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your Country52797 Posts
After nearly 300 entries, a week of judging, and four days of voting, the TL Terran Unit Competition has determined its two winners in the Best Designed and Funniest categories.
Best Designed
While a number of excellent ideas were entered, IeZaeL's Guardian clearly resonated the best with the community's hopes for the Terran race and received 60% of the votes. IeZaeL will receive a $100 voucher, which can be redeemed at the Team Liquid store, for his superb design.
On March 24 2015 04:50 IeZaeL wrote:Custom mockup model : ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uZZMyMb.jpg) Melee terran units that gives refuge and help to other terran units with its big armor and shield. Synergies with all ground units , making it a powerful tool in the terran race.Stats: - Unit Cost : 150M/250V/35s - Available at : Barracks and reactor - Stats : 200hp , 2armor , no energy - DPS : 5damage /melee( this is very low as the main purpose of the unit is not to deal damage) - Movement speed: 2.15 ( slightly slower than marine) - Supply : 4 Passive ability :In autocast mode,If the unit takes damage from an enemy unit , it automatically transforms and uses its shield to cover itself and unit near it , effectively modifying the map terrain and pathings. The unit cant move while having the shields up , but can still attack. If the Guardian dies , the barricade gets destroyed.If there are no enemies , the unit automatically returns to the moving state. Morph time is approx. 1 real-time second. Cooldown to morph again to moving-state is 30second. Can be activated manually. Closeup shields up : http://i.imgur.com/SyDUFwb.pngIngame mockup : http://i.imgur.com/MCrfkzX.jpgExample on real map 1 : ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MhxPTgv.jpg) Example on real map 2 : ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ozCza5U.jpg) Advantages of having a unit like this in the game :- It fulfills the role blizzard wanted "combat construction type of unit that travels with your army and constructs useful things mid-field to support your bio army" - Modifies terrain and map pathing indirectly , with a huge number of "abusable" spots that could be discovered in every map. - Creates exciting positional play - Its a terran melee units!! - Has synergy with both barracks and factory units , tanking for them to deal the maximum amount of damage possible and reducing the surround surface - Introduces new mechanics - Enemy can use it at its advantage with proper planning ahead.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/t4Nrx6G.png)
Funniest Idea
While there were several legitimate contenders in this category, the power of destructible rocks ended up reigning victorious as Superouman's Dustin Browder unit won out over the other finalists, which included another entry of his. Superouman will receive a $50 store voucher.
On March 24 2015 04:44 Superouman wrote:
Unit name : Dustin Browder
HP : 100
Attack : none
Speed : 2.0
cost : 75/75
Ability : Turns the unit into destructible rocks. The process cannot be reversed.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Jz7G10r.png)
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Oh my god the guardian idea is GENIUS, I mean there is no way Blizzard could make anything better than this, It is perfect, it fill a perfect niche. Im seriously impressed.
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damn really like the guardian to bad blizzard want to put in a flying siege tank or whatever it is, maybe just maybe someone in blizzard sees this and says it must be put in. Lets not get are hopes up but yea very cool idea gratz!
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i just looked at the guardian, and i really like it. please blizz give this a try!!!!
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Mappers OP  congratulations to the winners! It would be really interesting to see a unit like the guardian introduced
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That is a pretty darn great idea
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Mexico2170 Posts
How is the best designed unit the guardian?
The idea is cool, but for a good desing, it needs to work. if there is a unit that basically make Zealots useless vs bio, along with the other protoss nerfs, how can it be a good desing nto completely counter others people units. I though people wanted to stay away from hard counters.
Best original idea? Maybe. Best designed? herm..
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Awww, I was really hoping my idea would win. Destructible rocks are just too good 
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On April 09 2015 12:14 [Phantom] wrote:
How is the best designed unit the guardian?
The idea is cool, but for a good desing, it needs to work. if there is a unit that basically make Zealots useless vs bio, along with the other protoss nerfs, how can it be a good desing nto completely counter others people units. I though people wanted to stay away from hard counters.
Best original idea? Maybe. Best designed? herm..
indeed sad how these things are. I know i am a salty competitor but blizzard should really steer clear of implementing anything like a terran forcefield. In game unit images are the winning feature in this unit post...
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Man, wish it was 1st April again.
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This is a really cool idea that sounds way better than the Cyclone or the Valkyrie ripoff they're planning.
My only concern is, where do bunkers fit in now? This unit seems to do their job and more.
Perhaps instead of adding the Guardian they could redesign the Thor with these abilities?
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United States6752 Posts
Melee ranged forcefields?
I'm in.
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How can you guys compare this with forcefield, it can be destroyed and its not spammable everywhere from range for free...
An undestructible supply depot is a forcefield by your logics
How is this unit is so different from a thor on the battlefield ....
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lol I would do a dustin browder rush on the enemy's natural
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Kinda overlaps with hellbat
Its like zealots vs terran wasnt dead enought, lets make that nobody uses zealots vs terran!
Windowmine guardian hellbat GG NO RE R.I.P Zealot
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The fact that the Guardian won and gretorps unit didn't makes me happy the community has no real say in what the new Terran unit is going to be.
Yea ok that's harsh, and I suppose it's nice that your effort that went into making a model and a mock up is a pretty good level of dedication, 100 (sort of) bucks well earned I'd say, but I think it's good that unit doesn't exist in Starcraft 2. I don't see why Bio, a composition that tends to move around a lot, would require the ability to set up walls, nor why it should pay 250 gas for the ability to do so. I don't understand how you're supposed to set up the arc for the wall, especially since it's on auto cast. Does it just rotate towards the direction the shot came from?. I also dislike that it's a melee unit, as I feel melee goes against the Terran identify of mass firepower.
