a bit easier, and it’s looking pretty solid so far. It definitely buffs both the defensive and offensive Cyclone usage in the early/mid game, so we would like to try out this change in the beta.

We also heard the feedback that they should be removed from the game, and while this is doable if it truly came down to it, we’d like to explore getting them to a good place first. We also wanted to remind everyone that being too extreme in feedback generally isn’t as helpful as offering constructive ways to solve issues within the game.

The Disruptor and the Warp Prism

We heard your feedback about allowing the Disruptor to load into the Warp Prism while Purification Nova is active and we also agree that this would be a good change. This will add new tactics in Disruptor versus Disruptor fights where, in the past, the person who fired off their nova second would be guaranteed dead. How it will work is if you have fired the ability, but pick up the Disruptor before the damage goes off, the damaging effect will fizzle, dealing no damage. This will create for cool micro moments in game where players will need to decide if they would rather save their Disruptor or deal damage. We’ll be making this change in the next balance update.

We’re aiming to get the next balance update out as soon as possible, and while we don’t know for certain yet, we’d like to release the update as soon as tomorrow afternoon.

That’s it for this week. We’re looking forward to hear your thoughts after you’ve given these changes a go.
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Espartaquen
Profile Joined September 2015
88 Posts
October 08 2015 22:57 GMT
#2
Phoenix wars in pvp?
Liberators?
Disruptor vs Disruptor wars?
No comment on these areas?
Times ticking and we need these adressed too...
AdrianHealeyy
Profile Joined June 2015
114 Posts
October 08 2015 23:01 GMT
#3
Disrupter vs Distuptor wars is *literally* addressed.

Reasonable update; taking things one step at a time. It's only normal they don't respond to everyone's Christmaslist, although I could also be mad that they didn't look at mine. But that would be highly unreasonable.
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16101 Posts
October 08 2015 23:01 GMT
#4
Ultras? Parasitic bomb? Carriers? I thought this is the balance phase so why don't you focus on the most broken things first?
Also remove tank drop, tvt is simply retarded with that.

And what about terribly designed units like tempests, oracles and swarmhosts, are they staying in their current form?
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Valyrian
Profile Joined August 2015
41 Posts
October 08 2015 23:02 GMT
#5
Good call on the warp ins.

Also good to see they see the issue with Adepts, but disappointed they're looking at stat tweaks instead of addressing their timing, or the timing of their ability (no core unit starts with a special ability without upgrade).

Cyclone: I wish they considered a damage point of 0, if they are keen on making it more microable.
Clear World
Profile Joined April 2015
125 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-08 23:08:27
October 08 2015 23:07 GMT
#6
On October 09 2015 08:01 Charoisaur wrote:
Ultras? Parasitic bomb? Carriers? I thought this is the balance phase so why don't you focus on the most broken things first?
Also remove tank drop, tvt is simply retarded with that.

And what about terribly designed units like tempests, oracles and swarmhosts, are they staying in their current form?


Base on the devs past work, by 'balance', i think they mean, just making the game hit the 50/50 win ratio, regardless of the design.

They will probably only touch upon them if it skewes the win ratios.
:p <-- this is my sarcasm face
Athenau
Profile Joined March 2015
590 Posts
October 08 2015 23:08 GMT
#7

For the early/mid game buff, we have been playtesting with a movement speed increase to the base unit to allow the Cyclone to be microed a bit easier, and it’s looking pretty solid so far. It definitely buffs both the defensive and offensive Cyclone usage in the early/mid game, so we would like to try out this change in the beta.


On October 09 2015 00:00 Athenau wrote:
And let's be realistic, the unit is not going to be removed at this late stage, and it isn't going to be redesigned. So the best we can hope for is that Blizzard balances it properly. And, give them credit, Blizzard is very good at making these sorts of fine balance adjustments.

The unit seems a touch undertuned at the moment, so I expect the next patch to bring a small buff (like lower lock-on cooldown or slightly higher speed).


Called it.
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3554 Posts
October 08 2015 23:15 GMT
#8
On October 09 2015 07:57 Espartaquen wrote:
Phoenix wars in pvp?
Liberators?
Disruptor vs Disruptor wars?
No comment on these areas?
Times ticking and we need these adressed too...

