I would really like to have extra usage for chronoboost as I sincerely find it lacking and very limited in usage, especially when compared to other races.
Top of my head: 1- Chronoboosting a nexus increases mining speed on all probes using the nexus if the nexus is idle, otherwise it just speeds up probe build time like normal. 2-Chronoboosting a unit increases its speed. This can be useful for big units like carrier. It can also be implemented to increase the speed of the units around the target as well.
Of course such changes will need to be carefully considered and might even require additional unit balance but frankly I think LotV is a great opportunity to make things a bit more interesting for chronoboost.
I am always using my chronoboost and constantly out of energy. I'm not sure where one would have all this extra chronoboost available. I am by no means a pro but....
Post Probe Chrono: - Chrono on upgrades constantly. Literally any upgrade possible: Weapons, Armor, Blink, Range... - Chrono on warpgates during battles if I'm past the worker and upgrade stage or absolutely need extra units. - Chrono on observers for that "oh f*ck" moment and you need one
Chrono boost fills its current roll extremely well.
On July 21 2015 01:17 BisuDagger wrote: I am always using my chronoboost and constantly out of energy. I'm not sure where one would have all this extra chronoboost available. I am by no means a pro but....
Post Probe Chrono: - Chrono on upgrades constantly. Literally any upgrade possible: Weapons, Armor, Blink, Range... - Chrono on warpgates during battles if I'm past the worker and upgrade stage or absolutely need extra units. - Chrono on observers for that "oh f*ck" moment and you need one
Chrono boost fills its current roll extremely well.
I do absolutely agree although I think chronoboost effectiveness has been its own bane. Research times has been increased on many techs just because of chronoboost and consequently chronoboost became just a must rather than a choice on these research times. It's now just a boring ability that makes your essential timing possible nothing more. Moreover, late game it becomes much less useful when you already have your techs and tons of gateways and multiple robo or stargates. I believe a change in some way would be really good to the game.
On July 21 2015 01:17 BisuDagger wrote: I am always using my chronoboost and constantly out of energy. I'm not sure where one would have all this extra chronoboost available. I am by no means a pro but....
Post Probe Chrono: - Chrono on upgrades constantly. Literally any upgrade possible: Weapons, Armor, Blink, Range... - Chrono on warpgates during battles if I'm past the worker and upgrade stage or absolutely need extra units. - Chrono on observers for that "oh f*ck" moment and you need one
Chrono boost fills its current roll extremely well.
I do absolutely agree although I think chronoboost effectiveness has been its own bane. Research times has been increased on many techs just because of chronoboost and consequently chronoboost became just a must rather than a choice on these research times. It's now just a boring ability that makes your essential timing possible nothing more. Moreover, late game it becomes much less useful when you already have your techs and tons of gateways and multiple robo or stargates. I believe a change in some way would be really good to the game.
You made a point I actually agree with now. It's kind of sill to think chrono was given to protoss to speed things up if you are good and use it effectively. But if research times etc. have been balanced around top level players who chrono efficiently then yeah it kinda makes the ability moot. To contribute to your OP, I do agree if chrono was to contribute additionally an enhanced speed movement on unitys would be a pretty cool thing. Its not like there is an abundance of it, but to chrono boost a warp prism in order to speed it up and save it from death would be really sick play.
I just feel like Terran and Zerg have better alternate uses, or choices of their base energy mechanic.
Tumors, and transfuse can be used with excess energy and theres a big choice with scan or mule as well (as well as the occasional supply drop)
Chronoboost is basically just like a larva inject. When you want to produce units or go for a timing - larva inject will turn to units, When you go for economy larva inject produces extra workers.
Id much prefer an alternate ability. Perhaps defensive like "50 energy, for 20 seconds units within 14 Range of the Target nexus will gain 1 Shield armor and will recharge 5 Shield / second even while in combat"
I think wth something along those lines, you should remove photon overcharge which is a poorly designed spell. Its incredibly potent vs low amounts of units, even without having any units yourself. Protoss should be rewarded for making defensive units, not for teching as quickly as possible.
On July 21 2015 02:18 purakushi wrote: chronoboost cannons so they shoot faster
This would work great. For people who hate photon overcharge, that ability could be used to instead buff cannons too. By the time this is out cannon rush stages are over anyway.