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my asian father has much dissapoint in me. brb while i contemplate sepupuku
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On April 09 2015 13:09 Gretorp wrote:
my asian father has much dissapoint in me. brb while i contemplate sepupuku
Be strong, the sudoku is for the brave
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On April 09 2015 13:09 Gretorp wrote:
my asian father has much dissapoint in me. brb while i contemplate sepupuku
Make sure not to accidentally commit bukkake. Those two are easily confused.
But yeah, the DPS density of marines is far too high to allow terrans some mobile physical barrier between them and whatever NEEDS to get close to them as soon as possible.
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The guardian sounds like the coolest idea. It doesn't sound balanced or balanceable or necessarily good for the game, but definitely coolest.
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if blizzard makes this unit, then will consider buying lotv lol. it looks very cool.
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where do we vote for "None"? terran doesnt need a 3rd new unit.
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thanks to all guys who were thinking about a new terran unit and gratz to the winner !
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So, give Terran a less convenient force field, in other words?
I do believe this would make ling+bling armies ~useless, but hey, I haven't touched it, so I wouldn't know. Still, a neat idea and design.
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The Guardian is great. I have a hard time believing it comes out of the barracks though.
Edit: This is not really the place and, well, too late but couldn't the Spectre be made into a viable unit? Have a range of abilities spread over it and the Ghost, some the same (snipe, cloak) and some different. I can see a fear/ deterrent effect work for the Spectre for instance instead of EMP and an anti buildings grenade (you're welcome Morrow) instead of the Nuke.
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On April 09 2015 11:30 The_Templar wrote:Funniest IdeaWhile there were several legitimate contenders in this category, the power of destructible rocks ended up reigning victorious as Superouman's Dustin Browder unit won out over the other finalists, which included another entry of his. Superouman will receive a $50 store voucher. Show nested quote +On March 24 2015 04:44 Superouman wrote:
Unit name : Dustin Browder
HP : 100
Attack : none
Speed : 2.0
cost : 75/75
Ability : Turns the unit into destructible rocks. The process cannot be reversed.
Wait what? XD
i won something without knowing it
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I was really confused, because I was so sure that we are already a week into April and then this shows up? I can't honestly tell this "great new unit" from any joke I have seen before and in comparison, the hydraroach seems slightly more feasible as a real suggestion.
Even from the user's perspective, the autocast mode is totally silly - sneak in a ling or hit it with a muta glaive and disable the unit from moving for 30 second, really? Why is that even there?
And then obviously there is the problem that it is either completely useless or it eliminates ling-bling play from the game. On this scale it is balanceable by cost, but I don't really see any middle ground to be hit. Either the terran can't afford it (or enough of them) and thus will not build them for the fear of being attacked at a place the thing is not, or he can and then you are instantly bunker-rushed on your creep and can do squat. If there is one thing that terran does NOT need, it is another tool to fight ling-bling. Have you failed to notice that mmmm vs. ling-bling-muta is the best dynamics there is in SC2?
Terran bio is fucking versatile. That's the whole point of it - bio is good versus moreorless everything and outright everything with the right support units. Unless you fundamentally change marines (which would be quite the challenge) there is no point to making bio even better against things with which is has a perfect relationship in HoTS.
If there are any possible holes in Terran, it could be be either for mech, or with respect to the new units. This thing absolutely sucks versus both lurkers (provided it does not block the shot from coming through and that would be really weird) and ravagers (everything that can't move is an open invitaiton to just build more ravagers) and is fucking gas-expensive to ever be build when going mech, considering that gas is now even more sparse and tanks are so much better (but need medivacs to be better and those costs gas, you know?).
Indeed, a great reminder how we do not want Blizzard to listen to community ideas.
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The Guardian is what Hellbat was supposed to be (a protective unit for bio against zealosts), instead we got another high damage unit :/
BTW if you like the Guardian then check out Ground Control 2, a great RTS with this baby:
+ Show Spoiler +
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Indeed, a great reminder how we do not want Blizzard to listen to community ideas.
But honestly, it's quite hard to design a unit for SC2 at this point because all the races are already quite complete. LotV shouldn't have brought in any units at all. At best, they should have removed old ones for new ones.
E.g. Zerg now has gone from 1 original siege unit - the Broodlord - to 4siege units - Broodlord, Ravager, Lurker, Swarm Host. I wonder how many of them will be more than an occasional occurance. And that's zerg with a much easier techswitch capability. I wonder how many of the 12 factory/starport units we will see regulary in future mech...
Blizzard is just happy that they can combine their lazyiness to balance units properly to make them more useful all around with the need to create content so that they can sell Legacy.
Back on topic, grats to the winners.
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Winner's unit is cool, I'd be down for that :D
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Italy12246 Posts
On April 09 2015 13:05 ROOTiaguz wrote:
The fact that the Guardian won and gretorps unit didn't makes me happy the community has no real say in what the new Terran unit is going to be.
Yea ok that's harsh, and I suppose it's nice that your effort that went into making a model and a mock up is a pretty good level of dedication, 100 (sort of) bucks well earned I'd say, but I think it's good that unit doesn't exist in Starcraft 2. I don't see why Bio, a composition that tends to move around a lot, would require the ability to set up walls, nor why it should pay 250 gas for the ability to do so. I don't understand how you're supposed to set up the arc for the wall, especially since it's on auto cast. Does it just rotate towards the direction the shot came from?. I also dislike that it's a melee unit, as I feel melee goes against the Terran identify of mass firepower.