You can start by introducing the problems.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3554 Posts
October 08 2015 23:19 GMT
#9
I agree that they shouldn't patch HotS just before Blizzcon, but I have a hard time seeing any Zerg player win it, if they have to go through a strong meching Terran. Luckily most of the Blizzcon Terrans are Bio players and Rogue has shown promise vs Mech.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
NKexquisite
Profile Joined January 2009
United States911 Posts
October 08 2015 23:20 GMT
#10
Geez. All the changes they are making are fine. I'd rather them fix things in small batches and do it correctly rather than try to fix EVERYTHING in one giant patch and fail.
Whattttt Upppppppp Im Nesteaaaaaa!!
jinjin5000
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1560 Posts
October 08 2015 23:21 GMT
#11
No mention of siege tank
No mention of cycloen being re-purposed for AA
No mention of PO
No mention of prevalence of Air focused compositions (BL/viper, carrier/tempest, ect)

eh...
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-08 23:36:50
October 08 2015 23:28 GMT
#12
Please don't remove the double damage from warp ins! Don't go back to HotS warp-ins now with 4-5seconds and no downsides for the warping unit. I really liked the extra damage to the units, it gave you a clear incentive to targetfire in combats. If the damage is too extreme with the normal HotS warp time, maybe reduce it to 150% instead of 200%, but I feel like cutting it completely just takes away a lot from the new warpgate.

Also I want to add that I believe the adept should not be nerfed further right now with the warp change. It's base stats are worse than those of a bio-unit and comparable to the roach. The issue is only partly the adept but in general the warpgate/warp prism allins against Terran. The combination of cyclone buff and warp in nerfs could deal with that. In that light it also makes sense to keep extra damage for the warping units to counteract this timing play!
jpg06051992
Profile Joined July 2015
United States580 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-08 23:30:52
October 08 2015 23:29 GMT
#13
Infestor still unviable?

Liberators still way better then the tank at holding ground?

Tank still able to be picked up yet sucking at doing it's original job of holding ground?

Adept still hella good early game (less so now) and sucks really bad late game.

Why do Cyclones even shoot at the ground? Mech has plenty of anti ground, Cyclone should be reworked into having a super crappy ground damage with better anti air capabilities (since they are obviously not going to put in the Goliath)

So many things that seem to be getting overlooked without even a mention.
"SO MANY BANELINGS!"
Pugfarmer
Profile Joined April 2014
70 Posts
October 08 2015 23:44 GMT
#14
Just separate mech upgrades in HOTS and problem solved.
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16101 Posts
October 08 2015 23:46 GMT
#15
The new disruptor is really awkard to control.
I much preferred the old version of the disruptor because it wasn't as complicated and simpler to use.
Especially when combined with other units like high templars or sentries it becomes really difficult to control everything.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16101 Posts
October 08 2015 23:46 GMT
#16
On October 09 2015 08:44 Pugfarmer wrote:
Just separate mech upgrades in HOTS and problem solved.

Which problem?
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
wongfeihung
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States763 Posts
October 08 2015 23:50 GMT
#17
On October 09 2015 08:44 Pugfarmer wrote:
Just separate mech upgrades in HOTS and problem solved.

And change Bunker build time.
sushiman
Profile Joined September 2003
Sweden2691 Posts
October 08 2015 23:57 GMT
#18
For the early/mid game buff, we have been playtesting with a movement speed increase to the base unit to allow the Cyclone to be microed a bit easier

Was microing an auto-kiting unit really such a problem before, that the best solution they can come up with is to make it even easier? Removing it seems a more sensible of fixing such a stupid unit tbh.
1000 at least.
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16101 Posts
October 08 2015 23:58 GMT
#19
On October 09 2015 08:50 wongfeihung wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2015 08:44 Pugfarmer wrote:
Just separate mech upgrades in HOTS and problem solved.

And change Bunker build time.

Or roach burrow move speed^^
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
October 09 2015 00:28 GMT
#20
I don't know, i still get the feeling that blizzard does the absolute minimum to make the community happy overall.
Dreamhack will be a big test and i hope it works out
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
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