On July 21 2015 02:16 weikor wrote: I just feel like Terran and Zerg have better alternate uses, or choices of their base energy mechanic.
Tumors, and transfuse can be used with excess energy and theres a big choice with scan or mule as well (as well as the occasional supply drop)
Chronoboost is basically just like a larva inject. When you want to produce units or go for a timing - larva inject will turn to units, When you go for economy larva inject produces extra workers.
Id much prefer an alternate ability. Perhaps defensive like "50 energy, for 20 seconds units within 14 Range of the Target nexus will gain 1 Shield armor and will recharge 5 Shield / second even while in combat"
I think wth something along those lines, you should remove photon overcharge which is a poorly designed spell. Its incredibly potent vs low amounts of units, even without having any units yourself. Protoss should be rewarded for making defensive units, not for teching as quickly as possible.
or just have the nexus act exactly like the BW shield battery, exchanging energy directly for shield HP on a single target unit.
On July 21 2015 02:16 weikor wrote: I just feel like Terran and Zerg have better alternate uses, or choices of their base energy mechanic.
Tumors, and transfuse can be used with excess energy and theres a big choice with scan or mule as well (as well as the occasional supply drop)
Chronoboost is basically just like a larva inject. When you want to produce units or go for a timing - larva inject will turn to units, When you go for economy larva inject produces extra workers.
Id much prefer an alternate ability. Perhaps defensive like "50 energy, for 20 seconds units within 14 Range of the Target nexus will gain 1 Shield armor and will recharge 5 Shield / second even while in combat"
I think wth something along those lines, you should remove photon overcharge which is a poorly designed spell. Its incredibly potent vs low amounts of units, even without having any units yourself. Protoss should be rewarded for making defensive units, not for teching as quickly as possible.
Unfortunately I think what you suggest has the same problem that has been plaguing the nexus macro: tech timings has been balanced around chronoboost, using chronoboost on early abilities might mess with this timing. That's why I suggested something that can be useful a bit later in the game when you're not rushing for an essential tech. There are definitely ways to get around this though if they do intend th change how chronoboost interact with research and with buildings. However I think we'll be asking for too much give that (hopefully) they are considering some big changes for the protoss; who knows with those changes we might not need photon overcharge.
Crucial tech has been timed so that it's not broken if you use all your chrono on it. That's okay. If someone doesn't scout you pouring all your chrono into warpgate/Blink/+1 attack you WILL still mess them up.
Chrono is very flexible.. you can use it to speed up upgrades, vital units (colossus, observer, etc.) or to produce workers faster.
Please no... There are way too many ability using possibilities as is, I think. I like streamlined, simple things... Well, SC2 is not going my way anyway.
If you really want new uses for chrono just for the sake of all buildings except pylons not being enough, then I think chronoboosting units should affect cooldown of abilities and mana regen rate. Also shield regen, why not.
I would like to see additional mule use as well, for example using mules to mine gas, using mules to do fast repair, fast construction of buildings, etc.
On July 21 2015 05:52 Loccstana wrote: I would like to see additional mule use as well, for example using mules to mine gas, using mules to do fast repair, fast construction of buildings, etc.
My Zerg brothers:
Can we collectively agree and say NO to a MULE buff?
Other than chronoing cannons, the only other use I could see is chronoboosting casters to regain energy quicker. Or maybe like a shield recharge.
It could even function as a energy transfer and to balance abuse it could be made to only work in a power field. I mean buildings are already in power fields so that doesn't change.
On July 21 2015 05:52 Loccstana wrote: I would like to see additional mule use as well, for example using mules to mine gas, using mules to do fast repair, fast construction of buildings, etc.
This. I am all for an extra use for Chrono if Terrans can get mules mining gas and constructing buildings faster. I do not feel that the current CC energy options are that much better than Z or P, just different.
Could chronoboost maybe be used to provide nearby buildings or units with in-combat shield regen for some extra defensive purposes? I don't think you can make it global due to potential cannon rushes, but for defensive purposes? Maybe it has to be combined with the mothership core -> cast nexus cannon on nexus -> allow nexus to cast chronoboost on buildings/units to provide additional shielding. It would probably be too complex/vague, but maybe it can be simplified somehow.
