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On July 15 2015 17:56 Sapphire.lux wrote:
I dislike the direction the Liberator is taking. There is already the Banshee and BC as air to ground. To much overlapping now, like with the Factory and Cyclone-Tank-Thor. If Terran needs a stronger long range siege weapon, buff the Tank. This is not C&C where you have 10 units that do the same thing is slightly different ways, it Starcraft FFS
Isn't the tank buffed already? You can now have it perfectly blended in the bioball play.
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On July 15 2015 12:02 vesicular wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2015 17:04 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Okay, after trying the ladder out for myself, I have come to the conclusion that if this is the economy model they go with, I will not be buying LotV. It is WAY TOO FAST. All it does it punish players who aren't high level, and makes the game more stressful to play. I this it does increase the skill ceiling, but it also raises the skill floor significantly to the point where a HotS Plat player like me can barely keep up with LotV at all. I said this before in prior beta threads. The new economy will kill Gold league and below, for the reasons you've stated. Low level players will not want to play this quickly. Since the majority of players are at the bottom, I'm worried the game will become too niche (ie, hardcore).
I do not understand this statement. If the game is harder for everybody, (and it is), then it simply means
that you AND the opponent will struggle. You seem to forget that everybody has to deal with the higher skill ceiling, that implies bronze will stay bronze as will diamond stay diamond. I actually really disliked the fact that
the first 5 minutes of the game were such a waste of times if you don´t to proxy shit, and thats why i enjoy much more
the LotV version. Not saying the current state is optimal, just much better for me personally as a player and
even more as a viewer. Of course everbody has a different opinion and that is why we are discussing. 
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On July 15 2015 18:16 IceBerrY wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2015 12:02 vesicular wrote:On July 14 2015 17:04 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Okay, after trying the ladder out for myself, I have come to the conclusion that if this is the economy model they go with, I will not be buying LotV. It is WAY TOO FAST. All it does it punish players who aren't high level, and makes the game more stressful to play. I this it does increase the skill ceiling, but it also raises the skill floor significantly to the point where a HotS Plat player like me can barely keep up with LotV at all. I said this before in prior beta threads. The new economy will kill Gold league and below, for the reasons you've stated. Low level players will not want to play this quickly. Since the majority of players are at the bottom, I'm worried the game will become too niche (ie, hardcore). I do not understand this statement. If the game is harder for everybody, (and it is), then it simply means that you AND the opponent will struggle. You seem to forget that everybody has to deal with the higher skill ceiling, that implies bronze will stay bronze as will diamond stay diamond. I actually really disliked the fact that the first 5 minutes of the game were such a waste of times if you don´t to proxy shit, and thats why i enjoy much more the LotV version. Not saying the current state is optimal, just much better for me personally as a player and even more as a viewer. Of course everbody has a different opinion and that is why we are discussing.
The thing with the "it's harder for everyone" line of thought is that this is plainly from a competitive point of view. But that doesnt make it more enjoyable or justifies playing starcraft. People are rather noobs in LoL than noobs in starcraft, because starcraft is too hard for noobs to feel like "playing". (and other reasons of course too)
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OK I gave the game a chance and actually very few things should be required for the game to be playable as P.
1) Remove one of the range or damage nerf on the colossus. You can't rely on disruptors and storms solely against T.
2) Nerf adepts so that they don't dominate every mu early game (PvP and PvZ lol). They can stay as they are lategame.
3) Nerf lurkers (may not be needed if 1 is range).
I have no idea about design but the game would be playable with those slight tweaks.
I guess Z drops should be lair tech but maybe this is fine, I dunno. I would definitely make sieged tanks loadable but they would lose siege when dropped too, but that doesn't affect P too much I'd say.
Does anyone else feel mines trigger much easier than before with the indicator ? By the way I'm overwhelmed by all the indicators (mines, cyclones, tempests...) they should really make it customizable IMO.
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On July 15 2015 17:34 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2015 12:31 BisuDagger wrote:On July 15 2015 12:02 vesicular wrote:On July 14 2015 17:04 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Okay, after trying the ladder out for myself, I have come to the conclusion that if this is the economy model they go with, I will not be buying LotV. It is WAY TOO FAST. All it does it punish players who aren't high level, and makes the game more stressful to play. I this it does increase the skill ceiling, but it also raises the skill floor significantly to the point where a HotS Plat player like me can barely keep up with LotV at all. I said this before in prior beta threads. The new economy will kill Gold league and below, for the reasons you've stated. Low level players will not want to play this quickly. Since the majority of players are at the bottom, I'm worried the game will become too niche (ie, hardcore). Why speak for gold level players? It is all speculation. I'd like to see vanilla and low teir players get their hands on the beta and truly see how they respond. It's kind of hard to say this will punish low level players when their opponent is also low level and has the same disadvantages. We have no data to make the assumptions in either direction. I am platinum in HotS and consider myself pretty bad, yet I enjoy LotV. At the current state I enjoy LotV even more than HoTS, because it lacks what irritates me in HotS the most - highly refined all-ins. On one hand yes, this is going to change with time as people get better at this, on the other hand the 12-worker start makes it seem a little bit harder to do. If something is really unfriendly to casual players, it is these refined attacks that require a precise response, else you are dead. Also, after getting back to HotS for a while, I noticed that a really big difference for me is the Lurker. In HotS there is not really unit "go-to" unit that I could get no matter what and have a good time with, I really need to watch the enemy vigorously and think about the right composition, everything has strong weaknesses. Not the Lurker, it just shreds everything on the ground beynd belief - that's probably a bad thing competitively, but for casual play, it really makes things so much easier to have this "if you don't know what to do, build some Lurkers". The economy is not that different, really. If you suck at macro in HotS, you suck at LotV - in both games you get equally sucky oponents, so there is not that much difference. On the other hand, in LotV there is actually a bigger room to do better in macro and expanding and thus you have more space to defeat your oponent just by macroing better and amoving the units in their general direciton, which is much easier in my opinion that vigorously microing armies to get that small edge.
