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The State of Lurkers

Forum Index > Legacy of the Void
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1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
neoghaleon55
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7435 Posts
April 06 2015 05:07 GMT
#1
[image loading]


Hi everyone,

I was very excited to hear that Lurkers were coming back in LotV when they were announced a few months ago. But ever since the Beta began, people have been avoiding the unit like a plague. We've had several tournaments in the last week with almost no Lurker showings.

ZvT is basically Ling/Bling/Muta into crackling/Ultra Ultra EX plus α.

ZvP seems like a ravager spam fest into mutalisk

and ZvZ seem like ling-bling into Ravaroach wars.

Lurkers are rapidly becoming the carriers of Wings of Liberty.

I'm just wondering what it would take for people to take the Lurkers seriously again. If you guys know any streamer who actually touches the lurker, please let me know.

For starters, I'm wondering if Lurkers came out with the +9 attack for free at the lair would be too much. It would be on lair tech, which is basically the midgame, where armies are capable of dealing with siege weapons. Heck, if we can deal with siegetanks with range 11 for the last 5 years, and dealing with swarmhosts with range 20+ for the last 2 years, I'm sure a 9 range lurker in the midgame wouldn't be so bad.


moo...for DRG
Wildmoon
Profile Joined December 2011
Thailand4189 Posts
April 06 2015 05:22 GMT
#2
I have watched Vibe played Lurkers on his stream and they destroyed bio army.:D
APPSCI
Profile Joined January 2012
United States51 Posts
April 06 2015 05:22 GMT
#3
give it a week, obviously some of the strategies people are using right now will get nerfed and we'll see where lurkers stand after that. so far as I could tell, the worst part about going lurker seems to be defending drops
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12352 Posts
April 06 2015 05:42 GMT
#4
A lot of people before beta have said that lurker just won't work in sc2 and we are seeing it now.
I hope with some tweak, it can at the very least be useful in one match up
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
starslayer
Profile Joined August 2011
United States696 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-06 05:54:56
April 06 2015 05:53 GMT
#5
its like 5 days of beta can we wait for stuff like this, i remember ppl saying swarmhost are aweful/useless in HOTS beta and were are we now. people are really only trying out the most op stuff like cyclones or ravagers. just give it time, I think the viper could be OP but no one uses them so we'll never know also a viper lurker combo with blinding cloud , same with stasis ward maybe not OP but could be very very good with force fields disruptors combos. just let ppl try everything out give it a month even two before we say things like this.
i came here to kickass and chew bubblegum and i'm all out of bubble gum
Pursuit_
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States1330 Posts
April 06 2015 05:53 GMT
#6
The current power of the Ultralisk against Bio makes the lurker obsolete. Terran goes bio, tech to ultras. Terran goes mech, lurkers are bad vs mech.
In Somnis Veritas
Wildmoon
Profile Joined December 2011
Thailand4189 Posts
April 06 2015 06:15 GMT
#7


It seems pretty good in this game.
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
April 06 2015 06:16 GMT
#8
A big reason seems to be the lack of a need for hydras. No hydra den, minimal hydras on field, why go to lurkers?

In ZvT BW, sure, hydras were rare, but there was no other option really. With SC2, the baneling syncs well with the melee upgrades and provides adequate splash until ultra.
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
April 06 2015 06:23 GMT
#9
I can see mass ling style + lurker be a thing in the future.
-Kyo-
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Japan1926 Posts
April 06 2015 06:28 GMT
#10
Uh, lurkers are perhaps too strong right now if anything. Just because people are playing with ravagers does not mean they are bad haha ;o
Anime is cuter than you. Legacy of the Void GM Protoss Gameplay: twitch.tv/kyo7763 youtube.com/user/KyoStarcraft/
TL+ Member
Pontius Pirate
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
United States1557 Posts
April 06 2015 06:41 GMT
#11
Why would anyone use any specialized units other than Ravagers and Ultralisks with the current balance? Lurkers are fine, there are just other options that are OP at the moment.
"I had to close the door so my parents wouldn't judge me." - ZombieGrub during the ShitfaceTradeTV stream
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10668 Posts
April 06 2015 06:43 GMT
#12
I really want to get into LOTV Beta so I can play BW Style Zerg with lurkers.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
April 06 2015 07:55 GMT
#13
On April 06 2015 14:42 ETisME wrote:
A lot of people before beta have said that lurker just won't work in sc2 and we are seeing it now.
I hope with some tweak, it can at the very least be useful in one match up