On July 21 2015 05:52 Loccstana wrote: I would like to see additional mule use as well, for example using mules to mine gas, using mules to do fast repair, fast construction of buildings, etc.
On the contrary, I'd like to have chronoboost limited to economic use only. Instead of a universal "speeding up" function, turn it into a "free-probe" spell that warps in a probe, or a "free-money" spell, as something similar to the mule, allowing all surrounding probes to carry 50% more minerals per trip from a mineral patch to the nexus in a short period of time.
On July 21 2015 02:18 purakushi wrote: chronoboost cannons so they shoot faster
This would work great. For people who hate photon overcharge, that ability could be used to instead buff cannons too. By the time this is out cannon rush stages are over anyway.
It should, but it would probably imbalanced for rushes for the same reason that Gateways have long build times... Because you don't pay to access the macrobooster like other races, so you can just bank it from minute 0, and prepare a chronoboosted rush.
Add a requirement to prevent it (for example, CyberCore needed to chronoboost) and you can buff Gateways and give it to cannons (specially because cannons are weak compared to other static defense)
I think all these ideas said above make sense and would be cool: - Chrono Cannons to shoot faster (with some requirements to stop super Cannon rushes) - Chrono Mothership Core to morph into Mothership faster - Chrono Carrier to build Interceptors faster (would be cool just to have this option; I don't think it would actually be used, though)
And what I thought about is - Chrono Pylons so they warp in units faster - Chrono Assimilators to speed up gas mining. For example, Probes would instantly (or after a very short time) return from the Assimilator. This would allow for more Probes to effectively mine from the Assimilator, and with constant Chornoing, it would increase the gas income, but at the same time slow down the production, because you wouldn't Chrono the production buildings. - Chrono could regenerate shields in combat as well (it already does boost it, but obviously not in combat).
On July 21 2015 05:52 Loccstana wrote: I would like to see additional mule use as well, for example using mules to mine gas, using mules to do fast repair, fast construction of buildings, etc.
On the contrary, I'd like to have chronoboost limited to economic use only. Instead of a universal "speeding up" function, turn it into a "free-probe" spell that warps in a probe, or a "free-money" spell, as something similar to the mule, allowing all surrounding probes to carry 50% more minerals per trip from a mineral patch to the nexus in a short period of time.
Why? Isn't the current chronoboost more interesting than this? Every energy source for the so-called macromechanics can be converted into something other than pure economy. You have the queen with Heal and Creep tumors, and the OC with Scans.
On July 21 2015 05:52 Loccstana wrote: I would like to see additional mule use as well, for example using mules to mine gas, using mules to do fast repair, fast construction of buildings, etc.
On the contrary, I'd like to have chronoboost limited to economic use only. Instead of a universal "speeding up" function, turn it into a "free-probe" spell that warps in a probe, or a "free-money" spell, as something similar to the mule, allowing all surrounding probes to carry 50% more minerals per trip from a mineral patch to the nexus in a short period of time.
Why? Isn't the current chronoboost more interesting than this? Every energy source for the so-called macromechanics can be converted into something other than pure economy. You have the queen with Heal and Creep tumors, and the OC with Scans.
And the MSC with Mass Recall, Photon Overcharge and a slowing spell.
But there has to be compensations if Chrono is boosted in some way
It is already very strong and Protoss early game shenanigans would be even stronger, if not totally broken, as you do not need to pay for it unlike Terran.
Perhaps add some extra abilities to the CC, Nexus and Queen energy but have a base requirement for Protoss, such as a Cybernetics core or a researchable upgrade.
Balance is irrelevant when you are coming up with new idea. That's a point that many of the posters do not understand - and seemingly also Blizzard sadly fails in this department. The current balance of the game is based on very specific set of circumstances and totally unforeseen interaction bewteen timings of different races. Many things would be OP in vaccum, but are perfectly fine in the great picture.
That great picture is completely inacessible when making a change in a particular aspect. So the only way to have any substantial novetly is to try whatever comes to mind, see what are the consequences and then balance by litle details. Usually the amount of balancing needed is very small as even tiny number changes can completely swing the balance because of snowballing. Hopefully everyones remembers the Queen range ... So I would really suggest people do not bring much of balance concerns when vague ideas are discussed, it does not make much sense.
