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LotV Patch 2.5.3 + Update Preview - July 13 - Page 10

Forum Index > Legacy of the Void
220 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 Next All
usopsama
Profile Joined April 2008
6502 Posts
July 15 2015 01:31 GMT
#181
Where are the polls?
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
July 15 2015 01:36 GMT
#182
On July 15 2015 10:15 ZackAttack wrote:
Does anybody know why this patch is so big?

Probably campaign or something being added in?

My download is at 0 B/s right now
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24202 Posts
July 15 2015 01:54 GMT
#183
Nerf adepts Jesus... Or at least adepts all-ins, they're just ridiculous.
shin_toss
Profile Joined May 2010
Philippines2589 Posts
July 15 2015 02:10 GMT
#184
I hope these changes fixes my frames/crashing issues too ...

I like the Liberator buff!
AKMU / IU
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
July 15 2015 02:51 GMT
#185
On July 15 2015 10:36 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2015 10:15 ZackAttack wrote:
Does anybody know why this patch is so big?

Probably campaign or something being added in?

My download is at 0 B/s right now

And now I'm downloading twice as fast as I've ever seen on this computer...
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
vesicular
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1310 Posts
July 15 2015 03:02 GMT
#186
On July 14 2015 17:04 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Okay, after trying the ladder out for myself, I have come to the conclusion that if this is the economy model they go with, I will not be buying LotV. It is WAY TOO FAST. All it does it punish players who aren't high level, and makes the game more stressful to play. I this it does increase the skill ceiling, but it also raises the skill floor significantly to the point where a HotS Plat player like me can barely keep up with LotV at all.


I said this before in prior beta threads. The new economy will kill Gold league and below, for the reasons you've stated. Low level players will not want to play this quickly. Since the majority of players are at the bottom, I'm worried the game will become too niche (ie, hardcore).
STX Fighting!
shin_toss
Profile Joined May 2010
Philippines2589 Posts
July 15 2015 03:16 GMT
#187
but if you're playing against people with same skill level.. its okay.
AKMU / IU
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10673 Posts
July 15 2015 03:23 GMT
#188
When will there be clan support again? Anyone know? Guess this is a stupid question T_T
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19234 Posts
July 15 2015 03:31 GMT
#189
On July 15 2015 12:02 vesicular wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2015 17:04 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Okay, after trying the ladder out for myself, I have come to the conclusion that if this is the economy model they go with, I will not be buying LotV. It is WAY TOO FAST. All it does it punish players who aren't high level, and makes the game more stressful to play. I this it does increase the skill ceiling, but it also raises the skill floor significantly to the point where a HotS Plat player like me can barely keep up with LotV at all.


I said this before in prior beta threads. The new economy will kill Gold league and below, for the reasons you've stated. Low level players will not want to play this quickly. Since the majority of players are at the bottom, I'm worried the game will become too niche (ie, hardcore).

Why speak for gold level players? It is all speculation. I'd like to see vanilla and low teir players get their hands on the beta and truly see how they respond. It's kind of hard to say this will punish low level players when their opponent is also low level and has the same disadvantages. We have no data to make the assumptions in either direction.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
July 15 2015 04:09 GMT
#190
On July 14 2015 05:30 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2015 05:01 DinoMight wrote:
On July 14 2015 04:50 Beelzebub1 wrote:
On July 14 2015 04:39 MaestroMaus wrote:
On July 14 2015 04:25 blae000 wrote:
I lose more and more interest for every post I read from blizz that does not include anything related to economy changes but does include "new ability"..


Posts like this and other posts I read at the blizz forums with content such as:
"toss still not fixed" "economy still not changed" "toss still not deleted" "terran still imba" "terran still M&M&M tier 1 bullshit"
A. Isn't constructive.
B. Adds to the toxic sphere right now in the community.
C. Completely bypasses the fact that LOTV is still months away and might bring the change you want.
D. Completely bypasses the fact that most of the people in this comment thread can't even play the beta yet and are either theory crafting or going by beta tournaments they saw on streams.

Sure; your allowed to debate. Sure; you are allowed to voice your opinion. But at least be constructive and mature about it instead of throwing a tantrum that you aren't getting change x you want so badly.



I agree with this, half of the economy and Protoss design whiners are all the same exact people posting the exact same thing on multiple threads, I question sometimes if these people even play the beta or if they just sit there and theory craft.

By the way, for my constructive post on the matter

1. Zealot Legs at Twilight Council/Charge removed from game so Zealots can be fast and benefit from great control, Charge is stupid, A move, and to make Charge NOT stupid requires weird design changes, just be done with it, it sucks.

2. Adept shield upgrade changed to + dmg vs. armored or chain damage they are tanky enough they just get outclassed
the further the game goes they need a little "bump" in the mid to late game.

