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Protoss Aesthetic Design Discussion: A Case of Idea Stagnation, aka “everything is circles”
This is a thread to discuss the aesthetics of the Protoss species. This is NOT a discussion about balance, abilities, or mechanics. Blizzard has recently really stepped up in regards to working with the community and testing out different permutations of economy models and specific tweaks to units and their abilities. I hope this type of experimentation continues and I think Blizzard should be applauded for it.
This post will rather discuss the overall design theme Blizzard has decided to apply to Protoss. Personally, I am one of the dinosaurs in the community who has been playing the game and watching events since the olden days. I was drawn to Protoss back in Brood War for no other reason other than this species of high tech aliens looked really cool. Sadly I think the design decisions lately have been weak and unimaginative, which is especially disappointing in what is the Protoss expansion.
To get to the point, the circle theme is getting out of control. The building warp-in sphere, the pylons, the cannon, some of this is classic Protoss design language, and I am not saying this should change, but this theme has creeped up too much into the recent units, which is sad, because Blizzard had a real chance to design some cool looking units.
This lack of ideas began in HoTs, which saw Protoss get a floating sphere (mothership core), a siege flyer that shoots giant photon cannon spheres (tempest), and another sphere-looking flying unit (oracle). Now with LoTV this lack of creativity continues with the disruptor, a giant sphere that detonates, or in the most recent patch, a sphere that launches other spheres that detonate, and the adept, which is basically a zealot with a cape with a LoL-like ability. The “everything is circles” theme is not only seen in units (mothership core, tempest, oracle, disruptor), it is also visible in Protoss abilities, most recently the photon overcharge, be it cast on the Nexus or on pylons in the most recent patch.
I think this is just laziness in design. Blizzard has squandered some great opportunities to make some really awesome units. Ironically, I think most people would’ve been perfectly content if Blizzard had just brought back the reaver and the arbiter, two beloved and much more imaginative units than a ball that shoots exploding balls and a League unit (bringing the Lurker back shows that Blizzard doesn't fundamentally oppose the idea of bringing back old units). A discussion about how the units LOOK is just as, if not more, important than a discussion about their stats and abilities. The way a unit looks tends to be way more set in stone and is much harder to change or tweak, unlike abilities or stats. I am sure there are plenty of designers and artists out there that can imagine much more awesome units which would be better fit for the mighty Protoss. If I were Blizzard I would’ve fired the Protoss lead designer a long time ago, maybe 3-4 sphere units ago.
TLDNR: Toss is circlez, plz no more circlez =[
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That was a convoluted way of just asking them to put the old units back in.
Why do you cite photon overcharge for this sphere thing? The projectile is comet shaped, not like the photon cannon or tempest projectiles.
Anyway, the protoss aesthetic has always been yellow metal (or the gray metal for DT stuff) + blue glowy stuff. I think the new units fit into that well. My only problem with the disruptor (the way it looks, anyway) is it spins around too fast.
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I think the tempest looks awesome, but I can agree that there's too many sphere units these days. I don't think any of them are particularly interesting looking, save for maybe the mama core.
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On September 14 2015 04:51 Cold Warpgates wrote:
That was a convoluted way of just asking them to put the old units back in.
Why do you cite photon overcharge for this sphere thing? The projectile is comet shaped, not like the photon cannon or tempest projectiles.
Anyway, the protoss aesthetic has always been yellow metal (or the gray metal for DT stuff) + blue glowy stuff. I think the new units fit into that well. My only problem with the disruptor (the way it looks, anyway) is it spins around too fast.
You missed the point here. This isn't a plea to get the old units back, rather I was saying that compared to the new units and how unimaginative they are, it would've been better to just get 2 old ones back. Now, if Blizzard had put more imagination into these new ones, that may not have been the case.
Additionally, I agree with you, the Protoss aesthetic is more about what materials they use, and a general color scheme which applies to that, which further makes my point, if you're using the right material and colors, it doesn't all need to be the same spherical shape as well, this makes the overall look too dull.
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Yes it's quite obvious that the art design team isn't nearly as creative as in BW.