That being said, any expansion to Chrono in it's current state will be very miniscule if effect, because Chrono is already in short supply in the parts of the game where it matters. Chronoing a single unit to recharge shields when you could have had an extra probe, or Blink finishing 15 second earlier? I don't think that's gone see much play. But why not have it, just for fun. In general SC2 is unnecesarrily limited in possibilities, if something is not very used, it usually gets removed or left to die. There should be more of "the little things" that are extremley rare, but make you appreciate the cleverness of the player when he uses them once in a blue moon to a great effect.
Balance is irrelevant when you are coming up with new idea.
Not sure that that is true - keeping balance somewhat in mind should help keep the ideas reasonable. If I suggest that the Chronoboost should be able to be used to warp in an offensive unit, regardless of whether you have the supporting production facility, then that is obviously broken and not workable. This way we do not waste time theory-crafting or beta testing. When making a suggestion you have to ask what impact is this likely to have on the game, what counters exist?
As we are talking Protoss here, the ability should probably NOT help offensively in the early game as adepts and oracles already shred well enough without boosts.
I personally think that what's needed is for Chrono to do something mundane (like supply drop) that shows up every now and then. Shit like "temporary energy field" to allow placement, but not powering of buildings. Silly things like that to make it visually look like Chrono has multiple uses
Chrono Boost is the perfect example of micro that is "not seen and doesn't show off the player's skill" Blizz keeps talking about. I'm sure adding some more utility to it would be a step in the right direction.
A random idea would be that it increases the shield regen speed of a unit X times, if it's inside an Y radius inside the nexus. So if you defend the first wave of a roach all-in and an immortal survives, you could help it gain the shields back for the second wave. Basically the shield battery that everyone loves, but not as good because it can't be used during combat.
On July 21 2015 21:04 opisska wrote: Balance is irrelevant when you are coming up with new idea.
Also, balance is relative. The right way to balance is to make everything seemingly imba in their own ways and then collectively, as a result, none of them is imba. It's like when both you and your neighbor are millionaires, none of you feel like a millionaire. Nerfing everything down to the same low level for "balance" is based on a communist mind set. That would only make everything homogenous thus killing all the fun.
On July 21 2015 21:04 opisska wrote: Balance is irrelevant when you are coming up with new idea.
Also, balance is relative. The right way to balance is to make everything seemingly imba in their own ways and then collectively, as a result, none of them is imba. It's like when both you and your neighbor are millionaires, none of you feel like a millionaire. Nerfing everything down to the same low level for "balance" is based on a communist mind set. That would only make everything homogenous thus killing all the fun.
I think that is what they already do thus leading to insta-wins, hard counters everywhere and terrible, terrible damage. Not a good way to do it. The game designers must be able to think these things though.
On July 21 2015 21:04 opisska wrote: Balance is irrelevant when you are coming up with new idea.
Also, balance is relative. The right way to balance is to make everything seemingly imba in their own ways and then collectively, as a result, none of them is imba. It's like when both you and your neighbor are millionaires, none of you feel like a millionaire. Nerfing everything down to the same low level for "balance" is based on a communist mind set. That would only make everything homogenous thus killing all the fun.
I think that is what they already do thus leading to insta-wins, hard counters everywhere and terrible, terrible damage. Not a good way to do it. The game designers must be able to think these things though.
Wow, look at your signature and my username? Did we just have a bipartisan agreement? Haha!
On July 21 2015 21:04 opisska wrote: Balance is irrelevant when you are coming up with new idea.
Also, balance is relative. The right way to balance is to make everything seemingly imba in their own ways and then collectively, as a result, none of them is imba. It's like when both you and your neighbor are millionaires, none of you feel like a millionaire. Nerfing everything down to the same low level for "balance" is based on a communist mind set. That would only make everything homogenous thus killing all the fun.
I think that is what they already do thus leading to insta-wins, hard counters everywhere and terrible, terrible damage. Not a good way to do it. The game designers must be able to think these things though.
Wow, look at your signature and my username? Did we just have a bipartisan agreement? Haha!
Well SC2 brings people together. Unless you are the Trump of SC2 (Avilo I am looking at you here).
EPT