Ironically enough Blizzard seems to like Gretorp's idea
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So the finalist for best unit design where the Science Vessel, the Reaver, the Corsair, and a walking forcefied? Basically you want to play protoss instead of terran.
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On April 09 2015 19:16 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 13:05 ROOTiaguz wrote:
The fact that the Guardian won and gretorps unit didn't makes me happy the community has no real say in what the new Terran unit is going to be.
Yea ok that's harsh, and I suppose it's nice that your effort that went into making a model and a mock up is a pretty good level of dedication, 100 (sort of) bucks well earned I'd say, but I think it's good that unit doesn't exist in Starcraft 2. I don't see why Bio, a composition that tends to move around a lot, would require the ability to set up walls, nor why it should pay 250 gas for the ability to do so. I don't understand how you're supposed to set up the arc for the wall, especially since it's on auto cast. Does it just rotate towards the direction the shot came from?. I also dislike that it's a melee unit, as I feel melee goes against the Terran identify of mass firepower. Ironically enough Blizzard seems to like Gretorp's idea
The only problem I have with Gretorps unit is that forcing the zerg off ling bling muta seems fine and logical but the problem is transitioning from that was next to impossible when the zerg was even or behind and if the zerg was ahead you'd just go mass muta and kill them. The second problem is we saw how screwed the percentage for ZvT was when the thor change happened (another AOE air killer)
If this idea went through then zerg would need an easier way to transition to mid/lategame.
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Italy12246 Posts
On April 09 2015 19:34 Ovid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 19:16 Teoita wrote:On April 09 2015 13:05 ROOTiaguz wrote:
The fact that the Guardian won and gretorps unit didn't makes me happy the community has no real say in what the new Terran unit is going to be.
Yea ok that's harsh, and I suppose it's nice that your effort that went into making a model and a mock up is a pretty good level of dedication, 100 (sort of) bucks well earned I'd say, but I think it's good that unit doesn't exist in Starcraft 2. I don't see why Bio, a composition that tends to move around a lot, would require the ability to set up walls, nor why it should pay 250 gas for the ability to do so. I don't understand how you're supposed to set up the arc for the wall, especially since it's on auto cast. Does it just rotate towards the direction the shot came from?. I also dislike that it's a melee unit, as I feel melee goes against the Terran identify of mass firepower. Ironically enough Blizzard seems to like Gretorp's idea The only problem I have with Gretorps unit is that forcing the zerg off ling bling muta seems fine and logical but the problem is transitioning from that was next to impossible when the zerg was even or behind and if the zerg was ahead you'd just go mass muta and kill them. The second problem is we saw how screwed the percentage for ZvT was when the thor change happened (another AOE air killer) If this idea went through then zerg would need an easier way to transition to mid/lategame.
I agree, but Lurkers are much more accessible than Infestors or anything at Hive tech, so eh, it might work.
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Gretorp's mix of BW units thing seems much more interesting to me too :D
I'd have liked any of the new Goliath ideas to make it. Of course the cyclone kinda fits that role, but it also blanks tanks and marauders atm so it's not the goliath's problem really.
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On April 09 2015 14:05 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 13:09 Gretorp wrote:
my asian father has much dissapoint in me. brb while i contemplate sepupuku Make sure not to accidentally commit bukkake. Those two are easily confused.
LOOOL
I say nice model for the Guardian, but really the design is bad and doesn't fit. After all if you want to create spontaneous walls with melee units that deal 5 damage, all you need to do is bring some SCVs with you and spam ebays before/during a fight for 200+ HP walls for only 31 minerals ish if you manage to cancel them.
Plus the walls would discourage the opponent from poking the terran's army, and the opponent would have to make a commitment in order to get past the guardians and kill the actual army. I thought we wanted low-commitment battles so that more battles and engagements happen without players being scared to ever attack due to not wanting to be hugely disadvantaged after a failed fight?
And how is focusing walls / running around walls interesting while the terran just sits and attacks before the opponent can? I thought many didn't like forcefields... yes the walls are destructible but there is still some time that you have to wait.
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Hm I'm sorry but I don't want more forcefields and don't think something as immobile as a wall unit fits terran bio and is not needed for mech. But the design looks great and you really deserve the 100 bucks for all the effort . Great ideas everybody!
Edit: Also I want Dustin Browder in the game now!
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On April 09 2015 19:50 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 19:34 Ovid wrote:On April 09 2015 19:16 Teoita wrote:On April 09 2015 13:05 ROOTiaguz wrote:
The fact that the Guardian won and gretorps unit didn't makes me happy the community has no real say in what the new Terran unit is going to be.
Yea ok that's harsh, and I suppose it's nice that your effort that went into making a model and a mock up is a pretty good level of dedication, 100 (sort of) bucks well earned I'd say, but I think it's good that unit doesn't exist in Starcraft 2. I don't see why Bio, a composition that tends to move around a lot, would require the ability to set up walls, nor why it should pay 250 gas for the ability to do so. I don't understand how you're supposed to set up the arc for the wall, especially since it's on auto cast. Does it just rotate towards the direction the shot came from?. I also dislike that it's a melee unit, as I feel melee goes against the Terran identify of mass firepower. Ironically enough Blizzard seems to like Gretorp's idea The only problem I have with Gretorps unit is that forcing the zerg off ling bling muta seems fine and logical but the problem is transitioning from that was next to impossible when the zerg was even or behind and if the zerg was ahead you'd just go mass muta and kill them. The second problem is we saw how screwed the percentage for ZvT was when the thor change happened (another AOE air killer) If this idea went through then zerg would need an easier way to transition to mid/lategame. I agree, but Lurkers are much more accessible than Infestors or anything at Hive tech, so eh, it might work.