3. Stalkers are awesome, don't touch them, anyone that says otherwise hasn't faced blink/sentry.



Why don't people get this... YOU CANNOT REMOVE CHARGE AND KEEP CONCUSSIVE SHELLS. I'm all for faster Zealots that can be microed etc. but concussive shells flat out kill any micro potential.

I feel like Concussive Shells is a bandaid gone wrong anyway. In the early game it helps you survive, especially against gateway all-ins, because it allows you to micro more easily even against units that are faster than your own (pre stim and medivacs), while later on it just removes micro potential for the opponents (while yours is in tact through stim and medivacs) and often allows you to kill units for free.


So, like the forcefield?
maru G5L pls
CometNine
Profile Joined March 2012
New Zealand87 Posts
July 15 2015 04:24 GMT
#191
On July 15 2015 12:31 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2015 12:02 vesicular wrote:
On July 14 2015 17:04 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Okay, after trying the ladder out for myself, I have come to the conclusion that if this is the economy model they go with, I will not be buying LotV. It is WAY TOO FAST. All it does it punish players who aren't high level, and makes the game more stressful to play. I this it does increase the skill ceiling, but it also raises the skill floor significantly to the point where a HotS Plat player like me can barely keep up with LotV at all.


I said this before in prior beta threads. The new economy will kill Gold league and below, for the reasons you've stated. Low level players will not want to play this quickly. Since the majority of players are at the bottom, I'm worried the game will become too niche (ie, hardcore).

Why speak for gold level players? It is all speculation. I'd like to see vanilla and low teir players get their hands on the beta and truly see how they respond. It's kind of hard to say this will punish low level players when their opponent is also low level and has the same disadvantages. We have no data to make the assumptions in either direction.


^ This. In HotS - I'm a gold league player at the moment. My mechanics are average to bad and I play random on the Ladder so I generally have an idea of all build orders for all three matchups + mirrors.

What decides who wins or loses the games I play is army composition, supply and builder orders...never the economy. The times we gold league players expand are so varied from the optimal expansion timing combined with our terrible macro, I very much doubt a sped up economy / less mineral patches will stop us from playing the game.

I'll give you an example, played a ZvZ yesterday on bridgehead and it was 3 base (him) vs 5 base (me). We engaged armies at 200/200 supply with Roach/Hydra (3/2) vs Roach/Hydra/Viper (2/2) (me).
Despite getting two really good binding clouds off, I lost the engagement due to a poor concave and the upgrade difference and was forced to retreat to my spines. When he counter attacked (about a min later) I was already rallying new units + my 3/3 had completed combined with the spines I easily held it off. I maxed out to 200/200 again (5 bases with lots of larvae...really quick) walked over to the otherside and killed him.

Point I'm trying to make is that the lower leagues...resources isn't so much of the problem. It's making the right mix of units, positioning and knowing where to attack. If the dude went and attacked my 5th base while running lings to the backdoor rocks that he broke down earlier in the game... I'd have probably lost the game. But hey, we're gold league so we make stupid decisions lol.

I hope I can get a beta invite, along with some other goldies. I'm more curious to see how 2v2s, 3v3s and 4v4s will play out with the economy changes. I suspect that's where /ragequit stuff is gonna happen for sure.
"Building Armour Upgrade is the new meta" - Gretorp (2012)
CptMarvel
Profile Joined May 2014
France236 Posts
July 15 2015 05:23 GMT
#192
Complaining about changes being bad for low level players doesn't seem relevant to me. Raising the skill floor and ceiling is, at this point, the only way to make SC2 a better game. The systematic casual-izing of their products is what has brought Blizzard to its current mediocrity.
I like the new snipe, it's a lot more Ghost-ish than the uber-retarded drone ability they tried to implement.
I don't like the fact that they don't even consider changing the Liberator's model. It's almost as horrible and underwhelming as their air2air attack animation (ye, better change that too).
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
July 15 2015 07:38 GMT
#193
Now change the new Snipe to become Lockdown vs Mech and massive burst vs Bio and I'll agree they did a proper job to make the unit useful and not overly specialized.
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
July 15 2015 07:40 GMT
#194
Siege Tank is SO bad in its role that the Liberator is implemented to take it over.
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
TedCruz2016
Profile Joined November 2014
Hong Kong271 Posts
July 15 2015 08:03 GMT
#195
On July 14 2015 05:21 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2015 03:26 pieroog wrote:
I like those changes a lot (especially to Disruptor) but..... isn't 170dmg with a Ghost's Snipe too much?

170 seems alrght:

Kills any Terran bio unit (Marine, Marauder, Ghost, Reaper, SCV, Hellbat) and any Protoss bio unit (Zealot, HT, DT, Adept) in one shot. Assuming it has a balanced energy cost or the 3 second thing ends up being a big deal, the only real targets for those two races are the spellcasters and DT's. And 3 seconds means they can cast some spells or have a chance to interrupt the damage.