It's obvious with Zerg also. Just because the zerg is called the "swarm" doesn't mean they have to look like bugs. Almost every new unit the sc2 team added is either insect looking or insect themed, when traditionally the only zerg unit that ever looked like a bug was the larva. There have been threads about this, so I'm not being original here, but just to summarize briefly - roach, viper (dragonfly), locusts, zergling insect wings, infestor, etc.
In BW, the zerg unit art was so cool and original, none of the units looked like insects at all (except the larva). Like the hydralisk or mutalisk for instance - it would take a really talented artist to come up with these designs. The hydralisk is like equivalent to Giger's alien imo. One of the greatest alien design concepts ever.
https://www.google.com/search?q=giger alien art&espv=2&biw=1378&bih=754&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIzOyGgub0xwIVRZ2ACh23qg8M
The protoss sphere theme is out of control. The reaver model is undoubtedly cooler than the dirsuptor model.
And while we're nitpicking the art. Can we bring back the blue fire on hurt protoss structures? Please Blizzard?
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On September 14 2015 04:58 Little-Chimp wrote:
I think the tempest looks awesome, but I can agree that there's too many sphere units these days. I don't think any of them are particularly interesting looking, save for maybe the mama core.
I agree, sometimes the sphere theme makes sense, such as in the case of the core. It really is just a case of this theme being used way too much. For me the tipping point really has been the disruptor, which is overall a very poorly designed unit. You just look at it and say, great, another sphere, and oh look, it shoots other spheres...how original.
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On September 14 2015 05:03 hitpoint wrote:Yes it's quite obvious that the art design team isn't nearly as creative as in BW. It's obvious with Zerg also. Just because the zerg is called the "swarm" doesn't mean they have to look like bugs. Almost every new unit the sc2 team added is either insect looking or insect themed, when traditionally the only zerg unit that ever looked like a bug was the larva. There have been threads about this, so I'm not being original here, but just to summarize briefly - roach, viper (dragonfly), locusts, zergling insect wings, infestor, etc. In BW, the zerg unit art was so cool and original, none of the units looked like insects at all (except the larva). Like the hydralisk or mutalisk for instance - it would take a really talented artist to come up with these designs. The hydralisk is like equivalent to Giger's alien imo. One of the greatest alien design concepts ever. https://www.google.com/search?q=giger alien art&espv=2&biw=1378&bih=754&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIzOyGgub0xwIVRZ2ACh23qg8MThe protoss sphere theme is out of control. The reaver model is undoubtedly cooler than the dirsuptor model. And while we're nitpicking the art. Can we bring back the blue fire on hurt protoss structures? Please Blizzard?
the blue flame was cool but it didn't really make any sense
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On September 14 2015 05:03 hitpoint wrote:Yes it's quite obvious that the art design team isn't nearly as creative as in BW. It's obvious with Zerg also. Just because the zerg is called the "swarm" doesn't mean they have to look like bugs. Almost every new unit the sc2 team added is either insect looking or insect themed, when traditionally the only zerg unit that ever looked like a bug was the larva. There have been threads about this, so I'm not being original here, but just to summarize briefly - roach, viper (dragonfly), locusts, zergling insect wings, infestor, etc. In BW, the zerg unit art was so cool and original, none of the units looked like insects at all (except the larva). Like the hydralisk or mutalisk for instance - it would take a really talented artist to come up with these designs. The hydralisk is like equivalent to Giger's alien imo. One of the greatest alien design concepts ever. https://www.google.com/search?q=giger alien art&espv=2&biw=1378&bih=754&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIzOyGgub0xwIVRZ2ACh23qg8MThe protoss sphere theme is out of control. The reaver model is undoubtedly cooler than the dirsuptor model. And while we're nitpicking the art. Can we bring back the blue fire on hurt protoss structures? Please Blizzard?
Can't agree more with you, it really does seem like that creative spark just isn't there anymore. My first impression of the ravager was, "oh look, it's just a bigger roach." It does seem like the design is too stuck in cliche themes, not just for Protoss. And yes, please bring back the old blue flames on the buildings!