The problem is Lurker isn't along the traditional tech path so before you can make them (assuming you need the range upgrade for them to be viable) it's 100/100 for the Hydra den, 50/100 for the Lurker 200/150 for hive 200/200 for the range 150/150 for every lurker. So it's 550 gas before you can even build them and then assuming 6 is the magic number to mix in that's another 900 gas needed.
I think the should make the Lurker range to 8 as standard and remove the upgrade. I think streamers and the like just aren't transitioning fast enough, they should probably start prepping the transition to lurker after the first batch of muta or the 4th base.
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On April 09 2015 20:27 Ovid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 19:50 Teoita wrote:On April 09 2015 19:34 Ovid wrote:On April 09 2015 19:16 Teoita wrote:On April 09 2015 13:05 ROOTiaguz wrote:
The fact that the Guardian won and gretorps unit didn't makes me happy the community has no real say in what the new Terran unit is going to be.
Yea ok that's harsh, and I suppose it's nice that your effort that went into making a model and a mock up is a pretty good level of dedication, 100 (sort of) bucks well earned I'd say, but I think it's good that unit doesn't exist in Starcraft 2. I don't see why Bio, a composition that tends to move around a lot, would require the ability to set up walls, nor why it should pay 250 gas for the ability to do so. I don't understand how you're supposed to set up the arc for the wall, especially since it's on auto cast. Does it just rotate towards the direction the shot came from?. I also dislike that it's a melee unit, as I feel melee goes against the Terran identify of mass firepower. Ironically enough Blizzard seems to like Gretorp's idea The only problem I have with Gretorps unit is that forcing the zerg off ling bling muta seems fine and logical but the problem is transitioning from that was next to impossible when the zerg was even or behind and if the zerg was ahead you'd just go mass muta and kill them. The second problem is we saw how screwed the percentage for ZvT was when the thor change happened (another AOE air killer) If this idea went through then zerg would need an easier way to transition to mid/lategame. I agree, but Lurkers are much more accessible than Infestors or anything at Hive tech, so eh, it might work. The problem is Lurker isn't along the traditional tech path so before you can make them (assuming you need the range upgrade for them to be viable) it's 100/100 for the Hydra den, 50/100 for the Lurker 200/150 for hive 200/200 for the range 150/150 for every lurker. So it's 550 gas before you can even build them and then assuming 6 is the magic number to mix in that's another 900 gas needed. I think the should make the Lurker range to 8 as standard and remove the upgrade. I think streamers and the like just aren't transitioning fast enough, they should probably start prepping the transition to lurker after the first batch of muta or the 4th base.
I think Hydras should be hatch tech so it doesn't take that long to get a lurker tech out on lair. Hydras would also be a solid choice for the early game to help zergs defend allins. The Ravager should be Lair tech instead since it's too powerful early on and crushes any wall. Then allow Zerg to tech to hive with Spire and Lurker Den too and I think the race will feel much more balanced and tech transitions will be more natural.
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The Guardian is only reliable agains melee Units , is way to expensive and will not fit the lotv Meta (more spellcaster , range Unit Composition). I dont understand at all why people think this is a good idea ??
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With the new economy terran can not use these to just sit back on a low number of bases.
The guardian would also force each race to continually tech up and tech switch, further increasing the need to take and deny bases.
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For those who complain about the balance of this unit, it costs 4 supply. I like the idea of this unit and think it paradoxycally fits with the Terran mobility a lot. I also really like that it has a almost reallisitic design.
Bunkers or ebay (as I read before) are not practical at all to build in the middle of a fight. This however can help T to take better positionnal fight.
However, in that way, it cannot stay like this. with mines, tanks and marines this is way to powerfull. As a Z I couldn't ever engage this. I dunno it could reduce the vision range of units, so that unit behind see let's say in a range of 2 or 3 (so melee unit would still be attacked) or reduce the vision range by something and the wall can be attacked by ranged unit without too much problems.
My idea is probably bad, but I think something like this would be needed.
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Italy12246 Posts
On April 09 2015 20:27 Ovid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 19:50 Teoita wrote:On April 09 2015 19:34 Ovid wrote:On April 09 2015 19:16 Teoita wrote:On April 09 2015 13:05 ROOTiaguz wrote:
The fact that the Guardian won and gretorps unit didn't makes me happy the community has no real say in what the new Terran unit is going to be.