So really it's a TvZ-focused spell, and would especially be useful for the new ultras (3 snipes = ded ultra). Could also deal with Lurkers or Brood Lords, not killing them outright but getting them close enough so that either a second snipe or a few auxiliary forces can deal with them easily. Think 2012 fungal vs. lings, baneling vs drones or BW storm vs lurker/muta. So I like this direction.


It's gonna be scarier than you thought it would be:

- Although it can be cancelled during the 3-second channelling, a ghost can snipe while cloaked. That makes it very difficult to stop it if the overseer gets sniped first.
- Only 25 energy cost, which allows ghost to fire one shot after another and remain cloaked.
- Based on the description, there's no escape!
Make DC listen!
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9376 Posts
July 15 2015 08:11 GMT
#196
- Only 25 energy cost, which allows ghost to fire one shot after another and remain cloaked.


Eh, don't think it will maintain its energy cost.
Meavis
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Netherlands1300 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-15 08:13:48
July 15 2015 08:13 GMT
#197
On July 14 2015 03:08 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Added minimap icons for destructible rocks and towers

With the high rate at which maps rotate in and out of the ladder, we wanted to give some support in this area for Void. These were the two main things that were missing on the minimap, so we’ve added icons to indicate where the destructible units are on the map.


that's nice, but I don't get how it is related to map rotation speed, which they again state to be high, half a year on average seems pretty slow to me.
"Not you."
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
July 15 2015 08:34 GMT
#198
On July 15 2015 12:31 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2015 12:02 vesicular wrote:
On July 14 2015 17:04 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Okay, after trying the ladder out for myself, I have come to the conclusion that if this is the economy model they go with, I will not be buying LotV. It is WAY TOO FAST. All it does it punish players who aren't high level, and makes the game more stressful to play. I this it does increase the skill ceiling, but it also raises the skill floor significantly to the point where a HotS Plat player like me can barely keep up with LotV at all.


I said this before in prior beta threads. The new economy will kill Gold league and below, for the reasons you've stated. Low level players will not want to play this quickly. Since the majority of players are at the bottom, I'm worried the game will become too niche (ie, hardcore).

Why speak for gold level players? It is all speculation. I'd like to see vanilla and low teir players get their hands on the beta and truly see how they respond. It's kind of hard to say this will punish low level players when their opponent is also low level and has the same disadvantages. We have no data to make the assumptions in either direction.


I am platinum in HotS and consider myself pretty bad, yet I enjoy LotV. At the current state I enjoy LotV even more than HoTS, because it lacks what irritates me in HotS the most - highly refined all-ins. On one hand yes, this is going to change with time as people get better at this, on the other hand the 12-worker start makes it seem a little bit harder to do. If something is really unfriendly to casual players, it is these refined attacks that require a precise response, else you are dead.

Also, after getting back to HotS for a while, I noticed that a really big difference for me is the Lurker. In HotS there is not really unit "go-to" unit that I could get no matter what and have a good time with, I really need to watch the enemy vigorously and think about the right composition, everything has strong weaknesses. Not the Lurker, it just shreds everything on the ground beynd belief - that's probably a bad thing competitively, but for casual play, it really makes things so much easier to have this "if you don't know what to do, build some Lurkers".

The economy is not that different, really. If you suck at macro in HotS, you suck at LotV - in both games you get equally sucky oponents, so there is not that much difference. On the other hand, in LotV there is actually a bigger room to do better in macro and expanding and thus you have more space to defeat your oponent just by macroing better and amoving the units in their general direciton, which is much easier in my opinion that vigorously microing armies to get that small edge.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
TedCruz2016
Profile Joined November 2014
Hong Kong271 Posts
July 15 2015 08:53 GMT
#199
On July 15 2015 17:11 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
- Only 25 energy cost, which allows ghost to fire one shot after another and remain cloaked.


Eh, don't think it will maintain its energy cost.


What if it does? As it was mentioned, 3 second is a long time. It takes about the equal amount of time to siege or unsiege a tank, and we all know what difference can these three seconds make. So, if you want to cast it safely, cloak is a must.

That being said, I think ghost should have a skill that disables a single target like Zeratul's in the WoL campaign, a lockdown against bio - including spines and spores, perhaps - instead of mech units. That would be much more effective against ultras.
Make DC listen!
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
July 15 2015 08:56 GMT
#200
I dislike the direction the Liberator is taking. There is already the Banshee and BC as air to ground. To much overlapping now, like with the Factory and Cyclone-Tank-Thor. If Terran needs a stronger long range siege weapon, buff the Tank. This is not C&C where you have 10 units that do the same thing is slightly different ways, it Starcraft FFS
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
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