I am Gold league, and while I haven't gotten to play very much, I have definitely enjoyed LotV 1v1 waaaay more than HotS so far. I stopped playing 1v1 in HotS quite a while ago (because I suck), but LotV might just get me back into it. The big things for me are (1) the adept makes playing Protoss early game 100% more fun and far less stressful, (2) the econ changes seems to create more small-scale action out on the map, whether I win or lose, which is more fun for people who suck than the experience of slowly building up an army that's not quite good enough and then gets crushed completely in one engagement, ending the game. Having to expand a little earlier isn't a big deal for me, especially since at the level I play expansions don't seem to be as seriously contested as they are at higher levels. I guess if I were a turtle player who liked massing up BCs on two bases, then I might be more unhappy. But I dunno, even that is still possible, it's just a heck of a lot weaker.
Of course, some of this may have to do with people on the beta just being worse. But still, as a Gold leaguer, I'm happy so far.
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I really dislike the current state of mech right now.
With split upgrades and the tanks still being shit mass cyclone/hellion is the only really good strat, the only use for the rest of the mech army is to stay alive unitl you have the economy and upgrades for mass cyclone.
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On July 16 2015 01:54 Lexender wrote:
I really dislike the current state of mech right now.
With split upgrades and the tanks still being shit mass cyclone/hellion is the only really good strat, the only use for the rest of the mech army is to stay alive unitl you have the economy and upgrades for mass cyclone.
Doesn't tank dropping still work? I saw Pomi use it on his stream once, absolutely massacred his opponent with it.
Have there been any concrete beta builds for T/Z yet? I might switch from Protoss to Random in the beta.
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I really, really dislike how people complain about everything in this thread, I harrased a guy yesterday with adepts while expanding on the back so I Could afford a disruptor and practically won the game with the disruptor, this guy was standing there like a moron with his army like he would do on HOTS and obviusly he blamed on the OPNESS of the disruptor instead of being just standing in the map without movement, its like standing on tank radius why would you do that?, or fighting a tank push on your shoke with stalkers the game is fine, but some people want to produce just marines and win, and if they dont fill the forums, with shit FFS learn the game
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On July 15 2015 17:56 Sapphire.lux wrote:
I dislike the direction the Liberator is taking. There is already the Banshee and BC as air to ground. To much overlapping now, like with the Factory and Cyclone-Tank-Thor. If Terran needs a stronger long range siege weapon, buff the Tank. This is not C&C where you have 10 units that do the same thing is slightly different ways, it Starcraft FFS
well said
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I thought they said they would combined the mech armor upgrades or was the just what there thinking about? also is it just me or should the liberator need a tech lab idk if its that good yet havent played enough games to know but being about to reactor them out is kinda silly for an anti air and ground unit. its not OP at least from the games ive played but idk if its ok without tech lab will play more and see. last NO more LAG for me atleast not every game I can finally play and ive had beta for a while.
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Dear Blizzard,
The lag with LOTV beta is alot worse than HOTS connecting from Australia to US servers. If you could match the network performance (lag) of HOTS for LOTV beta I would actually play the beta.
Thanks for listening.
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anyone else really annoyed that you have to keep selecting ranked after each game?
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We have ranked archon mode as welll? :D:D:D:D:D
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Does anyone else feel like the reaper grenade ability really looks out of place ? The units jumping all over the place taking only very small damage seems so... strange.
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On July 16 2015 10:19 starslayer wrote:
anyone else really annoyed that you have to keep selecting ranked after each game?
Oh god this, Beat this GM twice, look and I was unranked for like 3 games, fuck.
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On July 16 2015 11:54 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Does anyone else feel like the reaper grenade ability really looks out of place ? The units jumping all over the place taking only very small damage seems so... strange.
A couple of reapers may be a pain in the ass in the early game, but nonetheless the reaper's role is for scout which doesn't make much of a difference. No way could you blow up the entire enemy base with nothing but reapers and their anti-building grenades like it used to be in WoL.
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Maybe not the right thread: Why can´t I get higher then level 5 for each race? I see people with a profile level of 30+ and I´m stuck at 15. Is this a momentary bug, since yesterday I was level 16 XD
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On July 16 2015 15:21 TedCruz2016 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 11:54 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Does anyone else feel like the reaper grenade ability really looks out of place ? The units jumping all over the place taking only very small damage seems so... strange. A couple of reapers may be a pain in the ass in the early game, but nonetheless the reaper's role is for scout which doesn't make much of a difference. No way could you blow up the entire enemy base with nothing but reapers and their anti-building grenades like it used to be in WoL.
I'm not saying it's OP or anything, just that the animation looks silly. You take a huge knockback and only 10 damage too, which doesn't seem really logical.
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I think the remove from control group function is good, but not done perfectly. I wish they had it as alt-# remove from group, alt-control-# remove and create group, alt-shift-# remove and add to group.
Just because I remove units from a group doesn't mean that I want to put it in a new group.
Any one else agree?
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EPT