Yea ok that's harsh, and I suppose it's nice that your effort that went into making a model and a mock up is a pretty good level of dedication, 100 (sort of) bucks well earned I'd say, but I think it's good that unit doesn't exist in Starcraft 2. I don't see why Bio, a composition that tends to move around a lot, would require the ability to set up walls, nor why it should pay 250 gas for the ability to do so. I don't understand how you're supposed to set up the arc for the wall, especially since it's on auto cast. Does it just rotate towards the direction the shot came from?. I also dislike that it's a melee unit, as I feel melee goes against the Terran identify of mass firepower. Ironically enough Blizzard seems to like Gretorp's idea The only problem I have with Gretorps unit is that forcing the zerg off ling bling muta seems fine and logical but the problem is transitioning from that was next to impossible when the zerg was even or behind and if the zerg was ahead you'd just go mass muta and kill them. The second problem is we saw how screwed the percentage for ZvT was when the thor change happened (another AOE air killer) If this idea went through then zerg would need an easier way to transition to mid/lategame. I agree, but Lurkers are much more accessible than Infestors or anything at Hive tech, so eh, it might work. The problem is Lurker isn't along the traditional tech path so before you can make them (assuming you need the range upgrade for them to be viable) it's 100/100 for the Hydra den, 50/100 for the Lurker 200/150 for hive 200/200 for the range 150/150 for every lurker. So it's 550 gas before you can even build them and then assuming 6 is the magic number to mix in that's another 900 gas needed. I think the should make the Lurker range to 8 as standard and remove the upgrade. I think streamers and the like just aren't transitioning fast enough, they should probably start prepping the transition to lurker after the first batch of muta or the 4th base.
Meh there's too many factors at play to make that claim right now. The upgrade path was similar in BW yet it worked because of a lot of other factors. Obviously if it becomes an issue things can be changed.
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meh, the idea's that had images or came from more known person's basically came out on top.
The guardian is ok but it's just too similar in functionality to the sentry. Mobile slower support unit that let's your more ranged army kill melee armies by screwing with their pathing. It's not bad but it's already in the game :<.
The jackal is the idea I like best for gameplay although unexciting because it's just a mix of the BW science vessel & ghost. Still this is where the niche for a new terran unit should be, a gas intensive support caster. Basically a second ghost or raven that has use in bio armies and perhaps mech/air too. The current raven is more a lategame air vs air unit and the ghost is TvP exclusive and not overly exciting. The unit being an air or ground unit is not that incredibly relevant, it should just be higher end tech for bio to help counter the other higher end tech.
The exterminator i'd call the best overall of these. Not as good for gameplay I'd say as another caster but a nice idea of a melee unit leaving a trace of damaging material.
The javelin is a boring idea, just a super siege unit. The ravager already does this kind of effect in LotV already albeit perhaps with slightly different stats.
The unit from gretorp is fine too but I'd like the jackal idea more then. I don't think air aoe is especially neccesary for terran as they have the thor and raven already providing that sort of.
Basically I hope to see blizzard add a gas heavy caster that would compliment bio play specifically. Doesn't matter too much if this is airbased (techlab starport) or groundbased (techlab barracks perhaps with ghost academy). Possibly retool some abilities between ghost, raven and the new unit. At the moment ghost is too much a anti-protoss exclusive unit and the raven has to limited use being so lategame mass air battles exclusive kinda. It's a shame bio play has no lategame followup and gas frequently just piles up or isn't mined in the first place.
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Instead of adding another gas intensive caster unit like the jackal it would make more sense to adjust the existing ghost which currently does not see much use. Similarly the Viking could be given a new ability instead of its ground to ground transformation.
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I like Gretorps idea better since it helps vs many Terran problems. I would never build a Guardian for 250 gas, 4 supply that has only 200 hp and does basically nothing.
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Not sure how much I like the guardian. It seems like it'll have the same problem that sensor towers have. Its immobility doesn't seem to have much synergy with bio play.
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Yup, the community didn't think for 10 seconds before voting for this one.
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GG , another italian at the top
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On April 09 2015 21:11 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 20:27 Ovid wrote:On April 09 2015 19:50 Teoita wrote:On April 09 2015 19:34 Ovid wrote:On April 09 2015 19:16 Teoita wrote:On April 09 2015 13:05 ROOTiaguz wrote:
The fact that the Guardian won and gretorps unit didn't makes me happy the community has no real say in what the new Terran unit is going to be.
Yea ok that's harsh, and I suppose it's nice that your effort that went into making a model and a mock up is a pretty good level of dedication, 100 (sort of) bucks well earned I'd say, but I think it's good that unit doesn't exist in Starcraft 2. I don't see why Bio, a composition that tends to move around a lot, would require the ability to set up walls, nor why it should pay 250 gas for the ability to do so. I don't understand how you're supposed to set up the arc for the wall, especially since it's on auto cast. Does it just rotate towards the direction the shot came from?. I also dislike that it's a melee unit, as I feel melee goes against the Terran identify of mass firepower. Ironically enough Blizzard seems to like Gretorp's idea The only problem I have with Gretorps unit is that forcing the zerg off ling bling muta seems fine and logical but the problem is transitioning from that was next to impossible when the zerg was even or behind and if the zerg was ahead you'd just go mass muta and kill them. The second problem is we saw how screwed the percentage for ZvT was when the thor change happened (another AOE air killer) If this idea went through then zerg would need an easier way to transition to mid/lategame. I agree, but Lurkers are much more accessible than Infestors or anything at Hive tech, so eh, it might work. The problem is Lurker isn't along the traditional tech path so before you can make them (assuming you need the range upgrade for them to be viable) it's 100/100 for the Hydra den, 50/100 for the Lurker 200/150 for hive 200/200 for the range 150/150 for every lurker. So it's 550 gas before you can even build them and then assuming 6 is the magic number to mix in that's another 900 gas needed. I think the should make the Lurker range to 8 as standard and remove the upgrade. I think streamers and the like just aren't transitioning fast enough, they should probably start prepping the transition to lurker after the first batch of muta or the 4th base. Meh there's too many factors at play to make that claim right now. The upgrade path was similar in BW yet it worked because of a lot of other factors. Obviously if it becomes an issue things can be changed.