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On September 14 2015 05:08 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2015 05:03 hitpoint wrote:Yes it's quite obvious that the art design team isn't nearly as creative as in BW. It's obvious with Zerg also. Just because the zerg is called the "swarm" doesn't mean they have to look like bugs. Almost every new unit the sc2 team added is either insect looking or insect themed, when traditionally the only zerg unit that ever looked like a bug was the larva. There have been threads about this, so I'm not being original here, but just to summarize briefly - roach, viper (dragonfly), locusts, zergling insect wings, infestor, etc. In BW, the zerg unit art was so cool and original, none of the units looked like insects at all (except the larva). Like the hydralisk or mutalisk for instance - it would take a really talented artist to come up with these designs. The hydralisk is like equivalent to Giger's alien imo. One of the greatest alien design concepts ever. https://www.google.com/search?q=giger alien art&espv=2&biw=1378&bih=754&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIzOyGgub0xwIVRZ2ACh23qg8MThe protoss sphere theme is out of control. The reaver model is undoubtedly cooler than the dirsuptor model. And while we're nitpicking the art. Can we bring back the blue fire on hurt protoss structures? Please Blizzard? the blue flame was cool but it didn't really make any sense
It's a video game about an alien race. Being cool far outweighs making sense.
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I actually thought it was out of control with the oracle. There are just too many Energy Ball units. Namely I don't like how the Oracle, Core, Archons, and Disruptor are basically all just energy balls that do energy ball things.
The colossus looks cooler than disruptor imo.
I don't think the zerg stuff is the same though. They may be insect-themed, but they don't actually look like insects. Like Roaches don't look like cockroaches that much at all. Overseers, Corruptors, Infestors all look pretty bizarre and freaky. Brood Lords are more like Manta Rays. I also don't like how the Viper has a hydralisk face though (it'd be fine if they evolved from hydralisks which they don't).
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Pylons are the strongest protoss unit at the moment. They do not look scary enough. Fear them.
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There are many things I miss in SC2, when I think about Broodwar. The blue goo when a Dragoon dies, the metallic sounds Zealots make when they attack, the music, the desaturated, sinister color scheme, the sense that space is a dangerous place...
In comparison SC2 seems more cartoony, more "cosy", more cliche.
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On September 14 2015 05:41 DoubleReed wrote:
I don't think the zerg stuff is the same though. They may be insect-themed, but they don't actually look like insects. Like Roaches don't look like cockroaches that much at all. Overseers, Corruptors, Infestors all look pretty bizarre and freaky. Brood Lords are more like Manta Rays. I also don't like how the Viper has a hydralisk face though (it'd be fine if they evolved from hydralisks which they don't).
Corruptors and BLs are original and cool looking I'll admit. But I don't know how you can say an infestor doesn't look like an obese beetle. Overseer is just a modified overlord.
And yes to the guy above this, I also miss blue goo when a dragoon died.
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On September 14 2015 06:08 hitpoint wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2015 05:41 DoubleReed wrote:
I don't think the zerg stuff is the same though. They may be insect-themed, but they don't actually look like insects. Like Roaches don't look like cockroaches that much at all. Overseers, Corruptors, Infestors all look pretty bizarre and freaky. Brood Lords are more like Manta Rays. I also don't like how the Viper has a hydralisk face though (it'd be fine if they evolved from hydralisks which they don't). Corruptors and BLs are original and cool looking I'll admit. But I don't know how you can say an infestor doesn't look like an obese beetle. Overseer is just a modified overlord. And yes to the guy above this, I also miss blue goo when a dragoon died.
The BL, aesthetically, is just a modified Guardian...?
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The claims of the art team "lacking creativity" are pretty shallow. There is plenty of creativity in the art team for SC2. Blizzard's art teams are some of the best in the business.
The simple fact is that you guys just don't seem to like the conscious choices they made in the art direction.
With the Zerg, I completely agree. The Zerg looked more like reptiles or dinosaurs than insects in SC1. In SC2, the team made a very conscious decision to go with the insect theme, which I don't like.
I don't really see what the problem is with the Protoss aesthetic at all. This "circle" theme is there, but it's rather minor. I actually think it looks really good and gives the Protoss a unique and creative aesthetic.
