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Double Harvesting - Replay Analysis - Page 3

Forum Index > Legacy of the Void
43 CommentsPost a Reply
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Soularion
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Canada2764 Posts
May 18 2015 09:56 GMT
#41
Note that I played the only PvP of the tournament :p

This is really neat information to just generally have, thanks a lot for doing this!
Writermaru pls
Dapper_Cad
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United Kingdom964 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-18 12:02:55
May 18 2015 12:01 GMT
#42
On May 16 2015 20:24 Haighstrom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2015 19:24 Plexa wrote:
[image loading]


So I've lost perspective on what you're trying to achieve here. You're only showing me the 8 mineral model for HOTS, not the 8>4 mineral model for LOTV. So you should be showing me the accumulated resources over time for various worker counts, because there is a big drop off in income at a point in time in LOTV, which is highly relevant to what their model is doing versus this one.

The objective for both this project, and Blizzard's LOTV model, is to make the income per additional worker decrease compared with HOTS, in order to encourage expansion, right? Blizzard want to do this by making 4 mineral patches disappear after a while, meaning >16 workers becomes less efficient per base at first, then >8 workers less efficient after some time.

The graph you're showing me is that after 8 workers mining becomes less efficient, but the reduction of income per additional worker is less than the LOTV model AFTER the patches expired (so in LOTV you get more income for workers 9-16 before the expiration, and much less income for workers 9-16 after the expiration - in fact none for workers 13-16).

So basically this model punishes players for not expanding sooner than LOTV, but not as much as LOTV once the 4 minerals have expired.

Wouldn't the same goal be achieved by changing a base to having, say, 6 or 7 mineral patches? Of course the graphs would look a bit different, but the objective was never "let's make the income this exact curve", was it?

I just feel like this whole project is spawned off the back of "we liked the economy in BW so we'll try and emulate that", and the actual objective and means of getting there have been lost within unnecessarily verbose posts full of graphs (why say with 100 words what you can say with 5, etc).


I'd be interested to see just how close the curves of DH (3x3) and 7 patch regular would actually be for a single base. I suspect full saturation would be about identical and that at least would mirror one of the benefits I see for DH in it's current form - a general slow down of the 3 base economy. This would throw up a couple new design choices: First, if you're going to use half patches a la LotV do you go with 3 or 4 half patches? Second, do you keep start bases at 8, thereby keeping the feel of the very early game or not?

I have no strong feeling as to whether this would be a good or bad change, I'm just interested in seeing outcomes. I do know that "Change available mineral patches to 7" would be an easier sell to the public and Blizzard as it's much much simpler to explain and simpler to try out especially as it can be tested in LotV at the same time as current options just by editing a couple maps.

edit: Just to note that having differing amounts of minerals in main / expansions was something BW did. This of course doesn't make it automatically good but it does provide precedent.
But he is never making short-term prediction, everyone of his prediction are based on fundenmentals, but he doesn't exactly know when it will happen... So using these kind of narrowed "who-is-right" empirical analysis makes little sense.
crown77
Profile Joined February 2011
United States157 Posts
May 18 2015 12:07 GMT
#43
I'm really excited to see where this goes, I'm already starting to feel the strength of three bases in just about all matchups. It would be really nice to get away from 3 base 200/200 balls and get to a more broodwar mass expand style of game!
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
May 18 2015 13:52 GMT
#44
--- Nuked ---
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