Broodwar zerg didn't rely on banelings to hold terran pushes before lurkers since the lings/muta/colonies could hold things meaning the same amount of gas wasn't tied up so a transition was more natural.
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Gretorp's idea certainly sounds more helpful and powerful than winner's idea. But it seems almost too convenient. Like, it solves too many Terran problems, and Gretorp didn't talk about what problems it creates for P and Z at all.
On the other hand, the guardian doesn't seem to be worth its cost :D
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On April 09 2015 19:16 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 13:05 ROOTiaguz wrote:
The fact that the Guardian won and gretorps unit didn't makes me happy the community has no real say in what the new Terran unit is going to be.
Yea ok that's harsh, and I suppose it's nice that your effort that went into making a model and a mock up is a pretty good level of dedication, 100 (sort of) bucks well earned I'd say, but I think it's good that unit doesn't exist in Starcraft 2. I don't see why Bio, a composition that tends to move around a lot, would require the ability to set up walls, nor why it should pay 250 gas for the ability to do so. I don't understand how you're supposed to set up the arc for the wall, especially since it's on auto cast. Does it just rotate towards the direction the shot came from?. I also dislike that it's a melee unit, as I feel melee goes against the Terran identify of mass firepower. Ironically enough Blizzard seems to like Gretorp's idea
I had noticed that.
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Please make Dustin Browders happen. Just imagine the possibilities!
1. Browderdrop: Drop 4 of these badboys into your opponent's mineral line to turn mining into what it's supposed to be: Digging through thick layers of stone to get the precious ores.
2. Browderblock: Block naturals, ramps, units, building exits, other rocks...block everything!
3. Browdershock: The psychological aspects of heavy Browder usage must not be neglected. If I were to see a huge army of Browders approach my base, I'd consider tapping out of the game instantly. The pure sight of Dustin Browders makes enemies shiver and empires crumble.
4. Blue Flame Browders: Once blue flame is researched, rocks spawned by Dustin Browders emit blue flames. They don't deal damage, because of design consistency issues, but they look very cool. And that's what the game needs.
Overall, I think the Dustin Browder is a rock solid unit. Hopefully Blizzard will listen to the community. #terribleterribledamage
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Guardian in shield mode is so redondant with bunker/ hellbat/ widow mine
can my zealots/zerglings do some dmgs plz ?
a unit that allows to camp for the ranged race, really are you serious ?
"Hopefully Blizzard will [never] listen to the community"
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United States6752 Posts
On April 09 2015 21:49 Aquila- wrote:
I like Gretorps idea better since it helps vs many Terran problems. I would never build a Guardian for 250 gas, 4 supply that has only 200 hp and does basically nothing.
Changing terrain at will is kind of good. Its easy enough to zero out their threat priority so only things the guardian is attacking hits back while everything else is forced into tight chokes that Hellbats and Siege tanks can take advantage of.
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guardian so good but different name pls
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On April 09 2015 13:05 ROOTiaguz wrote:
The fact that the Guardian won and gretorps unit didn't makes me happy the community has no real say in what the new Terran unit is going to be.
Yea ok that's harsh, and I suppose it's nice that your effort that went into making a model and a mock up is a pretty good level of dedication, 100 (sort of) bucks well earned I'd say, but I think it's good that unit doesn't exist in Starcraft 2. I don't see why Bio, a composition that tends to move around a lot, would require the ability to set up walls, nor why it should pay 250 gas for the ability to do so. I don't understand how you're supposed to set up the arc for the wall, especially since it's on auto cast. Does it just rotate towards the direction the shot came from?. I also dislike that it's a melee unit, as I feel melee goes against the Terran identify of mass firepower.
couldnt agree more.
this unit would not work in reality. the pricing makes no sense at all either.
it basically won cuz it looks cool/fancy and the post was well done.
too bad most ppl's understanding of the game is too low to recognize ideas that fit and work :/
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United States6752 Posts
On April 10 2015 03:21 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2015 13:05 ROOTiaguz wrote:
The fact that the Guardian won and gretorps unit didn't makes me happy the community has no real say in what the new Terran unit is going to be.
Yea ok that's harsh, and I suppose it's nice that your effort that went into making a model and a mock up is a pretty good level of dedication, 100 (sort of) bucks well earned I'd say, but I think it's good that unit doesn't exist in Starcraft 2. I don't see why Bio, a composition that tends to move around a lot, would require the ability to set up walls, nor why it should pay 250 gas for the ability to do so. I don't understand how you're supposed to set up the arc for the wall, especially since it's on auto cast. Does it just rotate towards the direction the shot came from?. I also dislike that it's a melee unit, as I feel melee goes against the Terran identify of mass firepower. couldnt agree more. this unit would not work in reality. the pricing makes no sense at all either. it basically won cuz it looks cool/fancy and the post was well done. too bad most ppl's understanding of the game is too low to recognize ideas that fit and work :/
Cost, hitpoints, and stats are easy enough to change. Concepts are not.
The concept is interesting. (Melee ranged, killable forcefields)
That the stats don't fit well is changeable.
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On April 10 2015 03:40 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 03:21 KalWarkov wrote:On April 09 2015 13:05 ROOTiaguz wrote:
The fact that the Guardian won and gretorps unit didn't makes me happy the community has no real say in what the new Terran unit is going to be.