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On September 14 2015 05:12 ThunderBum wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2015 05:08 brickrd wrote:On September 14 2015 05:03 hitpoint wrote:Yes it's quite obvious that the art design team isn't nearly as creative as in BW. It's obvious with Zerg also. Just because the zerg is called the "swarm" doesn't mean they have to look like bugs. Almost every new unit the sc2 team added is either insect looking or insect themed, when traditionally the only zerg unit that ever looked like a bug was the larva. There have been threads about this, so I'm not being original here, but just to summarize briefly - roach, viper (dragonfly), locusts, zergling insect wings, infestor, etc. In BW, the zerg unit art was so cool and original, none of the units looked like insects at all (except the larva). Like the hydralisk or mutalisk for instance - it would take a really talented artist to come up with these designs. The hydralisk is like equivalent to Giger's alien imo. One of the greatest alien design concepts ever. https://www.google.com/search?q=giger alien art&espv=2&biw=1378&bih=754&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIzOyGgub0xwIVRZ2ACh23qg8MThe protoss sphere theme is out of control. The reaver model is undoubtedly cooler than the dirsuptor model. And while we're nitpicking the art. Can we bring back the blue fire on hurt protoss structures? Please Blizzard? the blue flame was cool but it didn't really make any sense It's a video game about an alien race. Being cool far outweighs making sense.
it's not really that cool though. it's kind of cool and makes 0 sense. if it were super cool and made partial sense that would be different
there's a fine balance between maintaining a rational context for the game and doing what's fun/cool, but buildings burning blue is kind of stupid whether it looks good or not
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On September 14 2015 05:03 hitpoint wrote:
In BW, the zerg unit art was so cool and original, none of the units looked like insects at all (except the larva). Like the hydralisk or mutalisk for instance - it would take a really talented artist to come up with these designs. The hydralisk is like equivalent to Giger's alien imo. One of the greatest alien design concepts ever.
That's incorrect, at least if you mean more in the sense of 'bug' than specifically insects. The Hydralisk is literally inspired by the caterpillar, and the Queen's look - if you check out the more defined image in the manual, it doesn't really come out in her in-game sprite - was clearly inspired by the spider (the name of her original species is also 'arachnis brood-keeper'). As for the Defiler, it certainly looks bug-like to me, maybe something like a silverfish? And I'm not that knowledgeable about insects, so I couldn't tell you about the rest (though again, the core genus of the Drone is the gashyrr wasp, though I don't really see it).
Anyway, the Zerg have been pretty heavily bug themed from the start.
I will say that I liked the old tailed Sentry design more than the current snowglobe though.
On September 14 2015 06:48 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2015 06:08 hitpoint wrote:On September 14 2015 05:41 DoubleReed wrote:
I don't think the zerg stuff is the same though. They may be insect-themed, but they don't actually look like insects. Like Roaches don't look like cockroaches that much at all. Overseers, Corruptors, Infestors all look pretty bizarre and freaky. Brood Lords are more like Manta Rays. I also don't like how the Viper has a hydralisk face though (it'd be fine if they evolved from hydralisks which they don't). Corruptors and BLs are original and cool looking I'll admit. But I don't know how you can say an infestor doesn't look like an obese beetle. Overseer is just a modified overlord. And yes to the guy above this, I also miss blue goo when a dragoon died. The BL, aesthetically, is just a modified Guardian...?
What? No, they're modified Guardians in their gameplay roles, but aesthetically, the Guardian was a crab and the Brood Lord is a manta ray.
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Being inspired by something is fine. Almost copying it is not. Hydralisk/queen look very little like caterpillar/spider. So I'm fine with that. Just like I'm fine with the swarm host looking like a lotus pod/ frog thing. Or ultralisk looking vaguely like a mammoth. I didn't count their legs or body segments, but locusts, infestors, and vipers pretty much are insects.