They are incorrect. I have been using lurkers to great effect in zvp. I don't do it versus mech because I am prety sure it's bad, but versus bio they aren't that bad either. People don't use them because they prefer the easier way to win atm with ravager rushes.
When I think of something else, something will go here
MagnuMizer
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Denmark384 Posts
April 06 2015 08:06 GMT
#14
"Ever since the Beta began"... beta is like 1 week old?

and you are already crying about not seeing your favourite BW unit in every single game? Try and have some patience please..
Kranyum
Profile Joined September 2012
77 Posts
April 06 2015 08:48 GMT
#15
They can definitely be good.
I see them weak against Protoss because Disruptors can kill them so easily with little change of moving agaisnt them.
Also Ravagers kill them so easily as well.

I would try making them immune or more resistant to Disruptor and Ravager aoe abilities while burrowed.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
April 06 2015 08:51 GMT
#16
On April 06 2015 17:48 Kranyum wrote:
They can definitely be good.
I see them weak against Protoss because Disruptors can kill them so easily with little change of moving agaisnt them.
Also Ravagers kill them so easily as well.

I would try making them immune or more resistant to Disruptor and Ravager aoe abilities while burrowed.


Disruptors aren't as good against them if the zerg spreads the lurkers out. If zerg just has them all grouped up and burrowed then yeah disruptor destroyes them. It's like BW templar, if you have lurkers bunched up templar demolish them bad, but spread out not so much.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9366 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-06 08:58:50
April 06 2015 08:55 GMT
#17
On April 06 2015 15:16 FabledIntegral wrote:
A big reason seems to be the lack of a need for hydras. No hydra den, minimal hydras on field, why go to lurkers?

In ZvT BW, sure, hydras were rare, but there was no other option really. With SC2, the baneling syncs well with the melee upgrades and provides adequate splash until ultra.


I don't how long time it takes to get Lurkers on actual beta, but in the custom LOTV map, it takes wayyy too long time imo. First you need tier 2, then you need Hydra den (40 secs), then morph into Lurker Den (100 secs), then morph Hydras into Lurkers.

I don't see the need for such a long proces here. I much rather prefer that Lurkers could come much faster and function as an alternative to Banelings vs bio or Roaches/Ravager. That would allow for a lot more strategic options rather than Lurkers only being something you can transition into.

If that makes it too strong, you could make its core stats slightly weaker and tweak the upgrade further.
AFKPuezo
Profile Joined August 2010
183 Posts
April 06 2015 12:48 GMT
#18
I don't have the beta, but I've been watching streams all week and I do have some thoughts. I think the big issue right now is the speed of teching due to the LOTV economy. It takes almost as much time to get a lurker as it does to just go to hive and get ultra tech. Hydras themselves seem to rarely be part of people's starts (ravegers everywhere), so it just easier to skip the 2 minute + wait and get the hive tech you wanted anyway.

The range upgrade requiring hive just adds to the amount of time you have to wait before you get to actually use the unit. Honestly I don't see why the lurker den has to take so long, or why the range upgrade couldn't be lair tech (Blizzard could even try just making the 9 range standard, why not).

They do seem pretty damn good once people actually get them out, though. I'm not sure if lurker/ling or lurker/roach will be better - lings make harassment easier and don't need gas, but roaches are meatier and use the same attack upgrades (plus everyone is going to get ravagers anyway).

PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32740 Posts
April 06 2015 12:57 GMT
#19
(This is the opinion of someone who hasn't played LotV and watched a few streams)

Lurkers are difficult to transition to in resource cost and time and it seems there are more cost efficient ways of dealing with Bio, Protoss Gateway armies or Roach balls with the Ravager. LotV is at a phase where I feel there is an oversaturation of unique units, some of which overlap in roles which renders certain units cost ineffective or rarely used. Lurkers are a unit I really want to relive in SC2 because they were excellent in BW but I just don't see the appeal or benefit in using them so far.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15913 Posts
April 06 2015 12:58 GMT
#20
why play lurkers when you can just win with ravagers or ultras?
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
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