Yea ok that's harsh, and I suppose it's nice that your effort that went into making a model and a mock up is a pretty good level of dedication, 100 (sort of) bucks well earned I'd say, but I think it's good that unit doesn't exist in Starcraft 2. I don't see why Bio, a composition that tends to move around a lot, would require the ability to set up walls, nor why it should pay 250 gas for the ability to do so. I don't understand how you're supposed to set up the arc for the wall, especially since it's on auto cast. Does it just rotate towards the direction the shot came from?. I also dislike that it's a melee unit, as I feel melee goes against the Terran identify of mass firepower. couldnt agree more. this unit would not work in reality. the pricing makes no sense at all either. it basically won cuz it looks cool/fancy and the post was well done. too bad most ppl's understanding of the game is too low to recognize ideas that fit and work :/ Cost, hitpoints, and stats are easy enough to change. Concepts are not. The concept is interesting. (Melee ranged, killable forcefields) That the stats don't fit well is changeable.
true, but the cost are so far away from what would make sense.
and the concept itself is interesting, but not particularly useful or good in the long run
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Wouldn't his completely destroy Bio's mobility though? I mean the idea of the unit sounds fun at first, but I really don't see it working in the current game balance.
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United States6752 Posts
On April 10 2015 03:47 Thax wrote:
Wouldn't his completely destroy Bio's mobility though? I mean the idea of the unit sounds fun at first, but I really don't see it working in the current game balance.
Doesn't have to be built for bio builds?
Like, it could be used with tanks and hellbats to hold back troops, clogging their chargelots/lings while siege tanks and Thors get the first volley off in peace
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Congrats leZael and Superouman.
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So how is this different or any better than bringing a couple of SCVs to build bunkers and engineering bay walls? Also, the 250 gas cost is ridiculous for a unit that does nothing except be a glorified obstacle.
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United States6752 Posts
On April 10 2015 06:07 Loccstana wrote:
So how is this different or any better than bringing a couple of SCVs to build bunkers and engineering bay walls? Also, the 250 gas cost is ridiculous for a unit that does nothing except be a glorified obstacle.
Speed?
The idea is that it would take a few seconds to build.
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Honestly, that is a cool unit. I like it more and more when I think about lotv. Well done with that design.
Also:
my asian father has much dissapoint in me. brb while i contemplate sepupuku
It's spelled Sudoku. Noob 
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On April 10 2015 06:07 Loccstana wrote:
So how is this different or any better than bringing a couple of SCVs to build bunkers and engineering bay walls? Also, the 250 gas cost is ridiculous for a unit that does nothing except be a glorified obstacle.
Honestly, I'd love to see a lategame upgrade to the bunker that simply halved the cost and construction time. They take so long to build that they're obsolete by the time they finish, when used across the map lategame.
I'm not even Terran, I think it'd be fun to clear them out like a terran clear out creep
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The Guardian is a great idea. It gives bio a completely different style to play. There could be an aggressive/tempo based style that we use now, as well as a slower/positional style using guardians.
I think it's a perfect idea because it adds options to the way bio can be played.
Imagine a SC where bio had positional (Guardian) play or aggressive (current) play. And mech had positional (siege tank) and aggressive (cyclone). I think this sounds like a cool way to make terran really stylistic and diverse.
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United States6752 Posts
On April 10 2015 07:08 Soldier92 wrote:
The Guardian is a great idea. It gives bio a completely different style to play. There could be an aggressive/tempo based style that we use now, as well as a slower/positional style using guardians.
I think it's a perfect idea because it adds options to the way bio can be played.
Imagine a SC where bio had positional (Guardian) play or aggressive (current) play. And mech had positional (siege tank) and aggressive (cyclone). I think this sounds like a cool way to make terran really stylistic and diverse.
I'm also assuming you can heal/repair the guardians and that they take up little to no threat so that opponent's have to manually force attack them otherwise their units ignore them like they do forcefields. It hinders chargelot swarming, ling swarms, allows for tanks to maintain strong positions.
Sure the stats are not fixed yet, but its a pretty cool design.
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On April 10 2015 07:45 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 07:08 Soldier92 wrote:
The Guardian is a great idea. It gives bio a completely different style to play. There could be an aggressive/tempo based style that we use now, as well as a slower/positional style using guardians.
I think it's a perfect idea because it adds options to the way bio can be played.
Imagine a SC where bio had positional (Guardian) play or aggressive (current) play. And mech had positional (siege tank) and aggressive (cyclone). I think this sounds like a cool way to make terran really stylistic and diverse.
I'm also assuming you can heal/repair the guardians and that they take up little to no threat so that opponent's have to manually force attack them otherwise their units ignore them like they do forcefields. It hinders chargelot swarming, ling swarms, allows for tanks to maintain strong positions. Sure the stats are not fixed yet, but its a pretty cool design.
I agree, like you said, it's as good of a compliment to mech as it is bio.
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cool. I have a feeling the guardian would be kinda broken in bio tank compositions though. looks cool though.
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On April 10 2015 03:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 03:47 Thax wrote:
Wouldn't his completely destroy Bio's mobility though? I mean the idea of the unit sounds fun at first, but I really don't see it working in the current game balance. Doesn't have to be built for bio builds? Like, it could be used with tanks and hellbats to hold back troops, clogging their chargelots/lings while siege tanks and Thors get the first volley off in peace
Pretty sure its intended for bio builds. Its a barracks unit and gets bio upgrades.