On September 14 2015 06:48 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2015 06:08 hitpoint wrote:On September 14 2015 05:41 DoubleReed wrote:
I don't think the zerg stuff is the same though. They may be insect-themed, but they don't actually look like insects. Like Roaches don't look like cockroaches that much at all. Overseers, Corruptors, Infestors all look pretty bizarre and freaky. Brood Lords are more like Manta Rays. I also don't like how the Viper has a hydralisk face though (it'd be fine if they evolved from hydralisks which they don't). Corruptors and BLs are original and cool looking I'll admit. But I don't know how you can say an infestor doesn't look like an obese beetle. Overseer is just a modified overlord. And yes to the guy above this, I also miss blue goo when a dragoon died. The BL, aesthetically, is just a modified Guardian...?
You could argue that but I honestly don't see it. Google search the swarm guardian for that model.
On September 14 2015 07:14 brickrd wrote:
it's not really that cool though. it's kind of cool and makes 0 sense. if it were super cool and made partial sense that would be different
there's a fine balance between maintaining a rational context for the game and doing what's fun/cool, but buildings burning blue is kind of stupid whether it looks good or not
How doesn't it make sense? I've seen this posted elsewhere so It's a popular opinion, but I don't get it. It's fictional alien technology, why wouldn't it burn blue? There are compounds on earth that burn blue. Maybe it isn't even fire. Who knows.
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The BL, aesthetically, is just a modified Guardian...?
Guardians was supposed to be crab-like or lobster-like. Brood Lords are more like manta rays. Corruptors are squid.
Corruptors and BLs are original and cool looking I'll admit. But I don't know how you can say an infestor doesn't look like an obese beetle. Overseer is just a modified overlord.
I think Infestors are supposed to be like mollusks or slugs or something. Like they have a slime trail and a mollusk face. People think infestors look boring?
Obviously the overseer is a modified overlord, but it's pretty cool looking in of itself what with all the eyes everywhere.
Banelings are also awesome-looking, and I have no idea what inspired that look. The zerg units all have a huge amount of variety (even if they were all insects, insects have a huge amount of variety). I think the Protoss have an issue with energy balls doing energy ball things. Specifically the Oracle and the Disruptor.
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On September 14 2015 07:16 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2015 05:03 hitpoint wrote:
In BW, the zerg unit art was so cool and original, none of the units looked like insects at all (except the larva). Like the hydralisk or mutalisk for instance - it would take a really talented artist to come up with these designs. The hydralisk is like equivalent to Giger's alien imo. One of the greatest alien design concepts ever. That's incorrect, at least if you mean more in the sense of 'bug' than specifically insects. The Hydralisk is literally inspired by the caterpillar, and the Queen's look - if you check out the more defined image in the manual, it doesn't really come out in her in-game sprite - was clearly inspired by the spider (the name of her original species is also 'arachnis brood-keeper'). As for the Defiler, it certainly looks bug-like to me, maybe something like a silverfish? And I'm not that knowledgeable about insects, so I couldn't tell you about the rest (though again, the core genus of the Drone is the gashyrr wasp, though I don't really see it). Anyway, the Zerg have been pretty heavily bug themed from the start. I will say that I liked the old tailed Sentry design more than the current snowglobe though. Show nested quote +On September 14 2015 06:48 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 14 2015 06:08 hitpoint wrote:On September 14 2015 05:41 DoubleReed wrote:
I don't think the zerg stuff is the same though. They may be insect-themed, but they don't actually look like insects. Like Roaches don't look like cockroaches that much at all. Overseers, Corruptors, Infestors all look pretty bizarre and freaky. Brood Lords are more like Manta Rays. I also don't like how the Viper has a hydralisk face though (it'd be fine if they evolved from hydralisks which they don't). Corruptors and BLs are original and cool looking I'll admit. But I don't know how you can say an infestor doesn't look like an obese beetle. Overseer is just a modified overlord. And yes to the guy above this, I also miss blue goo when a dragoon died. The BL, aesthetically, is just a modified Guardian...? What? No, they're modified Guardians in their gameplay roles, but aesthetically, the Guardian was a crab and the Brood Lord is a manta ray.
How do these two not look alike??+ Show Spoiler +
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EPT![[image loading]](http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/070/5/3/zerg_guardian_by_phillgonzo-d5xrdji.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/starcraft/images/e/ee/BroodLord_SC2_Rend1.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110212030028)
