I was very excited to hear that Lurkers were coming back in LotV when they were announced a few months ago. But ever since the Beta began, people have been avoiding the unit like a plague. We've had several tournaments in the last week with almost no Lurker showings.
ZvT is basically Ling/Bling/Muta into crackling/Ultra Ultra EX plus α.
ZvP seems like a ravager spam fest into mutalisk
and ZvZ seem like ling-bling into Ravaroach wars.
Lurkers are rapidly becoming the carriers of Wings of Liberty.
I'm just wondering what it would take for people to take the Lurkers seriously again. If you guys know any streamer who actually touches the lurker, please let me know.
For starters, I'm wondering if Lurkers came out with the +9 attack for free at the lair would be too much. It would be on lair tech, which is basically the midgame, where armies are capable of dealing with siege weapons. Heck, if we can deal with siegetanks with range 11 for the last 5 years, and dealing with swarmhosts with range 20+ for the last 2 years, I'm sure a 9 range lurker in the midgame wouldn't be so bad.
give it a week, obviously some of the strategies people are using right now will get nerfed and we'll see where lurkers stand after that. so far as I could tell, the worst part about going lurker seems to be defending drops
A lot of people before beta have said that lurker just won't work in sc2 and we are seeing it now. I hope with some tweak, it can at the very least be useful in one match up
its like 5 days of beta can we wait for stuff like this, i remember ppl saying swarmhost are aweful/useless in HOTS beta and were are we now. people are really only trying out the most op stuff like cyclones or ravagers. just give it time, I think the viper could be OP but no one uses them so we'll never know also a viper lurker combo with blinding cloud , same with stasis ward maybe not OP but could be very very good with force fields disruptors combos. just let ppl try everything out give it a month even two before we say things like this.
A big reason seems to be the lack of a need for hydras. No hydra den, minimal hydras on field, why go to lurkers?
In ZvT BW, sure, hydras were rare, but there was no other option really. With SC2, the baneling syncs well with the melee upgrades and provides adequate splash until ultra.
Why would anyone use any specialized units other than Ravagers and Ultralisks with the current balance? Lurkers are fine, there are just other options that are OP at the moment.
On April 06 2015 14:42 ETisME wrote: A lot of people before beta have said that lurker just won't work in sc2 and we are seeing it now. I hope with some tweak, it can at the very least be useful in one match up
They are incorrect. I have been using lurkers to great effect in zvp. I don't do it versus mech because I am prety sure it's bad, but versus bio they aren't that bad either. People don't use them because they prefer the easier way to win atm with ravager rushes.
They can definitely be good. I see them weak against Protoss because Disruptors can kill them so easily with little change of moving agaisnt them. Also Ravagers kill them so easily as well.
I would try making them immune or more resistant to Disruptor and Ravager aoe abilities while burrowed.
On April 06 2015 17:48 Kranyum wrote: They can definitely be good. I see them weak against Protoss because Disruptors can kill them so easily with little change of moving agaisnt them. Also Ravagers kill them so easily as well.
I would try making them immune or more resistant to Disruptor and Ravager aoe abilities while burrowed.
Disruptors aren't as good against them if the zerg spreads the lurkers out. If zerg just has them all grouped up and burrowed then yeah disruptor destroyes them. It's like BW templar, if you have lurkers bunched up templar demolish them bad, but spread out not so much.
On April 06 2015 15:16 FabledIntegral wrote: A big reason seems to be the lack of a need for hydras. No hydra den, minimal hydras on field, why go to lurkers?
In ZvT BW, sure, hydras were rare, but there was no other option really. With SC2, the baneling syncs well with the melee upgrades and provides adequate splash until ultra.
I don't how long time it takes to get Lurkers on actual beta, but in the custom LOTV map, it takes wayyy too long time imo. First you need tier 2, then you need Hydra den (40 secs), then morph into Lurker Den (100 secs), then morph Hydras into Lurkers.
I don't see the need for such a long proces here. I much rather prefer that Lurkers could come much faster and function as an alternative to Banelings vs bio or Roaches/Ravager. That would allow for a lot more strategic options rather than Lurkers only being something you can transition into.
If that makes it too strong, you could make its core stats slightly weaker and tweak the upgrade further.
I don't have the beta, but I've been watching streams all week and I do have some thoughts. I think the big issue right now is the speed of teching due to the LOTV economy. It takes almost as much time to get a lurker as it does to just go to hive and get ultra tech. Hydras themselves seem to rarely be part of people's starts (ravegers everywhere), so it just easier to skip the 2 minute + wait and get the hive tech you wanted anyway.
The range upgrade requiring hive just adds to the amount of time you have to wait before you get to actually use the unit. Honestly I don't see why the lurker den has to take so long, or why the range upgrade couldn't be lair tech (Blizzard could even try just making the 9 range standard, why not).
They do seem pretty damn good once people actually get them out, though. I'm not sure if lurker/ling or lurker/roach will be better - lings make harassment easier and don't need gas, but roaches are meatier and use the same attack upgrades (plus everyone is going to get ravagers anyway).
(This is the opinion of someone who hasn't played LotV and watched a few streams)
Lurkers are difficult to transition to in resource cost and time and it seems there are more cost efficient ways of dealing with Bio, Protoss Gateway armies or Roach balls with the Ravager. LotV is at a phase where I feel there is an oversaturation of unique units, some of which overlap in roles which renders certain units cost ineffective or rarely used. Lurkers are a unit I really want to relive in SC2 because they were excellent in BW but I just don't see the appeal or benefit in using them so far.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wqJKooj.jpg)