Mech players can build hellbats. Which do the same thing except they deal splash, only cost minerals, cheaper in general, are built from factories, get mech upgrades and can transform into a mobile harass unit. Dunno why a mech player would get gaurdians over hellbats vs zerglings and zealots.
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OMG this is amazing. It's actually very similar to my Stryder with the shield idea, but gives bio a new, slower flavor! I like it! One very unique thing would be if it blocked shots. For example, if it somehow absorbed stalker shots, but not colossus or muta shots.
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United States6752 Posts
On April 10 2015 10:00 royalroadweed wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 03:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:On April 10 2015 03:47 Thax wrote:
Wouldn't his completely destroy Bio's mobility though? I mean the idea of the unit sounds fun at first, but I really don't see it working in the current game balance. Doesn't have to be built for bio builds? Like, it could be used with tanks and hellbats to hold back troops, clogging their chargelots/lings while siege tanks and Thors get the first volley off in peace Pretty sure its intended for bio builds. Its a barracks unit and gets bio upgrades. Mech players can build hellbats. Which do the same thing except they deal splash, only cost minerals, cheaper in general, are built from factories, get mech upgrades and can transform into a mobile harass unit. Dunno why a mech player would get gaurdians over hellbats vs zerglings and zealots.
Medivacs are built from starports--and look, bio builds use them anyway.
Don't believe that where a unit is built defines how a unit is used.
These are not meant to tank damage as much as change the terrain they are in. The goal is to use them *with* hellbats and siege tanks, and Thors and widow mines to channel the flow of enemy units, reduce the ability of surrounds, and to create defensive positions where open terrain used to be.
The cost is arbitrary, the stats are arbitrary and both will be changed after testing.
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On April 10 2015 03:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 03:47 Thax wrote:
Wouldn't his completely destroy Bio's mobility though? I mean the idea of the unit sounds fun at first, but I really don't see it working in the current game balance. Doesn't have to be built for bio builds? Like, it could be used with tanks and hellbats to hold back troops, clogging their chargelots/lings while siege tanks and Thors get the first volley off in peace
And who said that Bio had to be the fast, hyper aggressive style we see constantly? With something like this, it can throw the entire zerg or protoss off balance just because of one unit by having an army that is hyper aggressive and fast, to an army that is designed for slower, more methodical movement. Having another style of bio to play would be very fascinating.
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United States6752 Posts
On April 10 2015 11:41 Obeast96 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2015 03:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:On April 10 2015 03:47 Thax wrote:
Wouldn't his completely destroy Bio's mobility though? I mean the idea of the unit sounds fun at first, but I really don't see it working in the current game balance. Doesn't have to be built for bio builds? Like, it could be used with tanks and hellbats to hold back troops, clogging their chargelots/lings while siege tanks and Thors get the first volley off in peace And who said that Bio had to be the fast, hyper aggressive style we see constantly? With something like this, it can throw the entire zerg or protoss off balance just because of one unit by having an army that is hyper aggressive and fast, to an army that is designed for slower, more methodical movement. Having another style of bio to play would be very fascinating.
Could also be used for traps. Stutter stepping into tight chokes made out of guardians
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So Terran needs forcefields now?
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Sorry, but against Protoss... with their Colossi... that outrange Bio anyways? What's the purpose? The Bio player is creating forcefields of his own to not be able to run up to Colossi or run away from Zealots?
As the Guardian is Melee, it can't even prevent Stalkers from scaring Vikings away (from the Colossi). Even though playing Bio, you'd be better off building some Hellbats instead.
In TvT... well... everything will just shred it, because nothing has to come close.
Maybe (a big maybe) in TvZ it could be useful against Banelings that have to crush through the Guardians first to get to the Marines. For that purpose the Guardian would be way too expensive though.
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Makes sense to me. It would buy time for bio players to split before a wave of banelings hits them (possibly enabling engagements on creep), as well as buying time for a mech composition to siege up/get in position better. Also, in terms of bio play, it's a much-needed gas sink (my biggest pet-peeve when playing bio is how little gas you spend). This would allow something that costs gas to work with bio (since Ravens, the "vessel" of sc2, don't work well with bio).
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Guardian looks amazing, it's like a force field but way more dynamic for both players, something Blizzard has struggled to impart to FFs since WoL.
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Did IeZaeL forget to write how much hp/defense the guardian has in shield mode? 250gas and 4 supply for 200hp. Almost every 4supply unit in the game has more hp. Thor has twise the HP for less gas and 50% more supply. Remember that thors deal big damage to both ground and air while blocking as much as that thing, also you know, they can move. For it to be balanced it should take maybe 80% reduced damage in shield mode, and remove the cooldowns.
Then there is also the thing that terran already is the only race that can build anywhere, with the exeption of pylons, nexus and hatcheries. But ebays, supply depots and bunkers work much better than those 3 for various reasons. Also there are auto turrets. Why would they need more stationary wall options?
And finally there is the problem that blizzard released this unit called "hellbat" already in the first expansion. The unit was desinged for the exact same role as guardian, being an instant damage tanker and pathing blocker against melee units. The difference between these two units is that hellbats are desinged much better in every possible way.
1. Its a factory unit. Meaning it gets mech upgrades and comes from same building as your other units. After all, you would never want a wall unit in bio comp.
2. Its also usable against protoss.
3. It does not cost gas.
4. Being a morph unit from hellion makes it a versatile option. Allowing it to be a harass unit first, and then core army unit, encouraging active gameplay.
5. The stats of the unit were thinked about for more than one second, before posting it online.
What a shame.
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EPT
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